What would perception be?

Quote from: desco80 on January 10, 2012, 01:06:47 PM

Quote from: Marillac on January 09, 2012, 11:25:55 PM

Quote from: mjmaherjr on January 09, 2012, 08:19:21 PM

Quote from: Marillac on January 09, 2012, 11:13:22 AM

Quote from: IllWill on January 08, 2012, 04:57:54 PM

Quote from: Beach Bum on January 08, 2012, 04:27:20 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 08, 2012, 03:22:14 PM

If St. John's would have played a cupcake schedule instead of one of the nation's toughest schedules?

or even if they beat Northeastern, Detroit, and one of the games in Holiday Festival? Would they be ranked?

Take it a step further in the "what if" scenario.....
* SJ should have beaten the above except for the lack of a talented point guard. Remember Nurideen's 2 missed FTs that would have won the A&M game?
* were it not for Phil Greene's horrific games against Uconn and Louisville where he went 0-9, SJ could have beaten both of those BE games!
In the above fantasy scenario these Freshmen would now be 13-2!!!!!!!! All this without their head coach!
Funny, but the most important recruit now is a transfer in Jamal Branch at the PG slot!

and if st. john's lost to texan pan-am, cincy and those other two cupcakes that we narrowly escape in the beginning of the year we'd be 4-11.

these "what ifs" are dumb cause it works both ways. 

What is your deal?  You are so negative it is ridiculous.  You actually seem like you know what you are saying and you are a pretty funny poster when you are not on a ledge. 

How can you not see how bright the future is for this team?  Harrison is a STUD.  Harkless is a STUD.  Greene will be every bit as good as Ricky Moore was for Uconn for that title run.  Pointer and Garrett are freaks of nature and defensive standouts with NBA potential.  GG will hold down the center spot for a year until Lavin can add some firepower.  We are about to sign a top 50 pure point guard who is known as a shutdown defender...a kid that has college experience and will have a year of practice with our guys...a kid that has already played a big game at MSG for a top 25 team.

Grab one of Sampson/Obepka/Gathers, a shooter, and a big and we are going to be INSANE next season.  Add two or all three of those bigs and it will get silly around here real fast. 

The  the lack of size and depth has forced Dunlap to put a stable full of greyhounds in a NYC apartment.  Pointer and Greene must be listening to to Springstein on repeat, because they were born to run!

Knowing that Marillac isn't a homer who always thinks things are rosy and knowing how negative he was when Norm was I have to admit I really enjoy reading his optimistic posts now

MJ, I really think this core has what it takes.   I could post for pages, but I will keep it short and sweet...anyone posting negatively will look downright FOOLISH.  This core will see a Final Four.  They are missing a few pieces no doubt, but Lavin is one of the best in the business at getting players and we only need a few more to complete the picture.

This is the second post this week that predicts a Final Four in the near future... I sense that we're in good shape the next two years, but did I miss something?   Did we sign two All Americans recently?    Do we have a Harrison Barnes caliber player returning for his sophomore season?  Better yet... will we have a Kemba type player returning for his senior year?    Because that's what makes for Final Four teams.

I'm not inclined to be a pessimist, and while I haven't been actively posting for very long, I've been reading these boards for several years; so it's a pleasure that the topic dujour might be whether this team has a F4 in their future, as opposed to whether Sean Evans deserves 30 minutes a night or if he should be benched the next time he starts a dribble move.   It's a good time to be a St Johns fan!

But guys, we are a long ways off from being a final four caliber team. In my opinion at least.  I think you're counting too much on players developing, and incoming freshmen getting up to speed at a ridiculous pace.  We have some glaring deficiencies when it comes to scoring efficiently and obviously against size.   I have all the faith in the world that Lav will bring in solid players in 2012, but it's not like the top 20 teams don't reload as well.  There's a good chance we might not make a NIT this season.  And that's not a knock on our team, they're all freshmen and playing under some difficult circumstances.  But as fans we can't realistically expect to go 2011: No-NIT, 2012 Sweet 16, 2013 Final Four.   That's a pretty big stretch even for the most optimistic fans.

I hope I'm wrong, and I'm not discounting a big tournament run further down the road, because it sounds like we're involved with some very heavy talent in the 2013 and 2014 classes.  But let's remember, a sweet 16 appearance by itself would make this core far and away the best St Johns team in over a decade. 

Like you say Marillac, I hope I do look foolish - because I want to see Moe, D'angelo, Amir, and Dom see a Final Four before they leave SJU.   And if that day comes I'll gladly buy the drinks and admit I was wrong.   But I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves.

