Phil Greene

Quote from: Celtics11 on January 27, 2012, 12:07:25 AM

Tremendous all around game by Phil vs W Virginia. He D Lo and Branch will make a great 3 g rotation next yr and if we get the bigs we hope we are getting Dom and Amir can ply some g to if we want to go big. Also can go to a 3 g line up, Great versatility in our future.

I agree with you Celts about Phil being part of our 3 guard rotation next yr.   The fact that him and D'angelo will be fresher, that alone is a huge bonus.  But at the risk of going a little off topic..I think we're all overstating the "bigs" we're recruiting for next year.   I don't mean we're overrating their talent, just their size.   Go big?   None of Obekpa, Gathers, or Shepard are bigger than Gift. 
According to ESPN:
R. Gathers     6'7  240
C. Obekpa     6'8  225
W. Shepard   6'8  205
J. Sampson    6'8  200

Even if things fall perfect for us and we get Gathers back and can fight off UCONN for Obekpa ... we're still playing another season without one player over 6'8!   

Re: Size - there doesn't seem to be much out there.   Scout just posted their revised top 100 for 2013.   There are only 2 players over 6'9 on the list, and NONE over 6'10.

Are kids getting smaller?   It's not like hoops is losing potential bigs to some other sport!

20 yeara ago, a listing of the to recruits entering college would have included Tim Duncan, Keith Van Horne, Adonal Foyle, Rasheed Wallace, Avondre Jones, Darnell Robinson, Rashard Griffith, Joey Beard, Tony Battie, Scott Pollard, Serge Zweiker, Mark Blount - all 6'10 of taller.

30 years ago, a listing of top recruits entiering college would have included  Patrick Ewing, Stuart Gray,  Brad Wright, Benoit Benjamin, Jon Koncak, Joe Klein, Charles Oakley, Blair Rasumssen, Bill Wennington, Uwe Blab, Mike Smrek, Nick Vanos, Manute Bol, Mark Acres, Greg Dreiling - all 6'10 or better

35 years ago, the list would have had  Ralph Sampson, Thurl Bailey, Steve Stipanovich, Russell Cross, Randy Breuer, Greg Kite, Roy Hinson, Granville Waiters,  Tim Andre, Les Craft....

40 years ago,  its Kent Benson, Jack Sikma, Tree Rollins, Tom LaGarde, Jeff Wilkins, Bob Elliott, James Edwards, Lewis Brown, Ralph Drollinger...

What the heck is going on?

Epitome was Paul Silas, both at Creighton and as a pro.  Cowens / Silas were undersized every night and both wear two championship rings.

Epitome was Wes Unseld, at 6'6 1/2 with a league MVP, League Rookie of the year, a Championship ring, and a place in the Hall of Fame.

Quote from: desco80 on January 27, 2012, 11:54:04 AM

Quote from: Celtics11 on January 27, 2012, 12:07:25 AM

Tremendous all around game by Phil vs W Virginia. He D Lo and Branch will make a great 3 g rotation next yr and if we get the bigs we hope we are getting Dom and Amir can ply some g to if we want to go big. Also can go to a 3 g line up, Great versatility in our future.

I agree with you Celts about Phil being part of our 3 guard rotation next yr.   The fact that him and D'angelo will be fresher, that alone is a huge bonus.  But at the risk of going a little off topic..I think we're all overstating the "bigs" we're recruiting for next year.   I don't mean we're overrating their talent, just their size.   Go big?   None of Obekpa, Gathers, or Shepard are bigger than Gift. 
According to ESPN:
R. Gathers     6'7  240
C. Obekpa     6'8  225
W. Shepard   6'8  205
J. Sampson    6'8  200

Even if things fall perfect for us and we get Gathers back and can fight off UCONN for Obekpa ... we're still playing another season without one player over 6'8!   

Re: Size - there doesn't seem to be much out there.   Scout just posted their revised top 100 for 2013.   There are only 2 players over 6'9 on the list, and NONE over 6'10.

