Big East could vote to dissolve

For the record St. John's is in Jamica Estates which is home to upperclass neighborhood with million dollar homes...saying that SJU is in Jamica is saying their is no difference between Albany and Syracuse because both of upstate cities.

Quote from: MCNPA on February 17, 2013, 12:02:55 PM

Fwiw, I don't think they'll add Siena.  They don't add much of a market.  That's Syracuse country.  They have s decent program and arena but don't offer much else moving forward.

Well no, it's not really Syracuse country, except perhaps to people who live in cosmopolitan Commack and think everything north of White Plains is in the artic circle. In fact, Loudonville is about equidistant from Syracuse and Queens. It's Syracuse country to the extent that Albany is the capital of New York and Syracuse is NY's team. Other than that, not so much.

Here's what Siena brings to the table. A nicer campus than SJ, in a nicer community than Jamaica. Better academics than SJ. A better fan base than SJ. Better facilities than SJ. Greater NCAA tournament success than SJ.  A more successful coaching tree (McCaffery, Orr, Deane) than SJ. An administration that's more commmitted to the success of the BB program than is SJ. Other than that you're right, they bring nothing to the table.

Without SJ having had the good fortune to step in a great big steaming pile of Lavin only the most delusional of SJ fans - that would be you incidentally - would not have aspired to Siena's level of success. Because the MAAC was where SJ was headed on a good day.

What Siena doesn't bring to the table is (1) an antedeluvian BB history (2) a coach who's capable of bringing in top 100 recruits and (3) a vitamin water billionaire. In a better conference they're certainly capable of competing against Seton Hall and Detroit Mercy.

Hey, I live in Commack so I resemble that remark!

There has been a good deal of speculation about who the other schools in the new league might be since the Catholic 7 informed the Big East in December that they were leaving the floundering league. In all likelihood, four schools are virtual locks to be invited: Dayton, Xavier, Saint Louis and Butler. The first three are Catholic schools. DeGioia and friends would probably be willing to make an exception for Butler because the school has become a national basketball power and would make the league’s television package a good deal more lucrative.

The conference leaders want six eastern and six western — really, midwestern — schools. The eastern division of the league will consist of Georgetown, St. John’s, Seton Hall, Villanova, Providence and either Richmond (also a non-Catholic school) or Siena — a late entry but a potentially appealing one because it’s a Catholic school that (more importantly) plays in a 15,500-seat arena in Albany, N.Y.

The western conference would consist of Marquette, DePaul, Saint Louis, Xavier, Dayton and Butler. If Butler decides not to leave the Atlantic 10 — which it joined only this season — or if the presidents decide to go with Catholic schools only, the University of Detroit Mercy would come into the picture. Creighton, another Catholic school considered a potential candidate, is considered too far west (Omaha, Neb.) for teams in non-revenue sports to travel.

If Xavier, Dayton, Saint Louis and Butler were to leave the Atlantic 10, it would be devastating for that conference, which would suddenly go from a 16-team league with a solid group of basketball schools to a 10-team league (Temple is leaving for the Big East and Charlotte for Conference USA after this season). It would still have Virginia Commonwealth, but no other school that has been a serious player on the national map in recent years.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/catholic-7-schools-including-georgetown-charting-a-new-yet-familiar-path/2013/02/16/f1eaa870-7876-11e2-aa12-e6cf1d31106b_story.html

Ignore this article. Feinstein is a BUM! He has no sources and has no clue what he's talking about. He hates Georgetown. Completely ignore this article. Feinstein =BUM!

Quote from: MCNPA on February 17, 2013, 12:02:55 PM

Fwiw, I don't think they'll add Siena.  They don't add much of a market.  That's Syracuse country.  They have s decent program and arena but don't offer much else moving forward.

Well no, it's not really Syracuse country, except perhaps to people who live in cosmopolitan Commack and think everything north of White Plains is in the artic circle. In fact, Loudonville is about equidistant from Syracuse and Queens. It's Syracuse country to the extent that Albany is the capital of New York and Syracuse is NY's team. Other than that, not so much.

Here's what Siena brings to the table. A nicer campus than SJ, in a nicer community than Jamaica. Better academics than SJ. A better fan base than SJ. Better facilities than SJ. Greater NCAA tournament success than SJ.  A more successful coaching tree (McCaffery, Orr, Deane) than SJ. An administration that's more commmitted to the success of the BB program than is SJ. Other than that you're right, they bring nothing to the table.

Without SJ having had the good fortune to step in a great big steaming pile of Lavin only the most delusional of SJ fans - that would be you incidentally - would not have aspired to Siena's level of success. Because the MAAC was where SJ was headed on a good day.

