Who replaces Dunlap?

Quote from: crgreen on June 26, 2012, 04:33:15 PM

Quote from: Moose on June 26, 2012, 04:02:46 PM

Quote from: crgreen on June 26, 2012, 03:49:27 PM

Quote from: paultzman on June 26, 2012, 07:07:39 AM

“@franfraschilla: Hearing that Tom Abatemarco may be on Coach Lav's short list. Would be great there. Can recruit ANYWHERE. HS/AAU guys love him. He works!”

Rethinking the recruiting assistant thing.  This past recruiting season has certainly demonstrated the value of a TWO man dedicated recruiting team out in the field.   Could be Lav's DOES think he needs a proven experienced Senior recruiter out there with coach Chiles.    After all, this past year was certainly an annomoly - the head coach able to act as a FULL time lead recruiter.   That's not going to be the case going forward.  With Steve back on the bench and at practice full-time,  he may feel he needs someone else out their in the field leading the full-court press on recruits, while he re-assumes his normal head coaching duties, and returns to his normalrecruiting role as "the closer".

In which case, a guy like Abatemarco, with his recent western US recruiting success,  makes perfect sense.

Just speculating, of cours.

No.
We need X and O guy. End of story IMO.

Unless Steve thinks new Full-Time New Yorker Keady is Xs and Os enuf.

Do you?
I don't and that's not a knock on Keady but the game isn't what it was when he coached.  Keady is a helluva extra asset we have.  There are limitations on what he can and cannot do as he's not a coach on staff.

I'll say this - I agree with Moose that we need more of an X's and Os or player development coach,  but if you look at the names that have been floating around.. most of them have some recruiting experience/expertise.   Besides the ac with the Pacers. 

So CR may be correct in that Lavin either a) wants a 3rd person on the recruiting trails with him and Tony, or b) would like to hand most of the recruiting off to Tony and a new assistant and spend more time at base camp. 

Let's not forget Dunlap really didn't do much recruiting at all.   I think it was mentioned he was out watching players a few times with Tony locally, but besides that he didn't really hit the road.   So I wouldn't be surprised (based just on the names out there) if the new assistant had recruiting as part of his responsibilities.
He still may be an x's and o's guy... but he might be asked to help out on the recruiting front as well.   Most assistants are.  Dunlap was somewhat of an exception.

Do you?
I don't and that's not a knock on Keady but the game isn't what it was when he coached.

A little off thread here but...

I was watching an HBO Real Sports segment with Phil Jackson over the weekend and they kind of asked if he thought the "game had passed him by".

He clearly didn't think so and I agree with him. I know the NBA & college games are completely different worlds but the game doesn't pass great basketball minds by and guys like Gene Keady are GREAT basketball minds. The basic foundation of the game are and always will be the same.

I think a guy like Abatemarco might be relied on for both the X's and O's as well as recruiting.  He has a ton of experience in several different facets of the game.  While he was only a HC for a short while and it wasn't a success, it doesn't mean that he doesn't know his basketball.

A little off thread here but...

I was watching an HBO Real Sports segment with Phil Jackson over the weekend and they kind of asked if he thought the "game had passed him by".

He clearly didn't think so and I agree with him. I know the NBA & college games are completely different worlds but the game doesn't pass great basketball minds by and guys like Gene Keady are GREAT basketball minds. The basic foundation of the game are and always will be the same.

How can you say that though when in that same interview he said how he watched the NHL playoffs more than the NBA playoffs because everything is just a pick and roll.  So based on that statement the game has changed and while passed him by might not be the correct terminology, the game is different and not for the better to some purists.

How can you say that though when in that same interview he said how he watched the NHL playoffs more than the NBA playoffs because everything is just a pick and roll.

Can say it very easily because its true, the game has not passed him by...

Pick & Roll - Pick & Pop (which is pretty much all NBA offense) has been part of hoops for decades and will always be there so its not anything new or inventive.

If everyone was succesfully running the speedball offense like D'Antoni & Popovich, then I might agree.

Can say it very easily because its true, the game has not passed him by...

Pick & Roll - Pick & Pop (which is pretty much all NBA offense) has been part of hoops for decades and will always be there so its not anything new or inventive.