I just checked Rivals top 100 for 2012 and counted 12 kids at 6'10 or taller (and there were at least a dozen 6'9 kids too).  Maybe the kids for 2013 aren't done growing?

Quote from: desco80 on January 27, 2012, 11:54:04 AM

Quote from: Celtics11 on January 27, 2012, 12:07:25 AM

Tremendous all around game by Phil vs W Virginia. He D Lo and Branch will make a great 3 g rotation next yr and if we get the bigs we hope we are getting Dom and Amir can ply some g to if we want to go big. Also can go to a 3 g line up, Great versatility in our future.

I agree with you Celts about Phil being part of our 3 guard rotation next yr.   The fact that him and D'angelo will be fresher, that alone is a huge bonus.  But at the risk of going a little off topic..I think we're all overstating the "bigs" we're recruiting for next year.   I don't mean we're overrating their talent, just their size.   Go big?   None of Obekpa, Gathers, or Shepard are bigger than Gift. 
According to ESPN:
R. Gathers     6'7  240
C. Obekpa     6'8  225
W. Shepard   6'8  205
J. Sampson    6'8  200

Even if things fall perfect for us and we get Gathers back and can fight off UCONN for Obekpa ... we're still playing another season without one player over 6'8!   

Re: Size - there doesn't seem to be much out there.   Scout just posted their revised top 100 for 2013.   There are only 2 players over 6'9 on the list, and NONE over 6'10.

Are kids getting smaller?   It's not like hoops is losing potential bigs to some other sport!

20 yeara ago, a listing of the to recruits entering college would have included Tim Duncan, Keith Van Horne, Adonal Foyle, Rasheed Wallace, Avondre Jones, Darnell Robinson, Rashard Griffith, Joey Beard, Tony Battie, Scott Pollard, Serge Zweiker, Mark Blount - all 6'10 of taller.

30 years ago, a listing of top recruits entiering college would have included  Patrick Ewing, Stuart Gray,  Brad Wright, Benoit Benjamin, Jon Koncak, Joe Klein, Charles Oakley, Blair Rasumssen, Bill Wennington, Uwe Blab, Mike Smrek, Nick Vanos, Manute Bol, Mark Acres, Greg Dreiling - all 6'10 or better

35 years ago, the list would have had  Ralph Sampson, Thurl Bailey, Steve Stipanovich, Russell Cross, Randy Breuer, Greg Kite, Roy Hinson, Granville Waiters,  Tim Andre, Les Craft....

40 years ago,  its Kent Benson, Jack Sikma, Tree Rollins, Tom LaGarde, Jeff Wilkins, Bob Elliott, James Edwards, Lewis Brown, Ralph Drollinger...

What the heck is going on?

And yet the KY, CT, Cuse, G'Town, Dook's, Cincy, L'Ville's etc,etc, of the world seem to get several. Go figure.

Quote from: crgreen on January 27, 2012, 03:06:43 PM

Quote from: desco80 on January 27, 2012, 11:54:04 AM

Quote from: Celtics11 on January 27, 2012, 12:07:25 AM

Tremendous all around game by Phil vs W Virginia. He D Lo and Branch will make a great 3 g rotation next yr and if we get the bigs we hope we are getting Dom and Amir can ply some g to if we want to go big. Also can go to a 3 g line up, Great versatility in our future.

I agree with you Celts about Phil being part of our 3 guard rotation next yr.   The fact that him and D'angelo will be fresher, that alone is a huge bonus.  But at the risk of going a little off topic..I think we're all overstating the "bigs" we're recruiting for next year.   I don't mean we're overrating their talent, just their size.   Go big?   None of Obekpa, Gathers, or Shepard are bigger than Gift. 
According to ESPN:
R. Gathers     6'7  240
C. Obekpa     6'8  225
W. Shepard   6'8  205
J. Sampson    6'8  200

Even if things fall perfect for us and we get Gathers back and can fight off UCONN for Obekpa ... we're still playing another season without one player over 6'8!   

