Big East could vote to dissolve

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Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #120 on: December 13, 2012, 12:21:36 AM »
Im fine with this. The conference has become a glorified CUSA anyway. No value in staying.

desco80

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Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #121 on: December 13, 2012, 12:33:38 AM »
Who actually thought this was going to happen even six months ago?     This started as a message board fantasy when we were pissed about the Syracuse and Pittsburgh defections.

Can't believe it looks like it's about to go down.   But I agree.. the BE lost the value of it's brand and it's appeal.    This announcement will put some wind back in the sails of the basketball schools.    For a year all we've heard is the BE is crumbling, now we might be able to actually tell recruits about the strong league their going to play in.... which is focused around basketball. 

Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #122 on: December 13, 2012, 12:42:51 AM »
Who actually thought this was going to happen even six months ago?     This started as a message board fantasy when we were pissed about the Syracuse and Pittsburgh defections.

Can't believe it looks like it's about to go down.   But I agree.. the BE lost the value of it's brand and it's appeal.    This announcement will put some wind back in the sails of the basketball schools.    For a year all we've heard is the BE is crumbling, now we might be able to actually tell recruits about the strong league their going to play in.... which is focused around basketball.

precisely. the only schools with movement have been football schools. they are out of the equation and we have a strong and stable conference without them. hopefully the money in a TV contract will be good.

Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #123 on: December 13, 2012, 12:57:21 AM »
i think we're likely to see remaining 7 join the A-10.  it's the cleanest, easiest route.  they'd join a stable league with proper leadership and according to some reports a still pending contract to be negotiated for online usage. i think all the schools at this point are looking for immediate stability, with the confidence that the merge with the A10 will grow to prosper the way the original Big East did.

On top of that, if the 7 are able to take the Big East name with them, there is no doubt in my mind, the A10 would be rebranded. i think at that point, we'd also keep The Garden as the tourney home. 

In my mind, it's the best move. Trying to start a new league all your own is a daunting task in today's world.

SJUFAN

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Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #124 on: December 13, 2012, 12:59:16 AM »
Who actually thought this was going to happen even six months ago?     This started as a message board fantasy when we were pissed about the Syracuse and Pittsburgh defections.

Can't believe it looks like it's about to go down.   But I agree.. the BE lost the value of it's brand and it's appeal.    This announcement will put some wind back in the sails of the basketball schools.    For a year all we've heard is the BE is crumbling, now we might be able to actually tell recruits about the strong league their going to play in.... which is focused around basketball.

I disagree that the BE lost it's value and brand appeal. Your thinking what it may look like in a couple years, but right now, we are still considered the best basketball conference in the country. I believe we should try our best to take the Big East name with us.

Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #125 on: December 13, 2012, 01:02:55 AM »
i think we're likely to see remaining 7 join the A-10.  it's the cleanest, easiest route.  they'd join a stable league with proper leadership and according to some reports a still pending contract to be negotiated for online usage. i think all the schools at this point are looking for immediate stability, with the confidence that the merge with the A10 will grow to prosper the way the original Big East did.

On top of that, if the 7 are able to take the Big East name with them, there is no doubt in my mind, the A10 would be rebranded. i think at that point, we'd also keep The Garden as the tourney home. 

In my mind, it's the best move. Trying to start a new league all your own is a daunting task in today's world.

Disagree. We should keep the name and bring them out of their conference. They have a horrid tv deal right now. We can get a new TV deal, have MSG and have great schools/markets that have been loyal to each other (except Villanova, but we'll forgive them). They will join a potentially major basketball conference. No need to join them.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 01:04:19 AM by Save The Hero »

Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #126 on: December 13, 2012, 01:16:41 AM »
i think we're likely to see remaining 7 join the A-10.  it's the cleanest, easiest route.  they'd join a stable league with proper leadership and according to some reports a still pending contract to be negotiated for online usage. i think all the schools at this point are looking for immediate stability, with the confidence that the merge with the A10 will grow to prosper the way the original Big East did.

On top of that, if the 7 are able to take the Big East name with them, there is no doubt in my mind, the A10 would be rebranded. i think at that point, we'd also keep The Garden as the tourney home. 

