Moe and the 2012 Draft

Quote from: pmg911 on March 11, 2012, 10:45:52 AM

Mo Harkless is NOT ready for the NBA. Leaving after one good year on q team where he had free reign to shoot as much as he would like would be a major mistake. He would be stapled to a bench ine league for a few years.

I do understand the economics of coming out and getting your service time clock started but if he has one bad work out for a team looking to draft him and falls to the second round he has really hurt himself, his future and his family.

Stay in school, have monster Sophmore season and be a Lottery pick, this is a no brainer?

And by the way, what defenses do you face in the NBA?? man-to-man.  And what teams did Moe TEAR APART this year?? The ones that defended in man-to-man.  AND he did it while playing out of position.

Theo, dont you think him playing out of position had a lot to do with him being successful against man to man defenses? I think he has a lot to prove going against 3's.

Quote from: pmg911 on March 11, 2012, 10:45:52 AM

Mo Harkless is NOT ready for the NBA. Leaving after one good year on q team where he had free reign to shoot as much as he would like would be a major mistake. He would be stapled to a bench ine league for a few years.

I do understand the economics of coming out and getting your service time clock started but if he has one bad work out for a team looking to draft him and falls to the second round he has really hurt himself, his future and his family.

Stay in school, have monster Sophmore season and be a Lottery pick, this is a no brainer?

He's being raised by a single mother who works part time at Applebees.  When you're offered a high-6-figure or low-7-figure job in the family financial situation that he's in, don't try to tell any reasonable human being that going back to the 30k a year job (the value of a scholarship at St. John's) is a "no brainer".  I also don't want to hear about the career insurance, because for the most part that can only be collected in full value if an Eric Legrand-like injury occurs.  Moe's income can disappear with one bad landing off a jump for a rebound. 

And by the way, what defenses do you face in the NBA?? man-to-man.  And what teams did Moe TEAR APART this year?? The ones that defended in man-to-man.  AND he did it while playing out of position.

Financial issues aside, I agree that he is NOT ready and it would be a mistake for him to go to the NBA now. His jumpshot needs work, and playing time and experience will help his all around game. Yes, the best coaches are in the NBA, but where will he be able to better develop his skills? Playing 10 minutes a game off the bench in the NBA or 40 minutes a game playing in the Big East. I understand it's not a "no brainer" do to his family situation, but I think it would benefit him in the long run to stay in school for at least one more year.

Quote from: TRabinowitz on March 12, 2012, 08:40:35 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on March 11, 2012, 10:45:52 AM

Mo Harkless is NOT ready for the NBA. Leaving after one good year on q team where he had free reign to shoot as much as he would like would be a major mistake. He would be stapled to a bench ine league for a few years.

I do understand the economics of coming out and getting your service time clock started but if he has one bad work out for a team looking to draft him and falls to the second round he has really hurt himself, his future and his family.

Stay in school, have monster Sophmore season and be a Lottery pick, this is a no brainer?

He's being raised by a single mother who works part time at Applebees.  When you're offered a high-6-figure or low-7-figure job in the family financial situation that he's in, don't try to tell any reasonable human being that going back to the 30k a year job (the value of a scholarship at St. John's) is a "no brainer".  I also don't want to hear about the career insurance, because for the most part that can only be collected in full value if an Eric Legrand-like injury occurs.  Moe's income can disappear with one bad landing off a jump for a rebound. 

And by the way, what defenses do you face in the NBA?? man-to-man.  And what teams did Moe TEAR APART this year?? The ones that defended in man-to-man.  AND he did it while playing out of position.

Financial issues aside, I agree that he is NOT ready and it would be a mistake for him to go to the NBA now. His jumpshot needs work, and playing time and experience will help his all around game. Yes, the best coaches are in the NBA, but where will he be able to better develop his skills? Playing 10 minutes a game off the bench in the NBA or 40 minutes a game playing in the Big East. I understand it's not a "no brainer" do to his family situation, but I think it would benefit him in the long run to stay in school for at least one more year.

I don't think its obvious either way.   It's a very hard decision and in some ways you're rolling the dice either way you go. However to say that passing up THAT type of money when your family is in THAT type of financial situation is a "no brainer" is a bit mind boggling to me.

I hear ya, but next year he could be getting lottery money.

Quote from: redstorm212 on March 12, 2012, 08:52:53 PM

Quote from: TRabinowitz on March 12, 2012, 08:40:35 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on March 11, 2012, 10:45:52 AM

Mo Harkless is NOT ready for the NBA. Leaving after one good year on q team where he had free reign to shoot as much as he would like would be a major mistake. He would be stapled to a bench ine league for a few years.

I do understand the economics of coming out and getting your service time clock started but if he has one bad work out for a team looking to draft him and falls to the second round he has really hurt himself, his future and his family.

Stay in school, have monster Sophmore season and be a Lottery pick, this is a no brainer?

