Pitt game discussion

We might play Pitt next year.  They are participating in the legends classic as well.

Forgot about that.  We go to Brooklyn as the local team and the others will have more fans.  Can't wait!

We dont run this offense. You can keep saying it, but we dont.

What he said!

We dont run this offense. You can keep saying it, but we dont.

What he said!

Marcus misspoke. He meant to say that we run the Gladys Knight offense, not the Bobby Knight offense. Phil stands in one place and pirouettes like one of the Pips and the rest of the team uses their imagination.

Our offense, in recent games, seems to involve more passing, and less dribbling, in the motion.  That is an improvement, in my opinion.  The ball moves more quickly.  Against USF, we were able to attack them inside the free throw line.  Pitt, with size and skill, took that away from us.  Therefore, we were forced to play on the perimeter.  several times we tried to dribble into the middle but had the ball stripped from the penetrator.  If shots were falling from the outside, we could have opened up the zone and scored some points inside.  Unfortunately, we couldn't hit any outside shots so the zone remained packed.

8-7 in the BE. 16-11 overall. We just get lucky all the time, no other way to explain our success. we have a horrible PG, no shooters, and no interior offense, but somehow we have 8 BE wins, right? Lavin sucks, the offense never looked good even in his first year when we knocked off 6 top 15 teams including the national champs. The only reason we won those games is because of All the NBA superstars we had back then.

But seriously, the same posters who are posting this sh*t now are the same ones who said we would not surpass last years win total earlier in the year. We lost to a top 20 team by double digits. Get over it. It doesn't mean we suck. We played them tough for a lot of the game. We are a middle of the pack BE team this year, anyone who expected better was ahead of themselves. Next year we'll be even better. I can't wait for the posts next year when we win 20+ about how we still run no offense, as if its possible to win 20 games without running an offense let alone 16. I'll give you the offense doesn't look pretty right now and looks unorganized, it will get better. But it's also not as bad as many make it out to be on here.

These teams are getting really good scouting reports on D'Lo. They're reading what he's going to do every time he gets the ball.

Dangelo is broken
I saw despair in his eyes yesterday at the garden
I watched his body language Gzus!!!
Somethin heavy goin on
I mean like Mark Sanchez like broken
Bad shot selection, waiting on his usually quick release
Missed FTs Airballs Turnovers
Are golden boy is copper approaching the finishline
Btw garden had a decent crowd

8-7 in the BE. 16-11 overall. We just get lucky all the time, no other way to explain our success. we have a horrible PG, no shooters, and no interior offense, but somehow we have 8 BE wins, right? Lavin sucks, the offense never looked good even in his first year when we knocked off 6 top 15 teams including the national champs. The only reason we won those games is because of All the NBA superstars we had back then.

But seriously, the same posters who are posting this sh*t now are the same ones who said we would not surpass last years win total earlier in the year. We lost to a top 20 team by double digits. Get over it. It doesn't mean we suck. We played them tough for a lot of the game. We are a middle of the pack BE team this year, anyone who expected better was ahead of themselves. Next year we'll be even better. I can't wait for the posts next year when we win 20+ about how we still run no offense, as if its possible to win 20 games without running an offense let alone 16. I'll give you the offense doesn't look pretty right now and looks unorganized, it will get better. But it's also not as bad as many make it out to be on here


Actually Fun did a good job explaining it on BEB. SJU does a good job of making the game ugly. Basically this as Norm's strategy as well. Lavin has far superior athletes because he is a far superior recruiter which accounts for the 4- 5 or so more victories.

8-7 in the BE. 16-11 overall. We just get lucky all the time, no other way to explain our success. we have a horrible PG, no shooters, and no interior offense, but somehow we have 8 BE wins, right? Lavin sucks, the offense never looked good even in his first year when we knocked off 6 top 15 teams including the national champs. The only reason we won those games is because of All the NBA superstars we had back then.

But seriously, the same posters who are posting this sh*t now are the same ones who said we would not surpass last years win total earlier in the year. We lost to a top 20 team by double digits. Get over it. It doesn't mean we suck. We played them tough for a lot of the game. We are a middle of the pack BE team this year, anyone who expected better was ahead of themselves. Next year we'll be even better. I can't wait for the posts next year when we win 20+ about how we still run no offense, as if its possible to win 20 games without running an offense let alone 16. I'll give you the offense doesn't look pretty right now and looks unorganized, it will get better. But it's also not as bad as many make it out to be on here


Actually Fun did a good job explaining it on BEB. SJU does a good job of making the game ugly. Basically this as Norm's strategy as well. Lavin has far superior athletes because he is a far superior recruiter which accounts for the 4- 5 or so more victories.

I just don't buy that. "Make the game ugly." Just seems lazy and lame to say a team has a winning record in the BE because they are really good at making the game ugly. I thought having just athletes doesnt win games? Norm made the games ugly, and that's why we never won while he was here.

Norm won 14-16 games generally. Lavin is a far superior recruiter with much better players. This team will wind up with 18 or so wins. I predicted 17 before the season, so I am not unhappy the way the season has gone. The offense is ugly, which makes us a tough watch sometimes.