In my mind, it's the best move. Trying to start a new league all your own is a daunting task in today's world.

Disagree. We should keep the name and bring them out of their conference. They have a horrid tv deal right now. We can get a new TV deal, have MSG and have great schools/markets that have been loyal to each other (except Villanova, but we'll forgive them). They will join a potentially major basketball conference. No need to join them.

there are 3 major problems with your scenario:

1.  no network is going to give a tv deal until you have a complete, steady league. so you can't go to espn or nbc and say, we are going to add butler, dayton, creighton, etc.  they have to already have committed. and the schools on the other hand, will want to see the tv deal before committing. so it's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario.

2. who leads this new league? where does the infrastructure come from? it's essentially starting an entirely new organization. it's a ton of work that takes time.

3.  instability.  instability. instability. 

desco80

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Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #127 on: December 13, 2012, 01:19:15 AM »
Who actually thought this was going to happen even six months ago?     This started as a message board fantasy when we were pissed about the Syracuse and Pittsburgh defections.

Can't believe it looks like it's about to go down.   But I agree.. the BE lost the value of it's brand and it's appeal.    This announcement will put some wind back in the sails of the basketball schools.    For a year all we've heard is the BE is crumbling, now we might be able to actually tell recruits about the strong league their going to play in.... which is focused around basketball.

I disagree that the BE lost it's value and brand appeal. Your thinking what it may look like in a couple years, but right now, we are still considered the best basketball conference in the country. I believe we should try our best to take the Big East name with us.

I agree.  I was talking down the road.  Right now it still has quite a bit of value as an asset.
I meant that being associated with the Big East was hurting our reputation for the time being, all the talk was about the demise of the BE, where would SJU and Georgetown be in a couple of years?  Etc etc.
The instability in the league was hurting us.
But the value of the league's name and brand is still high.  You're right about that. 

MCNPA

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Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #128 on: December 13, 2012, 01:28:23 AM »
i think we're likely to see remaining 7 join the A-10.  it's the cleanest, easiest route.  they'd join a stable league with proper leadership and according to some reports a still pending contract to be negotiated for online usage. i think all the schools at this point are looking for immediate stability, with the confidence that the merge with the A10 will grow to prosper the way the original Big East did.

On top of that, if the 7 are able to take the Big East name with them, there is no doubt in my mind, the A10 would be rebranded. i think at that point, we'd also keep The Garden as the tourney home. 

In my mind, it's the best move. Trying to start a new league all your own is a daunting task in today's world.

Disagree. We should keep the name and bring them out of their conference. They have a horrid tv deal right now. We can get a new TV deal, have MSG and have great schools/markets that have been loyal to each other (except Villanova, but we'll forgive them). They will join a potentially major basketball conference. No need to join them.

there are 3 major problems with your scenario:

1.  no network is going to give a tv deal until you have a complete, steady league. so you can't go to espn or nbc and say, we are going to add butler, dayton, creighton, etc.  they have to already have committed. and the schools on the other hand, will want to see the tv deal before committing. so it's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario.

2. who leads this new league? where does the infrastructure come from? it's essentially starting an entirely new organization. it's a ton of work that takes time.

3.  instability.  instability. instability.

1). My bet is that there are assurances from some other schools already.  I also bet that there have been discussions with espn etc about marketability.  Realize that the ACC strings were pulled by espn behind the scenes when Cuse and Pitt were added.  I don't think we walk the plank without some idea of the direction we are going.

2). Who will lead the new league?  It's run the same way it is now, but with a new commish with bball-only vision.  Move offices to NYC.  The Big East already has name and some infrastructure.  Just need new schools.

3). Nothing is more unstable than what we've been doing for the last few years.  ALL maneuvers going forward will be in the name of basketball, stability, and marketability.  There will be no stability without moving forward.

As far as moving to the A-10, well screw that.  They have a terrible tv package.  We can and should do better under the Big East name if possible.  Go back to our roots and how this thing all started.  With basketball.

Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #129 on: December 13, 2012, 01:33:19 AM »
there are 3 major problems with your scenario:

1.  no network is going to give a tv deal until you have a complete, steady league. so you can't go to espn or nbc and say, we are going to add butler, dayton, creighton, etc.  they have to already have committed. and the schools on the other hand, will want to see the tv deal before committing. so it's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario.

2. who leads this new league? where does the infrastructure come from? it's essentially starting an entirely new organization. it's a ton of work that takes time.

3.  instability.  instability. instability.

1. Plenty of time to add these teams by next year and have the model. You have 7 loyal and stable teams.

2. new commissioner. we have the name and the tournament location. all we need is a commissioner and a TV deal. This is the same position the conference was 6 months ago and half is today.

3. Whats unstable about it? We are moving away from instability, by doing this. The teams involved have been very stable.

Plus, whats the alternative. Join a conference where you make something like 150K per school via media deal?

desco80

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Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #130 on: December 13, 2012, 01:33:24 AM »
i think we're likely to see remaining 7 join the A-10.  it's the cleanest, easiest route.  they'd join a stable league with proper leadership and according to some reports a still pending contract to be negotiated for online usage. i think all the schools at this point are looking for immediate stability, with the confidence that the merge with the A10 will grow to prosper the way the original Big East did.

On top of that, if the 7 are able to take the Big East name with them, there is no doubt in my mind, the A10 would be rebranded. i think at that point, we'd also keep The Garden as the tourney home. 

In my mind, it's the best move. Trying to start a new league all your own is a daunting task in today's world.

Disagree. We should keep the name and bring them out of their conference. They have a horrid tv deal right now. We can get a new TV deal, have MSG and have great schools/markets that have been loyal to each other (except Villanova, but we'll forgive them). They will join a potentially major basketball conference. No need to join them.

there are 3 major problems with your scenario:

1.  no network is going to give a tv deal until you have a complete, steady league. so you can't go to espn or nbc and say, we are going to add butler, dayton, creighton, etc.  they have to already have committed. and the schools on the other hand, will want to see the tv deal before committing. so it's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario.

2. who leads this new league? where does the infrastructure come from? it's essentially starting an entirely new organization. it's a ton of work that takes time.

3.  instability.  instability. instability.

I agree with STH, no way the 7 are joining the A-10.    St Johns Georgetown Villanova bring all the value to the table, why would they want to split the tv contract with more schools than they have to?    Duquesne and La Salle would cost us real money.   
And, it's not clear that they are leaving the BE necessarily.   There are a ton of corporate governance issues in play here; and one of the options is to dissolve and to reorganize under a new charter.    The Big East's assets and offices etc could be retained if they paid an equal settlement to the other schools at the time of dissolution (UCONN, Cinn, USF).  That wouldn't be a prohibitive cost.   

Pete Thamel from SI tweeted today that the A-10 teams recruiting the BE basketball schools is like the Sun Belt trying to lure Alabama and Florida.   That's not happening.   

I'd be surprised if the 7 catholic schools made this move without the ability to retain the BE brand, or take a sizeable chunk of Louisiville, Syracuse, ND etc's exit fees with them. 
They're not walking out with nothing.   They have the controlling votes, to kick schools out of the current BE, or dissolve the league and split the assets (7/10s of which they would keep)

Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #131 on: December 13, 2012, 01:37:47 AM »
1). My bet is that there are assurances from some other schools already.  I also bet that there have been discussions with espn etc about marketability.  Realize that the ACC strings were pulled by espn behind the scenes when Cuse and Pitt were added.  I don't think we walk the plank without some idea of the direction we are going.

2). Who will lead the new league?  It's run the same way it is now, but with a new commish with bball-only vision.  Move offices to NYC.  The Big East already has name and some infrastructure.  Just need new schools.

3). Nothing is more unstable than what we've been doing for the last few years.  ALL maneuvers going forward will be in the name of basketball, stability, and marketability.  There will be no stability without moving forward.

As far as moving to the A-10, well screw that.  They have a terrible tv package.  We can and should do better under the Big East name if possible.  Go back to our roots and how this thing all started.  With basketball.

good point. i could totally see this being the reason this is happening right now. ESPN probably sees that is has no shot keeping the Big East with the football, but wants to keep the basketball so offered us a better deal on the side.

desco80

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Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #132 on: December 13, 2012, 02:00:55 AM »
This was from earlier in the day on Wednesday, in the Philly Inquirer, but it makes it pretty clear..