He's being raised by a single mother who works part time at Applebees.  When you're offered a high-6-figure or low-7-figure job in the family financial situation that he's in, don't try to tell any reasonable human being that going back to the 30k a year job (the value of a scholarship at St. John's) is a "no brainer".  I also don't want to hear about the career insurance, because for the most part that can only be collected in full value if an Eric Legrand-like injury occurs.  Moe's income can disappear with one bad landing off a jump for a rebound. 

And by the way, what defenses do you face in the NBA?? man-to-man.  And what teams did Moe TEAR APART this year?? The ones that defended in man-to-man.  AND he did it while playing out of position.

Financial issues aside, I agree that he is NOT ready and it would be a mistake for him to go to the NBA now. His jumpshot needs work, and playing time and experience will help his all around game. Yes, the best coaches are in the NBA, but where will he be able to better develop his skills? Playing 10 minutes a game off the bench in the NBA or 40 minutes a game playing in the Big East. I understand it's not a "no brainer" do to his family situation, but I think it would benefit him in the long run to stay in school for at least one more year.

I don't think its obvious either way.   It's a very hard decision and in some ways you're rolling the dice either way you go. However to say that passing up THAT type of money when your family is in THAT type of financial situation is a "no brainer" is a bit mind boggling to me.

Yes, it's a very tough decision either way, but the $ difference between the 25th pick and the 10th pick is quite a lot. With the loaded draft class this year 25 is about where he'll most likely fall, and Moe being able to play his more natural position next year, I think being a top 10 pick is a very real possibility. I hope the people advising him are telling him this.

I hear ya, but next year he could be getting lottery money.

I think he's a lottery pick right now.  Can't find 10 better Players, minus europeans

Quote from: HowCouldUBeSoHarkless on March 12, 2012, 09:10:01 PM

I hear ya, but next year he could be getting lottery money.

I think he's a lottery pick right now.  Can't find 10 better Players, minus europeans

The minus Europeans part is a big one. Euros, Africans, South Americans can jump into the lottery, and for the last 15 years have. Guys like Omar Cook didn't keep that in mind. Hopefully Harkless thinks this through, but I think Lavin needs to produce the right kind of frontcourt players to give Moe the chance to play his position.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 13, 2012, 08:11:14 AM

Quote from: HowCouldUBeSoHarkless on March 12, 2012, 09:10:01 PM

I hear ya, but next year he could be getting lottery money.

I think he's a lottery pick right now.  Can't find 10 better Players, minus europeans

The minus Europeans part is a big one. Euros, Africans, South Americans can jump into the lottery, and for the last 15 years have. Guys like Omar Cook didn't keep that in mind. Hopefully Harkless thinks this through, but I think Lavin needs to produce the right kind of frontcourt players to give Moe the chance to play his position.

There are NBA people that think there will be 11 Europeans selected in NEXT year's NBA draft 1st round.

Theo to think in terms of one year vs. potentially setting your family up forever is short sited and short minded. If this kid has strong advisors in his circlew they are telling him to go back to school.

He is NOT a Lottery Pick this year, no chance.

Quote from: Poison on March 13, 2012, 08:28:47 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 13, 2012, 08:11:14 AM

Quote from: HowCouldUBeSoHarkless on March 12, 2012, 09:10:01 PM

I hear ya, but next year he could be getting lottery money.

I think he's a lottery pick right now.  Can't find 10 better Players, minus europeans

The minus Europeans part is a big one. Euros, Africans, South Americans can jump into the lottery, and for the last 15 years have. Guys like Omar Cook didn't keep that in mind. Hopefully Harkless thinks this through, but I think Lavin needs to produce the right kind of frontcourt players to give Moe the chance to play his position.

There are NBA people that think there will be 11 Europeans selected in NEXT year's NBA draft 1st round.

Interesting since NBADraft.net has only 1 in the first round, and not many in the 2nd either.

*Also DraftExpress has only 1 Euro in the 1st round.

Theo to think in terms of one year vs. potentially setting your family up forever is short sited and short minded. If this kid has strong advisors in his circlew they are telling him to go back to school.

He is NOT a Lottery Pick this year, no chance.

I think what Theo is pointing out is the NBA is guaranteed money. It's different than MLB & NFL drafts. If you have an opportunity its hard to pass up.

On the flip side I also agree with you PMG that his potential is greater if he waits 1 more year but you never know.

How many times moe  come up gimpy this season?

How many times moe  come up gimpy this season?

He didn't miss any games. Relevance?

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 13, 2012, 12:56:57 PM

How many times moe  come up gimpy this season?

He didn't miss any games. Relevance?

The thought of injury might have been on mind

I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract.  I am in total agreement on that.

HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year.  At the very least its a very hard decision either way.  Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer".  That's almost an insult to reality. 

