Moe and the 2012 Draft

Back to Mo. Knows how finish. I would sell him as the next Hawk

Great all around skills but could never hold Jabbar under 35.

Saw the smiley - but some of the younger posters might not know.  Bill (the healthy young one) regularly held Kareem in the 20s - That's how Portland was able to come out of the pacific and win their only NBA title with Bill.  Kareem has written than Bill Walton and Nate Thurmond were the toughest defensive centers he ever faced (Nate - over the  years has become the 2nd most underrated center of all time to me - next to the great Mel Daniels).

That being said, Kareem is still the Best that ever was.   No one has ever been AS good as LONG as Kareem Abdul Jabbar.   The guy was NBA Finals MVP at age 38.   ALL NBA First team at age 39.   He was an NBA All-Star at age 42.

Whenever someone asks me if I think Kareem was better than Russell or Chamberlain, I say "Yeah.  6 YEARS better than Chamberlain, 7 years better than Russell."    Russ retired after 13 years, Chamberain after 14 years.   AFTER his 14th season, Kareem won THREE NBA Championships.   And during those first 13 years?   Just had more points, rebounds and blocks than anyone in the NBA over those 14 years.  Oh, and racked up 3 other NBA Championships, and 6 NBA MVP awards.   His sustained excellence is unmatched in hoops history.   Tho what Steve Nash is producing this year at 38  (over 12 assists a game) is pretty impressive.

Quote from: ZJOHNIES on April 20, 2012, 04:43:32 PM

Great all around skills but could never hold Jabbar under 35.

Saw the smiley - but some of the younger posters might not know.  Bill (the healthy young one) regularly held Kareem in the 20s - That's how Portland was able to come out of the pacific and win their only NBA title with Bill.  Kareem has written than Bill Walton and Nate Thurmond were the toughest defensive centers he ever faced (Nate - over the  years has become the 2nd most underrated center of all time to me - next to the great Mel Daniels).

That being said, Kareem is still the Best that ever was.   No one has ever been AS good as LONG as Kareem Abdul Jabbar.   The guy was NBA Finals MVP at age 38.   ALL NBA First team at age 39.   He was an NBA All-Star at age 42.

Whenever someone asks me if I think Kareem was better than Russell or Chamberlain, I say "Yeah.  6 YEARS better than Chamberlain, 7 years better than Russell."    Russ retired after 13 years, Chamberain after 14 years.   AFTER his 14th season, Kareem won THREE NBA Championships.   And during those first 13 years?   Just had more points, rebounds and blocks than anyone in the NBA over those 14 years.  Oh, and racked up 3 other NBA Championships, and 6 NBA MVP awards.   His sustained excellence is unmatched in hoops history.   Tho what Steve Nash is producing this year at 38  (over 12 assists a game) is pretty impressive.

And what was also remarkable was how he single took Milwaukee from cellar dwellar to champ upon joining the team

Quote from: crgreen on April 20, 2012, 06:48:42 PM

Quote from: ZJOHNIES on April 20, 2012, 04:43:32 PM

Great all around skills but could never hold Jabbar under 35.

Saw the smiley - but some of the younger posters might not know.  Bill (the healthy young one) regularly held Kareem in the 20s - That's how Portland was able to come out of the pacific and win their only NBA title with Bill.  Kareem has written than Bill Walton and Nate Thurmond were the toughest defensive centers he ever faced (Nate - over the  years has become the 2nd most underrated center of all time to me - next to the great Mel Daniels).

That being said, Kareem is still the Best that ever was.   No one has ever been AS good as LONG as Kareem Abdul Jabbar.   The guy was NBA Finals MVP at age 38.   ALL NBA First team at age 39.   He was an NBA All-Star at age 42.

Whenever someone asks me if I think Kareem was better than Russell or Chamberlain, I say "Yeah.  6 YEARS better than Chamberlain, 7 years better than Russell."    Russ retired after 13 years, Chamberain after 14 years.   AFTER his 14th season, Kareem won THREE NBA Championships.   And during those first 13 years?   Just had more points, rebounds and blocks than anyone in the NBA over those 14 years.  Oh, and racked up 3 other NBA Championships, and 6 NBA MVP awards.   His sustained excellence is unmatched in hoops history.   Tho what Steve Nash is producing this year at 38  (over 12 assists a game) is pretty impressive.