What Siena doesn't bring to the table is (1) an antedeluvian BB history (2) a coach who's capable of bringing in top 100 recruits and (3) a vitamin water billionaire. In a better conference they're certainly capable of competing against Seton Hall and Detroit Mercy.

Lol, so now we'd be lucky to bring an Albany school into the fold who has no interest to anybody on the planet further out than Schenectady? C'mon, anything north of Westechester is "Syracuse Country".   Siena has had oodles of success in a poor conference.  We should add them just because they have a decent arena?

I know SJU's campus isn't the best in the world.  To tell the truth, I didn't even want to go to SJU initially, I wanted to go away to Hopkins which my parents couldn't afford.  I went to Stony Brook and later transferred to SJU.    I have grown to love it though, through connections and relationships I've made thorough SJU. I do have an appreciation for the basketball history at SJU, even though most of it is buried.  I don't think it is dead though.  And while SJU's recent lack of success isn't anything to write home about, we have basketbsll history that was built competing against real competition, not Maac teams like Siena that cruised through their conference just about every year. 

Siena is a decent school with a nice program.  I dont think they are the worst choice, but I think they'd be more attractive if they played in a better market.  I don't think they can ever grab any market share from Syracuse, and has little interest outside of the Albany area.  I agree with you about Seton Hall, who doesn't have an illustrious history, but they are still part of it even if along for the ride.  Their administration has no interest in spending money to compete.

Bring in Siena and help turn them into upstate New York's team.  It can work.

Lol, so now we'd be lucky to bring an Albany school into the fold who has no interest to anybody on the planet further out than Schenectady? C'mon, anything north of Westechester is "Syracuse Country".   Siena has had oodles of success in a poor conference.  We should add them just because they have a decent arena?

Siena is a viable candidate because they draw around 8000 fans a game in a market of about 250K. Whereas SJ draws about the same amount of fans from a market of 5 million and they only have those numbers because fans of other teams trek to NY to watch their teams play. Saint John's has about the worst fanbase of any major college BB program in the history of the universe and once the geriatrics in the red and white club keel over it wont have any fanbase at all. You might want to pretend like its still 1985 but it isn't.

And while SJU's recent lack of success isn't anything to write home about, we have basketbsll history that was built competing against real competition, not Maac teams like Siena that cruised through their conference just about every year. 

Baloney. Saint John's has a recent history of getting the shit kicked out it by elite competition and holding its own against crap teams. Before that and throughout its entire history, except for a brief period between say 1980 and 1990, Louie won 20 a year by beating the stuffing out of schedule made up nearly wholly of creampuffs: NYU, Columbia, St Bonaventure, Niagara, Army, Fordham, Fairleigh ridiculous, etc. The level of competition he scheduled is exactly why he his teams were so so atrocious in the tournament, because he was forced to play teams that didn't suck.

Siena is a decent school with a nice program.  I dont think they are the worst choice, but I think they'd be more attractive if they played in a better market.  I don't think they can ever grab any market share from Syracuse, and has little interest outside of the Albany area. 

Is the criteria for entry into the new and deconstructed BE that the team has to grab a marketshare from Syracuse? Because if so that would leave Saint John's out of the mix. Saint John's can't even outdraw Syracuse when they play at MSG.

News flash: Dayton garners little interest outside Dayton. Richmond garners little interest outside Richmond. And SJ garners little interest outside Queens. That's why we're joining this second rate conference in the first place. Otherwise we'd be in the ACC, with the rest of the good teams.

St Johns can't get 300 students to see a game

Anyone who thinks St. John's belongs in the same conference as Siena has lost all hope.

I live just outside Albany and have a friend or two that are close to the Siena program.

From what I have been told, no one from the "Catholic 7" has reached out to Siena.  At least not yet.  Since all this re-alignment we've had some theoretical talks about Siena joining the Big East (at first) and more recently the Catholic 7.  They tell me the basketball people would be in favor of a move, but the powers that be and the other sports teams at Siena would never let it happen. 

As much as I'd love to see Siena join a conference with St. John's in it, I just don't see it happening. 

There is zero chance Siena is part of the new conference.

Zero

Siena had a good run 3 years ago. Ancient history

Siena had a good run 3 years ago. Ancient history

If Siena maintained the success they had when they beat Ohio State and Vandy, they'd have a strong case. The 7 teams we have now can't afford to carry even more irrelevant programs. Butler, Xavier and Temple are all sensible choices. Maybe George Mason is too?

