Harrison Article

I dont think Hardy is any more athletic than D' lo is either


Good grief! Hardy jumped extremely high on his jumper could dunk and was the primary ball handler.

When did Hardy dunk?

You know it is possible to root for a player or a team w/o being blind to their deficiencies! I realize "fan" is short for fanatical but common sense is good too.

I'm constrained to point out that last year you thought Harrison couldn't shoot either. So it's possible to imagine deficiencies as well, especially for someone who is seemingly only happy when the glass is half full. I'll tell you who Harrison is more athletic than: Mark Jackson. He's about the same size as MJ. Except perhaps for his handle he's infinitely more skilled on the offensive end than MJ was as a freshman. He doesn't have MJ's giant ass but he's at least as strong as MJ was as a frosh, who if mammary serves was a stringbean as a freshman. Yes he doesn't have the experience playing the point and no I'm not making a direct comparison but from what I saw last year DH has great vision and a great court sense and perhaps most importantly he has fire in his belly. He has the skills to be as good a PG as a soph as David Cain was as a senior.

I dont think Hardy is any more athletic than D' lo is either


Good grief! Hardy jumped extremely high on his jumper could dunk and was the primary ball handler.

Hardy never dunked in a St. Johns Jersey. "Extremely" is quite an exaggeration. What does him being the primary ball handler have to do with the athleticism argument?

 I thought someone mentioned that Harrison did actually grow a little in the off season?

 I think it foolish to write someone off as an NBA player after one season of college ball.  Let's see how he improves year to year before we all turn into wanna be NBA general managers.  Everyone is so certain he won't make it, I say why not?

 If Steve Kerr can play in the NBA as 6'3 shooter with no athletic ability, so can D-lo if he continues to work.
 

I thought someone mentioned that Harrison did actually grow a little in the off season?

 I think it foolish to write someone off as an NBA player after one season of college ball.  Let's see how he improves year to year before we all turn into wanna be NBA general managers.  Everyone is so certain he won't make it, I say why not?

 If Steve Kerr can play in the NBA as 6'3 shooter with no athletic ability, so can D-lo if he continues to work.

I'm a big fan of D'lo.  One of those who beleives he'll be an NBA player.  But.. "IF Steve Kerr can play in the NBA"??    D'lo so far is a  37% FG Shooter, 36% 3pt shooter, who's dished 69 assists as a collegiate starter.  Steve Kerr was a 3 year starter, who shot an ungodly (for a guard) 55% from the field, and an even more ungodly 57%(!!) on 3s.  He dished  an average of 140 asssists a year as a starter, including 150 as a senior, as he took his team to the Final Four.  His 45.4% career 3pt shooting in a 15 year NBA career is STILL #1 all time.   

Kerr is a HORRIBLE example of a guy for whom "if HE can do it, anyone can"......

 Steve Kerr averaged 11pts ands 3 assists a game in his ENTIRE college career.   Clearly, he was a can't miss nba stud.

 No sure why you are quoting your last statement. Those  are your words, not mine.  I said they were the same height and didn't have much athletic ability. No need to get all stat-ty on me. I said if he continues to work he will make it.

 What did i say that was wrong again?

Steve Kerr was Baby Jordan and Buckets was Jerry Stack.... Lordy what's this board comin to?

Steve Kerr was Baby Jordan and Buckets was Jerry Stack.... Lordy what's this board comin to?

No, just that there's a huge difference between D'lo, and a 57% collegiate 3pt shooter/BEST 3pt shooter in NBA history.   Kerr was destined for the NBA and to stick because he had a skill level D'lo has yet to approach, and (given Steve's all time #1 ranking) likely never will - Same skill that got Kapono, Tony Bennett, Steve Novak and any number of unathletic players into the league.    And again, Steve had 150 assists taking his team to the Final four.   Can D'lo dish that many? I don't know.   St. Johns LEADERS for the past decade - its been done once:

2002:  Marcus Hatton - 143
2003:  Marcus Hatton - 138
2004:  Daryll Hill  - 101
2005:  Eugene Lawrence - 105
2006:  Eugene Lawrence -132
2007:  Eugene Lawrence - 173
2008:  Eugene Lawrence - 110
2009:  Malik Boothe - 109
2010:  DJ Kennedy - 102
2011:  Malik Boothe - 93
2012:  Phile Greene  - 95

Sorry, bit defensive about Kerr - I've known him since before he was a ball boy at Pauley Pavillion, and his father (the late Malcolm Kerr, former chair of Political Science Dept. at UCLA, and assassinated in Beirut in 1984 - Steves frosh year at Arizona)  was a terrific friend and teacher...If I misread the original comment as a a "potshot", I apologize.