Norm won 14-16 games generally. Lavin is a far superior recruiter with much better players. This team will wind up with 18 or so wins. I predicted 17 before the season, so I am not unhappy the way the season has gone. The offense is ugly, which makes us a tough watch sometimes.

Wasn't Norms best season 6 BE wins? We got that last year. Lavin also doubled that win total with norms own players.

My point is we do other things well instead of just playing ugly, as much as it kills some of us to admit it.

As far as minutes and roles, I disagree with how much freedom Greene has and I think Marco has been under used. But those are my opinions. Lavin clearly saw the positives in Hardy and Brownlee. Some of us might have thought they were better than how Norm was using them but I don't think to the degree it turned out. No matter who you are as a coach you are going to have hit an misses with players. Lavin is a very good recruiter.
My problem is win, lose or draw our offense is not effectve and down right ugly. If the problem is the players are not running it, then he either has to recruit to his sytem and not just grab the most talented kids he can get or run an offense that suits the players he has.

Quote from: 0404 on February 24, 2013, 01:35:53 PM

These teams are getting really good scouting reports on D'Lo. They're reading what he's going to do every time he gets the ball.

Dangelo is broken
I saw despair in his eyes yesterday at the garden
I watched his body language Gzus!!!
Somethin heavy goin on
I mean like Mark Sanchez like broken
Bad shot selection, waiting on his usually quick release
Missed FTs Airballs Turnovers
Are golden boy is copper approaching the finishline
Btw garden had a decent crowd

Pitt did the same thing to him last year.  He isn't athletic and when guys can match him physical...it's over.  He is incredibly skilled, but he's slower than any non-big on the court every game.  That is why he has no chance at the NBA. 

Lavin has explained what our "offensive gameplan" is on numerous occasions. He wants this team to push the ball after we grab a defensive rebound or make a steal and look to score within the first 7-10 seconds of the shot clock. If we don't get a quality shot up on the break or before the defense sets up, the team is instructed to break out the weave and run some clock. The purpose being to limit the opposing team's possessions and points in transition off a bad rushed shots. As some have mentioned, it would be better if the team made hard cuts and crisper passes. It would also be better if we had a player like Dwight Hardy to give the ball with 10 on the shot clock and ask him to make something happen. I thought Harrison could be that player, but after yesterday's performance I just don't have much faith in him YET in the big game against a quality opponent. I am in no way agreeing with this style of offense, but this is what Lavin runs. I know its not the Princeton offense or even the dribble drive, but this is who we are and have been the last 3 years. There is no sense in complaining about it anymore. The only hope is that if Lav continues to bring in better and better talent it will mask the deficiencies in the X's and O's of his coaching style. Clearly it CAN work as evidenced by the Hardy/Brownlee/DJ team. And we have more talent on our roster now, so hopefully continued patience will pay off.

Lavin has explained what our "offensive gameplan" is on numerous occasions. He wants this team to push the ball after we grab a defensive rebound or make a steal and look to score within the first 7-10 seconds of the shot clock. If we don't get a quality shot up on the break or before the defense sets up, the team is instructed to break out the weave and run some clock. The purpose being to limit the opposing team's possessions and points in transition off a bad rushed shots. As some have mentioned, it would be better if the team made hard cuts and crisper passes. It would also be better if we had a player like Dwight Hardy to give the ball with 10 on the shot clock and ask him to make something happen. I thought Harrison could be that player, but after yesterday's performance I just don't have much faith in him YET in the big game against a quality opponent. I am in no way agreeing with this style of offense, but this is what Lavin runs. I know its not the Princeton offense or even the dribble drive, but this is who we are and have been the last 3 years. There is no sense in complaining about it anymore. The only hope is that if Lav continues to bring in better and better talent it will mask the deficiencies in the X's and O's of his coaching style. Clearly it CAN work as evidenced by the Hardy/Brownlee/DJ team. And we have more talent on our roster now, so hopefully continued patience will pay off.

Re your point about hardy/end of possession. It really is amazing that with all the times we find ourselves with the shot-clock running down, I really cant think of even one time where we got a good luck. That is amazing.

Quote from: JungleFever on February 25, 2013, 07:05:00 PM

Lavin has explained what our "offensive gameplan" is on numerous occasions. He wants this team to push the ball after we grab a defensive rebound or make a steal and look to score within the first 7-10 seconds of the shot clock. If we don't get a quality shot up on the break or before the defense sets up, the team is instructed to break out the weave and run some clock. The purpose being to limit the opposing team's possessions and points in transition off a bad rushed shots. As some have mentioned, it would be better if the team made hard cuts and crisper passes. It would also be better if we had a player like Dwight Hardy to give the ball with 10 on the shot clock and ask him to make something happen. I thought Harrison could be that player, but after yesterday's performance I just don't have much faith in him YET in the big game against a quality opponent. I am in no way agreeing with this style of offense, but this is what Lavin runs. I know its not the Princeton offense or even the dribble drive, but this is who we are and have been the last 3 years. There is no sense in complaining about it anymore. The only hope is that if Lav continues to bring in better and better talent it will mask the deficiencies in the X's and O's of his coaching style. Clearly it CAN work as evidenced by the Hardy/Brownlee/DJ team. And we have more talent on our roster now, so hopefully continued patience will pay off.

