Bourgault and Hooper????

Quote from: gman on January 10, 2013, 01:27:42 PM

I don't have a problem having two spot up zone busters, but they need to run plays for them. I'm more over Dom. He has zero bball iq. He showed it time and time again last night and his ft shooting is terrible. I'd like to see his ship open up. Amir has much more upside.

Funny you say that about Dom coming off arguably he's 2nd best game of the year.  2-3 from the field.  7 boards.  6 of 8 from the line is solid.

Stats aside I saw him do a lot of dumb things. I'm just not a fan, name be he will prove me wrong.  He is an athlete but not a smart basketball player

Quote from: Moose on January 10, 2013, 01:29:47 PM

Quote from: gman on January 10, 2013, 01:27:42 PM

I don't have a problem having two spot up zone busters, but they need to run plays for them. I'm more over Dom. He has zero bball iq. He showed it time and time again last night and his ft shooting is terrible. I'd like to see his ship open up. Amir has much more upside.

Funny you say that about Dom coming off arguably he's 2nd best game of the year.  2-3 from the field.  7 boards.  6 of 8 from the line is solid.

Stats aside I saw him do a lot of dumb things. I'm just not a fan, name be he will prove me wrong.  He is an athlete but not a smart basketball player

He had 2 turnovers last night.  How many dumb things could he have done. 

No question he's an athlete and not a smart player.  Every couple games he has a good all around effort like last night.  Too far and few between however for arguably the highest ranked guy in last years class.

Quote from: gman on January 10, 2013, 01:42:41 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 10, 2013, 01:29:47 PM

Quote from: gman on January 10, 2013, 01:27:42 PM

I don't have a problem having two spot up zone busters, but they need to run plays for them. I'm more over Dom. He has zero bball iq. He showed it time and time again last night and his ft shooting is terrible. I'd like to see his ship open up. Amir has much more upside.

Funny you say that about Dom coming off arguably he's 2nd best game of the year.  2-3 from the field.  7 boards.  6 of 8 from the line is solid.

Stats aside I saw him do a lot of dumb things. I'm just not a fan, name be he will prove me wrong.  He is an athlete but not a smart basketball player

He had 2 turnovers last night.  How many dumb things could he have done. 

No question he's an athlete and not a smart player.  Every couple games he has a good all around effort like last night.  Too far and few between however for arguably the highest ranked guy in last years class.

The one play that comes to mind is towards the end of the first half he drove to the hoop, drew a double, and threw up a circus layup drawing a foul. I think he went 1 for 2 that trip. He had an easy dump to co for a dunk but didn't have the smarts to see the slide and make the pass. That isn't a to in the box score but a dumb play to me.

Quote from: STJFAN on January 10, 2013, 01:02:45 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 10, 2013, 12:54:35 PM

Kerr and Paxson had Jordan. We don't have those dynamic players' right now. How did Kerr's game look when he didn't play with Jordan? Same player different results. Kerr would tell you today his career lasted longer than it should have if not for playing with Jordan.

Not sure what this has to do with Bourgalt or Hooper, but Kerr then went on two win two more titles with the Spurs. He actually won 4 titles in a row at one point between Bulls and Spurs. Only player not on 1960 Celts dynasty to accomplish that.

Oh so the bulls and Spurs won those titles because of Kerr, ok. My point is this, Kerr averaged 3.6 pts a game during his time with the Spurs, he averaged 8 pts a game with the Bulls. If your game is limited to being a jump shooter (Bourgalt, and maybe Hooper) then you will benefit from playing with a dynamic player who commands so much more attention that it creates those scoring oppurtunities for them. We dont have that now, but we will in do time.

Why are you talking about their NBA numbers?
Kerr shot 57% from 3 his Sr year at Zona.  57!!!!  That still only got him drafted 50th overall.  I don't care about what they did in the NBA.  Lavin said numerous times that Marco reminded him of Kerr and Paxson.  I like Marco but he's nothing but a decoy for us now.  And even that Lavin hasn't figured out yet.

*** we do have that dynamic player.  Its Branch who isn't afraid to penetrate and has vision to make a pass.  But he only played 8 mins last night.