"ESPN.com reported Tuesday that the A-10 has discussed the possibility of inviting some or all of the Big East non-football schools. "The seven Big East schools have no interest in that at all," a Big East source said."

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/colleges/20121212_Time_to_Split_.html

gman

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Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #133 on: December 13, 2012, 07:55:31 AM »
Moose, UMass still a school to consider.  I think they'd consider a drop to D1AA football considering they draw a little over 10k per game.  Their football program is bleeding but their bball program in the right hands has the market. First choices have to be Xavier, Butler, Dayton, St Louis.  Others like Creighton, Wichita State, VCU are compelling.

I do think some teams like Umass and Charlotte have to look in mirror if they want to move forward with football.  It just might not be feasible for them.

What do you mean? Uncc has pumped a lot of money into football and is jumping straight to cusa.

And what is CUSA exactly going to be?  Is the juice worth the squeeze for anyone outside of the big 4 conferences.

So all non big 4 footballs should close up shop in your opinion?

paultzman

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Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #134 on: December 13, 2012, 08:09:03 AM »
“@KevinMcNamara33: Big East Catholics could announce split soon http://t.co/XQbRyKJY


“@McMurphyESPN: Big East hoops schools leaning toward leaving football schools sources tell @espn http://t.co/7edL0NXt

You could sense a big move is imminent, perhaps.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 08:14:23 AM by paultzman »

paultzman

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Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #135 on: December 13, 2012, 08:25:07 AM »
If this happens, UConn will be in a tough spot.  ;D

 "UConn president Susan Herbst has contacted officials from the non-FBS Big East members, pleading with them to stay in the league"
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 08:28:58 AM by paultzman »

Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #136 on: December 13, 2012, 08:27:51 AM »
IMPORTANT point from the ProJo article:

"NCAA rules state that a group of seven schools that have been members together for more than five years can keep its bid if the group moves to another league."
Parking only for NYCHA permit holders.

Moose

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Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #137 on: December 13, 2012, 08:32:14 AM »
Moose, UMass still a school to consider.  I think they'd consider a drop to D1AA football considering they draw a little over 10k per game.  Their football program is bleeding but their bball program in the right hands has the market. First choices have to be Xavier, Butler, Dayton, St Louis.  Others like Creighton, Wichita State, VCU are compelling.

I do think some teams like Umass and Charlotte have to look in mirror if they want to move forward with football.  It just might not be feasible for them.

What do you mean? Uncc has pumped a lot of money into football and is jumping straight to cusa.

And what is CUSA exactly going to be?  Is the juice worth the squeeze for anyone outside of the big 4 conferences.

So all non big 4 footballs should close up shop in your opinion?

Not all.  But especially one that hasn't even yet to make any traction at the D1A level it might be a bear for them to get off the ground.
Remember who broke the Slice news

Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #138 on: December 13, 2012, 08:40:48 AM »
Choz's to-do list for 12-13-12:

Bring Tranghese in as commish.
Hire lawyers to retain Big East name (get the ones that got Walter Berry eligible)
Go after Xavier, Dayton, Butler and maybe two more.
Talk to MSG post haste.
Get to NBC/Comcast for a contract.

And when they is a spare moment tell Susan Herbst to.... well now I'm a Christian so I'll just leave it at that y'all.
Parking only for NYCHA permit holders.

paultzman

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Re: Big East could vote to dissolve
« Reply #139 on: December 13, 2012, 08:43:28 AM »
Choz's to-do list for 12-13-12:

Bring Tranghese in as commish.
Hire lawyers to retain Big East name (get the ones that got Walter Berry eligible)
Go after Xavier, Dayton, Butler and maybe two more.
Talk to MSG post haste.
Get to NBC/Comcast for a contract.

And when they is a spare moment tell Susan Herbst to.... well now I'm a Christian so I'll just leave it at that y'all.

Nice Choz! Also cancel that trip to New Orleans for that annual barn burner with Tulane!