Big East could vote to dissolve

Quote from: Foad on February 17, 2013, 07:17:04 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on February 17, 2013, 05:52:24 PM

Lol, so now we'd be lucky to bring an Albany school into the fold who has no interest to anybody on the planet further out than Schenectady? C'mon, anything north of Westechester is "Syracuse Country".   Siena has had oodles of success in a poor conference.  We should add them just because they have a decent arena?

Siena is a viable candidate because they draw around 8000 fans a game in a market of about 250K. Whereas SJ draws about the same amount of fans from a market of 5 million and they only have those numbers because fans of other teams trek to NY to watch their teams play. Saint John's has about the worst fanbase of any major college BB program in the history of the universe and once the geriatrics in the red and white club keel over it wont have any fanbase at all. You might want to pretend like its still 1985 but it isn't.

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And while SJU's recent lack of success isn't anything to write home about, we have basketbsll history that was built competing against real competition, not Maac teams like Siena that cruised through their conference just about every year. 

Baloney. Saint John's has a recent history of getting the shit kicked out it by elite competition and holding its own against crap teams. Before that and throughout its entire history, except for a brief period between say 1980 and 1990, Louie won 20 a year by beating the stuffing out of schedule made up nearly wholly of creampuffs: NYU, Columbia, St Bonaventure, Niagara, Army, Fordham, Fairleigh ridiculous, etc. The level of competition he scheduled is exactly why he his teams were so so atrocious in the tournament, because he was forced to play teams that didn't suck.

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Siena is a decent school with a nice program.  I dont think they are the worst choice, but I think they'd be more attractive if they played in a better market.  I don't think they can ever grab any market share from Syracuse, and has little interest outside of the Albany area. 

Is the criteria for entry into the new and deconstructed BE that the team has to grab a marketshare from Syracuse? Because if so that would leave Saint John's out of the mix. Saint John's can't even outdraw Syracuse when they play at MSG.

News flash: Dayton garners little interest outside Dayton. Richmond garners little interest outside Richmond. And SJ garners little interest outside Queens. That's why we're joining this second rate conference in the first place. Otherwise we'd be in the ACC, with the rest of the good teams.

foad has established himself as the true voice of reality on these sites.

i'll inject a bit more.

1.  the current C7 is a league of mediocrities with no teams in the top ten and only two in the top 20.

2.  it's not the big east.  the real big east is signed on to play its tournament in the garden.  the atlantic 10 has taken the barclay's center.  nassau coliseum, anyone?  sure, the prudential center in newark is an answer.  it's in new jersey.  the jets and giants won't admit they play in new jersey...so you see how that goes.   

3.  we have a small fanbase whitewashing the walls with speculation on how taking a handful of teams from the atlantic 10 and other lesser conferences will create a sum greater than its parts.  so we move from the most powerful basketball league in the country to one of several in the second tier.  oh, the missed opportunities!

4.  worst of all, we have college presidents who know NOTHING about hoops creating a new conference.  it's like asking athletic directors to create a new med school.  even worse is reading that father harrington is in the vanguard of building the league.  this is the same FH who destroyed st john's basketball for a decade.  he started the siena rumor because he wanted to go to tuscany every year. 

this isn't good, folks.

What are you injecting Newsie?  You saying we should or shouldn't go after Siena?   As far as the garden goes, that deal was brokered before the split.  Im pretty sure new plans will be made when the new conference gets going that involve MSG.  I don't think schools like UCF and Tulane will be playing their yearly conference tourney there.

The new league will be solid and IMO not the A-10.  Still don't see Siena in any part of the equation.  Not at all. 

Quote from: LJSA on February 18, 2013, 02:53:59 AM

If this whole process started a few years ago, I have no doubt Siena would be one of the five teams in. But timing is everything, and their time has unfortunately passed. I'm sure my choice of head coach changed weekly, but McCaffery was my top choice for a while and Siena was one of the most fun teams in the nation to watch for a while there. But things unfortunately changed and there is no way they are a candidate.

Is their weak hoops history and current poor state any less impressive than where Uconn was when the new BE let them in?  I like the idea of picking a school out of Cuse's backyard and pulling them up along with the great hoops that this league will produce with MSG and the cities of the northeast as the home base of the league.  If they win a bit the Albany / Saratoga area can be as strong the Hartford area. 

I know it's not happening, but with it would be cool to take a shot at the Cuse base.  Cuse won't get the same treatment from their new North Carolina friends - their road to winning in that league is filled with pot holes.  And winning is necessary for fan support. It is the only thing that matters.  Just look at the the Cuse teams that could not win.  Most of the people in the seats are fair weather fans.