If everyone was succesfully running the speedball offense like D'Antoni & Popovich, then I might agree.

We will have to agree to disagree.  While our ages differ I do think todays players have a much different mindset than the players Keady coached in the 80's.  And when I heard Phil Jackson say what he said, I did a double take.  He didn't seem like a guy happy with the direction of the League.  Could he still win? No question.  But he would have to find the exact player that he needed to adapt to his ideas.  And that is rare.

We will have to agree to disagree.  While our ages differ I do think todays players have a much different mindset than the players Keady coached in the 80's.  And when I heard Phil Jackson say what he said, I did a double take.  He didn't seem like a guy happy with the direction of the League.  Could he still win? No question.  But he would have to find the exact player that he needed to adapt to his ideas.  And that is rare.

Not being happy with what he is seeing and the game passing him by are two entirely different things.

He said something that was 1,000% accurate in that piece - "players need to be able to accept coaching and submit". The guy coached and won championships with three of the bigger ego maniacs (and supremely talented players) in the history of the league - MJ, Kobe & Shaq - his way works and always will...

Not being happy with what he is seeing and the game passing him by are two entirely different things.

He said something that was 1,000% accurate in that piece - "players need to be able to accept coaching and submit". The guy coached and won championships with three of the bigger ego maniacs (and supremely talented players) in the history of the league - MJ, Kobe & Shaq - his way works and always will...

To recap your right.  It does work, but it wont work with Melo and Amare like he said.  Only certain ppl.  And to clarify I don't think game has passed Phil by.  I do think to an extent its passed Keady by.  College and Pros apples and oranges, etc.  Keady is awesome asset as is.  Nothing more would makes sense IMO.  At that point we can refer back to those who mentioned bringing Louie back

Do you?
I don't and that's not a knock on Keady but the game isn't what it was when he coached.

A little off thread here but...

I was watching an HBO Real Sports segment with Phil Jackson over the weekend and they kind of asked if he thought the "game had passed him by".

He clearly didn't think so and I agree with him. I know the NBA & college games are completely different worlds but the game doesn't pass great basketball minds by and guys like Gene Keady are GREAT basketball minds. The basic foundation of the game are and always will be the same.

Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but really, how does the game "pass Keady by", when he's been IN the game the last two years here at St. Johns?

Quote from: pmg911 on June 27, 2012, 06:57:04 AM

Do you?
I don't and that's not a knock on Keady but the game isn't what it was when he coached.

A little off thread here but...

I was watching an HBO Real Sports segment with Phil Jackson over the weekend and they kind of asked if he thought the "game had passed him by".

He clearly didn't think so and I agree with him. I know the NBA & college games are completely different worlds but the game doesn't pass great basketball minds by and guys like Gene Keady are GREAT basketball minds. The basic foundation of the game are and always will be the same.

Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but really, how does the game "pass Keady by", when he's been IN the game the last two years here at St. Johns?

You honestly think Keady could be a full time assistant coach how many years removed from when he was?

The reason he took the job was it doesn't require his full time devotion.  He has limitations with working with the players and can only really work with the coaches.  I do think its different than his heyday.  While his last season was 2005 his last 5 yrs were pretty pedestrian to be nice.  Again its nice to have his name associated but he is extremely limited in what hes allowed to do by NCAA rules.

You made the original point about Keady being the answer maybe.  By saying I don't think he is I will take some heat, but I truly don't think he is that answer.

Quote from: crgreen on June 27, 2012, 04:46:29 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on June 27, 2012, 06:57:04 AM

Do you?
I don't and that's not a knock on Keady but the game isn't what it was when he coached.

A little off thread here but...

I was watching an HBO Real Sports segment with Phil Jackson over the weekend and they kind of asked if he thought the "game had passed him by".

He clearly didn't think so and I agree with him. I know the NBA & college games are completely different worlds but the game doesn't pass great basketball minds by and guys like Gene Keady are GREAT basketball minds. The basic foundation of the game are and always will be the same.

Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but really, how does the game "pass Keady by", when he's been IN the game the last two years here at St. Johns?

You honestly think Keady could be a full time assistant coach how many years removed from when he was?

