Baylor - Game Discussion

Got to agree somewhat with Foad.  To me Lavin is a great recruiter with shortcomings as a game coach.  When the talent is equal we have problems.  Even in the CYO you put your best defender on the guy with the hot hand.  Then it's at least four vs four and the best overall talent wins.  Cuse sticks with the zone but they don't lose shooters the way we do.  For the first time I saw a touch of Mahoneyitis in the Baylor game.  He was also a great recruiter except for point guards but always froze when the heat was on.  We have good athletes who are always running to close out on shooters when they could be denying passes and position, etc.  You listen to Bobby Knight commenting on the zone and it really makes you wonder why we're so committed to it when we match up so well athletically. Maybe Branch and Sanchez will make a difference but will GG really get time next year?  A bit of muscle and experience might have helped in Charlotte.

no $hit:

Quinn Rochford @QSTJHoops
   ·More
Lavin on Baylor loss: "We wore down a bit. We need to get more minutes for Marco [Bourgault] and Felix [Balamou]." #stjbb

no $hit:

Quinn Rochford @QSTJHoops
   ·More
Lavin on Baylor loss: "We wore down a bit. We need to get more minutes for Marco [Bourgault] and Felix [Balamou]." #stjbb

Quotes like this bother me a bit too.  Every STJ fan knew those two needed to see the floor more.  Especially Felix based on the little he played and how well he looked.  The problem is at the expense of who?  Tough to take out the two guards who were offensively killing it.

Quotes like this bother me a bit too.  Every STJ fan knew those two needed to see the floor more.  Especially Felix based on the little he played and how well he looked.  The problem is at the expense of who?  Tough to take out the two guards who were offensively killing it.

Probably some of Garrett's and Pointer's. Garrett one of our better rebounders though so if you play the three guards rebounding becomes even more of an issue.
I think when Branch is eligible it is going to really eat into Pointer / Garrett minutes as Greene and Harrison are going to play a lot.

Probably some of Garrett's and Pointer's. Garrett one of our better rebounders though so if you play the three guards rebounding becomes even more of an issue.
I think when Branch is eligible it is going to really eat into Pointer / Garrett minutes as Greene and Harrison are going to play a lot.

Comes down to matchups.  If we had a 3rd guard out there vs. Baylor it would have made rebounding numbers even worse.

Quote from: redmen4life on November 20, 2012, 12:54:47 PM

no $hit:

Quinn Rochford @QSTJHoops
   ·More
Lavin on Baylor loss: "We wore down a bit. We need to get more minutes for Marco [Bourgault] and Felix [Balamou]." #stjbb

Quotes like this bother me a bit too.  Every STJ fan knew those two needed to see the floor more.  Especially Felix based on the little he played and how well he looked.  The problem is at the expense of who?  Tough to take out the two guards who were offensively killing it.

Well isn't that what he is referring to?  So despite them killing it, they need to rest as well.  Felix looks like he could score in replacing them, and perhaps offers fresh legs on defense for a spell.  I was impressed by the little I saw of him, since he is one of the least talked about recruits.

Quote from: Moose on November 20, 2012, 01:03:09 PM

Quote from: redmen4life on November 20, 2012, 12:54:47 PM

no $hit:

Quinn Rochford @QSTJHoops
   ·More
Lavin on Baylor loss: "We wore down a bit. We need to get more minutes for Marco [Bourgault] and Felix [Balamou]." #stjbb

Quotes like this bother me a bit too.  Every STJ fan knew those two needed to see the floor more.  Especially Felix based on the little he played and how well he looked.  The problem is at the expense of who?  Tough to take out the two guards who were offensively killing it.

Well isn't that what he is referring to?  So despite them killing it, they need to rest as well.  Felix looks like he could score in replacing them, and perhaps offers fresh legs on defense for a spell.  I was impressed by the little I saw of him, since he is one of the least talked about recruits.

Its a double edged sword.  Our fans would have flipped honestly if Greene or Harrison were pulled for Felix and offensively we hit a drought.  Damned if we do, damned if we dont.

Comes down to matchups.  If we had a 3rd guard out there vs. Baylor it would have made rebounding numbers even worse

But might have gotten out quicker on the shooters from that stupid zone?

It is easy to say matchups, but reality is Branch / Greene going to play a ton of minutes. I think you need Branch to play and the three bigs will have to rotate. Really you are looking at Pointer/ Garrett/ Marco fighting for mins at the three spot and even that will be tough since I do believe you seen Branch, Greene and Harrison playing together. Normally deph is nice to have but in our case our two best players basically play the same position. Of course coach can alleviate this a bit by continuing to bench Harrison for missing buses or whatever.

Missed the Baylor game. So what's the buzz on Gaithers ?

Missed the Baylor game. So what's the buzz on Gaithers ?

Changed his name to Gathers! Kidding, looked ok to me. Won't dominate at this level, should shed some weight, but will be a decent 4 year contributor.

Quote from: we are sju on November 20, 2012, 01:10:23 PM

Probably some of Garrett's and Pointer's. Garrett one of our better rebounders though so if you play the three guards rebounding becomes even more of an issue.
I think when Branch is eligible it is going to really eat into Pointer / Garrett minutes as Greene and Harrison are going to play a lot.

