Starting line up predictions:

Greene and GG are backups, even if they improved from last year. If they're starting for most of the year or playing starter minutes then the team isnt going anywhere.

Theyll put up decent to good numbers against sub par opponents, but you dont want them both starting and playing starter minutes against the big east.

At most they should be getting 15 minutes a game.

I don't agree with you reagrding Greene, he is not a full time point guard, he is a combo guard who will score points as the third guard. I can see him averaging close to 9 points in 20-22 minutes of play. He was never recruited to be our starting PG as a freshman.

Quote from: redstorming on October 05, 2012, 10:50:26 AM

Greene and GG are backups, even if they improved from last year. If they're starting for most of the year or playing starter minutes then the team isnt going anywhere.

Theyll put up decent to good numbers against sub par opponents, but you dont want them both starting and playing starter minutes against the big east.

At most they should be getting 15 minutes a game.

I don't agree with you reagrding Greene, he is not a full time point guard, he is a combo guard who will score points as the third guard. I can see him averaging close to 9 points in 20-22 minutes of play. He was never recruited to be our starting PG as a freshman.

Excactly. He isnt a point guard or a shooting guard. He can backup both spots, but with the depth of our team now he shouldnt be getting that many minutes at either spot. Maybe early on he gets more , but once Branch is playing and the newcomers adjust he should be getting for sure less then 10 minutes at both spots. If hes getting more then itll say alot about all the newcomers.

Greene and GG are backups, even if they improved from last year. If they're starting for most of the year or playing starter minutes then the team isnt going anywhere.

Theyll put up decent to good numbers against sub par opponents, but you dont want them both starting and playing starter minutes against the big east.

At most they should be getting 15 minutes a game.

I think when Gift can be a center he'll play.  Although he can run the court I didn't see many forward attributes last year.  Greene just has major stones and athleticism and would help any team under the right circumstances.  He's way more than a bench fill in guy.  Same story on Dom and Amir and that's why we're going to shock the prognosticators.  Top to bottom we're so talented and ballsy it's going to be a great season.

phil green never flinched after he had to assume the point guard duties last december after the lindsey fiasco.  a raw feshman with the heart of a lion.  he will continue to be an integral part of our oncoming success and deserves nothing less than our support.

The number 2 pick in the nba draft started the year last year not starting, guys who need to start will eventually make it obvious they need to start and then adjustments will be made

i'm not going to be surprised if during the first few games with see massive 5 men substitutions.

phil green never flinched after he had to assume the point guard duties last december after the lindsey fiasco.  a raw feshman with the heart of a lion.  he will continue to be an integral part of our oncoming success and deserves nothing less than our support.

 Plus he's had all off season to work on his weaknesses and he seems to be a tireless worker from what I've seen/ heard/ read.  No reason his point guard and shooting skills can't take a major leap from Freshman to Soph seasons.

Quote from: Marillac on October 05, 2012, 01:39:04 AM

Obekpa is getting a lot of love.  I really like the kid, and I think he can be a monster defensively in this zone in time, but the kid is a boy compared to some of the men on the roster.  Obekpa turned 17 this year, right?  Sanchez is 24 with two years of experience at JUCO and a few summers of playing with professionals in FIBA.  GG is 22 or so with three years of college experience. 

Obekpa is young and raw...I don't see more than a 10-15 mpg for him this year with all of the older and more polished kids ahead of him.

You really think a consensus top 70 recruit - a 6'9 GREAT shotbocker - is only going to get 10 minutes a game on a team that won only 14 games last year?  Wow.

Yes.  He's incredibly raw and thin as a rail.  I think his ceiling is very high, but freshman bigs almost always need a few years.  He's the same size as Sanchez, but doesn't have anywhere near the experience, age, physical maturity, or skill at this point.  It really just comes down to 17 vs. 24:  boy v. man. 