“It’s always flattering when the college’s name is put in a group of schools like that,” Siena athletic director John D’Argenio said today while attending the women’s basketball game. “But it’s just somebody that wrote an article and speculates.”

D’Argenio said Siena hasn’t been contacted by representatives from any of the Catholic 7 schools.

“Nobody’s made any outreaches or overtures, and I don’t know who they’ve made outreaches or overtures to,” D’Argenio said. “But I know it’s not us.”

http://blog.timesunion.com/collegesports/siena-ad-responds-to-report-of-possible-catholic-7-invite/15440/

There is zero chance Siena is part of the new conference.

Zero

The voice of reality---who ever started this rumor has an agenda and it is not the success of the C7.  This would be a major disappointment and a major failure of the development of our new league.  Take a look at this 6-21 team in the MAAC.  Posters already complain about us scheduling local teams at this level and now they want to let them in.  The supposed attendance is smoke and mirrors--one game at 10K but that was Albany so it was a dual home game; otherwise they average 6K and that is in a town with NOTHING else to do.  So the next time some one posts they want Siena ask yourself is this the level of league you want to play in

Don't think Temple will be there, Poison, because of the football issue.  My guess is Butler, Xavier, and Dayton/St. Louis (if they go 10).  Both and who knows if they go 12. Don't see the Zags because of the travel issue.  Would love a George Mason or VCU, but don't know if they are in the equation.

In other news, Feinstein usually goes by the handles Foad, Dr. Fun or just Fun...

If this whole process started a few years ago, I have no doubt Siena would be one of the five teams in. But timing is everything, and their time has unfortunately passed. I'm sure my choice of head coach changed weekly, but McCaffery was my top choice for a while and Siena was one of the most fun teams in the nation to watch for a while there. But things unfortunately changed and there is no way they are a candidate.

Quote from: MCNPA on February 17, 2013, 05:52:24 PM

Lol, so now we'd be lucky to bring an Albany school into the fold who has no interest to anybody on the planet further out than Schenectady? C'mon, anything north of Westechester is "Syracuse Country".   Siena has had oodles of success in a poor conference.  We should add them just because they have a decent arena?

Siena is a viable candidate because they draw around 8000 fans a game in a market of about 250K. Whereas SJ draws about the same amount of fans from a market of 5 million and they only have those numbers because fans of other teams trek to NY to watch their teams play. Saint John's has about the worst fanbase of any major college BB program in the history of the universe and once the geriatrics in the red and white club keel over it wont have any fanbase at all. You might want to pretend like its still 1985 but it isn't.

Quote

And while SJU's recent lack of success isn't anything to write home about, we have basketbsll history that was built competing against real competition, not Maac teams like Siena that cruised through their conference just about every year. 

Baloney. Saint John's has a recent history of getting the shit kicked out it by elite competition and holding its own against crap teams. Before that and throughout its entire history, except for a brief period between say 1980 and 1990, Louie won 20 a year by beating the stuffing out of schedule made up nearly wholly of creampuffs: NYU, Columbia, St Bonaventure, Niagara, Army, Fordham, Fairleigh ridiculous, etc. The level of competition he scheduled is exactly why he his teams were so so atrocious in the tournament, because he was forced to play teams that didn't suck.

Quote

Siena is a decent school with a nice program.  I dont think they are the worst choice, but I think they'd be more attractive if they played in a better market.  I don't think they can ever grab any market share from Syracuse, and has little interest outside of the Albany area. 

Is the criteria for entry into the new and deconstructed BE that the team has to grab a marketshare from Syracuse? Because if so that would leave Saint John's out of the mix. Saint John's can't even outdraw Syracuse when they play at MSG.

News flash: Dayton garners little interest outside Dayton. Richmond garners little interest outside Richmond. And SJ garners little interest outside Queens. That's why we're joining this second rate conference in the first place. Otherwise we'd be in the ACC, with the rest of the good teams.

foad has established himself as the true voice of reality on these sites.

i'll inject a bit more.

1.  the current C7 is a league of mediocrities with no teams in the top ten and only two in the top 20.

2.  it's not the big east.  the real big east is signed on to play its tournament in the garden.  the atlantic 10 has taken the barclay's center.  nassau coliseum, anyone?  sure, the prudential center in newark is an answer.  it's in new jersey.  the jets and giants won't admit they play in new jersey...so you see how that goes.   

3.  we have a small fanbase whitewashing the walls with speculation on how taking a handful of teams from the atlantic 10 and other lesser conferences will create a sum greater than its parts.  so we move from the most powerful basketball league in the country to one of several in the second tier.  oh, the missed opportunities!