Comes down to matchups.  If we had a 3rd guard out there vs. Baylor it would have made rebounding numbers even worse.

Yea, when I saw this quote it bothered me too.   I think it was obvious we were run down in the second half, and keep in mind that Dom was hurt most of the second half, which severely limited his minutes.

Ultimately I don't think Marco and Felix need major minutes, but they need to be played for two 3 or 4 min stretches each half to rest D'angelo and Phil.
Phil played 39 minutes against Baylor.   No reason Felix couldn't have stayed in for 3 extra minutes with D'angelo at pg to give Phil a spell.   

Also, the matchup problem is a valid criticism... of our recruiting strategy.   We purposely haven't gone after anyone above 6'9 because we've tried to stay uber-athletic.   
That's all fine and good till you get in a game situation and realize that Garret has to play basically the whole game because he is our best rebounding forward (and he still got pushed around).   

The good thing is that Branch and Sanchez are exactly what the Dr. ordered, in terms of additional depth.     

Quote from: Moose on November 20, 2012, 01:12:52 PM

Quote from: we are sju on November 20, 2012, 01:10:23 PM

Probably some of Garrett's and Pointer's. Garrett one of our better rebounders though so if you play the three guards rebounding becomes even more of an issue.
I think when Branch is eligible it is going to really eat into Pointer / Garrett minutes as Greene and Harrison are going to play a lot.

Comes down to matchups.  If we had a 3rd guard out there vs. Baylor it would have made rebounding numbers even worse.

Yea, when I saw this quote it bothered me too.   I think it was obvious we were run down in the second half, and keep in mind that Dom was hurt most of the second half, which severely limited his minutes.

Ultimately I don't think Marco and Felix need major minutes, but they need to be played for two 3 or 4 min stretches each half to rest D'angelo and Phil.
Phil played 39 minutes against Baylor.   No reason Felix couldn't have stayed in for 3 extra minutes with D'angelo at pg to give Phil a spell.   

Also, the matchup problem is a valid criticism... of our recruiting strategy.   We purposely haven't gone after anyone above 6'9 because we've tried to stay uber-athletic.   
That's all fine and good till you get in a game situation and realize that Garret has to play basically the whole game because he is our best rebounding forward (and he still got pushed around).   

The good thing is that Branch and Sanchez are exactly what the Dr. ordered, in terms of additional depth.     

Well Dom was only hurt during the Murray game.

My matchup point was meant as the Baylor game we had to play only 2 guards.  A third guard would have made the rebounding margin probably 3 or 4 to 1.  But for Murray game we could have easily played an extra guard.

I got the two games mixed up, you are correct Moose re Dom.   


Again, Branch and Sanchez will give us a lot more flexibility.  Sometimes we can go 3 guards, and in other games we'll have more depth for Sampson and Garrett to rest. 

That, and Obekpa staying out of foul trouble would have been a big help in the Baylor game.   Only 17 mins from him hurt us.   

I got the two games mixed up, you are correct Moose re Dom.   


Again, Branch and Sanchez will give us a lot more flexibility.  Sometimes we can go 3 guards, and in other games we'll have more depth for Sampson and Garrett to rest. 

That, and Obekpa staying out of foul trouble would have been a big help in the Baylor game.   Only 17 mins from him hurt us.   

That and Marillac favorite having his worst game of the year.  Rendered us useless with Amir having to contain Austin who was 7-8 inches taller.

Didn't read all of the pages, I am the only one who thought we needed gifts inside presence

Quote from: jhafner on November 18, 2012, 07:07:35 PM

Notes at the half

We are getting destroyed inside.  We desperately need more beef in the paint.  Why we are redshirting Gift is beyond me.  With Obekba and Sampson sitting for foul trouble, we've got Garrett playing the 4 in amongst the trees.  Garrett can't play a paint position.  I really hope Sanchez can play soon.  In the same vein, bummed we missed out on Gathers.  I'd like to see us start the 2nd half with our 3 bigs.  This could be a great win if our shoots continue to fall. 

Good points!

I never agreed with Red Shirting Gift either, even if Orlando was cleared being physical is our biggest weakness on such a young team. If you look at the top 10 teams we would still be small with Gift and Orlando. This team is very talented and has a chance to be special with a lot of harmoius pieces.  we need every piece! I think Lavin is trying to balance his roster for the future, but if we win those holes will be much easier to plug!

Didn't read all of the pages, I am the only one who thought we needed gifts inside presence

We needed help inside, I'll agree with that.    I'm surely not Gift's biggest fan, but I could see why some would have wanted him to see minutes against Baylor.   
It's not a crazy notion.   

Man we on post 217 of the Baylor game.
Cant wait til we play the Cross.

Quote from: we are sju on November 20, 2012, 01:10:23 PM

Probably some of Garrett's and Pointer's. Garrett one of our better rebounders though so if you play the three guards rebounding becomes even more of an issue.
I think when Branch is eligible it is going to really eat into Pointer / Garrett minutes as Greene and Harrison are going to play a lot.

Comes down to matchups.  If we had a 3rd guard out there vs. Baylor it would have made rebounding numbers even worse.

Exactly

Gift wouldn't have made a difference.  Cory Jefferson would have ate his lunch.  As a coach you don't mind these games.  If a kid needs work nothing makes them realize that faster than getting absolutely owned.