Murray St. - Game Discussion

How can anyone say the refs cost us this game?  STJ couldn't convert on offense, left Murray's shooters wide open all second half, and that STUPID inbounds pass that they intercepted.  The refs missed a few flops, big deal.  STJ sucked it up to end...very tough loss but this is a young squad that will be beating Murray State by 20 in March.

I agree we were inefficient but really the refs did cost us. Even in the end, DLo got his man in the air and got fouled and shot the three with no call. That could've tied the game right there. So many bad calls went against us, even the announcers picked up on it.

Quote from: Marillac on November 16, 2012, 09:53:40 PM

How can anyone say the refs cost us this game?  STJ couldn't convert on offense, left Murray's shooters wide open all second half, and that STUPID inbounds pass that they intercepted.  The refs missed a few flops, big deal.  STJ sucked it up to end...very tough loss but this is a young squad that will be beating Murray State by 20 in March.

I agree we were inefficient but really the refs did cost us. Even in the end, DLo got his man in the air and got fouled and shot the three with no call. That could've tied the game right there. So many bad calls went against us, even the announcers picked up on it.

It should have been a foul but would have prolonged the inevitable I feel.  Going to OT they still had the momentum.

Quote from: Save The Hero on November 16, 2012, 11:18:17 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 16, 2012, 09:53:40 PM

How can anyone say the refs cost us this game?  STJ couldn't convert on offense, left Murray's shooters wide open all second half, and that STUPID inbounds pass that they intercepted.  The refs missed a few flops, big deal.  STJ sucked it up to end...very tough loss but this is a young squad that will be beating Murray State by 20 in March.

I agree we were inefficient but really the refs did cost us. Even in the end, DLo got his man in the air and got fouled and shot the three with no call. That could've tied the game right there. So many bad calls went against us, even the announcers picked up on it.

It should have been a foul but would have prolonged the inevitable I feel.  Going to OT they still had the momentum.

At that point, you never know. When a team comes back and ties it like that, I always feel the momentum is even. But we did play bad at the end. If that was a better team we would've lost by merit, but today we did not.

Just throwing this out there but everyone seems to want to ride Dom because he doesn't average 14 ppg.  But how about him not be able to play most of tonight.  Ever wonder how the 2nd half would have turned out with him defending the perimeter?

#justsayin

Just throwing this out there but everyone seems to want to ride Dom because he doesn't average 14 ppg.  But how about him not be able to play most of tonight.  Ever wonder how the 2nd half would have turned out with him defending the perimeter?

#justsayin

Agree. But tonight was much more than that. Second half of the game we had no number 2 option. That was the biggest weakness imo.

Quote from: Moose on November 16, 2012, 11:26:19 PM

Just throwing this out there but everyone seems to want to ride Dom because he doesn't average 14 ppg.  But how about him not be able to play most of tonight.  Ever wonder how the 2nd half would have turned out with him defending the perimeter?

#justsayin

Agree. But tonight was much more than that. Second half of the game we had no number 2 option. That was the biggest weakness imo.

Every game you really need 3 legit scoring options.  The games we won last year someone outside of the Big 2 stepped up.  Tonight Dee and Karr showed up offensively.  (yes I know Karr had some bonehead TO's) but still he played well on the offensive side of the ball.  There was no #3 option tonight.  Our next best scorer was Felix with 6 points in just 7 minutes. 

Every game you really need 3 legit scoring options.  The games we won last year someone outside of the Big 2 stepped up.  Tonight Dee and Karr showed up offensively.  (yes I know Karr had some bonehead TO's) but still he played well on the offensive side of the ball.  There was no #3 option tonight.  Our next best scorer was Felix with 6 points in just 7 minutes.

Definitely ideal to have three scorers, but really today we needed two to be on point. Jakarr just got cold in the second half and couldn't create his own shot or opportunities like in the first half. Usually Amir and Phil can be the second or third option, but they were MIA all game.

Just got to hope the guys show up against Baylor now.

Im not mad at the team at all. They did everything they needed to win. No team can play 5 on 7 (refs and fans). DLo did everything to get three freethrows to tie that game even throughout it all. On to the next one.

In the second half Murray St played better defense than us, they passed the ball more, shot the ball better, and turned it over less.
Yes, the refs were awful, but we did NOT do enough to win the game.   

And on the final play Harrison blatantly leaned into the kid, it wasn't a foul, the Murray St kid went straight up.

Quote from: Moose on November 16, 2012, 11:30:59 PM

Every game you really need 3 legit scoring options.  The games we won last year someone outside of the Big 2 stepped up.  Tonight Dee and Karr showed up offensively.  (yes I know Karr had some bonehead TO's) but still he played well on the offensive side of the ball.  There was no #3 option tonight.  Our next best scorer was Felix with 6 points in just 7 minutes.

Definitely ideal to have three scorers, but really today we needed two to be on point. Jakarr just got cold in the second half and couldn't create his own shot or opportunities like in the first half. Usually Amir and Phil can be the second or third option, but they were MIA all game.

Just got to hope the guys show up against Baylor now.

Karr has to stop trying to break down defenders from a stand still position.  He can break down in full stride and transition but not facing up his defender and starting from scratch.  1 offensive foul and couple TO's I believe from that.

http://www.charlestonclassic.com/home/component/content/article/175

Looks like 6pm on sunday on ESPNU. We got the Baylor matchup, gotta make it count now.

http://www.charlestonclassic.com/home/component/content/article/175

Looks like 6pm on sunday on ESPNU. We got the Baylor matchup, gotta make it count now.