And what was also remarkable was how he single took Milwaukee from cellar dwellar to champ upon joining the team

Tho credit where credit is due - that guy Oscar helped a bit, too.  And there are guys in the hall of fame with WORSE numbers than Bobby Dandridge.

Championship team built from scratch in 3 years. They got the sweet shooting guard they'd need in Jon McGlocklin in the Expansion draft of 1968 from the Rockets.  In that 1st regular draft that year, they picked the steady SF they'd need in Greg Smith.  And traded rookie guard John Arthurs to the Suns for backup center Dick "Cement Mixer" Cunningham.   Then they made themselves major contenders for 1970 by drafting Kareem and Dandrige in the '69 draft.  But some GREAT front office moves after that season made them Champions in 1971.  They traded backup center Charlie Paulk and point guard Flynn Robinson to Cincinnatti for Oscar Robertson.  Then they traded starting PF Don Smith (Zaid Abdul-Aziz) to the Supersonics for aging PF Bob Boozer, and guard Lucius Allen (3rd pick after Alcindor and Neal Walk in the  '69 draft).  To lock it all  up, wth a month to go in the title season, they traded their Rookie first round pick  6'9 Gary Freeman to Cleveland for an experienced solid backup PF in McCoy McLemore.  They KEPT 2nd round pick guard Billy Zopf out of Duquesne.    And suddenly you had a solid and deep Championship team in just 3 seasons.   

Kareem with 40+ minutes at center, with grabage time by Cunningham.
Bobby Dandridge at one forward getting 18 pts and 9 boards, backed by Bob Boozer and McCoy Mclemore
Greg Smith getting 30 minutes at SF, with Dandrige sliding down when he went out.
Jon McGlocklin getting 17 pts a game shooting 54% from the field at the SG, backed by Lucius Allen
Oscar getting 19 pts a game and 9 assists at the Point, backed by Lucius and Zopf.

Kareem would stay with the Bucks for 6 seasons before forcing the trade to LA.   It's a testment to how great he was that the Bucks COULDN'T recover from losing him.  Because what they got for him, in todays market WOULD make, say, the Cleveland Cavaliers contenders:    7'0 Elmore Smith (best year 17 pts 15 rebs, led league in blocks, career 13/11/3), 6'9 David Meyers (best year 14pts 7 rebs, career 11/6), 6'5 Junior Bridgeman (best year 17pts 5 rebs, career 13/4), and 6'4 Brian Winters (best year 20pts 5 assists, career 16/4). 

Quote from: crgreen on April 20, 2012, 06:48:42 PM

Quote from: ZJOHNIES on April 20, 2012, 04:43:32 PM

Great all around skills but could never hold Jabbar under 35.

Saw the smiley - but some of the younger posters might not know.  Bill (the healthy young one) regularly held Kareem in the 20s - That's how Portland was able to come out of the pacific and win their only NBA title with Bill.  Kareem has written than Bill Walton and Nate Thurmond were the toughest defensive centers he ever faced (Nate - over the  years has become the 2nd most underrated center of all time to me - next to the great Mel Daniels).

That being said, Kareem is still the Best that ever was.   No one has ever been AS good as LONG as Kareem Abdul Jabbar.   The guy was NBA Finals MVP at age 38.   ALL NBA First team at age 39.   He was an NBA All-Star at age 42.

Whenever someone asks me if I think Kareem was better than Russell or Chamberlain, I say "Yeah.  6 YEARS better than Chamberlain, 7 years better than Russell."    Russ retired after 13 years, Chamberain after 14 years.   AFTER his 14th season, Kareem won THREE NBA Championships.   And during those first 13 years?   Just had more points, rebounds and blocks than anyone in the NBA over those 14 years.  Oh, and racked up 3 other NBA Championships, and 6 NBA MVP awards.   His sustained excellence is unmatched in hoops history.   Tho what Steve Nash is producing this year at 38  (over 12 assists a game) is pretty impressive.

And what was also remarkable was how he single took Milwaukee from cellar dwellar to champ upon joining the team

Not quite by himself, he had Oscar Robertson, Bobby Dandridge, Lucius Allen, and Jon Mc Glocklin on his team. They did not win the championship until Oscar joined them.

Quantoid analysis is not always correct as it would confuse longevity with greatness (do you want Koufax or that other Dodger pitcher whose name I forget who won 300 without ever winning 20 in a season?)  Kareem was terrific but Russell who I first saw live at MSG in 1957 was a whole different cup of tea.  Kareem was a wonderfully reliable part of teams led by others.  Russell was both the engine and the steering for ten championship teams that were shaped around his intensity, defensive presence, and total court awareness.

