Fordham Game Discussion

Fordham kept that close for 2 reasons last night.  Rebounding and our bad FT shooting.  One basket and its on the spread and we were out rebounded by 20.  Slash that in half hit a couple FT's its 20 pt game.

A Win is a Win.  Reset and forget it.  Rebounding is still our biggest weakness. There will be days when nothing goes in the hoop.  Defense and rebounding are a necessity to stay in those games.  Lucky for us we were playing Fordham today.

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Fordham kept that close for 2 reasons last night.  Rebounding and our bad FT shooting.  One basket and its on the spread and we were out rebounded by 20.  Slash that in half hit a couple FT's its 20 pt game.

Besides those, we shot like 27% in the first half against an awful defensive team, and I think we had like 3 three-point attempts in those 20 minutes. C'mon Moose. 

And I'm not sure where you get the idea that these guys have 'NO CHANCE' of hitting open 3-pointers. Any half-decent wing at this level can hit open shots at a somewhat respectable rate with practice and volume--and I'd guarantee that even the worst shooters will hit a 20 foot open shot from the corner at just a good rate as a 17 foot contested shot off the dribble(especially taking into account the extra point..).

Like I'm saying--our offensive gameplan these last three games has been absolutely atrocious, and it isn't just because of their execution. Are these guys being forced to stand 17 feet from the basket in practice? Does Taffner have a big enough court to practice 20 foot shots? I just think this gameplan would get us absolutely slaughtered vs. the better teams in the Big East when on paper we should have the athleticism on offensive and defensive prowess to stand toe to toe with them.

Quote from: MCNPA on December 09, 2012, 01:47:33 PM

Quote from: tnice on December 09, 2012, 01:37:40 PM

Quote from: nudginator59 on December 09, 2012, 11:39:26 AM

How was the crowd last night? How many people showed up to the game?

Lets put it this way...the crowd was so light that there was a lady with a huge stack of tickets standing in front of the escalator at the 100 level stopping anyone from going to the upper levels and swapping out their tickets for ones in the lower bowl. Maybe 5,000 total, 1/4 Fordham fans, ZERO energy in the place. We played freakin horrible ( more on that in a second), but its no coincidence that we started to pull away after Obekpa's jam and then JaKarr's breakaway. Gave the squad and the crowd some semblance of life and gave JaKarr some confidence.

I didnt notice the Lavin-DLo screaming match, but my biggest concern is not that his emotions are causing him to get into it with the coach. My biggest concern is that his emotions lead him to play dumb and take horrible shots, which is WHY he's getting into it with the coach. At one point last night he pulled up on a break where we had numbers and shot a three...wtf? We've all played ball with that guy who, if you D him up hard and he gets the ball anyway, its going up no matter what even if its a horrible shot, as if he's going to prove something to you. Thats DLo, the supposed leader of our team. Instead of using the attention he gets to free up others for easy hoops, he's forcing badly. Contrast that with Amir, who at some point last night was pissed and started playing pissed...but under control and productively.

As noted by others...love Phil, but man its unreal that still cant create for others. Some of that is instinctive, but its definitely a skill that can be taught, but either they're not teaching him or he's not getting it.

The positive..JaKarr is so impressive. He didnt shoot well last night but he didnt take bad shots... a few rattled in and out. Again, unlike DLo he lets it come to him in the flow of the game. He didnt get down after a tough start, knocked down a few jumpers in the second half and totally changed the game w the steal and dunk. I really like this kid. Cant wait to see him against big time competition.

Official attendance was 10,005...

5,000 for the first game, 5,000 for the second game.

Quote from: 0404 on December 09, 2012, 05:47:50 PM

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Fordham kept that close for 2 reasons last night.  Rebounding and our bad FT shooting.  One basket and its on the spread and we were out rebounded by 20.  Slash that in half hit a couple FT's its 20 pt game.

Besides those, we shot like 27% in the first half against an awful defensive team, and I think we had like 3 three-point attempts in those 20 minutes. C'mon Moose. 

And I'm not sure where you get the idea that these guys have 'NO CHANCE' of hitting open 3-pointers. Any half-decent wing at this level can hit open shots at a somewhat respectable rate with practice and volume--and I'd guarantee that even the worst shooters will hit a 20 foot open shot from the corner at just a good rate as a 17 foot contested shot off the dribble(especially taking into account the extra point..).