Desco, who did Butler have last year?  Shelvin Mack was their only NBA draft pick and he was a second rounder.  No we don't have a Harrison Barnes returning as a soph, but we might have a Maurice Harkless returning as a junior...I'd rather have Harkless as a junior.  We will have an RSCI top 60 player starting at every position.  Butler didn't even have one.  We'll have an RSCI top 75 player backing up every position with the exception of Greene who was gross underrated.

Are you telling me that VCU had more talent on their roster than this St. John's team?  C'mon.  Not only do we have the athletic ability and physical talent, we have smart, savvy kids like Harkless and Harrison.  We have kids that D-up and get after it on that end.  We just need a few big boys and a dead-eye shooter and we are a national championship contender in 2014 and 2015. 

This group of freshman is carrying St. John's through battles and even picking up some wins.  There are no upperclassman to lean on.  What other high-major in the country has this type of talent, shouldering this type of load, learning these types of lessons to carry with them into the future, that will actually be around 3-4 years?  Exactly.

I can't explain Butler lol   You've got me there, but don't forget they came in to last year's tourny with Final Four experience from the year before.   And VCU, well that's why the call it March Madness right? 

But for every Butler or VCU there have been immensely talented teams like Kansas, Ohio State and Florida, last year, and Kentucky and Syracuse two years ago who should have been final four teams but fell short.   

The big unknowns are when guys decide to leave, and how much all this playing time can help the kids develop.  Like you said, it's relatively unprecedented for a freshmen to play the minutes a D'angelo is getting this year.  Any other time it's happened the kid has been a one and done.  So it'll be interesting to see how much it benefits our guys a year, two, or three from now.

Again, it will be an awesome day if you're proven right on this one.  And in the big picture, you know it's a new day in SJU basketball when the debates are over future sweet sixteen appearances versus final fours!               

The way the tournament is structured a well coached team of above average basketball players always has a chance, a slim chance but a chance just the same.  A well coached team of top 25 recruits has a good chance.  Once you get to the Sweet 16 it's really about match-ups, individual performances, peaking at the right time and a little luck plus staying healthy.  It's easy to get into the conversation and its fun to have but once in the tourney its "Any Given Day in March", toss the balls out and see what happens.  Plenty of teams that should have reached the final four haven't, plenty that shouldn't have did.  Let's see STJ have a great season before any says they EXPECT the team to get to the FF or even Elite8.  But hoping and seeing the possibility is a fans game and that's what's being practiced here.

PS I think it's not unrealistic that we talk as if we EXPECT the team to make the dance and some noise next year and the years to come and that's pretty great  . . . isn't it?

Quote from: desco80 on January 10, 2012, 01:06:47 PM

Quote from: Marillac on January 09, 2012, 11:25:55 PM

Quote from: mjmaherjr on January 09, 2012, 08:19:21 PM

Quote from: Marillac on January 09, 2012, 11:13:22 AM

Quote from: IllWill on January 08, 2012, 04:57:54 PM

Quote from: Beach Bum on January 08, 2012, 04:27:20 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 08, 2012, 03:22:14 PM

If St. John's would have played a cupcake schedule instead of one of the nation's toughest schedules?

or even if they beat Northeastern, Detroit, and one of the games in Holiday Festival? Would they be ranked?

Take it a step further in the "what if" scenario.....
* SJ should have beaten the above except for the lack of a talented point guard. Remember Nurideen's 2 missed FTs that would have won the A&M game?
* were it not for Phil Greene's horrific games against Uconn and Louisville where he went 0-9, SJ could have beaten both of those BE games!
In the above fantasy scenario these Freshmen would now be 13-2!!!!!!!! All this without their head coach!
Funny, but the most important recruit now is a transfer in Jamal Branch at the PG slot!

and if st. john's lost to texan pan-am, cincy and those other two cupcakes that we narrowly escape in the beginning of the year we'd be 4-11.

these "what ifs" are dumb cause it works both ways. 

What is your deal?  You are so negative it is ridiculous.  You actually seem like you know what you are saying and you are a pretty funny poster when you are not on a ledge. 

How can you not see how bright the future is for this team?  Harrison is a STUD.  Harkless is a STUD.  Greene will be every bit as good as Ricky Moore was for Uconn for that title run.  Pointer and Garrett are freaks of nature and defensive standouts with NBA potential.  GG will hold down the center spot for a year until Lavin can add some firepower.  We are about to sign a top 50 pure point guard who is known as a shutdown defender...a kid that has college experience and will have a year of practice with our guys...a kid that has already played a big game at MSG for a top 25 team.