The reason he took the job was it doesn't require his full time devotion.  He has limitations with working with the players and can only really work with the coaches.  I do think its different than his heyday.  While his last season was 2005 his last 5 yrs were pretty pedestrian to be nice.  Again its nice to have his name associated but he is extremely limited in what hes allowed to do by NCAA rules.

You made the original point about Keady being the answer maybe.  By saying I don't think he is I will take some heat, but I truly don't think he is that answer.

No, I didn't post he was "the answer, maybe".   I posited the question that if due to the lateness in the year, and the logistics of getting the "right" guy signed  (assuming the "right" guy actually HAS a job, and possesses the "loyalty" that Steve says is a MAJOR component of what he's looking for and needs to honor the current committment), if the process were to extend  to the end of the season, could Keady step in and temporarily change that "consultant" title to "assistant", and be allowed to be a hands on guy for 8 months if necessary.    He's a freaking hall of fame Xs and Os guy, who's spent almost every practice and every game the last two seasons with Dunlap.   

I don't think it WILL happen - I simply asked if it could.  The tenor changed when the discussion mutated from inclination & availability to COMPETENCE.

Quote from: Moose on June 27, 2012, 04:51:47 PM

Quote from: crgreen on June 27, 2012, 04:46:29 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on June 27, 2012, 06:57:04 AM

Do you?
I don't and that's not a knock on Keady but the game isn't what it was when he coached.

A little off thread here but...

I was watching an HBO Real Sports segment with Phil Jackson over the weekend and they kind of asked if he thought the "game had passed him by".

He clearly didn't think so and I agree with him. I know the NBA & college games are completely different worlds but the game doesn't pass great basketball minds by and guys like Gene Keady are GREAT basketball minds. The basic foundation of the game are and always will be the same.

Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but really, how does the game "pass Keady by", when he's been IN the game the last two years here at St. Johns?

You honestly think Keady could be a full time assistant coach how many years removed from when he was?

The reason he took the job was it doesn't require his full time devotion.  He has limitations with working with the players and can only really work with the coaches.  I do think its different than his heyday.  While his last season was 2005 his last 5 yrs were pretty pedestrian to be nice.  Again its nice to have his name associated but he is extremely limited in what hes allowed to do by NCAA rules.

You made the original point about Keady being the answer maybe.  By saying I don't think he is I will take some heat, but I truly don't think he is that answer.

No, I didn't post he was "the answer, maybe".   I posited the question that if due to the lateness in the year, and the logistics of getting the "right" guy signed  (assuming the "right" guy actually HAS a job, and possesses the "loyalty" that Steve says is a MAJOR component of what he's looking for and needs to honor the current committment), if the process were to extend  to the end of the season, could Keady step in and temporarily change that "consultant" title to "assistant", and be allowed to be a hands on guy for 8 months if necessary.    He's a freaking hall of fame Xs and Os guy, who's spent almost every practice and every game the last two seasons with Dunlap.   

I don't think it WILL happen - I simply asked if it could.  The tenor changed when the discussion mutated from inclination & availability to COMPETENCE.

Love your use of CAPITALIZING areas you felt the need to EMPHASIZE.......

Nobody said anything about competence.  I just pressed control F and never saw the word mentioned until you brought it up.  The game is different.  And very different for those who started coaching when Gene Keady did.  If you don't agree with that its simply naive then.  Is Gene Keady capable of being an assistant coach in 2012.  No I don't think he is.  He's an asset to us as the Don Zimmer at Steve's right hand.  Who can take copious notes and stats.  But he's not the guy you want grinding every single day in practice, and also recruiting even though Dunlap wasn't on the road that much.  That's my opinion on the matter.  You will presumably disagree.

This isn't late in the game.  Lavin will find the guy he wants.  Probably has him already.  Dunlap took awhile to come to fruition last year but meanwhile he was one of the first names mentioned.

By the way someone should update his Wiki page.  It says-

Born    May 21, 1636 (age 376)

Not to mention the fact that Keady is very happy doing what he is doing. He has the best of both worlds at this point in his life.