Like I'm saying--our offensive gameplan these last three games has been absolutely atrocious, and it isn't just because of their execution. Are these guys being forced to stand 17 feet from the basket in practice? Does Taffner have a big enough court to practice 20 foot shots? I just think this gameplan would get us absolutely slaughtered vs. the better teams in the Big East when on paper we should have the athleticism on offensive and defensive prowess to stand toe to toe with them.

And we were down 3 at the half considering how bad we shot the ball.  You can overcome bad shooting.  We showed that.  Rebounding and FT's turn that game into a laugher without even wasting a minute on the shooting.

Last 3 games we shot under 40%.  First 7 games we shot above 45%.  2 games above 55%.  Thats darn good.  No question the last 3 games have been an issue.  We are still shooting 45% for the year from the field tying us for 8th in the BE with Gtown.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/statistics/team/_/stat/field-goals/sort/fieldGoalPct/group/4

Quote from: Moose on December 09, 2012, 02:43:38 PM

Quote from: HowCouldUBeSoHarkless on December 08, 2012, 11:13:23 PM

I know he's a freshman, and I know its been 10 games. But I'm shocked at how bad Jones has looked these last few games. His blown dunk was crazy.

Honestly the blown dunk should be pointed at whoever took eternity to give him the ball.  It was a 3 on 1 with Dee on the wing setting up for a 3.  I think it was Greene I guess and he waited waited waited until he was well into the painted before passing it.  Horrible fast break execution.  Jones deserves blame for his lack of mixing it up down low but not for that missed dunk

Phil was 0 for 4 on fast break situations with the ball in his hands. He's horrible at the point he's a second string 2 guard at the power conference level. I've been saying this for a while.

Quote from: Chilleb on December 09, 2012, 04:03:40 PM

Quote from: Moose on December 09, 2012, 02:43:38 PM

Quote from: HowCouldUBeSoHarkless on December 08, 2012, 11:13:23 PM

I know he's a freshman, and I know its been 10 games. But I'm shocked at how bad Jones has looked these last few games. His blown dunk was crazy.

Honestly the blown dunk should be pointed at whoever took eternity to give him the ball.  It was a 3 on 1 with Dee on the wing setting up for a 3.  I think it was Greene I guess and he waited waited waited until he was well into the painted before passing it.  Horrible fast break execution.  Jones deserves blame for his lack of mixing it up down low but not for that missed dunk

Phil was 0 for 4 on fast break situations with the ball in his hands. He's horrible at the point he's a second string 2 guard at the power conference level. I've been saying this for a while.

Absolutely wrong.

Our biggest problem this year so far is our inability to guard white guys. Heslip hit about 20 threes against us and was left pretty much unguarded. It almost looked like the team did not even realize that it was the same guy banging in those threes. Then we go to San Fran and Robby Benson destroyed us. In case anyone has never seen the 2nd best basketball move ever made check out the final game in "One on One". Basically Robby Benson recreated that game against us. And even though we won the Big Kid on Fordham put a 15 and 16 on us.
It is a good thing we don't play Hickory High or the Minnesota Timberwolves this year becuase there is not telling what a team consisting of 5 white guys playing together would do to us.

He actually should. I like the jumper. Never seen a kid nail a three have an in and out theb never play again until couple seconds left in game. SJU is clearly prejudiced against guys who can shoot. Call it the curse of Ron Rowan. Since graduated the only two pure shooters we have had (Wright and my new cause Bourgalt) couldn't get consistent run.

He's got a real good shot.  When he misses its not far off.  Lot of in and outs.  I'm disappointed in his lack of minutes.  I hope Branch would give him looks but also the minutes are at the expense of who.  If only Marco was Max's height might make substitution patterns easier.

This is not going to be popular considering the love afair some on the board have with the two, but to me Pointer & Garrett are sort of redundant. I think you pick one and give him the minutes and play the other less. I don't see how you can have two 6-6 / 6-5 guys who have absolutely no jumper or really any offensive game getting big minutes.
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Garrett is much better than Pointer. I would agree that it was probably redundant to recruit both but we lack players right now so it doesn't matter.

It is kind of puzzling though that the last few games were great matchups to get Marco some burn but he is a real liability on the defensive end. 

Garrett is much better than Pointer. I would agree that it was probably redundant to recruit both but we lack players right now so it doesn't matter.

It is kind of puzzling though that the last few games were great matchups to get Marco some burn but he is a real liability on the defensive end. 