Grab one of Sampson/Obepka/Gathers, a shooter, and a big and we are going to be INSANE next season.  Add two or all three of those bigs and it will get silly around here real fast. 

The  the lack of size and depth has forced Dunlap to put a stable full of greyhounds in a NYC apartment.  Pointer and Greene must be listening to to Springstein on repeat, because they were born to run!

Knowing that Marillac isn't a homer who always thinks things are rosy and knowing how negative he was when Norm was I have to admit I really enjoy reading his optimistic posts now

MJ, I really think this core has what it takes.   I could post for pages, but I will keep it short and sweet...anyone posting negatively will look downright FOOLISH.  This core will see a Final Four.  They are missing a few pieces no doubt, but Lavin is one of the best in the business at getting players and we only need a few more to complete the picture.

This is the second post this week that predicts a Final Four in the near future... I sense that we're in good shape the next two years, but did I miss something?   Did we sign two All Americans recently?    Do we have a Harrison Barnes caliber player returning for his sophomore season?  Better yet... will we have a Kemba type player returning for his senior year?    Because that's what makes for Final Four teams.

I'm not inclined to be a pessimist, and while I haven't been actively posting for very long, I've been reading these boards for several years; so it's a pleasure that the topic dujour might be whether this team has a F4 in their future, as opposed to whether Sean Evans deserves 30 minutes a night or if he should be benched the next time he starts a dribble move.   It's a good time to be a St Johns fan!

But guys, we are a long ways off from being a final four caliber team. In my opinion at least.  I think you're counting too much on players developing, and incoming freshmen getting up to speed at a ridiculous pace.  We have some glaring deficiencies when it comes to scoring efficiently and obviously against size.   I have all the faith in the world that Lav will bring in solid players in 2012, but it's not like the top 20 teams don't reload as well.  There's a good chance we might not make a NIT this season.  And that's not a knock on our team, they're all freshmen and playing under some difficult circumstances.  But as fans we can't realistically expect to go 2011: No-NIT, 2012 Sweet 16, 2013 Final Four.   That's a pretty big stretch even for the most optimistic fans.

I hope I'm wrong, and I'm not discounting a big tournament run further down the road, because it sounds like we're involved with some very heavy talent in the 2013 and 2014 classes.  But let's remember, a sweet 16 appearance by itself would make this core far and away the best St Johns team in over a decade. 

Like you say Marillac, I hope I do look foolish - because I want to see Moe, D'angelo, Amir, and Dom see a Final Four before they leave SJU.   And if that day comes I'll gladly buy the drinks and admit I was wrong.   But I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves.

Just look at the rankings of our recruits. We are recruiting top 100's left and right. When you do that, they have a great chance of developing into good players. Moe and D'Angelo will be superstars in the BE (if they're not already). Dom and Amir are both showing promise. Sure, we don't look great now, but we have no PG, no size, and only go 7 deep. When Lavin fills out the roster, with Branch, and hopefully one or both of Sampson/Gathers, how many teams could say they have more top 100 talent than us? Maybe the Duke's, UNC's, and Kentucky's of the world, but after that, not many teams can say they can recruit better than us. Accompany the talent with our great coaching staff, which is proven to produce NBA talent, and I don't think it's far-fetched to predict a final four in the future.

Many posters are looking at this year and thinking this is our team for the next 2 years and it's simply not true. Look at the big picture, we are in good hands with Lavin.

   Counting Branch we have 5 top 100 recruits and Greene was knocking at the door When was the last team we had that many top recruits and Lavin is far from done this year.

Last time we had 5 top 100 recruits: I think 2001. Cook, Diakite, Shaw, Cuffe, Glover & Jessie.

And in the big picture, you know it's a new day in SJU basketball when the debates are over future sweet sixteen appearances versus final fours!             

Just wait till our next loss and the pendulum will once again swing predictably back to gloom and doom and talk of a program at the intersection of meltdown and dissaray. 
 

If St. John's would have played a cupcake schedule instead of one of the nation's toughest schedules?

I disagree about one of the nation´s toughest schedules. Yes, we have played at Kentucky, but Arizona and Texas A&M are not so good. And the record of the rest of opponents is:

William & Mary (3-13).
Lehigh (12-5).
UMBC (2-13).
St. Francis (6-9).
Northeastern (6-8).
Detroit (8-10).
Fordham (7-8).
Texas Pan American (5-14).

