Moe and the 2012 Draft

I have been very vocal in saying Moe should have stayed another year but last night I was talking to some people with NBA ties and they all think Moe is a lock for the mid first round and will be a very good player in the league.

I hope they are right..!!

Quote from: LJSA on April 05, 2012, 05:22:57 AM

Quote from: crgreen on April 05, 2012, 03:37:07 AM

An old buddy of mine (and I mean both that we've been friends a long time, and that we are OLD), is prepping up for his annualy jaunt to the NBA draft.  He's hunkering down watching every bit of internet data on every potential draftable kid.   He emailed me with an interesting take on Moe Harkless.   After seeing the rebouding abllity, jumping ability, and that incredbly quick first step on his drives, my friend says that Moe is "the closest thing he's seen to a young Elgin Baylor in over half a century of watching prospects"....

My friend was in Freedom Hall in Louisville when Elgin's Seatle U team lost in the NCAA title game to Rupp's Kentucky Wildcats in 1958, so when he says "young Elgin", he means it !

I hadn't thought about the comparison.  Unfortunately, as a Laker fan, the Elgin I remember is the one from his last 4 years, after the injuries had worn him down, and he'd bulked up to nearly 230 lbs.  Had to force myself to remember back to when the Lakers first move out from Minneapolis, and what kind of player Baylor was as a youngster.   It's really a good comparison, I think. 

I only know Elgin by reputation and not viewing, but if the comparison is accurate, you have to figure someone else with drafting power will have noticed it, making it a smart move for Moe to have entered the draft.

Up till 3 /2 years ago, it might have been the original Big E noticing - he was the Clippers Exec VP and GM for 22 years, till he was forced to resign at 74 years old in 2008.  He took a lot of grief because the Clips owner Donald Sterling is such a jerk, sabotaging all attempts to build a team (power of the purse string), but Elg had a pretty darn good history of draft picks in his 22 years:  Reggie Williams, Hersey Hawkins, Danny Manning, Danny Ferry, Loy Vaught, Bo Kimble, LeRon Ellis, Elmore Spencer, Randy Woods, Terry Dehere, Greg Minor, Lamond Murray, Antonio McDyess, Lorenzen Wright, Maurice Tayler, Brian Skinner, Michael Oliwakandi, Lamar Odom, Quentin Richzrdson, Darius Miles, Tyson Chandler, Melvin Ely, Chris WIlcox, Shaun Livingston, Chris Kaman, Al Thornton, and Eric Gordon.

You forgot the future hall of famer, Benoit Benjamin  I guess you omitted him for a reason.

I have been very vocal in saying Moe should have stayed another year but last night I was talking to some people with NBA ties and they all think Moe is a lock for the mid first round and will be a very good player in the league.

I hope they are right..!!

Are you sure you weren't talking to Bobre   

Are you sure you weren't talking to Bobre

I can say with out question, I have never had the pleasure.

Saw a lot of Elgin and I don't see the similarities.  He was much shorter than Moe but was known for his hang time and creativity around the hoop.  Moe is probably going to be more of a perimeter in slasher in the league.  Was talking to my NBA guy last night.  He noted that a lot of so called 6'8" guys turn out to be 6'6 1/2 when they show up for workouts.  He said it will be the opposite with Moe and said he could wind up going ninth depending on team needs and draft IQs.  He also predicted he'll go no worse than 20th as is.  We'll see.

I agree about Elgin Baylor. Completely different body type, different mentality, different game.

Quote from: crgreen on April 05, 2012, 07:36:48 AM

Quote from: LJSA on April 05, 2012, 05:22:57 AM

Quote from: crgreen on April 05, 2012, 03:37:07 AM

An old buddy of mine (and I mean both that we've been friends a long time, and that we are OLD), is prepping up for his annualy jaunt to the NBA draft.  He's hunkering down watching every bit of internet data on every potential draftable kid.   He emailed me with an interesting take on Moe Harkless.   After seeing the rebouding abllity, jumping ability, and that incredbly quick first step on his drives, my friend says that Moe is "the closest thing he's seen to a young Elgin Baylor in over half a century of watching prospects"....

My friend was in Freedom Hall in Louisville when Elgin's Seatle U team lost in the NCAA title game to Rupp's Kentucky Wildcats in 1958, so when he says "young Elgin", he means it !

I hadn't thought about the comparison.  Unfortunately, as a Laker fan, the Elgin I remember is the one from his last 4 years, after the injuries had worn him down, and he'd bulked up to nearly 230 lbs.  Had to force myself to remember back to when the Lakers first move out from Minneapolis, and what kind of player Baylor was as a youngster.   It's really a good comparison, I think. 

I only know Elgin by reputation and not viewing, but if the comparison is accurate, you have to figure someone else with drafting power will have noticed it, making it a smart move for Moe to have entered the draft.

Up till 3 /2 years ago, it might have been the original Big E noticing - he was the Clippers Exec VP and GM for 22 years, till he was forced to resign at 74 years old in 2008.  He took a lot of grief because the Clips owner Donald Sterling is such a jerk, sabotaging all attempts to build a team (power of the purse string), but Elg had a pretty darn good history of draft picks in his 22 years:  Reggie Williams, Hersey Hawkins, Danny Manning, Danny Ferry, Loy Vaught, Bo Kimble, LeRon Ellis, Elmore Spencer, Randy Woods, Terry Dehere, Greg Minor, Lamond Murray, Antonio McDyess, Lorenzen Wright, Maurice Tayler, Brian Skinner, Michael Oliwakandi, Lamar Odom, Quentin Richzrdson, Darius Miles, Tyson Chandler, Melvin Ely, Chris WIlcox, Shaun Livingston, Chris Kaman, Al Thornton, and Eric Gordon.