A home game for Siena vs a St. John's, gtown, nova, Marquette, or butler will get 10,000 fans easily. They really could explode. Just would need the backing and funding of the school to compete.

MCN, the C7 is definitely not the A10, they were lucky to get Butler and VCU for the time being. The C7 is also not the Big East that exists today.
All seven schools did the right thing and the only thing to do.
The new conference will be competitive and get about half the teams into the NCAA's on a yearly basis.
Not more you can ask for.
We will add the very best of schools that don't play D1 football.
The west thing is a complicated issue, would love Gonzaga and perhaps St. Mary's but just don't see it working at this time.

The west thing is a complicated issue, would love Gonzaga and perhaps St. Mary's but just don't see it working at this time.

For the record.... I agree wit evrytin in this sentence.

Since when is Albany in Syracuse's backyard?

Syracuse is about as threatened by Siena basketball as the Giants are by Rutgers' football program.   

Also I'm with Ted and choz, I like the idea of st Mary's and gonzaga but don't see it happening.   Maybe if they joined for basketball only, and could keep their other sports in the wcc. 

MCN, the C7 is definitely not the A10, they were lucky to get Butler and VCU for the time being. The C7 is also not the Big East that exists today.
All seven schools did the right thing and the only thing to do.
The new conference will be competitive and get about half the teams into the NCAA's on a yearly basis.
Not more you can ask for.
We will add the very best of schools that don't play D1 football.
The west thing is a complicated issue, would love Gonzaga and perhaps St. Mary's but just don't see it working at this time.

The C7 isn't as strong as the A10.

Desco, it's an out on a limb projection and not a comparison of where the two programs are today.  In 1984 nobody would have projected Uconn to do anything close to what they accomplished.

Poison - based on the TV contract projections for the new league the networks dont agree with you.

I havent posted on this thread- rather waiting to see how it plays out over the next 6 months.
 The breakup method, Big East name, exit fees, shared fees of earlier exiters should be topic 1A,
which is what I assume is actually being done 1st

I hope initially they cap it at 9-10 schools at 1st & dont water down the product.
It doesnt not have to be an even # of teams at 1st.
Which teams they invite should be in discussion with the TV network's input.

Which of the 6-8 mentioned teams have the biggest following & will help get a bigger TV contract.

Invite the 2-3 best at 1st- you can expand  in 2-3 years after on solid footing.

Desco, it's an out on a limb projection and not a comparison of where the two programs are today.  In 1984 nobody would have projected Uconn to do anything close to what they accomplished.

Poison - based on the TV contract projections for the new league the networks dont agree with you.

I'm curious to see who sends more team's to the dance, and which teams go further. As it stands now, GTown and Marquette are in. St.John's needs another winning streak just to be considered, and Nova has a pretty decent chance as well. Seton Hall, Depaul, and Providence have no chance at all.

Temple, VCU and Butler may not have basketball history and pedigree of our top teams, but they certainly better at the actual game. We may have a TV deal for this C7 conference, but we haven't earned it.

The C7 isn't as strong as the A10.

The bottom of the A10 is really, really bad.

Quote from: sju89tr on February 18, 2013, 10:14:46 AM

MCN, the C7 is definitely not the A10, they were lucky to get Butler and VCU for the time being. The C7 is also not the Big East that exists today.
All seven schools did the right thing and the only thing to do.
The new conference will be competitive and get about half the teams into the NCAA's on a yearly basis.
Not more you can ask for.
We will add the very best of schools that don't play D1 football.
The west thing is a complicated issue, would love Gonzaga and perhaps St. Mary's but just don't see it working at this time.

The C7 isn't as strong as the A10.

G'Town > Butler
Marquette > VCU
Villanova > Xavier
St. John's > Any other A10 program

Providence and Seton Hall are both better programs than any others in the A10 besides the top 3 schools.

Kind of a stupid post.

Poison - Providence is closing late.  They are not out of the dance. 

At any rate, worst case scenario is two out of seven - 30%.  This places the new league right in the race with the big leagues.

The TV contract is a big factor.  Besides the money, it brings the new league exposure.

Quote from: Poison on February 18, 2013, 11:28:14 AM

Quote from: sju89tr on February 18, 2013, 10:14:46 AM

MCN, the C7 is definitely not the A10, they were lucky to get Butler and VCU for the time being. The C7 is also not the Big East that exists today.
All seven schools did the right thing and the only thing to do.
The new conference will be competitive and get about half the teams into the NCAA's on a yearly basis.
Not more you can ask for.
We will add the very best of schools that don't play D1 football.
The west thing is a complicated issue, would love Gonzaga and perhaps St. Mary's but just don't see it working at this time.

The C7 isn't as strong as the A10.

