Greene Injury

Branch moves the ball around, and looks to pass it ahead on the break. Phill does neither.

And Phil keeps the ball stationary, looks at the girl with the D-cups in the 1st row and passes it backwards on the break.  Ludicrous.   

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 17, 2013, 01:08:03 PM

Branch moves the ball around, and looks to pass it ahead on the break. Phill does neither.

And Phil keeps the ball stationary, looks at the girl with the D-cups in the 1st row and passes it backwards on the break.  Ludicrous.   

A chick with D's at a st john's game? never

Quote from: section3 on January 17, 2013, 12:48:58 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 14, 2013, 10:49:19 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 14, 2013, 10:05:20 AM

Well everyone got what they've been clammoring for in the last game as point guard Populare played 29 minutes to 16 for Mean joe.

We promptly responded with our worst offensive output of the season.   

The blowout was much more on Garrett, Sampson, Pointer and Obekpa, because they had ability to score. Still, Branch didn't penetrate enough. He needs to get in the lane, and make something happen. I saw him trying to direct the players on the court. But mostly, they just stood around being sad.

Branch did his job...lowest output had nothing to do with him...he pentrated and passed to guys like Garrett, PG4 who either missed wide open shots or worse pass them up...not his fault

So in summary, if Branch doesn't get any assists and the offensive produces 50 points it's because his offensively challenged teamates couldn't finish his great passes.  But when Mean Joe played point and the offense struggled and his assist totals aren't Jackson like it's because he's the worst point ever and he dribbles in circles.

Ok.  Now I understand.

Obviously you dont...big difference between creating an open shot and dribbling until the clock is about to run out...Huge difference

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 17, 2013, 12:53:55 PM

Quote from: section3 on January 17, 2013, 12:48:58 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 14, 2013, 10:49:19 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 14, 2013, 10:05:20 AM

Well everyone got what they've been clammoring for in the last game as point guard Populare played 29 minutes to 16 for Mean joe.

We promptly responded with our worst offensive output of the season.   

The blowout was much more on Garrett, Sampson, Pointer and Obekpa, because they had ability to score. Still, Branch didn't penetrate enough. He needs to get in the lane, and make something happen. I saw him trying to direct the players on the court. But mostly, they just stood around being sad.

Branch did his job...lowest output had nothing to do with him...he pentrated and passed to guys like Garrett, PG4 who either missed wide open shots or worse pass them up...not his fault

So in summary, if Branch doesn't get any assists and the offensive produces 50 points it's because his offensively challenged teamates couldn't finish his great passes.  But when Mean Joe played point and the offense struggled and his assist totals aren't Jackson like it's because he's the worst point ever and he dribbles in circles.

Ok.  Now I understand.

Obviously you dont...big difference between creating an open shot and dribbling until the clock is about to run out...Huge difference

This creating an open shot you speak of is a myth.  Branch had ONE, yes ONE, count'em ONE assist in his 31 minutes of the huge ND win.  Mean Joe doubled his assist total with 2 and doubled his asst/to ration 2:1 to 1:1.

Wait a minute I almost forgot.  Branch doesn't have to actually produce as a point guard because lo and behold he passes the eye test whatever that is. 

Quote from: section3 on January 17, 2013, 09:25:40 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 17, 2013, 12:53:55 PM

Quote from: section3 on January 17, 2013, 12:48:58 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 14, 2013, 10:49:19 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 14, 2013, 10:05:20 AM

Well everyone got what they've been clammoring for in the last game as point guard Populare played 29 minutes to 16 for Mean joe.

We promptly responded with our worst offensive output of the season.   

The blowout was much more on Garrett, Sampson, Pointer and Obekpa, because they had ability to score. Still, Branch didn't penetrate enough. He needs to get in the lane, and make something happen. I saw him trying to direct the players on the court. But mostly, they just stood around being sad.

