Pitt game discussion

Quote from: Choz4Life on February 24, 2013, 01:17:10 PM

You take the good, you take the bad, you take 'em both and there you have....

Phil

He managed to turn a nice start in to a pretty awful overall game.  Shame.   

No surprise...5 for 13 (or thereabouts) is like death and taxes...when he is inside 12-15 feet, he is fine...outside of that -- not so good...

Quote from: mjmaherjr on February 24, 2013, 06:04:18 PM

Quote from: STJ11Redmen on February 24, 2013, 06:00:06 PM

On a lighter note did anyone else see the exchange between Jim Burr and the fans in the front row?  He kicked one of them out and his friends kept riding Burr telling him Higgins is better and that he should retire, stuff like that.  Burr multiple times during the game shouted back at the guys, once during Amir Garrett's free throw attempt and then as he was running down the floor gave them a thumbs up.  After the game Burr runs right over to the guys and they start yelling at each other and security had to separate them and then Burr ran into the tunnel.  The guy belongs nowhere near a basketball floor, he is simply too old.

we saw the guy getting kicked out but missed that exchange at the end. Must have been funny to watch or listen to

Yeah the last minute of game time was just this guy and Burr going back and forth.  When he ran over to the guy I honestly thought they were gonna exchange shoves but security was right there to step in between then Wally Rutecki guided Burr into the tunnel.

Was the guy a st. john's or pitt fan?

Quote from: Redstormy80 on February 24, 2013, 09:21:44 PM

Quote from: Moose on February 24, 2013, 09:17:39 PM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on February 24, 2013, 09:13:30 PM

Quote from: Moose on February 24, 2013, 09:09:41 PM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on February 24, 2013, 09:00:46 PM

Quote from: Moose on February 24, 2013, 05:03:18 PM

Quote from: paultzman on February 24, 2013, 05:01:58 PM

My only comment is Pitt is a physical, well disciplined team with a solid offensive system. They may not score a ton of points, but against a zone, for example, have a very refined passing game with distinct roles for each player. In man, they bump, hedge well, push and physically wear you down. All in all, nicely coached.

On the way out I ran into a local HS coach of many years who kindly noted "SJU's offensive system must be a work in progress." Enough said.

Shouldnt be a work in progress this late in the year or year 2 since most of the kids were around.

I dont think its the offensive sets I think its that our guys still have limitations in their games.

Dribbling for 30 seconds around the perimeter is not a set.

Also should be playing to teams strengths.

Its not but if our guys games were further developed they wouldn't have that problem

Well then I'm not quite sure what to say.  Roll the ball out and let them free flow and play then?

Of course not but having offensive freedom can be very beneficial given the right parts. Problem is we dont have a guy who can get everyone involved, we aren't a great shooting team and dont have a low post threat. What kind of offense would you like to see them run?

I'm not a basketball expert.  Never claimed to be.  But as I've said numerous times this year our offense at times can be worse than waterboarding.  You don't see that when you watch other games and I watch a lot.

If we aren't a good shooting team why do we have 4 guys running weave around the perimeter and a team allergic to the paint?  There comes a point when your nose to spite your face by trying to fit the square into the circle with what we're running.  I'm sure there is a stat geek efficiency stat that shows that.

I'm not saying your wrong. I agree that our offense can be painful to watch and it does seem that we have to work extremely hard for baskets. Could there be more structure? Of course but I think its possible win this style. I also think that what we do is also a result of personel.

Not sure if its the reason but I think we keep guys out on the perimeter for spacing. This opens up driving lanes which is what is the easiest way for us to score.

A decent offensive system results in good shots. Pitt certainly got a high % of good shots. I don't think we had good opportunities. Rather, as a result of holding ball too often until shot clock expired, most of our shots were off balance, rushed and without men under boards for put backs. Too often the wrong folks get the ball or players in poor position. We just can't rely on steals and breakaways as offensive staples. Sooner or later someone has to construct a half court offense. Just my opinion.

I'm a fan of Harrison, but his games against the better teams this year have been pretty bad on the whole. I thought maybe it was just a funk that he was in, but maybe this is just what he can do (or can't do) when good teams are deternined to take him out of the game.