My point on the numbers is that shooters who are limited benefit from playing with other more dynamic players'. Kerr in the NBA = Marco in college. Although Marco may remind him of Kerr doesn't mean he is as good as he was. Branch will help as he has the ability to drive and kick. I saw them setting screens for Marco last night, he can't get open!!!! Please watch the tape guys, Marco can't get open and it not because we're not setting screens for him. It's because Marco is not quick enough and can't get separation.

Quote from: Moose on January 10, 2013, 01:05:15 PM

Quote from: STJFAN on January 10, 2013, 01:02:45 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 10, 2013, 12:54:35 PM

Kerr and Paxson had Jordan. We don't have those dynamic players' right now. How did Kerr's game look when he didn't play with Jordan? Same player different results. Kerr would tell you today his career lasted longer than it should have if not for playing with Jordan.

Not sure what this has to do with Bourgalt or Hooper, but Kerr then went on two win two more titles with the Spurs. He actually won 4 titles in a row at one point between Bulls and Spurs. Only player not on 1960 Celts dynasty to accomplish that.

Oh so the bulls and Spurs won those titles because of Kerr, ok. My point is this, Kerr averaged 3.6 pts a game during his time with the Spurs, he averaged 8 pts a game with the Bulls. If your game is limited to being a jump shooter (Bourgalt, and maybe Hooper) then you will benefit from playing with a dynamic player who commands so much more attention that it creates those scoring oppurtunities for them. We dont have that now, but we will in do time.

Why are you talking about their NBA numbers?
Kerr shot 57% from 3 his Sr year at Zona.  57!!!!  That still only got him drafted 50th overall.  I don't care about what they did in the NBA.  Lavin said numerous times that Marco reminded him of Kerr and Paxson.  I like Marco but he's nothing but a decoy for us now.  And even that Lavin hasn't figured out yet.

*** we do have that dynamic player.  Its Branch who isn't afraid to penetrate and has vision to make a pass.  But he only played 8 mins last night.

My point on the numbers is that shooters who are limited benefit from playing with other more dynamic players'. Kerr in the NBA = Marco in college. Although Marco may remind him of Kerr doesn't mean he is as good as he was. Branch will help as he has the ability to drive and kick. I saw them setting screens for Marco last night, he can't get open!!!! Please watch the tape guys, Marco can't get open and it not because we're not setting screens for him. It's because Marco is not quick enough and can't get separation.

I don't tape games.  Sitting thru them is enough torture for me.

Marco can't get open and it not because we're not setting screens for him. It's because Marco is not quick enough and can't get separation.

If you are saying that he is not quick enough to get open on screens then Lavin should be fired for recruiting the slowest man on Earth. He might not have a quick release ( I am not sure having seem his shoot less than 10 x), but that is irrelevant as mostly he spends his 4 minutes set up in the corner.

Quote from: paultzman on January 10, 2013, 09:05:46 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 10, 2013, 08:31:14 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 10, 2013, 08:22:57 AM

Quote from: newsman13 on January 10, 2013, 08:15:22 AM

greene was always inconsistant...now he's a total liability.

branch should use up ALL his minutes.  bourgault...who can at least hit free throws...should be given major minutes. 

i don't know what goes on in practice, except no one is staying later to work on free throws.  if roberts was still coaching we'd be all over him right now.

Lavin's coach and we are all over him.
The honeymoon is over.

Lavin has made some very poor choices. And he's still making them.
Greene has to sit. He's killing this team.

Double amen!

I haven't been a fan of Greene's game since last year.  I was hoping after the first game that things had changed, but I was mistaken.  His minutes need to go to someone else.  He is hurting us out there and needs a wake up call.

+97578444 AMEN !!!!

Marco can't get open and it not because we're not setting screens for him. It's because Marco is not quick enough and can't get separation.

If you are saying that he is not quick enough to get open on screens then Lavin should be fired for recruiting the slowest man on Earth. He might not have a quick release ( I am not sure having seem his shoot less than 10 x), but that is irrelevant as mostly he spends his 4 minutes set up in the corner.