Don't forget CR, that when Eugene played, he was loading up on an unusual amount of cup cakes in Nov and Dec.
Once on a while he was able to make an impact against a BE team.

The best PG in that group was actually Hatten. Had he been given more to work with, he'd have had more assists. That group, if you guys recall, couldn't score. They couldn't finish anything.

Steve Kerr was a great shooter, no doubt. 

But hells, 150 assists dishin to Sean Elliot aint nuthin to brag about.

Steve Kerr was a great shooter, no doubt. 

But hells, 150 assists dishin to Sean Elliot aint nuthin to brag about.

One of many reasons why stats alone never tell the whole story. That PG on NC averaged a ton dimes last year. Was he the best PG in the nation?

Steve Kerr was a great shooter, no doubt. 

But hells, 150 assists dishin to Sean Elliot aint nuthin to brag about.

Better than Malik leading with 93 dishing to Hardy and DJ  

Bit of Trivia - Kerr's backup at PG on that Final Four team was Kenny Lofton - one of only two players to play in an NCAA final four, and a Major League World Series (and no, the other one ISN'T from UCLA).

Malik and Hardy had help. Often it was a different player who's key contribution carried us. With Hatten, he was it. It's a lot harder to get an assist, when you have no one to give the ball to.

Quote from: Choz4Life on September 25, 2012, 08:10:26 AM

Steve Kerr was a great shooter, no doubt. 

But hells, 150 assists dishin to Sean Elliot aint nuthin to brag about.

One of many reasons why stats alone never tell the whole story. That PG on NC averaged a ton dimes last year. Was he the best PG in the nation?

Depends who you ask.   Kendall Marshall did win the Bob Cousy award as Best PG last year, over Lilliard, Teague, and Machado.

Probably a better example would be ESPN analyst Doug Gottleib - an assist machine (942 over 4 years), but one of the worst players ever, and most definately the worst shooter - career 36% FG, 24% 3pts, and 46% FREE THROWS...ouch.

I'm constrained to point out that last year you thought Harrison couldn't shoot either. So it's possible to imagine deficiencies as well, especially for someone who is seemingly only happy when the glass is half full. I'll tell you who Harrison is more athletic than: Mark Jackson. He's about the same size as MJ. Except perhaps for his handle he's infinitely more skilled on the offensive end than MJ was as a freshman. He doesn't have MJ's giant ass but he's at least as strong as MJ was as a frosh, who if mammary serves was a stringbean as a freshman. Yes he doesn't have the experience playing the point and no I'm not making a direct comparison but from what I saw last year DH has great vision and a great court sense and perhaps most importantly he has fire in his belly. He has the skills to be as good a PG as a soph as David Cain was as a senior.


I still don't think Harrison is a good shooter. Your buddy Stat Page agrees with me. Harrison is a very good scorer and is very crafty. He is a very good college basketball player. I just don't see him having the athleticism to play shooting guard( his you know position) in the pros. As far as any comparison to Mark Jackson, that is just silly and I am honestly surprised at you. Point guards, true point guards are born. They do not develop after their freshman year. Could Harrison handle the point at times in college? Yeah sure, but I am pretty sure Branch was brought in to handle that spot.
Tell me some successful college two guards that were able to play the point in the pros.You might come up with a couple like Curry but for the most part it does not work.

Depends who you ask.   Kendall Marshall did win the Bob Cousy award as Best PG last year, over Lilliard, Teague, and Machado.

Probably a better example would be ESPN analyst Doug Gottleib - an assist machine (942 over 4 years), but one of the worst players ever, and most definately the worst shooter - career 36% FG, 24% 3pts, and 46% FREE THROWS...ouch.

Other than that Gottlieb was a three time all big 12 honorable mention selection, led O State to the NCAA tournament for three years including an elite 8 appearance, is in the top 10 career all time in assists in the NCAA, can you explain why he was one of the worst players in the history of organized basketball and especially why he was more awful than Paul Berwanger and Hernel Robertson? TIA.