Quote from: Dave on January 08, 2012, 03:22:14 PM

If St. John's would have played a cupcake schedule instead of one of the nation's toughest schedules?

I disagree about one of the nation´s toughest schedules. Yes, we have played at Kentucky, but Arizona and Texas A&M are not so good. And the record of the rest of opponents is:

William & Mary (3-13).
Lehigh (12-5).
UMBC (2-13).
St. Francis (6-9).
Northeastern (6-8).
Detroit (8-10).
Fordham (7-8).
Texas Pan American (5-14).

So, by this logic, i.e., focusing only on the non-ranked and less talented teams on our schedule, you reason that SJU doesn't have a tough schedule this year?     

Strength of schedule is at 108 as per rpi

Strength of schedule is at 108 as per rpi

Right, and that number will fluctuate all season long, but the point is, playing in the BE with non-conference games against Duke, Kentucky and UCLA, among others, is not a weak schedule, IMO.

Every team plays cup cakes. What we didn't have very many of this year is the mid major game. I count one. Detroit.

Every team plays cup cakes. What we didn't have very many of this year is the mid major game. I count one. Detroit.

Poison, what about Lehigh, W&M and Northeastern?

We're also getting a "break" in terms of UCLA being very down this year, otherwise that's another potential top 10 team that we would have to play in the middle of conference play. 

Our schedule is fine in my eyes.  It was challenging and got us a lot of exposure, and will continue to.   The early season tournament was in essence a series of home games. 

Plus, from a purely selfish standpoint I enjoy having tickets to home games against UCLA, Duke last year, and Kentucky next season.   

Quote from: Poison on January 11, 2012, 09:17:55 AM

Every team plays cup cakes. What we didn't have very many of this year is the mid major game. I count one. Detroit.

Poison, what about Lehigh, W&M and Northeastern?

Northeastern is a low major, that's an embarrassing loss anyway you look at it.  Lehigh is a solid club that can surprise people, they blew out fordham and played Michigan State close.   

In total though I agree with Poison's comment, we scheduled big conference teams out of conference, and seemingly avoided the mid majors other than Detroit.  And I think that was probably for the best.   A loss to Kentucky or Duke gets you exposure and can be written off as a loss to potential final four team.... a loss to Western Kentucky, Murray State, St Bonnie, or Creighton; looks worse in recruits/fans eyes.  Even if they're a better team than a UCLA or Texas AM this year it still looks worse on paper.

Quote from: Poison on January 11, 2012, 09:17:55 AM

Every team plays cup cakes. What we didn't have very many of this year is the mid major game. I count one. Detroit.

Poison, what about Lehigh, W&M and Northeastern?

Those are not mid majors in my opinion. In my opinion, a mid major plays in a middle of the pack conference, but usually performs like a major conference team. Hence mid-major.
St.Mary's, Gonzaga, Temple, BYU, Southern Illinois, Wichita State, Detroit, VCU, George Mason and Creighton to name a few fit that bill for me.

I like the team Lehigh has this year, and I think they have a very good chance of winning their conference tournament, but they are a small school from a small conference that hasn't been a 20-25 game winner on average, and they haven't upset high major teams annually like Temple and St.Joe's have done.

If Lehigh is a mid major, then who isn't a mid major? Again, this is a matter of opinion. I'm sure others will have one, too.

Quote from: DFF6 on January 11, 2012, 09:31:40 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 11, 2012, 09:17:55 AM

Every team plays cup cakes. What we didn't have very many of this year is the mid major game. I count one. Detroit.

Poison, what about Lehigh, W&M and Northeastern?

Those are not mid majors in my opinion. In my opinion, a mid major plays in a middle of the pack conference, but usually performs like a major conference team. Hence mid-major.
St.Mary's, Gonzaga, Temple, BYU, Southern Illinois, Wichita State, Detroit, VCU, George Mason and Creighton to name a few fit that bill for me.

I like the team Lehigh has this year, and I think they have a very good chance of winning their conference tournament, but they are a small school from a small conference that hasn't been a 20-25 game winner on average, and they haven't upset high major teams annually like Temple and St.Joe's have done.

If Lehigh is a mid major, then who isn't a mid major? Again, this is a matter of opinion. I'm sure others will have one, too.

