Sanchez Still in the 2nd Row

SJU will never sue the NCAA. The consequences are too severe long term even if it wins. Sanchez could. But it will take years to resolve--he does not have the time to see it to conclusion. It will also take legal fees. SJU can't pay those fees for a student. If Sanchez gets the funds from a third party, that raises eligibility issues of its own. So the only course is what Orr is doing. Media pressure (which is already happening), rational arguments, equity, cajoling and subtle not explicit threats to sue. The deck is stacked against the player and the school. Even if Sanchez sued and won a preliminary  injunction allowing him to play pending a trial on the merits down the road--years down the road the way our trial system works---the school can't take the chance and allow him to play because if the trial ultimately  goes against Sanchez, and he is ruled ineligible, SJU would forfeit all its wins and all the revenues it gained during the games Sanchez played. Those are the facts.

Different era, but STJ took the NCAA to court over the eligibility of one Walter Berry.

Quote from: loughlinguy on February 23, 2013, 09:24:56 PM

SJU will never sue the NCAA. The consequences are too severe long term even if it wins. Sanchez could. But it will take years to resolve--he does not have the time to see it to conclusion. It will also take legal fees. SJU can't pay those fees for a student. If Sanchez gets the funds from a third party, that raises eligibility issues of its own. So the only course is what Orr is doing. Media pressure (which is already happening), rational arguments, equity, cajoling and subtle not explicit threats to sue. The deck is stacked against the player and the school. Even if Sanchez sued and won a preliminary  injunction allowing him to play pending a trial on the merits down the road--years down the road the way our trial system works---the school can't take the chance and allow him to play because if the trial ultimately  goes against Sanchez, and he is ruled ineligible, SJU would forfeit all its wins and all the revenues it gained during the games Sanchez played. Those are the facts.

Different era, but STJ took the NCAA to court over the eligibility of one Walter Berry.

I'd wonder if it still does with all the defections and the way its been dragged thru the mud recently.

IMO its not worth the $ or the fight.  The earlier exit date is more important and finalizing the teams, office, commissioner etc...  And MSG is vital but again they want us and have out in their 'Big East' contract with all the defections.

law suit by Sanchez could be based on antrust laws

True a lawsuit on behalf of Sanchez would most likely  be based on age discrimination and antitrust (based on violations of the sherman act and clayton act).  Antitrust is a very hard road to go down especially with the NCAA.  I can get into details if anyone would like since I just had to research the topic but it would be quite long winded and boring. Litigation at this point does not make sense for a number of reasons but the most important one being timing.  A court case could go on years and Sanchez doesn't have that.  I'm more optimistic than ever that this will be positively be resolved

Quote from: loughlinguy on February 24, 2013, 09:48:49 AM

law suit by Sanchez could be based on antrust laws

True a lawsuit on behalf of Sanchez would most likely  be based on age discrimination and antitrust (based on violations of the sherman act and clayton act).  Antitrust is a very hard road to go down especially with the NCAA.  I can get into details if anyone would like since I just had to research the topic but it would be quite long winded and boring. Litigation at this point does not make sense for a number of reasons but the most important one being timing.  A court case could go on years and Sanchez doesn't have that.  I'm more optimistic than ever that this will be positively be resolved

It would likely be antitrust and possibly age discrimination issues. These antitrust suits takes YEARS and Orlando would be 30 before it is ready to go to Trial.

I think the hiring of Orr is to put heat on the NCAA and get the,m to grant a waiver under the current exemptions allowed.

He will get his year back so that this matter can end quietly for the NCAA.

However there are times when the NCAA digs their feet in the sand like they did last year with the Center who transferred from Martelli. O'Brien?

This issue will come down to a similar philosophy that they use to deem a hardship transfer waiver based on the new information supplied by attorney Orr. We all know this is horseshit as the same information was available to them earlier in this season but they will get a new perspective on the same information.       

Not a litigator, but don't see how an age discrimination suit would fly. Sanchez isn't part of a protected class.

Not a litigator, but don't see how an age discrimination suit would fly. Sanchez isn't part of a protected class.

The only way I could see it is if a federal court decided that the separation of their by laws for under 21 and over 21 is not constitutional. However that would open a whole can of worms and a lengthy appeal process.

This stuff is out of my league   

It's a private company. They can choose to enslave whoever they choose, provided that slave wants to be enslaved.

I can't see how Sanchez has any sort of chance of success in litigation, but I have a thought on his best prospect.     
The federal discrimination laws only apply to persons over 40, there's no protection for younger workers as far as I know.   And age isn't a protected class, constitutionally, so I don't see a discrimination suit going anywhere. 

And an anti-trust action seems like a non-starter too.  I looked into it real briefly but it appears courts are unanimous in holding that any eligibility rulings or restrictions are legal under anti-trust statutes because it doesn't involve any type of "business activity".  The only areas where the NCAA has ever been ruled against is when they've limited coaches salaries or the ability of schools/conferences to make their own media contracts, or set ticket prices.   Cts give a ton of deference to the NCAA on eligibility issues apparently.   (anyone who wants to can have at it.. 845 F.2d at 1345-36; 101 F.3d at 1318-20 )

If he wanted to be creative though I think he could look to the state constitution or contract law.
Equal protection is a lot broader under NYS law, although I don't know the specifics.  But, it would be worth looking into.
And, tell me what you guys think of this theory..
Agreements between the NCAA and it's member schools are enforceable contracts no?  Assuming they are, that would include the NCAA's constitution and bylaws. 
Wouldn't student athletes be intended beneficiaries of those contracts?   And, therefore wouldn't they have the right to bring a contract action of their own as third party beneficiaries?
If he really wanted to reach, he could argue that by acting in bad faith, or being arbitrary/capricious in their decision, they breached.
Thoughts?

