Around Big East

Do you think the big east is a top 10 conference? I do, but barely.

It is top 6 by all measurements.  Even if you use NCAA bids last year as your sole metric, only 5 conferences put more teams in (in absolute terms, not as percentage of conference membership).  You are the only poster to repeat this over and over again, and your agenda is obvious.  I am absolutely fine with a conference that is 6th in the country in a "down" year.

Do you think the big east is a top 10 conference? I do, but barely.

I made a chart for the 10 best conferences (the 10 multi-bid leagues) using % tourney teams, Conference RPI, RPI sub-150 teams (cupcake wins), and the conference record in NCAA tourney (win %).  I then awarded points on a 1-10 scale for each conference's ranking in each category.  These were the results:

1. Big 10 - 36.5 pts
2. Big 12 - 31.5
3. Pac 12 -30
4. SEC - 23.5
5. Big East - 22
6. ACC - 21
7. AAC - 19.5
8. A-10 - 17.5
9. MWC - 12
10. WCC - 6.5

For the most part that's how I see it.  The biggest surprise to me was the SEC and the A-10.  The SEC performed well in the tourney and only had two sub150 teams, while the A-10 had a poor tourney showing and had the second most sub150 teams.  5, 6, and 7 are pretty interchangeable - especially if you're in the crowd who thinks SMU was snubbed.  I'd post the chart but it was handwritten and i feel like it'd be a pain in the ass to post.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 09:10:07 AM

Do you think the big east is a top 10 conference? I do, but barely.

It is top 6 by all measurements.  Even if you use NCAA bids last year as your sole metric, only 5 conferences put more teams in (in absolute terms, not as percentage of conference membership).  You are the only poster to repeat this over and over again, and your agenda is obvious.  I am absolutely fine with a conference that is 6th in the country in a "down" year.

So you think the conference will be better this year?

Fwiw, I would have the Big East at 8

Not that it matters, because I just want to see SJU play well.  I would be fine if we became Gonzaga or Witchita State of the east coast.     It's nice if the conference is good, but that's not my priority.
That said I think the BE is about tied with the AAC for 6th.  With Lousiville leaving the AAC, they won't be tied for long.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 09:10:07 AM

Do you think the big east is a top 10 conference? I do, but barely.

I made a chart for the 10 best conferences (the 10 multi-bid leagues) using % tourney teams, Conference RPI, RPI sub-150 teams (cupcake wins), and the conference record in NCAA tourney (win %).  I then awarded points on a 1-10 scale for each conference's ranking in each category.  These were the results:

1. Big 10 - 36.5 pts
2. Big 12 - 31.5
3. Pac 12 -30
4. SEC - 23.5
5. Big East - 22
6. ACC - 21
7. AAC - 19.5
8. A-10 - 17.5
9. MWC - 12
10. WCC - 6.5

For the most part that's how I see it.  The biggest surprise to me was the SEC and the A-10.  The SEC performed well in the tourney and only had two sub150 teams, while the A-10 had a poor tourney showing and had the second most sub150 teams.  5, 6, and 7 are pretty interchangeable - especially if you're in the crowd who thinks SMU was snubbed.  I'd post the chart but it was handwritten and i feel like it'd be a pain in the ass to post.

thats great work logan!

Not that it matters, because I just want to see SJU play well.  I would be fine if we became Gonzaga or Witchita State of the east coast.     It's nice if the conference is good, but that's not my priority.
That said I think the BE is about tied with the AAC for 6th.  With Lousiville leaving the AAC, they won't be tied for long.

I suppose, gun to my head, I'd accept the lowly accomplishments of Wichita State or Gonzaga as our own.

Do you think ? I do, but barely.

Hey Marco, I fixed your post for you. 

Quote from: Gray Chudney on June 09, 2014, 09:54:33 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 09:10:07 AM

Do you think the big east is a top 10 conference? I do, but barely.

It is top 6 by all measurements.  Even if you use NCAA bids last year as your sole metric, only 5 conferences put more teams in (in absolute terms, not as percentage of conference membership).  You are the only poster to repeat this over and over again, and your agenda is obvious.  I am absolutely fine with a conference that is 6th in the country in a "down" year.

So you think the conference will be better this year?

That was your takeaway?  Skillful deflection. 

To answer your question, I do not see an objective way that one could rank it lower than 6th. At this moment.  How did you arrive at 8th?  It doesn't sound like you are basing it on RPI, KenPom, NCAA bid %, SOS, incoming talent, etc.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 10:22:44 AM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on June 09, 2014, 09:54:33 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 09:10:07 AM

Do you think the big east is a top 10 conference? I do, but barely.