Agree wholeheartedly with Marillac on that point.  Moose has mentioned that too in preaching patience for CO's development (citing the leap made by Dieng at Lousville and others, who went from minimal/low contributors as a frosh to premier players/defenders).  Our roster is pretty young, so I think CO will get more time as a frosh then he would if we had a front court with 20-22 year old juniors and seniors, but we should be patient with his development as a fan base.

Quote from: crgreen on October 05, 2012, 02:00:01 AM

Quote from: Marillac on October 05, 2012, 01:39:04 AM

Obekpa is getting a lot of love.  I really like the kid, and I think he can be a monster defensively in this zone in time, but the kid is a boy compared to some of the men on the roster.  Obekpa turned 17 this year, right?  Sanchez is 24 with two years of experience at JUCO and a few summers of playing with professionals in FIBA.  GG is 22 or so with three years of college experience. 

Obekpa is young and raw...I don't see more than a 10-15 mpg for him this year with all of the older and more polished kids ahead of him.

You really think a consensus top 70 recruit - a 6'9 GREAT shotbocker - is only going to get 10 minutes a game on a team
that won only 14 games last year?  Wow.

Yes.  He's incredibly raw and thin as a rail.  I think his ceiling is very high, but freshman bigs almost always need a few years.  He's the same size as Sanchez, but doesn't have anywhere near the experience, age, physical maturity, or skill at this point.  It really just comes down to 17 vs. 24:  boy v. man. 

I agree. These ranking are based on ceiling, not immediate impact. A lot of us, myself included forget that. Pointer was actually our top recruit last year.

pure speculation on my part, but i see CO as the tenth man in our rotation, seeing very little action.  i see sanchez and gg getting most of the minutes at center, with pointer and sammy playing the four.  at least that's what i'm hoping.  i actually prefer pointer at the four, where he is not responsible for stretching the defense with his lack of range.  instead, he will cause the other team severe match up problems with his quickness.  and we would have a super quick team on the break and on defense.

Quote from: Marillac on October 05, 2012, 07:23:04 PM

Quote from: crgreen on October 05, 2012, 02:00:01 AM

Quote from: Marillac on October 05, 2012, 01:39:04 AM

Obekpa is getting a lot of love.  I really like the kid, and I think he can be a monster defensively in this zone in time, but the kid is a boy compared to some of the men on the roster.  Obekpa turned 17 this year, right?  Sanchez is 24 with two years of experience at JUCO and a few summers of playing with professionals in FIBA.  GG is 22 or so with three years of college experience. 

Obekpa is young and raw...I don't see more than a 10-15 mpg for him this year with all of the older and more polished kids ahead of him.

You really think a consensus top 70 recruit - a 6'9 GREAT shotbocker - is only going to get 10 minutes a game on a team
that won only 14 games last year?  Wow.

Yes.  He's incredibly raw and thin as a rail.  I think his ceiling is very high, but freshman bigs almost always need a few years.  He's the same size as Sanchez, but doesn't have anywhere near the experience, age, physical maturity, or skill at this point.  It really just comes down to 17 vs. 24:  boy v. man. 

I agree. These ranking are based on ceiling, not immediate impact. A lot of us, myself included forget that. Pointer was actually our top recruit last year.

Along those lines I expect Dom to have a breakout year wherever he plays.  This is a guy I wouldn't want to lose due to a lack of minutes so I look for Lavin to create ways to use him to win games.  Not many defenders as good as him out there.

Quote from: Poison on October 06, 2012, 07:56:01 AM

Quote from: Marillac on October 05, 2012, 07:23:04 PM

Quote from: crgreen on October 05, 2012, 02:00:01 AM

Quote from: Marillac on October 05, 2012, 01:39:04 AM

Obekpa is getting a lot of love.  I really like the kid, and I think he can be a monster defensively in this zone in time, but the kid is a boy compared to some of the men on the roster.  Obekpa turned 17 this year, right?  Sanchez is 24 with two years of experience at JUCO and a few summers of playing with professionals in FIBA.  GG is 22 or so with three years of college experience. 