Branch did his job...lowest output had nothing to do with him...he pentrated and passed to guys like Garrett, PG4 who either missed wide open shots or worse pass them up...not his fault

So in summary, if Branch doesn't get any assists and the offensive produces 50 points it's because his offensively challenged teamates couldn't finish his great passes.  But when Mean Joe played point and the offense struggled and his assist totals aren't Jackson like it's because he's the worst point ever and he dribbles in circles.

Ok.  Now I understand.

Obviously you dont...big difference between creating an open shot and dribbling until the clock is about to run out...Huge difference

This creating an open shot you speak of is a myth.  Branch had ONE, yes ONE, count'em ONE assist in his 31 minutes of the huge ND win.  Mean Joe doubled his assist total with 2 and doubled his asst/to ration 2:1 to 1:1.

Wait a minute I almost forgot.  Branch doesn't have to actually produce as a point guard because lo and behold he passes the eye test whatever that is. 

It's a valid point Carmine has.  I'm a big fan of basing decisions on empirical evidence.  If Branch really is the better play the stats should show that. 

But my response Carmine would be for you to look at the plus minus numbers.  We were simply a better team with Branch on the floor than Phil.   That's the proof right there. 

But I agree with you... Eye test judgements are excuses for bias.   

Also, I like Branch, and want him to continue starting....but even his biggest fans on here should admit he needs to stop turning the ball over unnecessarily. 
He threw two atrociously lazy passes in the ND game that made me scream at the tv.  Both were careless entry passes to Jakarr at the foul line. 

Whenever I see a post that speaks of "screaming at the TV", I cringe. These are home games and our fans need to be screaming for the team at the Garden, not home screaming at the TV. The attendance at the ND game , against a  top 20 team, with a real shot at us winning, was pathethic.

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 18, 2013, 12:18:52 AM

Quote from: section3 on January 17, 2013, 09:25:40 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 17, 2013, 12:53:55 PM

Quote from: section3 on January 17, 2013, 12:48:58 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 14, 2013, 10:49:19 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 14, 2013, 10:05:20 AM

Well everyone got what they've been clammoring for in the last game as point guard Populare played 29 minutes to 16 for Mean joe.

We promptly responded with our worst offensive output of the season.   

The blowout was much more on Garrett, Sampson, Pointer and Obekpa, because they had ability to score. Still, Branch didn't penetrate enough. He needs to get in the lane, and make something happen. I saw him trying to direct the players on the court. But mostly, they just stood around being sad.

Branch did his job...lowest output had nothing to do with him...he pentrated and passed to guys like Garrett, PG4 who either missed wide open shots or worse pass them up...not his fault

So in summary, if Branch doesn't get any assists and the offensive produces 50 points it's because his offensively challenged teamates couldn't finish his great passes.  But when Mean Joe played point and the offense struggled and his assist totals aren't Jackson like it's because he's the worst point ever and he dribbles in circles.

Ok.  Now I understand.

Obviously you dont...big difference between creating an open shot and dribbling until the clock is about to run out...Huge difference

This creating an open shot you speak of is a myth.  Branch had ONE, yes ONE, count'em ONE assist in his 31 minutes of the huge ND win.  Mean Joe doubled his assist total with 2 and doubled his asst/to ration 2:1 to 1:1.

Wait a minute I almost forgot.  Branch doesn't have to actually produce as a point guard because lo and behold he passes the eye test whatever that is. 

It's a valid point Carmine has.  I'm a big fan of basing decisions on empirical evidence.  If Branch really is the better play the stats should show that. 

But my response Carmine would be for you to look at the plus minus numbers.  We were simply a better team with Branch on the floor than Phil.   That's the proof right there. 

But I agree with you... Eye test judgements are excuses for bias.   

Also, I like Branch, and want him to continue starting....but even his biggest fans on here should admit he needs to stop turning the ball over unnecessarily. 
He threw two atrociously lazy passes in the ND game that made me scream at the tv.  Both were careless entry passes to Jakarr at the foul line. 

Assists are a two way deal. Branch can find the open man all he wants, his teammates have to hit the shots.

Branch needs to continue to penetrate. He has to do it even more. Finding the open man if it's Amir, Chris or Dom is pointless because they can't shoot. We can't expect more than one jumper each game from them. These guys are slashers, so Branch must create so that they can work it inside.