Re your point about hardy/end of possession. It really is amazing that with all the times we find ourselves with the shot-clock running down, I really cant think of even one time where we got a good luck. That is amazing.

Makes you wonder if maybe the stars were just aligned that year and this "offense" really is not going to breed sustained success....

That being said, I think back to the Duke game and we had a lot of success running the "weave" because of backdoor cuts and solid passing. Brownlee's dunk sticks out specifically. I don't see that with this group at all. There is no attempt to make a pass towards the rim, solely east to west passing

We dont run this offense. You can keep saying it, but we dont.

What he said!

I'm not saying it.  Lavin has said it.  We run a variation of Newell/Knights motion offense.  Whether you believe it or not.  I didn't say we run it well. 

Who variation Roberts?

Quote from: we are sju on February 25, 2013, 11:37:57 AM

We dont run this offense. You can keep saying it, but we dont.

What he said!

I'm not saying it.  Lavin has said it.  We run a variation of Newell/Knights motion offense.  Whether you believe it or not.  I didn't say we run it well.

Funny, a couple of weeks ago when Bob Knight was color commentating on one of the SJU games he went on an extended soliloqy about how SJU offense was using the dribble entirely too much and how he would run practices where they werent allowed to dribble...apparently we run such a variation of it that he didnt recognize his own offense. You posted a link to that offense..did you even look at the diagrams? Does it remotely resemble anything you've seen SJU do this year?

But perhaps you can provide us with a link to Lavin saying they run that offense. Or maybe a link to where you read it was hard to master. (Got a chuckle out of that one)I looked and i couldnt find anything, but i did find this fascinating Lavin/Pete Newell bit:

Though Lavin played up his relationships with Wooden and the Hall of Fame coach Pete Newell, an old family friend, he surrounded himself with friends and neophytes. Three of the five assistants who worked for him at U.C.L.A. were his former high school or college teammates. The others had little coaching experience.

“You have to really take an honest look at yourself in what your strengths and weaknesses are,” Newell told The Los Angeles Daily News on the eve of Lavin’s firing in 2003. “Some of us are motivators and not X’s and O’s guys. Some are teachers, but not really strong in game planning and assessing players.” Others were strong in recruiting, Newell said.

“As coaches, we’ve got to get assistants to reinforce us where we’re weak,” he added. “Steve has shown great leadership by bringing his teams back from the ashes — that’s a real strength.”

What Lavin needed, Newell said, was “an older guy who could shape him into a better X-and-O guy, or if he’s not good on defense, a good defense guy. In these areas, there was just no growth.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/31/sports/ncaabasketball/31storm.html?_r=0

I repeat: you can say it as much as you want. We. Do. Not. Run. That. Offense. Or any other that I can see.

Some of you guy's have to ease up after a crappy game and get away from the message boards for a day or two.  After reading through a couple of pages back I thought I was on the Seton Hall board.

This is a young team that was schooled by a four year BE player and his very talented and deep team.  They were a bad match up for St John's - as was pointed out to me by an astute and reasonable fan in section 114 before the game.

This young team has an RPI of 62 going into the final stretch. We lived through years of triple digit RPI's. 

And what the hell happened to Linda?  She must be busy on the Pirate boards.

SCORING DEFENSE G Pts Avg/G
1. Pittsburgh 28 1538 54.9
2. Georgetown 25 1392 55.7
3. Louisville 27 1579 58.5
4. Cincinnati 28 1657 59.2
5. Syracuse 27 1598 59.2
6. Marquette 26 1616 62.2
7. USF 26 1633 62.8
8. Notre Dame 28 1766 63.1
9. Providence 27 1744 64.6
10. Villanova 28 1813 64.8
11. Connecticut 26 1698 65.3
12. Seton Hall 28 1836 65.6
13. St. John's 27 1791 66.3
14. Rutgers 26 1751 67.3
15. DePaul 27 2012 74.5

Pitt's the best defensive team in the league, this current version is probably the best defense they've had in quite some time and they beat us like a rented mule.  No surprise that our offense was ineffective against this big, bad, aggressive, well oiled and coached defensive unit.  Their senior had a home coming to remember and it was lights out.

Mean Joe with his 5 for 13 had a better shooting day than Sir Dom, Marco Mitterand, 3'lo, the Aggie and CO and we only played 8 deep.  Yet, he's the goat?

Reports of the watered down $10 beer were inaccurate.  Found out for myself that they serve an entirely serviceable $10 import or microbrew.  Basketball is clearly better with some hops and barley malt. I've decided that the drinking age should be brought back down to 18 and they should serve beer at Alumni where I see the vast majority of my games.