Some of it is a product of having no post presence...teams don't even concern themselves with "the paint"

Quote from: STJ11Redmen on February 24, 2013, 08:16:57 PM

Quote from: mjmaherjr on February 24, 2013, 06:04:18 PM

Quote from: STJ11Redmen on February 24, 2013, 06:00:06 PM

On a lighter note did anyone else see the exchange between Jim Burr and the fans in the front row?  He kicked one of them out and his friends kept riding Burr telling him Higgins is better and that he should retire, stuff like that.  Burr multiple times during the game shouted back at the guys, once during Amir Garrett's free throw attempt and then as he was running down the floor gave them a thumbs up.  After the game Burr runs right over to the guys and they start yelling at each other and security had to separate them and then Burr ran into the tunnel.  The guy belongs nowhere near a basketball floor, he is simply too old.

we saw the guy getting kicked out but missed that exchange at the end. Must have been funny to watch or listen to

Yeah the last minute of game time was just this guy and Burr going back and forth.  When he ran over to the guy I honestly thought they were gonna exchange shoves but security was right there to step in between then Wally Rutecki guided Burr into the tunnel.

Was the guy a st. john's or pitt fan?

They were St. John's fans sitting where Spike Lee does for the Knicks.  The one guy was wearing an NBA ref uniform and mocking Burr the entire game.  There was one play in front of him where Greene was going after a loose ball and didn't come down with it and this guy was furious and started yelling at Burr for not calling a travel.  Burr then pointed to him and told security to eject him.  At that point his friends started getting on Burr because they were pissed their buddy got the boot and that led to a back and forth and Burr eventually confronting them at the end of the game.

Quote from: redstorm89 on February 24, 2013, 09:29:16 PM

Quote from: STJ11Redmen on February 24, 2013, 08:16:57 PM

Quote from: mjmaherjr on February 24, 2013, 06:04:18 PM

Quote from: STJ11Redmen on February 24, 2013, 06:00:06 PM

On a lighter note did anyone else see the exchange between Jim Burr and the fans in the front row?  He kicked one of them out and his friends kept riding Burr telling him Higgins is better and that he should retire, stuff like that.  Burr multiple times during the game shouted back at the guys, once during Amir Garrett's free throw attempt and then as he was running down the floor gave them a thumbs up.  After the game Burr runs right over to the guys and they start yelling at each other and security had to separate them and then Burr ran into the tunnel.  The guy belongs nowhere near a basketball floor, he is simply too old.

we saw the guy getting kicked out but missed that exchange at the end. Must have been funny to watch or listen to

Yeah the last minute of game time was just this guy and Burr going back and forth.  When he ran over to the guy I honestly thought they were gonna exchange shoves but security was right there to step in between then Wally Rutecki guided Burr into the tunnel.

Was the guy a st. john's or pitt fan?

They were St. John's fans sitting where Spike Lee does for the Knicks.  The one guy was wearing an NBA ref uniform and mocking Burr the entire game.  There was one play in front of him where Greene was going after a loose ball and didn't come down with it and this guy was furious and started yelling at Burr for not calling a travel.  Burr then pointed to him and told security to eject him.  At that point his friends started getting on Burr because they were pissed their buddy got the boot and that led to a back and forth and Burr eventually confronting them at the end of the game.

I know the guys.  They gave a real sarcastic cheer in the last minute when Pitt was called for a foul.  Next to them was Tarik Turner and a few seats down Repole.

A decent offensive system results in good shots. Pitt certainly got a high % of good shots. I don't think we had good opportunities. Rather, as a result of holding ball too often until shot clock expired, most of our shots were off balance, rushed and without men under boards for put backs. Too often the wrong folks get the ball or players in poor position. We just can't rely on steals and breakaways as offensive staples. Sooner or later someone has to construct a half court offense. Just my opinion.

What puzzles me is...presumably the "false motion" offense (whatever that means) has a purpose...but we seem to execute with no purpose...the cuts and obligatory hand wave seem to be run "for the heck of it" and the movement and passes at the top lack any crispness. I'm no expert but I would think we would be looking to create a "shell game" effect making the defense work hard, cause confusion and take advantage of opportunities such as a mismatch or a open lane to the basket...

Quote from: paultzman on February 24, 2013, 09:32:52 PM

A decent offensive system results in good shots. Pitt certainly got a high % of good shots. I don't think we had good opportunities. Rather, as a result of holding ball too often until shot clock expired, most of our shots were off balance, rushed and without men under boards for put backs. Too often the wrong folks get the ball or players in poor position. We just can't rely on steals and breakaways as offensive staples. Sooner or later someone has to construct a half court offense. Just my opinion.

What puzzles me is...presumably the "false motion" offense (whatever that means) has a purpose...but we seem to execute with no purpose...the cuts and obligatory hand wave seem to be run "for the heck of it" and the movement and passes at the top lack any crispness. I'm no expert but I would think we would be looking to create a "shell game" effect making the defense work hard, cause confusion and take advantage of opportunities such as a mismatch or a open lane to the basket...