Obekpa is young and raw...I don't see more than a 10-15 mpg for him this year with all of the older and more polished kids ahead of him.

You really think a consensus top 70 recruit - a 6'9 GREAT shotbocker - is only going to get 10 minutes a game on a team
that won only 14 games last year?  Wow.

Yes.  He's incredibly raw and thin as a rail.  I think his ceiling is very high, but freshman bigs almost always need a few years.  He's the same size as Sanchez, but doesn't have anywhere near the experience, age, physical maturity, or skill at this point.  It really just comes down to 17 vs. 24:  boy v. man. 

I agree. These ranking are based on ceiling, not immediate impact. A lot of us, myself included forget that. Pointer was actually our top recruit last year.

Along those lines I expect Dom to have a breakout year wherever he plays.  This is a guy I wouldn't want to lose due to a lack of minutes so I look for Lavin to create ways to use him to win games.  Not many defenders as good as him out there.

Buddy snuck a laptop in to me here in the hospital!

I imagine Lav's uses him similar to Ryan Hollins as a frosh for him at UCLA - He had top 100 center Mike Fey, Top 25 PF TJ Cummings,  #28 Dijon Thompson, and  #31 Andre Patterson up front (Fey, Patterson & Cummings would all be 15pt 7 reb guys in the D-League, Thompson would reach the NBA) - Tho Unranked, Lavs got Hollins 17 minutes a game,  including 15 starts, and Playing time at both C and PF.    5pts 4rebs, 2nd on the team in blocks.  Led the team in FG% at 59.4%.

We DON'T have a higher ranked prospect at his position  - so I think he gets more minutes than that.

Quote from: bobre45 on October 06, 2012, 10:19:55 AM

Quote from: Poison on October 06, 2012, 07:56:01 AM

Quote from: Marillac on October 05, 2012, 07:23:04 PM

Quote from: crgreen on October 05, 2012, 02:00:01 AM

Quote from: Marillac on October 05, 2012, 01:39:04 AM

Obekpa is getting a lot of love.  I really like the kid, and I think he can be a monster defensively in this zone in time, but the kid is a boy compared to some of the men on the roster.  Obekpa turned 17 this year, right?  Sanchez is 24 with two years of experience at JUCO and a few summers of playing with professionals in FIBA.  GG is 22 or so with three years of college experience. 

Obekpa is young and raw...I don't see more than a 10-15 mpg for him this year with all of the older and more polished kids ahead of him.

You really think a consensus top 70 recruit - a 6'9 GREAT shotbocker - is only going to get 10 minutes a game on a team
that won only 14 games last year?  Wow.

Yes.  He's incredibly raw and thin as a rail.  I think his ceiling is very high, but freshman bigs almost always need a few years.  He's the same size as Sanchez, but doesn't have anywhere near the experience, age, physical maturity, or skill at this point.  It really just comes down to 17 vs. 24:  boy v. man. 

I agree. These ranking are based on ceiling, not immediate impact. A lot of us, myself included forget that. Pointer was actually our top recruit last year.

Along those lines I expect Dom to have a breakout year wherever he plays.  This is a guy I wouldn't want to lose due to a lack of minutes so I look for Lavin to create ways to use him to win games.  Not many defenders as good as him out there.

Buddy snuck a laptop in to me here in the hospital!

I imagine Lav's uses him similar to Ryan Hollins as a frosh for him at UCLA - He had top 100 center Mike Fey, Top 25 PF TJ Cummings,  #28 Dijon Thompson, and  #31 Andre Patterson up front (Fey, Patterson & Cummings would all be 15pt 7 reb guys in the D-League, Thompson would reach the NBA) - Tho Unranked, Lavs got Hollins 17 minutes a game,  including 15 starts, and Playing time at both C and PF.    5pts 4rebs, 2nd on the team in blocks.  Led the team in FG% at 59.4%.