Re: Size - there doesn't seem to be much out there.   Scout just posted their revised top 100 for 2013.   There are only 2 players over 6'9 on the list, and NONE over 6'10.

I just checked Rivals top 100 for 2012 and counted 12 kids at 6'10 or taller (and there were at least a dozen 6'9 kids too).  Maybe the kids for 2013 aren't done growing?

willis reed was supposedly 6'8"..but i stood next to him and he seemed to be shorter.

We haven't been getting true quality bigs for quite some time now.  Hamilton was the most recent closest thing and the days of the excellent 3 big W's; the Whopper, Wennington and Werdann has long past.

It seems like Lavin looks for other things besides height. Pelle was our only player over 6 8 that I remember Lavs recruiting hard .

It seems like Lavin looks for other things besides height. Pelle was our only player over 6 8 that I remember Lavs recruiting hard .

At UCLA he had 6'11 Dan Gazuric and 6'11 Jerome Moiso in the same classs, and later had 6'11 Mike Fey and 7'0 Ryan Hollins in the same class.

In his 7 years there, his centers were (1997) 6'10 Jelani McCoy, (1998) Jelani McCoy, (1999) 6'11 Dan Gadzuric), (2000) Gadzuric, (2001) Gadzuric, (2002) Gadzuric, (2003) 7'0 Ryan Hollins...

Of course Gadz and Hollins were also exceptional Athletes in addition to being tall.  Gadz (believe it or not) was the fastest sprinter on the team, and Hollins was a world class high jumper.

And one of these day He is going to pull a 7 footer out of a big hat!

And one of these day He is going to pull a 7 footer out of a big hat!

Lavin will grab a 7 footer when the right one presents himself.  Not many in recent classes and Lavin isn't recruiting plodders.

Quote from: 96 Schermerhorn Street on January 27, 2012, 08:26:06 PM

And one of these day He is going to pull a 7 footer out of a big hat!

Lavin will grab a 7 footer when the right one presents himself.  Not many in recent classes and Lavin isn't recruiting plodders.

I think you hit the nail on the head.    He won't waste a scholarship on somebody just for the sake of size.

And I'm not advocating that he does.  There's been 2 good points brought up .. 1) we want athletes who can play the zone and run the floor  and 2) Like choz said there are guys without the size that have the mentality to make them great post defenders and rebounders.

All I want to point out is we really haven't been mentioned with anyone that you would call a true center, in this class or even moving forward really.  And if we want to get to where we think this team can go in say 2 seasons... we'll probably need a guy like that.   Because minus the anomalies like WVU or Marquette a few years ago, most of the good teams are gonna have a guy or two who can cause us trouble.

Mis-matches work both ways, no doubt.  But there's a reason you want a well rounded roster.  That way if you run up against a team with two bigs in the confrence tourny or the NCAAs you can counter punch.

If it's not 2012, I hope coach finds one in the 2013 class.   By then our needs will probably be more specific... unlike this year when we need to add half a roster. 

Quote from: MCNPA on January 27, 2012, 08:48:04 PM

Quote from: 96 Schermerhorn Street on January 27, 2012, 08:26:06 PM

And one of these day He is going to pull a 7 footer out of a big hat!

Lavin will grab a 7 footer when the right one presents himself.  Not many in recent classes and Lavin isn't recruiting plodders.

I think you hit the nail on the head.    He won't waste a scholarship on somebody just for the sake of size.

And I'm not advocating that he does.  There's been 2 good points brought up .. 1) we want athletes who can play the zone and run the floor  and 2) Like choz said there are guys without the size that have the mentality to make them great post defenders and rebounders.

All I want to point out is we really haven't been mentioned with anyone that you would call a true center, in this class or even moving forward really.  And if we want to get to where we think this team can go in say 2 seasons... we'll probably need a guy like that.   Because minus the anomalies like WVU a few years ago, most of the good teams are gonna have a guy or two who can cause us trouble.