You forgot the future hall of famer, Benoit Benjamin  I guess you omitted him for a reason.

Elg became GM in 1986.  Benoit was the Clippers #1 pick in 1985.   FYI, big Ben averaged 14pts 9 rebs in his 6 seasons as a Clipper.  While you hope for a hall of famer, most GMs would be more than happy to get that from their first rounder.

Quote from: bobre45 on April 05, 2012, 09:38:48 AM

Saw a lot of Elgin and I don't see the similarities.  He was much shorter than Moe but was known for his hang time and creativity around the hoop.  Moe is probably going to be more of a perimeter in slasher in the league.  Was talking to my NBA guy last night.  He noted that a lot of so called 6'8" guys turn out to be 6'6 1/2 when they show up for workouts.  He said it will be the opposite with Moe and said he could wind up going ninth depending on team needs and draft IQs.  He also predicted he'll go no worse than 20th as is.  We'll see.

I agree about Elgin Baylor. Completely different body type, different mentality, different game.

Derk, unless you saw him in High School in DC, or at his first college, I think you're picturing the 25 -35 year old fully developed Baylor, not the 18-19 year long and lean kid.  (and 6'5 1/2  55 years ago WAS as tall as a 6'8 kid today comparatively).  I have no idea WHAT Mo's body type will be in 2019-2030.  Unforntuately for comparison, there are no surviving photos of Elgins frosh/soph year at College of Idaho.  Nor from his year off transferring to Seattle U.  The only photos are from 1958, and he was 23 1/2 years old vs Ky in the NCAA title game - 5 years older than Mo.  And he was still pretty long and lean at that age.

McAdoo staying in College helps out Moe

McAdoo staying in College helps out Moe

So does DeShaun Thomas of OSU who announced he will return to Columbus for his Junior year.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on April 05, 2012, 05:40:36 PM

McAdoo staying in College helps out Moe

So does DeShaun Thomas of OSU who announced he will return to Columbus for his Junior year.

Another smart move and another 1st team All American next year

“@TheRecruitScoop: RT @GoodmanCBS: Texas A&M junior forward Khris Middleton is declaring for the 2012 NBA Draft.”

“@TheRecruitScoop: RT @GoodmanCBS: Texas A&M junior forward Khris Middleton is declaring for the 2012 NBA Draft.”

And she's on the women's team!   ( Referencing the high # of underclassmen declaring for NBA draft-not meant to offend anyone for any sensitive types-because I am not really familiar with him).

Quote from: derk on April 05, 2012, 11:09:18 AM

Quote from: bobre45 on April 05, 2012, 09:38:48 AM

Saw a lot of Elgin and I don't see the similarities.  He was much shorter than Moe but was known for his hang time and creativity around the hoop.  Moe is probably going to be more of a perimeter in slasher in the league.  Was talking to my NBA guy last night.  He noted that a lot of so called 6'8" guys turn out to be 6'6 1/2 when they show up for workouts.  He said it will be the opposite with Moe and said he could wind up going ninth depending on team needs and draft IQs.  He also predicted he'll go no worse than 20th as is.  We'll see.

I agree about Elgin Baylor. Completely different body type, different mentality, different game.

Derk, unless you saw him in High School in DC, or at his first college, I think you're picturing the 25 -35 year old fully developed Baylor, not the 18-19 year long and lean kid.  (and 6'5 1/2  55 years ago WAS as tall as a 6'8 kid today comparatively).  I have no idea WHAT Mo's body type will be in 2019-2030.  Unforntuately for comparison, there are no surviving photos of Elgins frosh/soph year at College of Idaho.  Nor from his year off transferring to Seattle U.  The only photos are from 1958, and he was 23 1/2 years old vs Ky in the NCAA title game - 5 years older than Mo.  And he was still pretty long and lean at that age.

Talking about Moe and comparing him to anyone from the 50's - 60's can be difficult . You mentioned one of the differences being a 6"5 Baylor size wise might be the equivalent of a 6"8" player today.

No I was referring to the pro Baylor against a Moe we don't yet know. But I just don't see Moe as developing the attacking style that the Elg had. Or be the pro rebounder Baylor was. I see Moe more of a Rudy Gay type.

“@TheRecruitScoop: Baylor sophomore forward Perry Jones will enter the 2012 NBA Draft, while Michigan freshman guard Trey Burke has decided to return to school”

“@TheRecruitScoop: Baylor sophomore forward Perry Jones will enter the 2012 NBA Draft, while Michigan freshman guard Trey Burke has decided to return to school”

Burke was quick

Funny too perhaps in a panic move Beilein got a commitment from an under the radar PG a few days ago shortly after Burke announced.

DraftXpress has Moe at 21 to the Grizzlies.

“@NorthstarBball: Good stuff from Lehigh's CJ McCollum on why he is returning to school for his senior year . . . http://t.co/7FO92zlL”

USA Today's first Mock has Moe going 19 to the Nets. I'm sure that would be the ideal situation for him and his family. Would be fun for us fans to be able to watch all of his games too.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2012-04-10/USA-TODAY-Sports-first-NBA-mock-draft/54153600/1

Are there no good foreign players coming over this year..? Every Mock Draft I have seen has none.