Quote from: crgreen on June 27, 2012, 05:05:10 PM

Quote from: Moose on June 27, 2012, 04:51:47 PM

Quote from: crgreen on June 27, 2012, 04:46:29 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on June 27, 2012, 06:57:04 AM

Do you?
I don't and that's not a knock on Keady but the game isn't what it was when he coached.

A little off thread here but...

I was watching an HBO Real Sports segment with Phil Jackson over the weekend and they kind of asked if he thought the "game had passed him by".

He clearly didn't think so and I agree with him. I know the NBA & college games are completely different worlds but the game doesn't pass great basketball minds by and guys like Gene Keady are GREAT basketball minds. The basic foundation of the game are and always will be the same.

Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but really, how does the game "pass Keady by", when he's been IN the game the last two years here at St. Johns?

You honestly think Keady could be a full time assistant coach how many years removed from when he was?

The reason he took the job was it doesn't require his full time devotion.  He has limitations with working with the players and can only really work with the coaches.  I do think its different than his heyday.  While his last season was 2005 his last 5 yrs were pretty pedestrian to be nice.  Again its nice to have his name associated but he is extremely limited in what hes allowed to do by NCAA rules.

You made the original point about Keady being the answer maybe.  By saying I don't think he is I will take some heat, but I truly don't think he is that answer.

No, I didn't post he was "the answer, maybe".   I posited the question that if due to the lateness in the year, and the logistics of getting the "right" guy signed  (assuming the "right" guy actually HAS a job, and possesses the "loyalty" that Steve says is a MAJOR component of what he's looking for and needs to honor the current committment), if the process were to extend  to the end of the season, could Keady step in and temporarily change that "consultant" title to "assistant", and be allowed to be a hands on guy for 8 months if necessary.    He's a freaking hall of fame Xs and Os guy, who's spent almost every practice and every game the last two seasons with Dunlap.   

I don't think it WILL happen - I simply asked if it could.  The tenor changed when the discussion mutated from inclination & availability to COMPETENCE.

Love your use of CAPITALIZING areas you felt the need to EMPHASIZE.......

Nobody said anything about competence.  I just pressed control F and never saw the word mentioned until you brought it up.  The game is different.  And very different for those who started coaching when Gene Keady did.  If you don't agree with that its simply naive then.  Is Gene Keady capable of being an assistant coach in 2012.  No I don't think he is.  He's an asset to us as the Don Zimmer at Steve's right hand.  Who can take copious notes and stats.  But he's not the guy you want grinding every single day in practice, and also recruiting even though Dunlap wasn't on the road that much.  That's my opinion on the matter.  You will presumably disagree.

This isn't late in the game.  Lavin will find the guy he wants.  Probably has him already.  Dunlap took awhile to come to fruition last year but meanwhile he was one of the first names mentioned.

Yes, it took 4 months to land Mike, AND HE DIDN'T HAVE A JOB, having been dropped by Oregon when Ernie Kent was fired at the end of the 2010 season.   If "the guy" is someone like Abatemarco, who has a job (and a contract), who knows. 

But really, all that was needed from the very start (response to the original post) was what you just posted above:  "Is Gene Keady capable of being an assistant coach in 2012.  No I don't think he is."    "The game has passed him by" opened up a whole other kettle of fish.    Surprised no one asked "what the heck are we doing haveing a guy for whom the "game has passed him by" consulting for our team?"   

By the way someone should update his Wiki page.  It says-

Born    May 21, 1636 (age 376)

That's the only thing odd you noticed about his wikipedia page Moose ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Keady

Quote from: Moose on June 27, 2012, 05:14:26 PM

Quote from: crgreen on June 27, 2012, 05:05:10 PM

Quote from: Moose on June 27, 2012, 04:51:47 PM

Quote from: crgreen on June 27, 2012, 04:46:29 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on June 27, 2012, 06:57:04 AM

Do you?
I don't and that's not a knock on Keady but the game isn't what it was when he coached.

A little off thread here but...

I was watching an HBO Real Sports segment with Phil Jackson over the weekend and they kind of asked if he thought the "game had passed him by".