G'Town > Butler
Marquette > VCU
Villanova > Xavier
St. John's > Any other A10 program

Providence and Seton Hall are both better programs than any others in the A10 besides the top 3 schools.

Kind of a stupid post.

I see a trend...

C7 versus A10.  with the C7 at least the math works as 7=7.  A10 can't add as 10=16.

Not to worry as the A10 will get its math correct and 10=10 as Temple goes to BE-FB plus UNCC would like to expand FB--ergo BE-FB.  C7 with their new name will take 4.  All that is left for the A-10 are the bottom of the barrel but a conference none the less.

As to MSG--A-10 as it is currently is set up has the Barclay's which probably has an out  (as does MSG) for significant changes in he conference.  The MSG question will be settled when the Garden decides if it wants watered down BB of the revised BE or does it want the core of the old BE BB schools playing at the Garden or the Barclay's.

C7 will be taking the best of the A10 so I don't see what the argument is.  As of now the C7 is looking at minimum to have 2 of the 7 in the dance if not 3 or 4 of 7.  This is in a league competing with the best schools in the country.  We will add schools that are capable basketball programs and the product won't be watered down I don't think as all will be focused on elevating their basketball programs. 

Quote from: Poison on February 18, 2013, 11:28:14 AM

Quote from: sju89tr on February 18, 2013, 10:14:46 AM

MCN, the C7 is definitely not the A10, they were lucky to get Butler and VCU for the time being. The C7 is also not the Big East that exists today.
All seven schools did the right thing and the only thing to do.
The new conference will be competitive and get about half the teams into the NCAA's on a yearly basis.
Not more you can ask for.
We will add the very best of schools that don't play D1 football.
The west thing is a complicated issue, would love Gonzaga and perhaps St. Mary's but just don't see it working at this time.

The C7 isn't as strong as the A10.

G'Town > Butler
Marquette > VCU
Villanova > Xavier
St. John's > Any other A10 program

Providence and Seton Hall are both better programs than any others in the A10 besides the top 3 schools.

Kind of a stupid post.

I disagree with every comparison you made. Every one of them. Talk to me about GTown when they can get out of the first round. Forget the A10, Butler is one of the best programs in the entire country. So is VCU.

Marquette is better than VCU? The Marqette team that lost to Florida by 43 effin points? Seton Hall? Are you nuts? They are terrible. Are you seriously bragging about Villanova? They are at best, a bubble team. We are not even a bubble team!!

You guys need to stop self medicating.

Quote from: redstorm212 on February 18, 2013, 01:08:13 PM

Quote from: Poison on February 18, 2013, 11:28:14 AM

Quote from: sju89tr on February 18, 2013, 10:14:46 AM

MCN, the C7 is definitely not the A10, they were lucky to get Butler and VCU for the time being. The C7 is also not the Big East that exists today.
All seven schools did the right thing and the only thing to do.
The new conference will be competitive and get about half the teams into the NCAA's on a yearly basis.
Not more you can ask for.
We will add the very best of schools that don't play D1 football.
The west thing is a complicated issue, would love Gonzaga and perhaps St. Mary's but just don't see it working at this time.

The C7 isn't as strong as the A10.

G'Town > Butler
Marquette > VCU
Villanova > Xavier
St. John's > Any other A10 program

Providence and Seton Hall are both better programs than any others in the A10 besides the top 3 schools.

Kind of a stupid post.

I see a trend...

You are a child

Quote from: Poison on February 18, 2013, 11:28:14 AM

The C7 isn't as strong as the A10.

The bottom of the A10 is really, really bad.

Choz, Depaul, Seton Hall and Rutgers or Fordham, Duquene or URI? I agree, the BE is stronger than that. But is that really the victory we need?
Maybe Rutgers and Seton Hall will make the CBI. Thor bottom 3 or 4 teams probably won't. So, clearly, we're better overall. But honestly, who cares? Who follows the CBI?

At the end of the day, GTown and Marquette are good programs, but they are not good enough to carry a conference.

You go to the finals in back to back seasons, you are great. No one can debate that.

C7 will be taking the best of the A10 so I don't see what the argument is.  As of now the C7 is looking at minimum to have 2 of the 7 in the dance if not 3 or 4 of 7.  This is in a league competing with the best schools in the country.  We will add schools that are capable basketball programs and the product won't be watered down I don't think as all will be focused on elevating their basketball programs. 

If we do that, we'll be okay. The minute we add VCU and Butler those teams will be the best teams in our conference.

 All of you guys bagging on the new conference, what is your alternative?  What should StJ and the rest of the non football schools done?   If you are going to knock everything at least offer up something you would recommend instead.

You guys sound like a bunch of old women sometimes.