Kareem not the shot blocker or rebounder that some of the other great centers were. Longevity not a good argument to say greatest ever-is 49 yr okd Jamie Moyer the greatest pitcher ever?

Quantoid analysis is not always correct as it would confuse longevity with greatness (do you want Koufax or that other Dodger pitcher whose name I forget who won 300 without ever winning 20 in a season?)  Kareem was terrific but Russell who I first saw live at MSG in 1957 was a whole different cup of tea.  Kareem was a wonderfully reliable part of teams led by others.  Russell was both the engine and the steering for ten championship teams that were shaped around his intensity, defensive presence, and total court awareness.

AND, it should be mentioned, having as many as EIGHT other Hall of Famers on the same roster   One year his teammates included Bob Cousy, Tom Heinsohn, KC Jones, Sam Jones, Satch Sanders, Frank Ramsey, Clyde Lovlette, and John Havlichek --- with Bill, that made 9 future Hall of Famers.  He never won a title with less than SIX Hall of Famers in the lineup.

I too think he's one of the best that ever was - but because of his offensive limitations (career 15 pts a game, career 44% FGs, career 56% Fts), I have him  as "only" the 3rd best center ever.  But hey, I'm so old, that I have Bob Kurland in my top 10! 

Figured we would agree to disagree on this one and we both know that Kareem never had any HoF teammates.  What gets me is that as a Celtics fan since 1957 (with two years off of throwing up under Pitino and anxiety dissorder under Y John Brown) I still can not think of a power forward better than Bob Pettit.

Lol compared Kareem to Jamie that was funny! Anyway saw this on the net yesterday

http://nbadraft.net/nba-draft-positional-battles-direct-competitors

Moe Harkless vs. Terrence Jones
Theme: Combo-Forwards

These guys have the size, athleticism and mobility to play both the 3 and the 4. Put em' on the perimeter or let em' work the post.

Harkless is smooth, and can generally operate from any spot on the floor. He's an excellent, fluid athlete that scores off tip-ins, awkward angles or in transition. Jones plays a similar game, with a more accomplished outside stroke but a motor that sparks widespread debate. Playing two years of collegiate ball is like an eternity these days, and Jones' impact has been flushed out at times thanks to a deep rotation of pro prospects.

Both guys have very similar outlooks, but Harkless' ceiling appears higher. Though it could be a few years before he becomes a consistent contributor, I'm going with Harkless over Jones. Although if you feel otherwise, I ain't mad at'cha.

---

I can see them getting match up in pre draft work outs. I hope Moe put on some weight for that match up.

Shaq was the greatest center ever.

Shaq was the greatest center ever.

Him and Avery "No longer the single season three point record holder" Patterson on a team together would have been deadly.

Mos putting in the work. Hopefully he shoots like this during his workouts.

Moe Harkless And Fab Melo

Mos putting in the work. Hopefully he shoots like this during his workouts.

Moe Harkless And Fab Melo

Add him to the pieces where putting in this year I woulda called an elite 8 run

Quincy Miller declared yesterday.  That hurts Mo.  I know it could happen, but I don't see how any GM could take Moe over Q. 

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on April 24, 2012, 09:17:55 PM

Shaq was the greatest center ever.

Him and Avery "No longer the single season three point record holder" Patterson on a team together would have been deadly.

Good one.   

Quincy Miller declared yesterday.  That hurts Mo.  I know it could happen, but I don't see how any GM could take Moe over Q. 

We've gone over this one before Marillac, I think the exact opposite. Gentleman's bet?

Moe was looking good in that Youtube clip^^^^^^

http://instagr.am/p/JU6yNPvv3_/

Moe & Yung Mase at IMG

Quote from: LJSA on April 19, 2012, 11:24:27 PM

Quote from: crgreen on April 19, 2012, 11:26:42 AM

But it's still  a gamble worth taking -  Walton got them the NBA title and their only league MVP, and as bad as his knees were since high school, it was his feet that derailed his pro career, not his knees.

If I had the power to give one player a completely pain-free career, I think it would have been Walton.

Hes way before my time but my Father always tells me he may have been the best center ever if it wasnt for his injuries

Your father was right.

Quincy Miller declared yesterday.  That hurts Mo.

Gerardo Suero declared yesterday.  That hurts me.  I'm devastated.