Coaching Carousel Begins

You can't be a lawyer until you go to law school (and finish college).  You can't be a doctor until you go to med school (and finish college).  You can be an NFL player until you're 3 years removed from high school.  You can't be a member of the House of Representatives until you are 25.  You can't be a member of the Senate until you are 30.  You can't be President until you are 35.

So tell me why is it so unjust and unfair that the NBA requires 19/1 year removed from high school?  Nearly every high paying prestigious job requires a college education (I'm talking about the jobs I did not mention), and the jobs I did mention require something more/different.  There are tons of other restrictions on other jobs I did not mention.

So why is it so much more unfair to make ballers wait 1 year for the NBA?  This is NOT a big deal and it just makes them deal with what the rest of us have to deal with.  I think it's good for them, personally.

It should actually be 3 years removed from high school or 21 years old. It would be better for the NBA and better for the NCAA game. Honestly the kids need maturity and an extra few years in college can do that. 

You are a 17 or 18 year old senior in high school (well at least you should be 17 or 18) and you are one of the best high school basketball players in the country. You have scholarship offers from Duke, UNC, St. John's, UCLA, Kentucky and Texas

You now have multiple choices laid out in front of you:
1. Go to the school of your choice for free, start your education, get coached at an extremely high level, receive top notch athletic training and prepare yourself for a career in the NBA or if you are not good enough, you can get yourself an extremely high quality education that you would otherwise not have any access to.
2. You can choose not to go to college and try your luck overseas and play professionally against grown men in one of the various Euro, Middle East or Far East  leagues- get coached by men who don't know nearly as much about the game as the American college coaches - and live on your own in a foreign country where you will not know the language.
3. You can try your luck in the NBADL - where you will be playing against guys who are more then likely bigger, strong and faster then you and will have no concern for your well being because they want the same spot you are working for and will not give a *hit if you tear up a knee or break your ankle.


For 90% of the kids that are on scholarship to play a college sport, they get more out of it then the school.

Back to coaching changes.  Ron Everhart fired at Duquesne:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/duquesne/duquesne-fires-everhart-following-player-transfers-627718/

Listen, I love college sports, LOVE, college basketball and football.
But the truth is we are the only country in the world who connects amateur sports with secondary academics.   

Think about it; if you're a great HS soccer player in England, Italy, Germany etc. you sign a contract with Barcelona or Manchester's development team.  And the same thing happens here in the US if you're an elite baseball player (usually you sign right out of HS), but even more so in sports like tennis and golf etc.
And they get paid, and receive professional training.   Which the top amateur athletes should be entitled to.   


Choz is absolutely right when he says college ball players are taken advantage of. 
But the answer isn't paying kids while they are in college... It's letting the free market decide who is a professional and who's an amateur.   Then you wouldn't have the issues with recruiting and agents influencing college players.

Re para one I agree with  you except to say that a lot of the kids that woudl benefit are not necessarily "top amateur athletes", they just think they are.

Re para two, I agree with you and the first step is seeing more of these kids have the balls to pass up an education and go to Europe like Jennings.  That would force the NBA to consider developing an stronger developmental league so they could better monitor the progress of potential future talent.  If it's just one or two it's easy to watch them in Europe.  If its 10 or 20 per year then they'd have to react.

I still hate URI but Hurley is a good hire.

Quote from: pmg911 on March 23, 2012, 08:00:01 AM

You use an example like Brandon Jennings but you know he is the massive EXCEPTION to the rule and would never ever be the standard.

Thats what peeps was sayin about Garnett back when he declared. He will be the exception. Elite players will still go to college.

Fast forward some years later and the NCAA was so fearful of losing all its talent that it colluded with the NBA to deprive high schoolers of the right to make a living (and maximize their earning potential) in the NBA monopoly until they was 19.

Yes, its hard fo an 17, 18 year old kid to make that gamble, skip college and go to Europe instead of the more traditional route. But one can hope.

Because that's one way where the NCAA house of cards can fall quickly - where their elite talent, their money makers, their cheap labor, their cattle, their property can finally have the playing field leveled. And a change will come.     