Agree completely section 3. There has been times this season, though few and far between, where we have run it with urgency. Some of our guys move the a
Ball quick enough for it to be affective, like d Lo, branch, Marco, and jones. Others are ball stoppers like Greene, JaKarr, and Obekpa. If the team would just commit to constant ball movement and urgency with their cuts than their offense would be much more effective.

Quote from: section3 on February 24, 2013, 10:00:59 PM

Quote from: paultzman on February 24, 2013, 09:32:52 PM

A decent offensive system results in good shots. Pitt certainly got a high % of good shots. I don't think we had good opportunities. Rather, as a result of holding ball too often until shot clock expired, most of our shots were off balance, rushed and without men under boards for put backs. Too often the wrong folks get the ball or players in poor position. We just can't rely on steals and breakaways as offensive staples. Sooner or later someone has to construct a half court offense. Just my opinion.

What puzzles me is...presumably the "false motion" offense (whatever that means) has a purpose...but we seem to execute with no purpose...the cuts and obligatory hand wave seem to be run "for the heck of it" and the movement and passes at the top lack any crispness. I'm no expert but I would think we would be looking to create a "shell game" effect making the defense work hard, cause confusion and take advantage of opportunities such as a mismatch or a open lane to the basket...

Agree completely section 3. There has been times this season, though few and far between, where we have run it with urgency. Some of our guys move the a
Ball quick enough for it to be affective, like d Lo, branch, Marco, and jones. Others are ball stoppers like Greene, JaKarr, and Obekpa. If the team would just commit to constant ball movement and urgency with their cuts than their offense would be much more effective.

+ 1 on both posts!

No true PG or low post presence.  Add Branch and Orlando, and my guess is that our offense looks a zillion years better.

Quote from: Marillac on February 24, 2013, 04:24:32 PM

The only kid that can create a shot on this team against top competition is Phil Greene. 

He certainly can create them. It's just a shame he can't make them.

I really don't get the constant knocking of Phil Greene in this site.  Without Greene we would have been ran out of the first half.  This team is awful offensively.  Dom and Sampson are completely out of control on the perimeter and are good for a dozen combined terrible decisions a game.  Harrison can't seperate from a defender athletically and when they are just as strong as him, he's screwed.  We have no big on the roster that is a threat down low. 

Obviously we would all like to have Eric Barkley, but we don't.  Greene single-handedly kept this game respectable.  Without Greene it would have been a layup line for Pitt.  There is very skill offensively on this team.  The last person that should be knocked is Phil Greene.

Quote from: Foad on February 24, 2013, 05:01:33 PM

Quote from: Marillac on February 24, 2013, 04:24:32 PM

The only kid that can create a shot on this team against top competition is Phil Greene. 

He certainly can create them. It's just a shame he can't make them.

I really don't get the constant knocking of Phil Greene in this site.  Without Greene we would have been ran out of the first half.  This team is awful offensively.  Dom and Sampson are completely out of control on the perimeter and are good for a dozen combined terrible decisions a game.  Harrison can't seperate from a defender athletically and when they are just as strong as him, he's screwed.  We have no big on the roster that is a threat down low. 

Obviously we would all like to have Eric Barkley, but we don't.  Greene single-handedly kept this game respectable.  Without Greene it would have been a layup line for Pitt.  There is very skill offensively on this team.  The last person that should be knocked is Phil Greene.

  Come on Marillac.  He's the root of everything that goes wrong on the court. Seriously, it's true.. I read it on here.

 :prepares for 12 posts about dribbling in circles and 5-13 shooting nights. :

I really don't get the constant knocking of Phil Greene in this site. 

You don't get it?  I thought you were a basketball coach or something? He shoots 35 percent from the floor, 25 percent from three, and spends 10 minutes a game dribbling around in circles looking for the opportunity to miss all those shots. Despite being the alleged PG, he refuses to pass the ball and always looks for his own shot first. Oh yeah and he's an awful defender. Does that help?

Without Greene we would have been ran out of the first half.  This team is awful offensively.  Dom and Sampson are completely out of control on the perimeter and are good for a dozen combined terrible decisions a game.  Harrison can't seperate from a defender athletically and when they are just as strong as him, he's screwed.  We have no big on the roster that is a threat down low. 

Obviously we would all like to have Eric Barkley, but we don't.  Greene single-handedly kept this game respectable.  Without Greene it would have been a layup line for Pitt.

Respectable? They lost by nearly 20 points, at home, in the most important game of the year, while scoring under 50 points. There's nothing respectable about that. And in the second half, when they were getting blown out, Greene missed 6 of 7 shots and turned the ball over three times.

This game also displayed how bad we need Rysheed Jordan and to get Orlando Sanchez eligible next year. 