He clearly didn't think so and I agree with him. I know the NBA & college games are completely different worlds but the game doesn't pass great basketball minds by and guys like Gene Keady are GREAT basketball minds. The basic foundation of the game are and always will be the same.

Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but really, how does the game "pass Keady by", when he's been IN the game the last two years here at St. Johns?

You honestly think Keady could be a full time assistant coach how many years removed from when he was?

The reason he took the job was it doesn't require his full time devotion.  He has limitations with working with the players and can only really work with the coaches.  I do think its different than his heyday.  While his last season was 2005 his last 5 yrs were pretty pedestrian to be nice.  Again its nice to have his name associated but he is extremely limited in what hes allowed to do by NCAA rules.

You made the original point about Keady being the answer maybe.  By saying I don't think he is I will take some heat, but I truly don't think he is that answer.

No, I didn't post he was "the answer, maybe".   I posited the question that if due to the lateness in the year, and the logistics of getting the "right" guy signed  (assuming the "right" guy actually HAS a job, and possesses the "loyalty" that Steve says is a MAJOR component of what he's looking for and needs to honor the current committment), if the process were to extend  to the end of the season, could Keady step in and temporarily change that "consultant" title to "assistant", and be allowed to be a hands on guy for 8 months if necessary.    He's a freaking hall of fame Xs and Os guy, who's spent almost every practice and every game the last two seasons with Dunlap.   

I don't think it WILL happen - I simply asked if it could.  The tenor changed when the discussion mutated from inclination & availability to COMPETENCE.

Love your use of CAPITALIZING areas you felt the need to EMPHASIZE.......

Nobody said anything about competence.  I just pressed control F and never saw the word mentioned until you brought it up.  The game is different.  And very different for those who started coaching when Gene Keady did.  If you don't agree with that its simply naive then.  Is Gene Keady capable of being an assistant coach in 2012.  No I don't think he is.  He's an asset to us as the Don Zimmer at Steve's right hand.  Who can take copious notes and stats.  But he's not the guy you want grinding every single day in practice, and also recruiting even though Dunlap wasn't on the road that much.  That's my opinion on the matter.  You will presumably disagree.

This isn't late in the game.  Lavin will find the guy he wants.  Probably has him already.  Dunlap took awhile to come to fruition last year but meanwhile he was one of the first names mentioned.

Yes, it took 4 months to land Mike, AND HE DIDN'T HAVE A JOB, having been dropped by Oregon when Ernie Kent was fired at the end of the 2010 season.   If "the guy" is someone like Abatemarco, who has a job (and a contract), who knows. 

But really, all that was needed from the very start (response to the original post) was what you just posted above:  "Is Gene Keady capable of being an assistant coach in 2012.  No I don't think he is."    "The game has passed him by" opened up a whole other kettle of fish.    Surprised no one asked "what the heck are we doing haveing a guy for whom the "game has passed him by" consulting for our team?"   

Or just don't overanalyze what I said

 I mean how many 76 yr olds are coaching full time.  Pretty basic idea.  Your saying the game has passed him by as an insult.  That just life though.  Baseball isn't what it was 20 yrs ago.  Pick any sport.  Any part of life for that matter.

Quote from: Moose on June 27, 2012, 05:18:10 PM

By the way someone should update his Wiki page.  It says-

Born    May 21, 1636 (age 376)

That's the only thing odd you noticed about his wikipedia page Moose ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Keady

The other stuff I expected to see.

Anyone who has ever had a mentor or been a mentor will understand what Coach Keady's role is with respect to Coach Lavin.  He will not be an assistant coach but he will be there to mentor and develop the current group of coaches and players.  In a sense he becomes a father like figure who can give advice and encouragement.  If he wanted to coach (and recruit), he would be doing it.  I think he has the best of all worlds right now.  He is involved with College BB, something he obviously loves, without all the headaches.  He can play golf from April to October, which is about the season in NY and not have to chase down recruits.  He can go to restaurants and theater.  Heck he can even meet someone--oh he did do that and got married.

i think most on the board would love to have Coach Keady's life when we reach his age.

Choz on the money re favorite choice Lav had and weekend visit! Way to go man!

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/staff_la_salle_coach_could_replace_dcobDvH7f6nJSy9Cq09F1H