I thought the ball movement was improved. If it keeps improving we'll win more games against good teams.

Whenever I see a post that speaks of "screaming at the TV", I cringe. These are home games and our fans need to be screaming for the team at the Garden, not home screaming at the TV. The attendance at the ND game , against a  top 20 team, with a real shot at us winning, was pathethic.

Thanks, that was really helpful.   
I assume then that the next time I can't make a game because I have hours of work to take home, you'll come over and hammer that out for me, right? 
Gee, I only wish I knew this Wednesday so I could've used the season tickets I pay for. 

Quote from: desco80 on January 18, 2013, 12:44:15 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 18, 2013, 12:18:52 AM

Quote from: section3 on January 17, 2013, 09:25:40 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 17, 2013, 12:53:55 PM

Quote from: section3 on January 17, 2013, 12:48:58 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 14, 2013, 10:49:19 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 14, 2013, 10:05:20 AM

Well everyone got what they've been clammoring for in the last game as point guard Populare played 29 minutes to 16 for Mean joe.

We promptly responded with our worst offensive output of the season.   

The blowout was much more on Garrett, Sampson, Pointer and Obekpa, because they had ability to score. Still, Branch didn't penetrate enough. He needs to get in the lane, and make something happen. I saw him trying to direct the players on the court. But mostly, they just stood around being sad.

Branch did his job...lowest output had nothing to do with him...he pentrated and passed to guys like Garrett, PG4 who either missed wide open shots or worse pass them up...not his fault

So in summary, if Branch doesn't get any assists and the offensive produces 50 points it's because his offensively challenged teamates couldn't finish his great passes.  But when Mean Joe played point and the offense struggled and his assist totals aren't Jackson like it's because he's the worst point ever and he dribbles in circles.

Ok.  Now I understand.

Obviously you dont...big difference between creating an open shot and dribbling until the clock is about to run out...Huge difference

This creating an open shot you speak of is a myth.  Branch had ONE, yes ONE, count'em ONE assist in his 31 minutes of the huge ND win.  Mean Joe doubled his assist total with 2 and doubled his asst/to ration 2:1 to 1:1.

Wait a minute I almost forgot.  Branch doesn't have to actually produce as a point guard because lo and behold he passes the eye test whatever that is. 

It's a valid point Carmine has.  I'm a big fan of basing decisions on empirical evidence.  If Branch really is the better play the stats should show that. 

But my response Carmine would be for you to look at the plus minus numbers.  We were simply a better team with Branch on the floor than Phil.   That's the proof right there. 

But I agree with you... Eye test judgements are excuses for bias.   

Also, I like Branch, and want him to continue starting....but even his biggest fans on here should admit he needs to stop turning the ball over unnecessarily. 
He threw two atrociously lazy passes in the ND game that made me scream at the tv.  Both were careless entry passes to Jakarr at the foul line. 

Assists are a two way deal. Branch can find the open man all he wants, his teammates have to hit the shots.

Agreed.  Mr. Greenjeans is fortunate he gets to play with a much better shooting team than Branch.  That pumps up his assist #s.

It's a valid point Carmine has.

Please mark this important first for me on your calanders. 

Branch needs to continue to penetrate. He has to do it even more. Finding the open man if it's Amir, Chris or Dom is pointless because they can't shoot. We can't expect more than one jumper each game from them. These guys are slashers, so Branch must create so that they can work it inside.

I thought the ball movement was improved. If it keeps improving we'll win more games against good teams.

Disagree with your point that it is pointless to pass to Garret, CO, or Pointer.  Two of them put the ball in the hoop at a nice clip and they do shoot well for second year kids.  A few on this board kill them, but every team in this league would trade for them. 

Branch seems to look for his own shot - he does shoot very well.  The last few games there have been a blanket of defenders on Harrison.  Branch is not able to feed him the ball so he’s taking it himself.  Also, he just played decent minutes for the first time.

Pointer on the other hand does a real good job passing to the open man in a good position to score.  He also ran a break and executed against ND well at a key point in the game.