We DON'T have a higher ranked prospect at his position  - so I think he gets more minutes than that.

We dont have a higher ranked prospect at any position. RE: CO I think as the season progresses you ll see him getting more minutes. By Jan I think he will be a major contributer and see him getting more minutes then Gift.

Quote from: redstorming on October 05, 2012, 10:50:26 AM

Greene and GG are backups, even if they improved from last year. If they're starting for most of the year or playing starter minutes then the team isnt going anywhere.

Theyll put up decent to good numbers against sub par opponents, but you dont want them both starting and playing starter minutes against the big east.

At most they should be getting 15 minutes a game.

I don't agree with you reagrding Greene, he is not a full time point guard, he is a combo guard who will score points as the third guard. I can see him averaging close to 9 points in 20-22 minutes of play. He was never recruited to be our starting PG as a freshman.

Completely agree.  Phil Greene and GG should never be paired like that.  Greene is a huge player for us the next three years.  I see Phil at the same stats you placed him at, but I would not be shocked at all if someone told me know that he'd be our second leading scorer. 

Quote from: crgreen on October 06, 2012, 01:43:54 PM

Quote from: bobre45 on October 06, 2012, 10:19:55 AM

Quote from: Poison on October 06, 2012, 07:56:01 AM

Quote from: Marillac on October 05, 2012, 07:23:04 PM

Quote from: crgreen on October 05, 2012, 02:00:01 AM

Quote from: Marillac on October 05, 2012, 01:39:04 AM

Obekpa is getting a lot of love.  I really like the kid, and I think he can be a monster defensively in this zone in time, but the kid is a boy compared to some of the men on the roster.  Obekpa turned 17 this year, right?  Sanchez is 24 with two years of experience at JUCO and a few summers of playing with professionals in FIBA.  GG is 22 or so with three years of college experience. 

Obekpa is young and raw...I don't see more than a 10-15 mpg for him this year with all of the older and more polished kids ahead of him.

You really think a consensus top 70 recruit - a 6'9 GREAT shotbocker - is only going to get 10 minutes a game on a team
that won only 14 games last year?  Wow.

Yes.  He's incredibly raw and thin as a rail.  I think his ceiling is very high, but freshman bigs almost always need a few years.  He's the same size as Sanchez, but doesn't have anywhere near the experience, age, physical maturity, or skill at this point.  It really just comes down to 17 vs. 24:  boy v. man. 

I agree. These ranking are based on ceiling, not immediate impact. A lot of us, myself included forget that. Pointer was actually our top recruit last year.

Along those lines I expect Dom to have a breakout year wherever he plays.  This is a guy I wouldn't want to lose due to a lack of minutes so I look for Lavin to create ways to use him to win games.  Not many defenders as good as him out there.

Buddy snuck a laptop in to me here in the hospital!

I imagine Lav's uses him similar to Ryan Hollins as a frosh for him at UCLA - He had top 100 center Mike Fey, Top 25 PF TJ Cummings,  #28 Dijon Thompson, and  #31 Andre Patterson up front (Fey, Patterson & Cummings would all be 15pt 7 reb guys in the D-League, Thompson would reach the NBA) - Tho Unranked, Lavs got Hollins 17 minutes a game,  including 15 starts, and Playing time at both C and PF.    5pts 4rebs, 2nd on the team in blocks.  Led the team in FG% at 59.4%.

We DON'T have a higher ranked prospect at his position  - so I think he gets more minutes than that.

We dont have a higher ranked prospect at any position. RE: CO I think as the season progresses you ll see him getting more minutes. By Jan I think he will be a major contributer and see him getting more minutes then Gift.