It is top 6 by all measurements.  Even if you use NCAA bids last year as your sole metric, only 5 conferences put more teams in (in absolute terms, not as percentage of conference membership).  You are the only poster to repeat this over and over again, and your agenda is obvious.  I am absolutely fine with a conference that is 6th in the country in a "down" year.

So you think the conference will be better this year?

That was your takeaway?  Skillful deflection. 

To answer your question, I do not see an objective way that one could rank it lower than 6th. At this moment.  How did you arrive at 8th?  It doesn't sound like you are basing it on RPI, KenPom, NCAA bid %, SOS, incoming talent, etc.

Easy....

1. MAAC
2. MAAC
3. MAAC
4. MAAC
5. MAAC
6. MAAC
7. MAAC
8. BE

 Another guy who has  zero to add. 1 guy says I have an agenda, the other refers to the MAAC in every post. Boys, Try growing a penis

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 10:22:44 AM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on June 09, 2014, 09:54:33 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 09:10:07 AM

Do you think the big east is a top 10 conference? I do, but barely.

It is top 6 by all measurements.  Even if you use NCAA bids last year as your sole metric, only 5 conferences put more teams in (in absolute terms, not as percentage of conference membership).  You are the only poster to repeat this over and over again, and your agenda is obvious.  I am absolutely fine with a conference that is 6th in the country in a "down" year.

So you think the conference will be better this year?

That was your takeaway?  Skillful deflection. 

To answer your question, I do not see an objective way that one could rank it lower than 6th. At this moment.  How did you arrive at 8th?  It doesn't sound like you are basing it on RPI, KenPom, NCAA bid %, SOS, incoming talent, etc.

So this coming year, you think Big East is 6th?

Quote from: Gray Chudney on June 09, 2014, 07:19:13 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 10:22:44 AM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on June 09, 2014, 09:54:33 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 09:10:07 AM

Do you think the big east is a top 10 conference? I do, but barely.

It is top 6 by all measurements.  Even if you use NCAA bids last year as your sole metric, only 5 conferences put more teams in (in absolute terms, not as percentage of conference membership).  You are the only poster to repeat this over and over again, and your agenda is obvious.  I am absolutely fine with a conference that is 6th in the country in a "down" year.

So you think the conference will be better this year?

That was your takeaway?  Skillful deflection. 

To answer your question, I do not see an objective way that one could rank it lower than 6th. At this moment.  How did you arrive at 8th?  It doesn't sound like you are basing it on RPI, KenPom, NCAA bid %, SOS, incoming talent, etc.

So this coming year, you think Big East is 6th?

Possibly better.  Again, how did you arrive at 8th?

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 07:49:54 PM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on June 09, 2014, 07:19:13 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 10:22:44 AM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on June 09, 2014, 09:54:33 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 09:10:07 AM

Do you think the big east is a top 10 conference? I do, but barely.

It is top 6 by all measurements.  Even if you use NCAA bids last year as your sole metric, only 5 conferences put more teams in (in absolute terms, not as percentage of conference membership).  You are the only poster to repeat this over and over again, and your agenda is obvious.  I am absolutely fine with a conference that is 6th in the country in a "down" year.

So you think the conference will be better this year?

That was your takeaway?  Skillful deflection. 

To answer your question, I do not see an objective way that one could rank it lower than 6th. At this moment.  How did you arrive at 8th?  It doesn't sound like you are basing it on RPI, KenPom, NCAA bid %, SOS, incoming talent, etc.

So this coming year, you think Big East is 6th?

Possibly better.  Again, how did you arrive at 8th?

Creighton and Providence are taking huge steps back.  Xavier isn't scaring anybody.  Top 3 in the conference IMO will be Nova, Seton Hall and STJohns. How many of these teams are top 25?

thats great work logan!

Thanks, appreciate it.

Quote from: Gray Chudney on June 09, 2014, 08:00:57 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 07:49:54 PM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on June 09, 2014, 07:19:13 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 10:22:44 AM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on June 09, 2014, 09:54:33 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 09:10:07 AM

Do you think the big east is a top 10 conference? I do, but barely.

It is top 6 by all measurements.  Even if you use NCAA bids last year as your sole metric, only 5 conferences put more teams in (in absolute terms, not as percentage of conference membership).  You are the only poster to repeat this over and over again, and your agenda is obvious.  I am absolutely fine with a conference that is 6th in the country in a "down" year.

So you think the conference will be better this year?

That was your takeaway?  Skillful deflection. 

To answer your question, I do not see an objective way that one could rank it lower than 6th. At this moment.  How did you arrive at 8th?  It doesn't sound like you are basing it on RPI, KenPom, NCAA bid %, SOS, incoming talent, etc.

So this coming year, you think Big East is 6th?

Possibly better.  Again, how did you arrive at 8th?