I still disagree with you but FWIW I think you're painting the wrong organization as the villain.  The NBA sets the rules of entry and time and again they've shown they care not one iota about how their decisions affect NCAA basketball nor the kids you are so concerned about being victimized with their $60k/annum packages (plus the BMOC benefits that aren't even being discussed).

IMHO, however, the NBA is also doing the correct thing for themselves.  The era of high volume HS>NBA jumps directly corresponds with a period I feel included an exponential drop in the quality of NBA play.  Kids who should have been "interns" in another environment (NCAA, Europe, NBDL, whatever) were being picked up by teams afraid of missing out on them and then sending them on the court even though they weren't ready and lowered the quality of the product.  Essentially kids were trying to play a man's game.  Trainees were being thrust into VP positions.  Mortons was being forced to serve Outback Steakhouse beef. 

It affects their product to this day.  I, and many people I know, find the NBA barely watchable even though it sends the best athletes on the planet out on the court every night.  The reason is these athletes never learned how to play the game, play as a team.  So the NBA becomes the one-on-one jump over everything league it is today.  You can argue that plenty of people still buy the product, well plenty of people still buy McDonalds too.  But when I was a kid everyone watched the NBA game of the week in January.  Now the only time everyone watches is during the Finals.  There is definitely money left on the table due to the inferior product that was brought about by the rules you would want the NBA to readopt.  It is in the leagues financial best interest not to do so from a talent/quality of product perspective and at the same time the NBA benefits from the kids developing their own "brands" if you will while playing in the NBA.  They don't get to do that if they're playing in  Europe, only the hardcore know who they are so that first sneaker contract's value could be adversely affected as well.   Slight chance it could even affect their draft status.

Jeff Goodman now reporting same thing Dallas Morning News reported.  Going after Buzz with serious $$$$.

You want a hot name, current Ohio U coach John Groce.  Took over in July 2008, this is his 4th season.  Took Ohio to NCAA's 2 years ago and as a 14 seed knocked off Georgetown in the first round 3/14 game.  Now has taken Ohio U to the sweet 16 this year.  Former assistant to Thad Matta at OSU.

He'll get some looks and probably some interviews.  Probably not the top choice at Illinois but we'll see.

Almost on que after being turned down by Smart and apparently Brad Stevens as well (fat chance with him) next up is John Groce.

Latest I've heard is Seth Greenberg likely to SMU.  Solid choice for SMU if so.

Quote from: Choz4Life on March 23, 2012, 10:22:29 AM

Look y'all, I cant spend all day going back and forth. A brothers gotta earn a livin. And he cant do that on JJ!!!! LOL.

So in summation:
-Revoke the NCAAs non-profit status.
-Let non-profit schools establish for-profit basketball and football teams whose players are part of a union, paid through a collectively-bargained wage scale based on the $1 billion+ they generate annually. And as part of their compensation package can go (but arent required) to classes and earn a degree for free.   
-This will make the system a bit more honest. Right now its a sham.

Peace out!
Choz4Life

The only sham is the instant gratification that self-entitled amateur athletes expect.   It's an unpaid internship.  It's what almost every professional in every field has to go through.

MC, your opinion certainly has its merits, but thats an unfair comparison.
In other professions college students/grads intern because the market requires you to, or the students do it to improve their value to empemployers to the typical student employers are saying "get some experience, come back and then I'll hire you".

But for guys like Moe, their future employers are saying "I'm ready to hire you now, whatever you still need to learn I can teach you on the job".   
No accounting, insurance, or brokerage firm etc is saying that to 17/18 year olds, or they'd be leaving school early too. 

And on a related point you made; I know a kid can opt to go to Europe, but can HS players enter the d-league?   or do the same 1yr since graduation restrictions apply?

Latest I've heard is Seth Greenberg likely to SMU.  Solid choice for SMU if so.

Doubtfull.  Daugher Ella starts her senior year at Virginia Tech, and daughter Jackie starts as a frosh.  Don't see him moving on while they're in school here.