We all wanted Baylor.  We got them.
This is reminiscent of that Holiday Festival years ago where Manhattan knocked us off and Iona knocked off UNC and we played in the consolation game.

In the second half Murray St played better defense than us, they passed the ball more, shot the ball better, and turned it over less.
Yes, the refs were awful, but we did NOT do enough to win the game.   

And on the final play Harrison blatantly leaned into the kid, it wasn't a foul, the Murray St kid went straight up.

Was trying to figure out how to record your screen, but gave up. Can just do pics:





He clearly did not go straight up.

Quote from: Save The Hero on November 16, 2012, 11:35:13 PM

Quote from: Moose on November 16, 2012, 11:30:59 PM

Every game you really need 3 legit scoring options.  The games we won last year someone outside of the Big 2 stepped up.  Tonight Dee and Karr showed up offensively.  (yes I know Karr had some bonehead TO's) but still he played well on the offensive side of the ball.  There was no #3 option tonight.  Our next best scorer was Felix with 6 points in just 7 minutes.

Definitely ideal to have three scorers, but really today we needed two to be on point. Jakarr just got cold in the second half and couldn't create his own shot or opportunities like in the first half. Usually Amir and Phil can be the second or third option, but they were MIA all game.

Just got to hope the guys show up against Baylor now.

Karr has to stop trying to break down defenders from a stand still position.  He can break down in full stride and transition but not facing up his defender and starting from scratch.  1 offensive foul and couple TO's I believe from that.

Agree, Karr on the move is where he is most dangerous.

Quote from: Backrim on November 16, 2012, 11:53:47 PM

http://www.charlestonclassic.com/home/component/content/article/175

Looks like 6pm on sunday on ESPNU. We got the Baylor matchup, gotta make it count now.

We all wanted Baylor.  We got them.
This is reminiscent of that Holiday Festival years ago where Manhattan knocked us off and Iona knocked off UNC and we played in the consolation game.

Sadly i remember that well. Was there for the first day when we went down to the jaspers...Murray State is no manhatten though which lessens the blow.

Quote from: Moose on November 16, 2012, 11:55:23 PM

Quote from: Backrim on November 16, 2012, 11:53:47 PM

http://www.charlestonclassic.com/home/component/content/article/175

Looks like 6pm on sunday on ESPNU. We got the Baylor matchup, gotta make it count now.

We all wanted Baylor.  We got them.
This is reminiscent of that Holiday Festival years ago where Manhattan knocked us off and Iona knocked off UNC and we played in the consolation game.

Sadly i remember that well. Was there for the first day when we went down to the jaspers...Murray State is no manhatten though which lessens the blow.

Exactly they won 30 plus games last yr.  Everyone needs to remember that.

In light of the refs discussion interesting tweet from the much maligned Mike Decourcy on these boards-

https://twitter.com/tsnmike/status/269413381650391040

Holiday college tourneys teach us there are more good players and coaches than refs. Akron-OKState and Nova-Purdue crews just awful, IMO.

the game may move too fast for these mid-major refs...but we did take 20 free throws to murray state's eleven.  the big problem is this team gets worn down at the end of halfs.  this isn't last year.  we have enough players to keep the starters fresh.

lavin can't allow himself to be outcoached.

Quote from: Save The Hero on November 16, 2012, 11:35:13 PM

Quote from: Moose on November 16, 2012, 11:30:59 PM

Every game you really need 3 legit scoring options.  The games we won last year someone outside of the Big 2 stepped up.  Tonight Dee and Karr showed up offensively.  (yes I know Karr had some bonehead TO's) but still he played well on the offensive side of the ball.  There was no #3 option tonight.  Our next best scorer was Felix with 6 points in just 7 minutes.

Definitely ideal to have three scorers, but really today we needed two to be on point. Jakarr just got cold in the second half and couldn't create his own shot or opportunities like in the first half. Usually Amir and Phil can be the second or third option, but they were MIA all game.

Just got to hope the guys show up against Baylor now.

Karr has to stop trying to break down defenders from a stand still position.  He can break down in full stride and transition but not facing up his defender and starting from scratch.  1 offensive foul and couple TO's I believe from that.

Watched game with a local coach who noted same thing. Karr has to learn to give it up quickly unless he has a lane & cut to hoop. All part of learning process.

Jon must be hung over, has no inane comparison!

“@JonRothstein: Chris Obekpa with six blocks in St. John's loss to Murray State. CAN'T wait to see him square off with Baylor 7-footer Isaiah Austin Sunday.”

- Jakarr mistakenly fouling on the 3 point shot with 3 minutes left was a huge swing against us.  Up 13 at that point and finished the 1/2 only up 5.  Needed a bigger lead than that after us playing so well and them shooting woefully in the 1st half.

- Was up screaming at my computer screen for a timeout with 6 min left, up by 5 and us dog tired and standing around.  No timeout; D'lo misses forced jumper; three by them; inbounds turnover by us; layup by them; tie game now; Timeout by us finally......Oh well.

- Murray St. second half man to man really picked up and slowed our offense to a grinding halt.  Late 2nd half we resembled an Nba offense.  D'lo playing like Iverson, head down looking to go one on one and score while 4 guys stood around and watched.

- Calling 4 offensive fouls on us; three on Jakarr; two on the Ben Wallace lookalike flops; then not giving Jakarr the the return charge in the second half was criminal.  Couple minutes later Amir gave them another opportunity to give us a charge call underneath....nothing.  Sad.