In the 5 minutes streches he has played has that really shown itself? I guess that must be the reason, but we play zone, and have a guy who blocks every shot playing behind him. I do not know why you can't get him 15 minutes a game?

Quote from: we are sju on December 10, 2012, 10:44:16 AM

Garrett is much better than Pointer. I would agree that it was probably redundant to recruit both but we lack players right now so it doesn't matter.

It is kind of puzzling though that the last few games were great matchups to get Marco some burn but he is a real liability on the defensive end. 


In the 5 minutes streches he has played has that really shown itself? I guess that must be the reason, but we play zone, and have a guy who blocks every shot playing behind him. I do not know why you can't get him 15 minutes a game?

I totally agree, it' puzzling, he should have played more with most of this out of conf schedule. Hopefully he finds his place in the rotation.

Quote from: sju89tr on December 10, 2012, 10:45:47 AM

Quote from: we are sju on December 10, 2012, 10:44:16 AM

Garrett is much better than Pointer. I would agree that it was probably redundant to recruit both but we lack players right now so it doesn't matter.

It is kind of puzzling though that the last few games were great matchups to get Marco some burn but he is a real liability on the defensive end. 


In the 5 minutes streches he has played has that really shown itself? I guess that must be the reason, but we play zone, and have a guy who blocks every shot playing behind him. I do not know why you can't get him 15 minutes a game?

I totally agree, it' puzzling, he should have played more with most of this out of conf schedule. Hopefully he finds his place in the rotation.

Yeah Marco needs to get some looks early.  You can see it, he has nice form. 

These slow starts are just flat mind boggling.  Yes they could use Branch and Sanchez, but no way they should shoot that poorly in the first half against Fordham and let them hang around that long.

Obekpa is amazing.  The insitincts to block shots is just unbelievable.  I will say that some of those blocked shots are the result of poor defensive positioning on his part however.  In other words he gets caught on a switch, ends up at the top of the kid guarding a shorter player.  Shot goes up and Fordham grabs the rebound because SJU big men are out of position for the defensive rebound.  Obepka comes back and blocks the put back.  Great block but again I prefer to get the initial rebound.

BTW-Moose was that you crashing the Fordham alumni drinkfest at Stout Saturday before the game??  Ha ha!!!

Quote from: Moose on December 09, 2012, 05:52:54 PM

Quote from: 0404 on December 09, 2012, 05:47:50 PM

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Fordham kept that close for 2 reasons last night.  Rebounding and our bad FT shooting.  One basket and its on the spread and we were out rebounded by 20.  Slash that in half hit a couple FT's its 20 pt game.

Besides those, we shot like 27% in the first half against an awful defensive team, and I think we had like 3 three-point attempts in those 20 minutes. C'mon Moose. 

And I'm not sure where you get the idea that these guys have 'NO CHANCE' of hitting open 3-pointers. Any half-decent wing at this level can hit open shots at a somewhat respectable rate with practice and volume--and I'd guarantee that even the worst shooters will hit a 20 foot open shot from the corner at just a good rate as a 17 foot contested shot off the dribble(especially taking into account the extra point..).

Like I'm saying--our offensive gameplan these last three games has been absolutely atrocious, and it isn't just because of their execution. Are these guys being forced to stand 17 feet from the basket in practice? Does Taffner have a big enough court to practice 20 foot shots? I just think this gameplan would get us absolutely slaughtered vs. the better teams in the Big East when on paper we should have the athleticism on offensive and defensive prowess to stand toe to toe with them.

And we were down 3 at the half considering how bad we shot the ball.  You can overcome bad shooting.  We showed that.  Rebounding and FT's turn that game into a laugher without even wasting a minute on the shooting.

Last 3 games we shot under 40%.  First 7 games we shot above 45%.  2 games above 55%.  Thats darn good.  No question the last 3 games have been an issue.  We are still shooting 45% for the year from the field tying us for 8th in the BE with Gtown.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/statistics/team/_/stat/field-goals/sort/fieldGoalPct/group/4

Moose, good post.  Even after three games when shots were not dropping, they still sit in the middle of the BE in shooting.  During the past ten years the StJ shooting percentages are always started near or at the bottom of the conference except for two years ago when they had a strong BE season.

Green, Sampson, Harrison and Garret have reliable outside shots.  All are young and will improve.  It should be a good year when the real games begin in January.