Be that as it may, screens are being set for him. He's a piece of a puzzle, not the answer. Once we get better players' aroung him, shooters will be valuable, it may not happen this year though. Also at some point its up to the player to make a play. Lavin cant make Marco shoot the ball when its in his hands. When he touches the ball, he does nothing with it, fine, sit on the bench next to Coach. Coach cant force players to make a move and shoot the ball.   

One bright side from the Rutgers game was Harrison's passing. And I think if this continues, Marco could benefit. Harrison seems to be understanding than when defenses double or collapse on him, there's gotta be someone wide open somewhere on the court. And last night, Harrison was finding them.

Quote from: gman on January 10, 2013, 01:42:41 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 10, 2013, 01:29:47 PM

Quote from: gman on January 10, 2013, 01:27:42 PM

I don't have a problem having two spot up zone busters, but they need to run plays for them. I'm more over Dom. He has zero bball iq. He showed it time and time again last night and his ft shooting is terrible. I'd like to see his ship open up. Amir has much more upside.

Funny you say that about Dom coming off arguably he's 2nd best game of the year.  2-3 from the field.  7 boards.  6 of 8 from the line is solid.

Stats aside I saw him do a lot of dumb things. I'm just not a fan, name be he will prove me wrong.  He is an athlete but not a smart basketball player

He had 2 turnovers last night.  How many dumb things could he have done. 

No question he's an athlete and not a smart player.  Every couple games he has a good all around effort like last night.  Too far and few between however for arguably the highest ranked guy in last years class.

Moose I hear you but when your a top 30 recruit getting 20+ minutes a bit more consistency is expected from you, let's not baby Dom with his 2nd best performance last night of the season. When colleges enroll projected honor roll students who turn out to be really 1.8 GPA students they don't praise them once the GPA goes to 1.9, they are dismissed. This team is in need of that every night plus more and he doesn't show up. Like what is lavin doing? Did he recruit Dom to be a undersized 4? Oh wait what about the point guard talk before the season? As loyal fans I think we deserve answers, clarity and a better product. Greene must sit, Dom must sit.

Quote from: Moose on January 10, 2013, 01:44:52 PM

Quote from: gman on January 10, 2013, 01:42:41 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 10, 2013, 01:29:47 PM

Quote from: gman on January 10, 2013, 01:27:42 PM

I don't have a problem having two spot up zone busters, but they need to run plays for them. I'm more over Dom. He has zero bball iq. He showed it time and time again last night and his ft shooting is terrible. I'd like to see his ship open up. Amir has much more upside.

Funny you say that about Dom coming off arguably he's 2nd best game of the year.  2-3 from the field.  7 boards.  6 of 8 from the line is solid.

Stats aside I saw him do a lot of dumb things. I'm just not a fan, name be he will prove me wrong.  He is an athlete but not a smart basketball player

He had 2 turnovers last night.  How many dumb things could he have done. 

No question he's an athlete and not a smart player.  Every couple games he has a good all around effort like last night.  Too far and few between however for arguably the highest ranked guy in last years class.

Moose I hear you but when your a top 30 recruit getting 20+ minutes a bit more consistency is expected from you, let's not baby Dom with his 2nd best performance last night of the season. When colleges enroll projected honor roll students who turn out to be really 1.8 GPA students they don't praise them once the GPA goes to 1.9, they are dismissed. This team is in need of that every night plus more and he doesn't show up. Like what is lavin doing? Did he recruit Dom to be a undersized 4? Oh wait what about the point guard talk before the season? As loyal fans I think we deserve answers, clarity and a better product. Greene must sit, Dom must sit.

I'm not babying him.  Just laying facts on the table.  Tough to say he should sit after his game last night.  Tough to say he's bad from the line when he went 6-8 last night. Etc....

Agree with all else you said.