All in all though, I'd assume it's going nowhere unless his attorney is just trying to put public pressure on the ncaa. 

Apparently Lavin doesn't regret red shirting Gift. I like Lavin, but this horrible decision is on him.

Interesting to see Sanchez for the first time I can recall all year shooting prior to the game.  While waiting for Pitt to come out him and Max were playing around.  I've seen Max dribble and shoot prior to games and halves but never Sanchez until today.

Interesting to see Sanchez for the first time I can recall all year shooting prior to the game.  While waiting for Pitt to come out him and Max were playing around.  I've seen Max dribble and shoot prior to games and halves but never Sanchez until today.

Sanchez was hitting NBA 3s... effortlessly.

He was much more animated, talking to all the guys on the team, getting pats on the back, etc. I have seen him shoot before games, but not recently. What does this mean? Not much, but it appears he feels better about the public outcry, news coverage and support of SJU. Where it goes, who knows. I hang my hat on NCAA not wanting further bad press after Miami debacle, the UCLA cases, etc. and giving Sanchez back a year. Then again, I am a fan.

Quote from: Moose on February 24, 2013, 04:31:27 PM

Interesting to see Sanchez for the first time I can recall all year shooting prior to the game.  While waiting for Pitt to come out him and Max were playing around.  I've seen Max dribble and shoot prior to games and halves but never Sanchez until today.

Sanchez was hitting NBA 3s... effortlessly.

I've seen him shoot before a few games, usually way beforehand though.

Quote from: redmen4life on February 24, 2013, 04:44:11 PM

Quote from: Moose on February 24, 2013, 04:31:27 PM

Interesting to see Sanchez for the first time I can recall all year shooting prior to the game.  While waiting for Pitt to come out him and Max were playing around.  I've seen Max dribble and shoot prior to games and halves but never Sanchez until today.

Sanchez was hitting NBA 3s... effortlessly.

I've seen him shoot before a few games, usually way beforehand though.

Yea.
This time it was while Pitt was waiting to come right out.  For a lot to see.

He was much more animated, talking to all the guys on the team, getting pats on the back, etc. I have seen him shoot before games, but not recently. What does this mean? Not much, but it appears he feels better about the public outcry, news coverage and support of SJU. Where it goes, who knows. I hang my hat on NCAA not wanting further bad press after Miami debacle, the UCLA cases, etc. and giving Sanchez back a year. Then again, I am a fan.

Also as a fan, I would love it too!  Maybe the NCAA could reinstate him because in doing so it would put the STUDENT back in student athlete--something that has been forgotten for a long time.  Anyone want to go back to freshmen ineligible for varsity ball?  Loved those freshmen BB games back in the day.

He was much more animated, talking to all the guys on the team, getting pats on the back, etc. I have seen him shoot before games, but not recently. What does this mean? Not much, but it appears he feels better about the public outcry, news coverage and support of SJU. Where it goes, who knows. I hang my hat on NCAA not wanting further bad press after Miami debacle, the UCLA cases, etc. and giving Sanchez back a year. Then again, I am a fan.

Agree, I think they want to try to get this moved through.  In Orlando's case, the NCAA looks particularly bad and heartless.  It looks like they screwed the kid.  I think the threat of pushing the issue legally might be enough to get him a year as the press for the NCAA has certainly been less than flattering.

Quote from: loughlinguy on February 23, 2013, 09:24:56 PM

SJU will never sue the NCAA. The consequences are too severe long term even if it wins. Sanchez could. But it will take years to resolve--he does not have the time to see it to conclusion. It will also take legal fees. SJU can't pay those fees for a student. If Sanchez gets the funds from a third party, that raises eligibility issues of its own. So the only course is what Orr is doing. Media pressure (which is already happening), rational arguments, equity, cajoling and subtle not explicit threats to sue. The deck is stacked against the player and the school. Even if Sanchez sued and won a preliminary  injunction allowing him to play pending a trial on the merits down the road--years down the road the way our trial system works---the school can't take the chance and allow him to play because if the trial ultimately  goes against Sanchez, and he is ruled ineligible, SJU would forfeit all its wins and all the revenues it gained during the games Sanchez played. Those are the facts.

Different era, but STJ took the NCAA to court over the eligibility of one Walter Berry.

And lost.

I hope the person on the Sanchez case isnt on the NCAA selection committee.

I hope the person on the Sanchez case isnt on the NCAA selection committee.

Jackie Chiles as been named

Quote from: Moose on February 24, 2013, 04:31:27 PM

Interesting to see Sanchez for the first time I can recall all year shooting prior to the game.  While waiting for Pitt to come out him and Max were playing around.  I've seen Max dribble and shoot prior to games and halves but never Sanchez until today.

Sanchez was hitting NBA 3s... effortlessly.

Maybe so, but his three point figures at Monroe were awful and Monroe had four kids just scorching the nets from deep, including my boy Davon Marshall who is averaging 13 ppg on 40% shooting (6.7 attempts) from deep for Liberty.