Understood.  I was basing my opinion of what constitutes a mid-major team by considering only the conferences from which commonly accepted mid-major schools play (e.g., Big Sky, Colonial, Missouri Valley, etc.).
   

We're also getting a "break" in terms of UCLA being very down this year, otherwise that's another potential top 10 team that we would have to play in the middle of conference play. 

Our schedule is fine in my eyes.  It was challenging and got us a lot of exposure, and will continue to.   The early season tournament was in essence a series of home games. 

Plus, from a purely selfish standpoint I enjoy having tickets to home games against UCLA, Duke last year, and Kentucky next season.   

Is Kentucky on the schedule for next season?  I don't think so.  That game was part of the SEC/BE challenge.  Return games aren't guaranteed.  It could happen but it will be at the whim of ESPN and the conference leadership.

Quote from: Poison on January 11, 2012, 09:46:16 AM

Quote from: DFF6 on January 11, 2012, 09:31:40 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 11, 2012, 09:17:55 AM

Every team plays cup cakes. What we didn't have very many of this year is the mid major game. I count one. Detroit.

Poison, what about Lehigh, W&M and Northeastern?

Those are not mid majors in my opinion. In my opinion, a mid major plays in a middle of the pack conference, but usually performs like a major conference team. Hence mid-major.
St.Mary's, Gonzaga, Temple, BYU, Southern Illinois, Wichita State, Detroit, VCU, George Mason and Creighton to name a few fit that bill for me.

I like the team Lehigh has this year, and I think they have a very good chance of winning their conference tournament, but they are a small school from a small conference that hasn't been a 20-25 game winner on average, and they haven't upset high major teams annually like Temple and St.Joe's have done.

If Lehigh is a mid major, then who isn't a mid major? Again, this is a matter of opinion. I'm sure others will have one, too.

Understood.  I was basing my opinion of what constitutes a mid-major team by considering only the conferences from which commonly accepted mid-major schools play (e.g., Big Sky, Colonial, Missouri Valley, etc.).
   

You would be right, unless you make up your own definition of mid-major like Poison did.  It's not really a matter of opinion.  William & Mary is an awful team and Northeastern not too good but they're in a mid major conference so they're a mid major.  CAA will very often put multiple teams in the dance.  That's where the dividing line between mid major and low major lies.  Not sure I'd say the same for Lehigh.  Low major one bid conference even if a team like Lehigh or Bucknell can surprise once a decade in March.

Quote from: desco80 on January 11, 2012, 09:36:11 AM

We're also getting a "break" in terms of UCLA being very down this year, otherwise that's another potential top 10 team that we would have to play in the middle of conference play. 

Our schedule is fine in my eyes.  It was challenging and got us a lot of exposure, and will continue to.   The early season tournament was in essence a series of home games. 

Plus, from a purely selfish standpoint I enjoy having tickets to home games against UCLA, Duke last year, and Kentucky next season.   

Is Kentucky on the schedule for next season?  I don't think so.  That game was part of the SEC/BE challenge.  Return games aren't guaranteed.  It could happen but it will be at the whim of ESPN and the conference leadership.

We should get a home game though and it is doubtful that they schedule Kentucky for us twice.

It would be great to get a home and home with Kentucky every year as I am not sure the UCLA match up with continue past this season.

Quote from: DFF6 on January 11, 2012, 09:53:48 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 11, 2012, 09:46:16 AM

Quote from: DFF6 on January 11, 2012, 09:31:40 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 11, 2012, 09:17:55 AM

Every team plays cup cakes. What we didn't have very many of this year is the mid major game. I count one. Detroit.

Poison, what about Lehigh, W&M and Northeastern?

Those are not mid majors in my opinion. In my opinion, a mid major plays in a middle of the pack conference, but usually performs like a major conference team. Hence mid-major.
St.Mary's, Gonzaga, Temple, BYU, Southern Illinois, Wichita State, Detroit, VCU, George Mason and Creighton to name a few fit that bill for me.

I like the team Lehigh has this year, and I think they have a very good chance of winning their conference tournament, but they are a small school from a small conference that hasn't been a 20-25 game winner on average, and they haven't upset high major teams annually like Temple and St.Joe's have done.

If Lehigh is a mid major, then who isn't a mid major? Again, this is a matter of opinion. I'm sure others will have one, too.

Understood.  I was basing my opinion of what constitutes a mid-major team by considering only the conferences from which commonly accepted mid-major schools play (e.g., Big Sky, Colonial, Missouri Valley, etc.).
   