Quote from: Chilleb on January 10, 2013, 03:12:30 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 10, 2013, 01:44:52 PM

Quote from: gman on January 10, 2013, 01:42:41 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 10, 2013, 01:29:47 PM

Quote from: gman on January 10, 2013, 01:27:42 PM

I don't have a problem having two spot up zone busters, but they need to run plays for them. I'm more over Dom. He has zero bball iq. He showed it time and time again last night and his ft shooting is terrible. I'd like to see his ship open up. Amir has much more upside.

Funny you say that about Dom coming off arguably he's 2nd best game of the year.  2-3 from the field.  7 boards.  6 of 8 from the line is solid.

Stats aside I saw him do a lot of dumb things. I'm just not a fan, name be he will prove me wrong.  He is an athlete but not a smart basketball player

He had 2 turnovers last night.  How many dumb things could he have done. 

No question he's an athlete and not a smart player.  Every couple games he has a good all around effort like last night.  Too far and few between however for arguably the highest ranked guy in last years class.

Moose I hear you but when your a top 30 recruit getting 20+ minutes a bit more consistency is expected from you, let's not baby Dom with his 2nd best performance last night of the season. When colleges enroll projected honor roll students who turn out to be really 1.8 GPA students they don't praise them once the GPA goes to 1.9, they are dismissed. This team is in need of that every night plus more and he doesn't show up. Like what is lavin doing? Did he recruit Dom to be a undersized 4? Oh wait what about the point guard talk before the season? As loyal fans I think we deserve answers, clarity and a better product. Greene must sit, Dom must sit.

I'm not babying him.  Just laying facts on the table.  Tough to say he should sit after his game last night.  Tough to say he's bad from the line when he went 6-8 last night. Etc....

Agree with all else you said.

Why as fans have we begin to put back on the ( settle for less) norm Roberts attitude and be satisfied with those types of performances, if the kid would have went for 18 10 and 6 then we give him some due for a breakout game like that, but those numbers are futile and should just speak more of how much of a bust he's been so far. When Dom was first recruited here none of us though that we would be praising a breakout game of 10 and 7 for him half way thru season 2 and he's been healthy since day 1.

Quote from: Moose on January 10, 2013, 03:18:46 PM

Quote from: Chilleb on January 10, 2013, 03:12:30 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 10, 2013, 01:44:52 PM

Quote from: gman on January 10, 2013, 01:42:41 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 10, 2013, 01:29:47 PM

Quote from: gman on January 10, 2013, 01:27:42 PM

I don't have a problem having two spot up zone busters, but they need to run plays for them. I'm more over Dom. He has zero bball iq. He showed it time and time again last night and his ft shooting is terrible. I'd like to see his ship open up. Amir has much more upside.

Funny you say that about Dom coming off arguably he's 2nd best game of the year.  2-3 from the field.  7 boards.  6 of 8 from the line is solid.

Stats aside I saw him do a lot of dumb things. I'm just not a fan, name be he will prove me wrong.  He is an athlete but not a smart basketball player

He had 2 turnovers last night.  How many dumb things could he have done. 

No question he's an athlete and not a smart player.  Every couple games he has a good all around effort like last night.  Too far and few between however for arguably the highest ranked guy in last years class.

Moose I hear you but when your a top 30 recruit getting 20+ minutes a bit more consistency is expected from you, let's not baby Dom with his 2nd best performance last night of the season. When colleges enroll projected honor roll students who turn out to be really 1.8 GPA students they don't praise them once the GPA goes to 1.9, they are dismissed. This team is in need of that every night plus more and he doesn't show up. Like what is lavin doing? Did he recruit Dom to be a undersized 4? Oh wait what about the point guard talk before the season? As loyal fans I think we deserve answers, clarity and a better product. Greene must sit, Dom must sit.

I'm not babying him.  Just laying facts on the table.  Tough to say he should sit after his game last night.  Tough to say he's bad from the line when he went 6-8 last night. Etc....

Agree with all else you said.

Why as fans have we begin to put back on the ( settle for less) norm Roberts attitude and be satisfied with those types of performances, if the kid would have went for 18 10 and 6 then we give him some due for a breakout game like that, but those numbers are futile and should just speak more of how much of a bust he's been so far. When Dom was first recruited here none of us though that we would be praising a breakout game of 10 and 7 for him half way thru season 2 and he's been healthy since day 1.