Quote from: desco80 on January 18, 2013, 12:44:15 AM

It's a valid point Carmine has.

Please mark this important first for me on your calanders. 

Haha it's true though.  Some people are making the difference between Branch and Phil to be night and day.
It's not.  We're talking shades of gray.   If one was THAT much better then the stats would show it.

With that said, I do think Branch is a good pg and I hope he starts every game for the rest of the season 

Quote from: Poison on January 18, 2013, 11:51:18 AM

Branch needs to continue to penetrate. He has to do it even more. Finding the open man if it's Amir, Chris or Dom is pointless because they can't shoot. We can't expect more than one jumper each game from them. These guys are slashers, so Branch must create so that they can work it inside.

I thought the ball movement was improved. If it keeps improving we'll win more games against good teams.

Disagree with your point that it is pointless to pass to Garret, CO, or Pointer.  Two of them put the ball in the hoop at a nice clip and they do shoot well for second year kids.  A few on this board kill them, but every team in this league would trade for them. 

Branch seems to look for his own shot - he does shoot very well.  The last few games there have been a blanket of defenders on Harrison.  Branch is not able to feed him the ball so he’s taking it himself.  Also, he just played decent minutes for the first time.

Pointer on the other hand does a real good job passing to the open man in a good position to score.  He also ran a break and executed against ND well at a key point in the game.

I'm not suggesting that Amir, Chris and Dom stop getting the ball. I'm talking about jump shots. Often, one will be left wide open for a jumper, and taking that shot shouldn't be our game. By penetrating more, Branch will force the D to collapse on him. You can make things happen when you can get into the lane. I happen to think that both Amir and Dom can drive and finish, but they will not have that option if every defender is willing to give them that 10 foot jumpers at all times. Different plays are needed. The ones that call for jump shots by guys who can't hit them should be cut down significantly.

Run them for Jones and Bourgault. At least that makes sense.

Quote from: section3 on January 17, 2013, 09:25:40 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 17, 2013, 12:53:55 PM

Quote from: section3 on January 17, 2013, 12:48:58 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 14, 2013, 10:49:19 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 14, 2013, 10:05:20 AM

Well everyone got what they've been clammoring for in the last game as point guard Populare played 29 minutes to 16 for Mean joe.

We promptly responded with our worst offensive output of the season.   

The blowout was much more on Garrett, Sampson, Pointer and Obekpa, because they had ability to score. Still, Branch didn't penetrate enough. He needs to get in the lane, and make something happen. I saw him trying to direct the players on the court. But mostly, they just stood around being sad.

Branch did his job...lowest output had nothing to do with him...he pentrated and passed to guys like Garrett, PG4 who either missed wide open shots or worse pass them up...not his fault

So in summary, if Branch doesn't get any assists and the offensive produces 50 points it's because his offensively challenged teamates couldn't finish his great passes.  But when Mean Joe played point and the offense struggled and his assist totals aren't Jackson like it's because he's the worst point ever and he dribbles in circles.

Ok.  Now I understand.

Obviously you dont...big difference between creating an open shot and dribbling until the clock is about to run out...Huge difference

This creating an open shot you speak of is a myth.  Branch had ONE, yes ONE, count'em ONE assist in his 31 minutes of the huge ND win.  Mean Joe doubled his assist total with 2 and doubled his asst/to ration 2:1 to 1:1.

Wait a minute I almost forgot.  Branch doesn't have to actually produce as a point guard because lo and behold he passes the eye test whatever that is. 

Myth in your eyes...seems like most others on the board see the difference

If you are of the believe that there isn't much of a difference between Greene and Branch at the point, you clearly do not know what you are looking at. Greene is the worst point guard we've had since Tarik Turner.

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 18, 2013, 12:18:52 AM

Quote from: section3 on January 17, 2013, 09:25:40 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 17, 2013, 12:53:55 PM

Quote from: section3 on January 17, 2013, 12:48:58 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 14, 2013, 10:49:19 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 14, 2013, 10:05:20 AM

Well everyone got what they've been clammoring for in the last game as point guard Populare played 29 minutes to 16 for Mean joe.