You would be right, unless you make up your own definition of mid-major like Poison did.  It's not really a matter of opinion.  William & Mary is an awful team and Northeastern not too good but they're in a mid major conference so they're a mid major.  CAA will very often put multiple teams in the dance.  That's where the dividing line between mid major and low major lies.  Not sure I'd say the same for Lehigh.  Low major one bid conference even if a team like Lehigh or Bucknell can surprise once a decade in March.

I cannot take credit for this POV. It's Billy Packer's, and I happen to agree with it. I know a lot of people that don't.

From your take, my question how do you determine who a low major is? That's a term that I'm not as familiar with. If you play in the Northeast Conference, what is major about that? To me, that is the clearest definition of a cup cake. As far as William & Mary go, I personally can't give them mid major status, because there is nothing major about anything they've ever done as far as I know. They need to earn that label, and they have not. I think Northeastern was a mid major when Reggie Lewis played there.

I don't think it's fair to automatically dub a team a mid major or low major just because they play in a certain conference. Cincinnati played in conference USA along with several other programs that were never considered high major programs, but Cincinnati, no matter how you slice it, is not an historic program, but a major one as well.

Some fans here would take a win over Fordham, and give us credit for beating a A10 team. (Technically we did) But is Fordham a mid major? When we beat them 2 years ago at Alumni Hall,
I think they would have required significant improvement just to be considered a D1 team. But if you follow a system where a conference awards credit, then they are. To me, that win was less impressive than any other win SJU had that season.

Quote from: yankcranker on January 11, 2012, 12:10:01 PM

Quote from: DFF6 on January 11, 2012, 09:53:48 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 11, 2012, 09:46:16 AM

Quote from: DFF6 on January 11, 2012, 09:31:40 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 11, 2012, 09:17:55 AM

Every team plays cup cakes. What we didn't have very many of this year is the mid major game. I count one. Detroit.

Poison, what about Lehigh, W&M and Northeastern?

Those are not mid majors in my opinion. In my opinion, a mid major plays in a middle of the pack conference, but usually performs like a major conference team. Hence mid-major.
St.Mary's, Gonzaga, Temple, BYU, Southern Illinois, Wichita State, Detroit, VCU, George Mason and Creighton to name a few fit that bill for me.

I like the team Lehigh has this year, and I think they have a very good chance of winning their conference tournament, but they are a small school from a small conference that hasn't been a 20-25 game winner on average, and they haven't upset high major teams annually like Temple and St.Joe's have done.

If Lehigh is a mid major, then who isn't a mid major? Again, this is a matter of opinion. I'm sure others will have one, too.

Understood.  I was basing my opinion of what constitutes a mid-major team by considering only the conferences from which commonly accepted mid-major schools play (e.g., Big Sky, Colonial, Missouri Valley, etc.).
   

You would be right, unless you make up your own definition of mid-major like Poison did.  It's not really a matter of opinion.  William & Mary is an awful team and Northeastern not too good but they're in a mid major conference so they're a mid major.  CAA will very often put multiple teams in the dance.  That's where the dividing line between mid major and low major lies.  Not sure I'd say the same for Lehigh.  Low major one bid conference even if a team like Lehigh or Bucknell can surprise once a decade in March.

I cannot take credit for this POV. It's Billy Packer's, and I happen to agree with it. I know a lot of people that don't.

From your take, my question how do you determine who a low major is? That's a term that I'm not as familiar with. If you play in the Northeast Conference, what is major about that? To me, that is the clearest definition of a cup cake. As far as William & Mary go, I personally can't give them mid major status, because there is nothing major about anything they've ever done as far as I know. They need to earn that label, and they have not. I think Northeastern was a mid major when Reggie Lewis played there.

I don't think it's fair to automatically dub a team a mid major or low major just because they play in a certain conference. Cincinnati played in conference USA along with several other programs that were never considered high major programs, but Cincinnati, no matter how you slice it, is not an historic program, but a major one as well.

Some fans here would take a win over Fordham, and give us credit for beating a A10 team. (Technically we did) But is Fordham a mid major? When we beat them 2 years ago at Alumni Hall,
I think they would have required significant improvement just to be considered a D1 team. But if you follow a system where a conference awards credit, then they are. To me, that win was less impressive than any other win SJU had that season.

I have referred to the website below when confused about whether a school fell under the "mid major" category. 

http://www.midmajortop25.com/

If you go to the bottom of the page, there's a key that tells you what conferences are deemed "mid major" conferences for polling the top 25 mid major schools.