Where did I say breakout?  I said it was one of his two or three best games of the year.  That's a fact.  You want him and you want Phil sitting.  Who do you want to play exactly.

As much as it sucks were 1-2 in conference all 3 games came down to 1 possession.

Last I checked last night we barely hit 50 points and Harrison as always had the bulk.  I'd point a finger to Karr last night who is same age as Pointer and more of offensive threat.  He hasn't done anything in 3 BE games.  All I wanted from Dom was a slight improvement YOY.  Not seeing it.  Plenty of stats I'm sure show players peak end of 2nd year into 3rd.  Im sure there a tons of examples that show it sooner as well.  Its not a cut and dry scenario. 

Quote from: Moose on January 10, 2013, 01:29:47 PM

Quote from: gman on January 10, 2013, 01:27:42 PM

I don't have a problem having two spot up zone busters, but they need to run plays for them. I'm more over Dom. He has zero bball iq. He showed it time and time again last night and his ft shooting is terrible. I'd like to see his ship open up. Amir has much more upside.

Funny you say that about Dom coming off arguably he's 2nd best game of the year.  2-3 from the field.  7 boards.  6 of 8 from the line is solid.

Stats aside I saw him do a lot of dumb things. I'm just not a fan, name be he will prove me wrong.  He is an athlete but not a smart basketball player

As a team we do too many dumb things. How about D'Lo at the head of a break, pulling up for a three with no one near him. And missing everything. Did I see that right. Couldn't believe it. That turned into a precursor of the last few plays where he tried to win it all by himself. Wasn't necessary.

Quote from: gman on January 10, 2013, 01:42:41 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 10, 2013, 01:29:47 PM

Quote from: gman on January 10, 2013, 01:27:42 PM

I don't have a problem having two spot up zone busters, but they need to run plays for them. I'm more over Dom. He has zero bball iq. He showed it time and time again last night and his ft shooting is terrible. I'd like to see his ship open up. Amir has much more upside.

Funny you say that about Dom coming off arguably he's 2nd best game of the year.  2-3 from the field.  7 boards.  6 of 8 from the line is solid.

Stats aside I saw him do a lot of dumb things. I'm just not a fan, name be he will prove me wrong.  He is an athlete but not a smart basketball player

As a team we do too many dumb things. How about D'Lo at the head of a break, pulling up for a three with no one near him. And missing everything. Did I see that right. Couldn't believe it. That turned into a precursor of the last few plays where he tried to win it all by himself. Wasn't necessary.

Wasn't necessary but honestly.  The alternative would have been pulling it out.  Giving it to Phil for 30 seconds and arguably hoisting up bad shot 30 seconds later.  When he shoots the chances of going in are exponentially better.  So fire away Dee, fire away.  Plus I think he knew the defender was behind him.  He was expecting contact I think from behind.

As a team we do too many dumb things. How about D'Lo at the head of a break, pulling up for a three with no one near him. And missing everything. Did I see that right. Couldn't believe it. That turned into a precursor of the last few plays where he tried to win it all by himself. Wasn't necessary.

Havent tracked it, but I think D'Lo pullin up from 3 on the break is one of STJ's higher percentage shots.

Honestly I am more comfortable with a bad Harrison shot over any other shot by anone else on this team outside of an uncontested dunk.

For Bourgault, 0 shot attempts in five minutes played. No one on the court is looking to set him up.

For Bourgault, 0 shot attempts in five minutes played. No one on the court is looking to set him up.

Was the only time he touched the ball the Tyson Chandler esque tip rebound he had?

Quote from: derk on January 10, 2013, 03:50:44 PM

As a team we do too many dumb things. How about D'Lo at the head of a break, pulling up for a three with no one near him. And missing everything. Did I see that right. Couldn't believe it. That turned into a precursor of the last few plays where he tried to win it all by himself. Wasn't necessary.

Havent tracked it, but I think D'Lo pullin up from 3 on the break is one of STJ's higher percentage shots.

Correct.  He's better pull up than being set.