Mis-matches work both ways, no doubt.  But there's a reason you want a well rounded roster.  That way if you run up against a team with two bigs in the confrence tourny or the NCAAs you can counter punch.

If it's not 2012, I hope coach finds one in the 2013 class.   By then our needs will probably be more specific... unlike this year when we need to add half a roster. 

Exactly, I'd rather have a 6'8" guy who can play than a guy like Phil Wait.

Quote from: fuchsia on January 27, 2012, 02:39:08 PM

Epitome was Paul Silas, both at Creighton and as a pro.  Cowens / Silas were undersized every night and both wear two championship rings.

Epitome was Wes Unseld, at 6'6 1/2 with a league MVP, League Rookie of the year, a Championship ring, and a place in the Hall of Fame.

Wes had a face up game including a foul line jump shot, Silas did not.

2012 class is HUGE!!!  You know it's big when my hometown, Monroe, NY, has a 6'10 big man...top 75 in the country too.  I wish Lavin was involved, but he's headed to Virginia.  Too bad, because he's better than our last 6'10 center, John Oates of Boston College. 

One thing people either fail to realize or mention is the benefit that Greene is getting all this time it will make him a better player in the end. He's getting battle tested now.

His role on his team will be so much more focused with additional bodies on the roster he will excel.

One thing people either fail to realize or mention is the benefit that Greene is getting all this time it will make him a better player in the end. He's getting battle tested now.

His role on his team will be so much more focused with additional bodies on the roster he will excel.

Greene will be the ultimate role-player for us.  The guy that comes in and defends and can play ever guard spot well without losing much at all.  I really like Phil's game.   He's getting better all the time.  Maybe he's not a full-time starter on that theoretical monster team we're trying to build, but he'll earn plenty of quality minutes over next four years and be an extremely valuable asset.  He's the glue guy that is here even if a guy skips to the nba and we aren't wanton for a guard with nobody in sight except a walkon.   Quality player who is getting better all the time.

Quote from: Dave on January 30, 2012, 12:20:35 AM

One thing people either fail to realize or mention is the benefit that Greene is getting all this time it will make him a better player in the end. He's getting battle tested now.

His role on his team will be so much more focused with additional bodies on the roster he will excel.

Greene will be the ultimate role-player for us.  The guy that comes in and defends and can play ever guard spot well without losing much at all.  I really like Phil's game.   He's getting better all the time.  Maybe he's not a full-time starter on that theoretical monster team we're trying to build, but he'll earn plenty of quality minutes over next four years and be an extremely valuable asset.  He's the glue guy that is here even if a guy skips to the nba and we aren't wanton for a guard with nobody in sight except a walkon.   Quality player who is getting better all the time.

Greene could be much more than a role player.  I think for next year, at least, it will be more like three "starters" at guard.  I know Lav likes to keep the starting lineup pretty fluid so guys don't get complacent either inside that lineup or just outside.  A sensational week of practice for a kid #6 or #7 on the depth chart could mean he gets the start.

I just love Greene's game.  He's got some holes to patch up for sure, but let's be fair with the comparisons...Moe and Harrison are not very fair.  Even Quinn Cook and some other highly ranked players are more appropriate.  This kid can do it all, I think we see some three-guard lineups next year.   The ground he covers on defense already is pretty great.  When we really start with the no mercy trapping next year, he'll be a beast. 

Quote from: fuchsia on January 27, 2012, 02:39:08 PM

Epitome was Paul Silas, both at Creighton and as a pro.  Cowens / Silas were undersized every night and both wear two championship rings.

Epitome was Wes Unseld, at 6'6 1/2 with a league MVP, League Rookie of the year, a Championship ring, and a place in the Hall of Fame.

Did u like Wayne Embrey's game?

Quote from: MCNPA on January 30, 2012, 08:37:09 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 30, 2012, 12:20:35 AM

One thing people either fail to realize or mention is the benefit that Greene is getting all this time it will make him a better player in the end. He's getting battle tested now.