Creighton and Providence are taking huge steps back.  Xavier isn't scaring anybody.  Top 3 in the conference IMO will be Nova, Seton Hall and STJohns. How many of these teams are top 25?

So number of teams in the top 25 is the primary factor in your ranking?  That could account for you valuing conferences like the AAC and SEC ahead of the BE.  Not unreasonable, but I think there are better ways to evaluate a conference relative to other conferences.  But then it would indicate a huge drop in your system for those conferences with no top 25 teams. Surprising from a mid major fan

 I'd guess 2 top 25 teams with 3 others in the next 15-25 all year.  I expect 70% of the conference to be in the mix for an NCAA bid with 4-5 actually getting them. 

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 08:04:16 PM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on June 09, 2014, 08:00:57 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 07:49:54 PM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on June 09, 2014, 07:19:13 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 10:22:44 AM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on June 09, 2014, 09:54:33 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 09:10:07 AM

Do you think the big east is a top 10 conference? I do, but barely.

It is top 6 by all measurements.  Even if you use NCAA bids last year as your sole metric, only 5 conferences put more teams in (in absolute terms, not as percentage of conference membership).  You are the only poster to repeat this over and over again, and your agenda is obvious.  I am absolutely fine with a conference that is 6th in the country in a "down" year.

So you think the conference will be better this year?

That was your takeaway?  Skillful deflection. 

To answer your question, I do not see an objective way that one could rank it lower than 6th. At this moment.  How did you arrive at 8th?  It doesn't sound like you are basing it on RPI, KenPom, NCAA bid %, SOS, incoming talent, etc.

So this coming year, you think Big East is 6th?

Possibly better.  Again, how did you arrive at 8th?

Creighton and Providence are taking huge steps back.  Xavier isn't scaring anybody.  Top 3 in the conference IMO will be Nova, Seton Hall and STJohns. How many of these teams are top 25?

So number of teams in the top 25 is the primary factor in your ranking?  That could account for you valuing conferences like the AAC and SEC ahead of the BE.  Not unreasonable, but I think there are better ways to evaluate a conference relative to other conferences.  But then it would indicate a huge drop in your system for those conferences with no top 25 teams. Surprising from a mid major fan

 I'd guess 2 top 25 teams with 3 others in the next 15-25 all year.  I expect 70% of the conference to be in the mix for an NCAA bid with 4-5 actually getting them. 

It's all opinion, a ton of ways to look at it. 

I prefer more objective means, but I agree that it's all opinion at this stage.  Let's stop repeatedly posting leading questions on the subject this offseason. I think we can agree that the big east has challenges in its current form but its teams are positioned well (especially financially) for success at the highest level.

Quote from: Gray Chudney on June 09, 2014, 08:00:57 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 07:49:54 PM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on June 09, 2014, 07:19:13 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 10:22:44 AM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on June 09, 2014, 09:54:33 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 09, 2014, 09:10:07 AM

Do you think the big east is a top 10 conference? I do, but barely.

It is top 6 by all measurements.  Even if you use NCAA bids last year as your sole metric, only 5 conferences put more teams in (in absolute terms, not as percentage of conference membership).  You are the only poster to repeat this over and over again, and your agenda is obvious.  I am absolutely fine with a conference that is 6th in the country in a "down" year.

So you think the conference will be better this year?

That was your takeaway?  Skillful deflection. 

To answer your question, I do not see an objective way that one could rank it lower than 6th. At this moment.  How did you arrive at 8th?  It doesn't sound like you are basing it on RPI, KenPom, NCAA bid %, SOS, incoming talent, etc.

So this coming year, you think Big East is 6th?

Possibly better.  Again, how did you arrive at 8th?

Creighton and Providence are taking huge steps back.  Xavier isn't scaring anybody.  Top 3 in the conference IMO will be Nova, Seton Hall and STJohns. How many of these teams are top 25?

I think the BE will have at a minimum 2 top 25 teams in Nova and Georgetown most of the year like Nova and Creighton last year. I think Xavier, Providence, Seton Hall, and St. John's all have the potential to break into the top 25 at points as well.  And that's the order I have the teams as well.

Seton Hall?  I guess you guys think that Whitehead is going to be an immediate impact player, and same with Delgado (assuming he ends up there).  I think Sina will be a nice role player in time, but unless Whitehead or Delgado are really good freshman, or Mobley steps up like some thought he would this year, Gibbs is going to need A LOT of help.

I think Nova, then some combination of Georgetown/St. John's/Xavier.  Providence if it picks up some guys in the transfer game.  Henton is the most underrated player in the conference IMO, Dunn will be back and Green will probably be better, but they lost a lot in Cotton, Fortune and Batts.