Interesting story about Gottlieb. He was heavily recruited by UCLA and chose Notre Dame and then after he was expelled from ND he was heavily recruited by UCLA and chose Oklahoma State. I don't particularly understand why UCLA would twice recruit one of the worst players ever in the history of basketball but imagine it from Gottlieb's POV. You have a choice between Jim Harrick, one of the most corrupt and repulsive persons ever to coach college basketball OTOH and OTO Eddie Sutton, one of the most corrupt and repulsive persons to ever coach college basketball and you yourself are a convicted reprobate. It's kind of like the Wizard of Oz in reverse - you're at Notre Dame, the emerald city, and then all of a sudden you get whooshed into a tornado of suck and are desposited in Oklahoma.

I'm constrained to point out that last year you thought Harrison couldn't shoot either. So it's possible to imagine deficiencies as well, especially for someone who is seemingly only happy when the glass is half full. I'll tell you who Harrison is more athletic than: Mark Jackson. He's about the same size as MJ. Except perhaps for his handle he's infinitely more skilled on the offensive end than MJ was as a freshman. He doesn't have MJ's giant ass but he's at least as strong as MJ was as a frosh, who if mammary serves was a stringbean as a freshman. Yes he doesn't have the experience playing the point and no I'm not making a direct comparison but from what I saw last year DH has great vision and a great court sense and perhaps most importantly he has fire in his belly. He has the skills to be as good a PG as a soph as David Cain was as a senior.


I still don't think Harrison is a good shooter. Your buddy Stat Page agrees with me. Harrison is a very good scorer and is very crafty. He is a very good college basketball player. I just don't see him having the athleticism to play shooting guard( his you know position) in the pros. As far as any comparison to Mark Jackson, that is just silly and I am honestly surprised at you. Point guards, true point guards are born. They do not develop after their freshman year. Could Harrison handle the point at times in college? Yeah sure, but I am pretty sure Branch was brought in to handle that spot.
Tell me some successful college two guards that were able to play the point in the pros.You might come up with a couple like Curry but for the most part it does not work.

1. Harrison shot 36 percent from 3 as a freshman. The best all time 3 point shooters at SJ shot around 40 percent. Boo Harvey shot around 38 percent as a 35 year old senior. With any help at all, meaning he doesn't have to throw up 3s with 2 seconds on the clock because the rest of them are so inept, he'll be around 40 percent this year.

2. I didn't make a comparison - you could tell that from where I said "I'm not making a ... comparison." You said DH wasn't athletic enough to play the point in the NBA and I pointed out a SJU player who had a long NBA career despite being slow as molasses and not able to jump over a pencil.

3. TGAPL said in the article that Harrison is his starting PG and would be his PG even if Branch was eligible. So he's the starting PG.

4. Everyone is made into what they are. Point guards. Concert pianists. Mass murders. DNA is silly putty, environment is a hammer. Even the stupidest mule will learn to pull the plow if beaten righteously enough.

Jackson was not quick or fast. Misnomer about the jumping though. While I thought I recalled Hardy dunking on a few breakaways and he certainly elevated very high on his jumper I can't recall a specific dunk of his. Jackson on the other hand dunked frequently in college and in the pros. In fact I had a poster in HS of Jackson dunking on Ron Anderson of the 76ers in the playoffs. But even if he had Harrison hops and couldn't dunk Jackson had a specific skill that you can't develop in court vision and passing. Harrison does not have that and it really can't be taught.

On last thought on Harrison. I like the kid and unless one of the Frosh or Juco's grab my attention he is my favorite player. I don't want to disparage him. As far as his shooting his shot is just not a classic jumper. Generally the better the competition and athleticism the harder it is to get a push shot off. Though Steve Kerr shot one and that is not a bad comparison to whoever brought his name up.  Just becuase I don't think he will make the pros has nothing to do with him at ST John's. My all time favorite basketball player's game did not translate well to the pros, Walter Berry.

Mark is a classic example of what someone can accomplish without the stereotypical athletic superstar talents that the NBA covets.  He was above all a basketball player and that's what I see in DLo.  Comparisons are dangerous and statistics often don't tell the whole story especially where PGs are concerned.  After only one year though I'd take DLo over a 2G like Joe Dumars and look at what he did.  The NBA is hardly a bastion of hoops logic and all the good kids playing elsewhere should attest to that.  There are so many factors that go into the draft it's immpossible to predict DLo's fate at this point.  As a big fan however all I can say that if they overlook this kid it's their (and the fan's ) loss.

Probably a better example would be ESPN analyst Doug Gottleib - an assist machine (942 over 4 years), but one of the worst players ever, and most definately the worst shooter - career 36% FG, 24% 3pts, and 46% FREE THROWS...ouch.

Just imagine how big a dick he'd be if his shooting stats were good.