His role on his team will be so much more focused with additional bodies on the roster he will excel.

Greene will be the ultimate role-player for us.  The guy that comes in and defends and can play ever guard spot well without losing much at all.  I really like Phil's game.   He's getting better all the time.  Maybe he's not a full-time starter on that theoretical monster team we're trying to build, but he'll earn plenty of quality minutes over next four years and be an extremely valuable asset.  He's the glue guy that is here even if a guy skips to the nba and we aren't wanton for a guard with nobody in sight except a walkon.   Quality player who is getting better all the time.

Greene could be much more than a role player.  I think for next year, at least, it will be more like three "starters" at guard.  I know Lav likes to keep the starting lineup pretty fluid so guys don't get complacent either inside that lineup or just outside.  A sensational week of practice for a kid #6 or #7 on the depth chart could mean he gets the start.

I just love Greene's game.  He's got some holes to patch up for sure, but let's be fair with the comparisons...Moe and Harrison are not very fair.  Even Quinn Cook and some other highly ranked players are more appropriate.  This kid can do it all, I think we see some three-guard lineups next year.   The ground he covers on defense already is pretty great.  When we really start with the no mercy trapping next year, he'll be a beast.

Agree.  I don't mean role-player as in one getting spot duty when others are tired.  He could easily garner as many minutes as our other guards because he can spell both guard spots and play in 3-guard lineups.  I think the term role-player might have had the wrong connotation and not as I intended.  Dennis Rodman was a role-player as a rebounder but was much more impactful than one might assume from the title. 

Green just needs to do what he's doing now.  If he tightens his shooting a bit and adds some strength, he's a guy that will be tough.  Love his defensive ability as well.  He'll continue to get better.

Quote from: Marillac on January 30, 2012, 10:10:25 AM

Quote from: MCNPA on January 30, 2012, 08:37:09 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 30, 2012, 12:20:35 AM

One thing people either fail to realize or mention is the benefit that Greene is getting all this time it will make him a better player in the end. He's getting battle tested now.

His role on his team will be so much more focused with additional bodies on the roster he will excel.

Greene will be the ultimate role-player for us.  The guy that comes in and defends and can play ever guard spot well without losing much at all.  I really like Phil's game.   He's getting better all the time.  Maybe he's not a full-time starter on that theoretical monster team we're trying to build, but he'll earn plenty of quality minutes over next four years and be an extremely valuable asset.  He's the glue guy that is here even if a guy skips to the nba and we aren't wanton for a guard with nobody in sight except a walkon.   Quality player who is getting better all the time.

Greene could be much more than a role player.  I think for next year, at least, it will be more like three "starters" at guard.  I know Lav likes to keep the starting lineup pretty fluid so guys don't get complacent either inside that lineup or just outside.  A sensational week of practice for a kid #6 or #7 on the depth chart could mean he gets the start.

I just love Greene's game.  He's got some holes to patch up for sure, but let's be fair with the comparisons...Moe and Harrison are not very fair.  Even Quinn Cook and some other highly ranked players are more appropriate.  This kid can do it all, I think we see some three-guard lineups next year.   The ground he covers on defense already is pretty great.  When we really start with the no mercy trapping next year, he'll be a beast.

Agree.  I don't mean role-player as in one getting spot duty when others are tired.  He could easily garner as many minutes as our other guards because he can spell both guard spots and play in 3-guard lineups.  I think the term role-player might have had the wrong connotation and not as I intended.  Dennis Rodman was a role-player as a rebounder but was much more impactful than one might assume from the title. 

Green just needs to do what he's doing now.  If he tightens his shooting a bit and adds some strength, he's a guy that will be tough.  Love his defensive ability as well.  He'll continue to get better.

Greene is super quick and has a feel for the basket. He just needs to tighten his handle a bit and gain experience. He will be more than an adequate outside shooter and third guard for his career. He will have a career at St Johns similar to Paris Horne (maybe not so many 3's) and thats pretty good.