Quote from: MCNPA on March 25, 2012, 09:57:26 PM

Latest I've heard is Seth Greenberg likely to SMU.  Solid choice for SMU if so.

Doubtfull.  Daugher Ella starts her senior year at Virginia Tech, and daughter Jackie starts as a frosh.  Don't see him moving on while they're in school here.

Don't know, but that's the latest rumor out there...  Been mentioned on twitter quite a bit.

Quote from: crgreen on March 25, 2012, 11:26:08 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on March 25, 2012, 09:57:26 PM

Latest I've heard is Seth Greenberg likely to SMU.  Solid choice for SMU if so.

Doubtfull.  Daugher Ella starts her senior year at Virginia Tech, and daughter Jackie starts as a frosh.  Don't see him moving on while they're in school here.

Don't know, but that's the latest rumor out there...  Been mentioned on twitter quite a bit.

Only motivating factor for SG - even though he was extended, he is still not in the top half of highest salaried ACC coaches despite having 2 ACC COY honors.  I think if SMU upped him to 2.2 Mil or higher, he might jump at the increase.  But it will have to be big money to get him to leave.

Quote from: fordham96 on March 21, 2012, 11:46:17 AM

Quote from: Moose on March 21, 2012, 11:19:06 AM

Quote from: sju89tr on March 21, 2012, 11:00:17 AM

Sendek can't last much longer, 3 players leave in a week and rumors Carson could be next

Always hated when ppl brought up his name for us.  I would have picked a new team to root for.  Thank god he never got a sniff.

Interesting since he is an example of what I talked about in a different thread of a coach jumping at another job that on the surface seems at best a lateral move.  Remember when he left NC St for ASU in 2006.  Most think he was pushed out even after 5 straight NCAA appearances.  Natives were getting restless with his inability to beat Duke and UNC and compete at an elite level.  He saw the writing on the wall and jumped.

He might need to do that again if given the opportunity.

Any admin on a similar level to ASU who gives him a shot after this is nuts IMO.

This is a difficult thread to follow.  It has two really good topics- coaches turnovers and college eligibility.  I wish the moderators would spilt them up.

I bumped into an ASU trustee this week end.  He told me he believes the reason Coach S.  did not get the boot is because the AD is trying desperately to hold on to her job.  ASU has had a mess with both its baseball and football programs.  Dropping another coach would be another indicator of her inability to right the ASU sports program.  There is big time pressure to force her out.  It is only a matter of time before she goes.  If it is soon, expect Coach S to go as well.  If not, Coach S. has a year to prove he belongs out here in the desert. Coach probably should not buy a large container of sun screen.

Goodman tweeting that Frank Martin may be headed to South Carolina.

Goodman tweeting that Frank Martin may be headed to South Carolina.

Funny since Martin was in the CBS studios this weekend denying the rumors that he was negotiating with USC.

Quote from: mkras99 on March 26, 2012, 12:43:33 PM

Goodman tweeting that Frank Martin may be headed to South Carolina.

Funny since Martin was in the CBS studios this weekend denying the rumors that he was negotiating with USC.

Apparently he and the AD don't get along.  KSU also has two bigs signed who may end up opening things up if Martin leaves.

Quote from: fordham96 on March 26, 2012, 12:50:45 PM

Quote from: mkras99 on March 26, 2012, 12:43:33 PM

Goodman tweeting that Frank Martin may be headed to South Carolina.

Funny since Martin was in the CBS studios this weekend denying the rumors that he was negotiating with USC.

Apparently he and the AD don't get along.  KSU also has two bigs signed who may end up opening things up if Martin leaves.

Martin denied it but the rumor was that if Miami came calling last year after Haith went to Mizzou he would have bolted Manhattan, KS for South Beach.

Word is though his reputation in South Florida is not the greatest from his time there as a high school coach.  Apparently he tended to play fast and loose with the rules.

He poked around with our position as well.

Apparently it is a done deal according to news sources.

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/26/3514005/report-south-carolina-to-hire.html