If St. John's would have played a cupcake schedule instead of one of the nation's toughest schedules?
or even if they beat Northeastern, Detroit, and one of the games in Holiday Festival? Would they be ranked?
Take it a step further in the "what if" scenario.....
* SJ should have beaten the above except for the lack of a talented point guard. Remember Nurideen's 2 missed FTs that would have won the A&M game?
* were it not for Phil Greene's horrific games against Uconn and Louisville where he went 0-9, SJ could have beaten both of those BE games!
In the above fantasy scenario these Freshmen would now be 13-2!!!!!!!! All this without their head coach!
Funny, but the most important recruit now is a transfer in Jamal Branch at the PG slot!
and if st. john's lost to texan pan-am, cincy and those other two cupcakes that we narrowly escape in the beginning of the year we'd be 4-11.
these "what ifs" are dumb cause it works both ways.
What is your deal? You are so negative it is ridiculous. You actually seem like you know what you are saying and you are a pretty funny poster when you are not on a ledge.
How can you not see how bright the future is for this team? Harrison is a STUD. Harkless is a STUD. Greene will be every bit as good as Ricky Moore was for Uconn for that title run. Pointer and Garrett are freaks of nature and defensive standouts with NBA potential. GG will hold down the center spot for a year until Lavin can add some firepower. We are about to sign a top 50 pure point guard who is known as a shutdown defender...a kid that has college experience and will have a year of practice with our guys...a kid that has already played a big game at MSG for a top 25 team.
Grab one of Sampson/Obepka/Gathers, a shooter, and a big and we are going to be INSANE next season. Add two or all three of those bigs and it will get silly around here real fast.
The the lack of size and depth has forced Dunlap to put a stable full of greyhounds in a NYC apartment. Pointer and Greene must be listening to to Springstein on repeat, because they were born to run!
Knowing that Marillac isn't a homer who always thinks things are rosy and knowing how negative he was when Norm was I have to admit I really enjoy reading his optimistic posts now
MJ, I really think this core has what it takes. I could post for pages, but I will keep it short and sweet...anyone posting negatively will look downright FOOLISH. This core will see a Final Four. They are missing a few pieces no doubt, but Lavin is one of the best in the business at getting players and we only need a few more to complete the picture.
This is the second post this week that predicts a Final Four in the near future... I sense that we're in good shape the next two years, but did I miss something? Did we sign two All Americans recently? Do we have a Harrison Barnes caliber player returning for his sophomore season? Better yet... will we have a Kemba type player returning for his senior year? Because that's what makes for Final Four teams.
I'm not inclined to be a pessimist, and while I haven't been actively posting for very long, I've been reading these boards for several years; so it's a pleasure that the topic dujour might be whether this team has a F4 in their future, as opposed to whether Sean Evans deserves 30 minutes a night or if he should be benched the next time he starts a dribble move. It's a good time to be a St Johns fan!
But guys, we are a long ways off from being a final four caliber team. In my opinion at least. I think you're counting too much on players developing, and incoming freshmen getting up to speed at a ridiculous pace. We have some glaring deficiencies when it comes to scoring efficiently and obviously against size. I have all the faith in the world that Lav will bring in solid players in 2012, but it's not like the top 20 teams don't reload as well. There's a good chance we might not make a NIT this season. And that's not a knock on our team, they're all freshmen and playing under some difficult circumstances. But as fans we can't realistically expect to go 2011: No-NIT, 2012 Sweet 16, 2013 Final Four. That's a pretty big stretch even for the most optimistic fans.
I hope I'm wrong, and I'm not discounting a big tournament run further down the road, because it sounds like we're involved with some very heavy talent in the 2013 and 2014 classes. But let's remember, a sweet 16 appearance by itself would make this core far and away the best St Johns team in over a decade.
Like you say Marillac, I hope I do look foolish - because I want to see Moe, D'angelo, Amir, and Dom see a Final Four before they leave SJU. And if that day comes I'll gladly buy the drinks and admit I was wrong. But I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves.
Just look at the rankings of our recruits. We are recruiting top 100's left and right. When you do that, they have a great chance of developing into good players. Moe and D'Angelo will be superstars in the BE (if they're not already). Dom and Amir are both showing promise. Sure, we don't look great now, but we have no PG, no size, and only go 7 deep. When Lavin fills out the roster, with Branch, and hopefully one or both of Sampson/Gathers, how many teams could say they have more top 100 talent than us? Maybe the Duke's, UNC's, and Kentucky's of the world, but after that, not many teams can say they can recruit better than us. Accompany the talent with our great coaching staff, which is proven to produce NBA talent, and I don't think it's far-fetched to predict a final four in the future.
Many posters are looking at this year and thinking this is our team for the next 2 years and it's simply not true. Look at the big picture, we are in good hands with Lavin.
That's the thing, I have realistic expectations for this season, I fully expect the team to improve, and I know the team will be adding pieces. How much of a knock against the coach and team am I really making by saying they have a great chance to be one of the best SJU teams in memory, just probably not Final Four caliber? If that's an insult then I think we're being a little over protective.
I just think it takes an awful lot to hang another Final Four banner.
And yes, Moe is awesome. And to the other poster's point, arguably better than Barnes was at this point last season. But look at the talent Barnes has around him this season, will Moe have a Henson Zeller and Marshall aside him next year or his junior season if he returns for it? Unlikely. D'angelo, Dom, and Sampson/Gathers will be very good, but Marshall is the best point guard in the country right now, and Henson is a lottery pick at PF. That's the kind of freakish talent you need to stockpile to confidently say "that's probably a Final Four team".
Again, the future is bright, but Final Four teams are a special entity. Let's not go tossing those predictions around so carelessly. It's hard to predict we'll have a cinderella run ala a VCU, and aside from those teams like that who are catching lightening in a bottle, Final Fours in recent years are mostly littered with those "other" teams, the Kentuckys, North Carolinas, Dukes, Michigan States, and UCONNs. There's a reason they make a lot of appearances. They routinely have the superior talent. I think we're getting there, but it's hard to predict a Final Four in our immediate future.
And don't kid yourself, those aren't the only teams bringing in recruits as talented or more so than ours. Look at Indiana, Texas, Florida, and especially what Arizona has done lately... top 100 recruit after another.