We promptly responded with our worst offensive output of the season.   

The blowout was much more on Garrett, Sampson, Pointer and Obekpa, because they had ability to score. Still, Branch didn't penetrate enough. He needs to get in the lane, and make something happen. I saw him trying to direct the players on the court. But mostly, they just stood around being sad.

Branch did his job...lowest output had nothing to do with him...he pentrated and passed to guys like Garrett, PG4 who either missed wide open shots or worse pass them up...not his fault

So in summary, if Branch doesn't get any assists and the offensive produces 50 points it's because his offensively challenged teamates couldn't finish his great passes.  But when Mean Joe played point and the offense struggled and his assist totals aren't Jackson like it's because he's the worst point ever and he dribbles in circles.

Ok.  Now I understand.

Obviously you dont...big difference between creating an open shot and dribbling until the clock is about to run out...Huge difference

This creating an open shot you speak of is a myth.  Branch had ONE, yes ONE, count'em ONE assist in his 31 minutes of the huge ND win.  Mean Joe doubled his assist total with 2 and doubled his asst/to ration 2:1 to 1:1.

Wait a minute I almost forgot.  Branch doesn't have to actually produce as a point guard because lo and behold he passes the eye test whatever that is. 

Myth in your eyes...seems like most others on the board see the difference

What say you about all of the statistical evidence I've presented to support my argument?

He has looked good to me and seems to be getting more comfortable. He will adjust to the Big East style of play.

Greene hasn't been the same for a while and I don't think it has anything to do with the teams we have played

It's also not his fault the staff puts the ball in his hands when he isnt capable of being a 30 min point guard with his skill set

Completely agree.  I think that Green has more heart than ny one on this team.  He never pouts, and plays whatever role the staff wants him to play.  He has played hurt and has never even used it as an excuse. He came to this program with the least hype ( lowest high school rating) and has performed more than admirably.  The staff has put him in the PG role when Harrison certainly had more skills for that position.

Quote from: section3 on January 17, 2013, 09:25:40 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 17, 2013, 12:53:55 PM

Quote from: section3 on January 17, 2013, 12:48:58 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 14, 2013, 10:49:19 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 14, 2013, 10:05:20 AM

Well everyone got what they've been clammoring for in the last game as point guard Populare played 29 minutes to 16 for Mean joe.

We promptly responded with our worst offensive output of the season.   

The blowout was much more on Garrett, Sampson, Pointer and Obekpa, because they had ability to score. Still, Branch didn't penetrate enough. He needs to get in the lane, and make something happen. I saw him trying to direct the players on the court. But mostly, they just stood around being sad.

Branch did his job...lowest output had nothing to do with him...he pentrated and passed to guys like Garrett, PG4 who either missed wide open shots or worse pass them up...not his fault

So in summary, if Branch doesn't get any assists and the offensive produces 50 points it's because his offensively challenged teamates couldn't finish his great passes.  But when Mean Joe played point and the offense struggled and his assist totals aren't Jackson like it's because he's the worst point ever and he dribbles in circles.

Ok.  Now I understand.

Obviously you dont...big difference between creating an open shot and dribbling until the clock is about to run out...Huge difference

This creating an open shot you speak of is a myth.  Branch had ONE, yes ONE, count'em ONE assist in his 31 minutes of the huge ND win.  Mean Joe doubled his assist total with 2 and doubled his asst/to ration 2:1 to 1:1.

Wait a minute I almost forgot.  Branch doesn't have to actually produce as a point guard because lo and behold he passes the eye test whatever that is. 

Ever hear of the expression-statistics are for losers?  As for the eye test-ie-watching a football game and the quarterback throws two beautiful passes that go right through his receivers hand-at end of day he has 2 ints on his record but the eye test showed both ints were not his fault. But guess you have to know the game to see beyond statistics. See 1969 Mets. Timely hitting. Al Weiss hits one homer in the whole season-in the WS.

Back to earth today......