And is he as strong as he should be?? No.  Does his jump shot need work?? Yes.  But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason). 

I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract.  I am in total agreement on that.

HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year.  At the very least its a very hard decision either way.  Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer".  That's almost an insult to reality. 

And is he as strong as he should be?? No.  Does his jump shot need work?? Yes.  But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason). 

Do you get better playing or practicing? I agree on the skills training he will get at the next level, but can't imagine from what I saw this year that he will get much playing time next year if he goes. The money is the issue, and the security it can bring to his family. I believe it was in the Nerlens Noel story in the NY Times, that many kids who don't have extended careers, go through their money pretty quickly, I was surprised how fast. Easy for me to say, but believe another year would benefit him greatly as he matures both physically and mentally. Watching Brad Beal of U. of  Florida last Saturday, I can see him getting solid minutes right away, don't feel that way about Moe at all.

 After reading Nate Blue's comments on Boeheim, I hope Moe has someone in his family more  mature and intelligent advising him. Thought Boeheim's advice was on the money for Moe. Either way it was a pleasure watching him this year.

Quote from: TRabinowitz on March 13, 2012, 03:08:46 PM

I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract.  I am in total agreement on that.

HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year.  At the very least its a very hard decision either way.  Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer".  That's almost an insult to reality. 

And is he as strong as he should be?? No.  Does his jump shot need work?? Yes.  But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason). 

Do you get better playing or practicing? I agree on the skills training he will get at the next level, but can't imagine from what I saw this year that he will get much playing time next year if he goes. The money is the issue, and the security it can bring to his family. I believe it was in the Nerlens Noel story in the NY Times, that many kids who don't have extended careers, go through their money pretty quickly, I was surprised how fast. Easy for me to say, but believe another year would benefit him greatly as he matures both physically and mentally. Watching Brad Beal of U. of  Florida last Saturday, I can see him getting solid minutes right away, don't feel that way about Moe at all.

 After reading Nate Blue's comments on Boeheim, I hope Moe has someone in his family more  mature and intelligent advising him. Thought Boeheim's advice was on the money for Moe. Either way it was a pleasure watching him this year.

What did Blue say about Boeheim?

Quote from: shamsman2 on March 13, 2012, 03:37:44 PM

Quote from: TRabinowitz on March 13, 2012, 03:08:46 PM

I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract.  I am in total agreement on that.

HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year.  At the very least its a very hard decision either way.  Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer".  That's almost an insult to reality. 

And is he as strong as he should be?? No.  Does his jump shot need work?? Yes.  But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason). 

Do you get better playing or practicing? I agree on the skills training he will get at the next level, but can't imagine from what I saw this year that he will get much playing time next year if he goes. The money is the issue, and the security it can bring to his family. I believe it was in the Nerlens Noel story in the NY Times, that many kids who don't have extended careers, go through their money pretty quickly, I was surprised how fast. Easy for me to say, but believe another year would benefit him greatly as he matures both physically and mentally. Watching Brad Beal of U. of  Florida last Saturday, I can see him getting solid minutes right away, don't feel that way about Moe at all.

 After reading Nate Blue's comments on Boeheim, I hope Moe has someone in his family more  mature and intelligent advising him. Thought Boeheim's advice was on the money for Moe. Either way it was a pleasure watching him this year.

What did Blue say about Boeheim?

Pretty much told him to worry about his child molesting asst coach and players failing drug tests and worry about being crooked since Conrad Mcrae instead of commenting on Moe.

Quote from: TRabinowitz on March 13, 2012, 03:08:46 PM

I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract.  I am in total agreement on that.

HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year.  At the very least its a very hard decision either way.  Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer".  That's almost an insult to reality. 

And is he as strong as he should be?? No.  Does his jump shot need work?? Yes.  But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason). 

Do you get better playing or practicing? I agree on the skills training he will get at the next level, but can't imagine from what I saw this year that he will get much playing time next year if he goes. The money is the issue, and the security it can bring to his family. I believe it was in the Nerlens Noel story in the NY Times, that many kids who don't have extended careers, go through their money pretty quickly, I was surprised how fast. Easy for me to say, but believe another year would benefit him greatly as he matures both physically and mentally. Watching Brad Beal of U. of  Florida last Saturday, I can see him getting solid minutes right away, don't feel that way about Moe at all.

After reading Nate Blue's comments on Boeheim, I hope Moe has someone in his family more  mature and intelligent advising him. Thought Boeheim's advice was on the money for Moe. Either way it was a pleasure watching him this year.

Whoa. I'm not if you know Nate or not but I do. He speaks his mind and his online persona may come across poorly to some but he knows what he's doing. He's very smart when it comes to this stuff. Real recognize real! Nate can read situations very well. He's very loyal too and he has St. John's interest in mind. Just let things play out.

I'm glad somebody called Boeheim out for that crap.  I'm a big fan of Nate.