Quote from: Marillac on February 25, 2013, 12:23:15 AM

I really don't get the constant knocking of Phil Greene in this site. 

You don't get it?  I thought you were a basketball coach or something? He shoots 35 percent from the floor, 25 percent from three, and spends 10 minutes a game dribbling around in circles looking for the opportunity to miss all those shots. Despite being the alleged PG, he refuses to pass the ball and always looks for his own shot first. Oh yeah and he's an awful defender. Does that help?

Quote

Without Greene we would have been ran out of the first half.  This team is awful offensively.  Dom and Sampson are completely out of control on the perimeter and are good for a dozen combined terrible decisions a game.  Harrison can't seperate from a defender athletically and when they are just as strong as him, he's screwed.  We have no big on the roster that is a threat down low. 

Obviously we would all like to have Eric Barkley, but we don't.  Greene single-handedly kept this game respectable.  Without Greene it would have been a layup line for Pitt.

Respectable? They lost by nearly 20 points, at home, in the most important game of the year, while scoring under 50 points. There's nothing respectable about that. And in the second half, when they were getting blown out, Greene missed 6 of 7 shots and turned the ball over three times.

Thanks for the 2nd half split.  Saved me time this morning to look them up.

This game also displayed how bad we need Rysheed Jordan and to get Orlando Sanchez eligible next year.

Exactly. We're only a high school senior and a guy on Social Security away from respectability.

I really don't get the constant knocking of Phil Greene in this site.  Without Greene we would have been ran out of the first half.  This team is awful offensively.  Dom and Sampson are completely out of control on the perimeter and are good for a dozen combined terrible decisions a game.  Harrison can't separate from a defender athletically and when they are just as strong as him, he's screwed.  We have no big on the roster that is a threat down low. 

Obviously we would all like to have Eric Barkley, but we don't.  Greene single-handedly kept this game respectable.  Without Greene it would have been a layup line for Pitt.  There is very skill offensively on this team.  The last person that should be knocked is Phil Greene.


Well lets see.
Greene is successful with 35% of his shots
If a QB completed 35% of his passes he would be 15% worse than Mark Sanchez
If a coach won 35% of his games he would be Norm Roberts
If a kid got 35% on a test he would fail
If a batter was successful 35% of the time eventually he will fail a PED test and be suspended
If you satisfy your girl 35% of the time, you will eventually be single.
35% is not good. And that is w/o mentioning the circle dribbling.
He played better the game he went 0-7.

I really don't get the constant knocking of Phil Greene in this site.  Without Greene we would have been ran out of the first half.  This team is awful offensively.  Dom and Sampson are completely out of control on the perimeter and are good for a dozen combined terrible decisions a game.  Harrison can't separate from a defender athletically and when they are just as strong as him, he's screwed.  We have no big on the roster that is a threat down low. 

Obviously we would all like to have Eric Barkley, but we don't.  Greene single-handedly kept this game respectable.  Without Greene it would have been a layup line for Pitt.  There is very skill offensively on this team.  The last person that should be knocked is Phil Greene.


Well lets see.
Greene is successful with 35% of his shots
If a QB completed 35% of his passes he would be 15% worse than Mark Sanchez
If a coach won 35% of his games he would be Norm Roberts
If a kid got 35% on a test he would fail
If a batter was successful 35% of the time eventually he will fail a PED test and be suspended
If you satisfy your girl 35% of the time, you will eventually be single.
35% is not good. And that is w/o mentioning the circle dribbling.
He played better the game he went 0-7.

Fair to assume you are single WASJU? Say it ain't so! Lol

I really don't get the constant knocking of Phil Greene in this site.  Without Greene we would have been ran out of the first half.  This team is awful offensively.  Dom and Sampson are completely out of control on the perimeter and are good for a dozen combined terrible decisions a game.  Harrison can't separate from a defender athletically and when they are just as strong as him, he's screwed.  We have no big on the roster that is a threat down low. 

Obviously we would all like to have Eric Barkley, but we don't.  Greene single-handedly kept this game respectable.  Without Greene it would have been a layup line for Pitt.  There is very skill offensively on this team.  The last person that should be knocked is Phil Greene.


Well lets see.
Greene is successful with 35% of his shots
If a QB completed 35% of his passes he would be 15% worse than Mark Sanchez
If a coach won 35% of his games he would be Norm Roberts
If a kid got 35% on a test he would fail
If a batter was successful 35% of the time eventually he will fail a PED test and be suspended
If you satisfy your girl 35% of the time, you will eventually be single.
35% is not good. And that is w/o mentioning the circle dribbling.
He played better the game he went 0-7.

  Larry Wright shot 37% and he was one of the greats?