4.  worst of all, we have college presidents who know NOTHING about hoops creating a new conference.  it's like asking athletic directors to create a new med school.  even worse is reading that father harrington is in the vanguard of building the league.  this is the same FH who destroyed st john's basketball for a decade.  he started the siena rumor because he wanted to go to tuscany every year. 

this isn't good, folks.

 

If this whole process started a few years ago, I have no doubt Siena would be one of the five teams in. But timing is everything, and their time has unfortunately passed. I'm sure my choice of head coach changed weekly, but McCaffery was my top choice for a while and Siena was one of the most fun teams in the nation to watch for a while there. But things unfortunately changed and there is no way they are a candidate.

Is their weak hoops history and current poor state any less impressive than where Uconn was when the new BE let them in?  I like the idea of picking a school out of Cuse's backyard and pulling them up along with the great hoops that this league will produce with MSG and the cities of the northeast as the home base of the league.  If they win a bit the Albany / Saratoga area can be as strong the Hartford area. 

I know it's not happening, but with it would be cool to take a shot at the Cuse base.  Cuse won't get the same treatment from their new North Carolina friends - their road to winning in that league is filled with pot holes.  And winning is necessary for fan support. It is the only thing that matters.  Just look at the the Cuse teams that could not win.  Most of the people in the seats are fair weather fans.

Quote from: Foad on February 17, 2013, 07:17:04 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on February 17, 2013, 05:52:24 PM

Lol, so now we'd be lucky to bring an Albany school into the fold who has no interest to anybody on the planet further out than Schenectady? C'mon, anything north of Westechester is "Syracuse Country".   Siena has had oodles of success in a poor conference.  We should add them just because they have a decent arena?

Siena is a viable candidate because they draw around 8000 fans a game in a market of about 250K. Whereas SJ draws about the same amount of fans from a market of 5 million and they only have those numbers because fans of other teams trek to NY to watch their teams play. Saint John's has about the worst fanbase of any major college BB program in the history of the universe and once the geriatrics in the red and white club keel over it wont have any fanbase at all. You might want to pretend like its still 1985 but it isn't.

Quote

And while SJU's recent lack of success isn't anything to write home about, we have basketbsll history that was built competing against real competition, not Maac teams like Siena that cruised through their conference just about every year. 

Baloney. Saint John's has a recent history of getting the shit kicked out it by elite competition and holding its own against crap teams. Before that and throughout its entire history, except for a brief period between say 1980 and 1990, Louie won 20 a year by beating the stuffing out of schedule made up nearly wholly of creampuffs: NYU, Columbia, St Bonaventure, Niagara, Army, Fordham, Fairleigh ridiculous, etc. The level of competition he scheduled is exactly why he his teams were so so atrocious in the tournament, because he was forced to play teams that didn't suck.

Quote

Siena is a decent school with a nice program.  I dont think they are the worst choice, but I think they'd be more attractive if they played in a better market.  I don't think they can ever grab any market share from Syracuse, and has little interest outside of the Albany area. 

Is the criteria for entry into the new and deconstructed BE that the team has to grab a marketshare from Syracuse? Because if so that would leave Saint John's out of the mix. Saint John's can't even outdraw Syracuse when they play at MSG.

News flash: Dayton garners little interest outside Dayton. Richmond garners little interest outside Richmond. And SJ garners little interest outside Queens. That's why we're joining this second rate conference in the first place. Otherwise we'd be in the ACC, with the rest of the good teams.

foad has established himself as the true voice of reality on these sites.

i'll inject a bit more.

1.  the current C7 is a league of mediocrities with no teams in the top ten and only two in the top 20.

2.  it's not the big east.  the real big east is signed on to play its tournament in the garden.  the atlantic 10 has taken the barclay's center.  nassau coliseum, anyone?  sure, the prudential center in newark is an answer.  it's in new jersey.  the jets and giants won't admit they play in new jersey...so you see how that goes.   

3.  we have a small fanbase whitewashing the walls with speculation on how taking a handful of teams from the atlantic 10 and other lesser conferences will create a sum greater than its parts.  so we move from the most powerful basketball league in the country to one of several in the second tier.  oh, the missed opportunities!

4.  worst of all, we have college presidents who know NOTHING about hoops creating a new conference.  it's like asking athletic directors to create a new med school.  even worse is reading that father harrington is in the vanguard of building the league.  this is the same FH who destroyed st john's basketball for a decade.  he started the siena rumor because he wanted to go to tuscany every year. 

this isn't good, folks.

It will be good if they hire a dynamic league president. It's not the Big East of TODAY but it's better than the BIG EAST of 2015 even if we stayed.

Slimmed down and just basketball oriented.