If Obekpa is quick to learn where he needs to rotate to in our zone - then he'll play big minutes.   That'll be the biggest key.  He's raw offensively, but I think the coaches will live with that in exchange for his shot blocking and rebounding.    What will get real frustrating for them (and us) is if teams swing the ball around the perimeter and he's slow to go from the weakside block to guard a guy who's alone in the corner.   
The past two years our "big men" have had very flat learning curves ,on this topic, from Oct to January.    See Evans and Burrell two years ago, and Gift and Moe even last fall.   
Not and easy thing to learn, you gotta anticipate, and have quick feet.   

But mark my word... that's gonna be what determines how much we see Chris O.   


(an illustration of my point, and Gift's struggles with it early last season... this has been recycled, but it's good http://hoopspeak.com/college/2011/11/whats-wrong-with-st-johns-zone-defense/)

pure speculation on my part, but i see CO as the tenth man in our rotation, seeing very little action.  i see sanchez and gg getting most of the minutes at center, with pointer and sammy playing the four.  at least that's what i'm hoping.  i actually prefer pointer at the four, where he is not responsible for stretching the defense with his lack of range.  instead, he will cause the other team severe match up problems with his quickness.  and we would have a super quick team on the break and on defense.

He might be 10th at first, but when SU, Georgetown and Louisville are dunking on us at will, someone will come off the bench and put a stop to it.

Also, barring dramatic improvement, GG isn't good enough to start at center. He lost his job last year to Garrett, so wouldn't we think that Garrett is still
ahead of him on the depth chart? That said, this is a test for GG, and it's a test for our staff. We know he's smart. So maybe he's returned from the summer ready?

Quote from: stormwarning on October 06, 2012, 10:11:13 AM

pure speculation on my part, but i see CO as the tenth man in our rotation, seeing very little action.  i see sanchez and gg getting most of the minutes at center, with pointer and sammy playing the four.  at least that's what i'm hoping.  i actually prefer pointer at the four, where he is not responsible for stretching the defense with his lack of range.  instead, he will cause the other team severe match up problems with his quickness.  and we would have a super quick team on the break and on defense.

He might be 10th at first, but when SU, Georgetown and Louisville are dunking on us at will, someone will come off the bench and put a stop to it.

Also, barring dramatic improvement, GG isn't good enough to start at center. He lost his job last year to Garrett, so wouldn't we think that Garrett is still
ahead of him on the depth chart? That said, this is a test for GG, and it's a test for our staff. We know he's smart. So maybe he's returned from the summer ready?

Doesn't really work that way - not a 1 for 1 deal.   The decision was,  Mo/Garrett a more effective combo up front than GG/Mo or GG/Amir.   And Mo is gone, and practice hasn't even begun yet.   Yet to find out if  Jakarr/Garrett, or Sanchez/Garrett, or Obekpa/Garrett or Obekpa/Sanchez, or Obekpa/Jakarr, or Sanchez/Jakarr  are better than GG/Garrett, or GG/Jakarr,  or GG/Sanchez, or GG/Obekpa.      Heck, maybe Christian Jones works HIS way into the equation as well!  (Steve's had  unranked frosh beat out "name recruits - even program  veterens" before - ie., Earl Watson).   Steve truly does let the players decide in practice and early games.  Your rep and ranking may have GOTTEN you here, but starting and PT will be EARNED on the practice and game courts....

I want to like Gift's game more than I do bec I like Gift. Still, it is not an unfair point to say that he was lost against top competition. Garrett may have only been playing in high school, but he was prepared for high major D1 BBall. Gift wasn't.

I want to like Gift's game more than I do bec I like Gift. Still, it is not an unfair point to say that he was lost against top competition. Garrett may have only been playing in high school, but he was prepared for high major D1 BBall. Gift wasn't.

Except, of sourse, for his 18 pt 10 reb performance against National Champion Kentucky. His 16 pt 5 reb game vs #9 UConn.  His 20 pt 7 reb game vs #24 Marquette.   His 17 pt game against Pitt.  His 12 rebound game against Pitt....   

An up and down year.  That's what you HOPE a 2nd year in the program corrects.