Harrison suspended rest of the year

Quote from: Dan on March 02, 2013, 12:19:51 PM

I think his seat getting warm would be justified if they don't make the tournament next year.  That would be three straight years without a berth, if you're counting on not making it this year, which seems likely, especially with Harrison getting himself suspended.

Remember, it was the same clueless nice persons who said that anyone who bashed Norm wasn't "in the know" and then changed their tune, while I was on Norm from the moment I realized he couldn't coach or recruit.  Lavin deserves some more slack due to his past results and getting at least one team to a NCAA tournament, unlike Roberts, but it's ridiculous to label him as infallible like the above posters are pretty much doing.  "Anyone that thinks that Lavin deserves to be on the hot seat if he fails to take the team to a NCAA tournament bid, not a sweet 16 run, not a final four, just a freaking berth, for a third straight season (notice what I posted above) is not in the know.  Just trust us.  We championed Norm through 2 seasons where he should have already gotten ousted."

Chances are they make the tournament next year, but if they don't, you have to start asking questions.  I'm not asking for a final four, just asking to get in.  So drop it if you think anyone asking for that is an entitled Wildcats fan.

3 straight years? Check that

It's hypothetical

Last year
This year (more than likely)
Next year

Granted I think they'll make it next year which is great but if the excuses continue to come down...cmon now.  To be clear, if they don't make it this year I wouldn't want Lavin on the hot seat. 

Assuming we have or add a scoring guard (Jordan/Harrison/Other) I believe it is fair to expect a team that can win a game or two in NCAA Tourney next year. That said, the following year will be a challenge. Lose Sanchez and Sampson and we are back to square one, unless Lavin pulls another rabbit out of the hat. My major concern is when do we get to the point when we are not so vulnerable to the loss of one or two players? Just my opinion.

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on March 02, 2013, 11:58:09 AM

You guys sound like impotent UCLA fans.   

First the guy is an idiot now he is smart enough to launch a plan to suspend his best player to deflect criticism. There are probably some actual idiots that believe that.

You guys act like we are Kentucky.  Did you guys expect a sweet sixteen run in the second year of refilling an empty roster on a program that became a laughing stock nationally. 

Of course Lavin should take some heat but the hyperbole gets out of hand.  Hot seat?  As Choz would say...smh

+1. You can easily tell the basketball fans from the knowledgeable basketball fans. Once you understand some people don't have a clue, their posts are easier to digest.

Assume you really meant  easier to "ignore" 

Assuming we have or add a scoring guard (Jordan/Harrison/Other) I believe it is fair to expect a team that can win a game or two in NCAA Tourney next year. That said, the following year will be a challenge. Lose Sanchez and Sampson and we are back to square one, unless Lavin pulls another rabbit out of the hat. My major concern is when do we get to the point when we are not so vulnerable to the loss of one or two players? Just my opinion.

That's the key to your earlier question re: sustained success..Unfortunately that is a journey and will take time and require patience on our part...unless you're Kentucky

Assuming we have or add a scoring guard (Jordan/Harrison/Other) I believe it is fair to expect a team that can win a game or two in NCAA Tourney next year. That said, the following year will be a challenge. Lose Sanchez and Sampson and we are back to square one, unless Lavin pulls another rabbit out of the hat. My major concern is when do we get to the point when we are not so vulnerable to the loss of one or two players? Just my opinion.

Essentially you're asking when do we get to the point where Lavin builds the team into a power....because only powerhouse teams reload, rather than rebuild.  Next year is as good of a year as any to hopefully make a nice run and get some recruits looking our way.  It's a huge year.

What cocerns me is if DLO doesnt return and we dont get Jorden,who according to Dave is unlikely,who fills DLO shoes next year as a 2 guard? Greene has not demonstated he could get the job done.

What cocerns me is if DLO doesnt return and we dont get Jorden,who according to Dave is unlikely,who fills DLO shoes next year as a 2 guard? Greene has not demonstated he could get the job done.

Fair point. IMO, the absence of a recruiting Plan B may hurt us.

What cocerns me is if DLO doesnt return and we dont get Jorden,who according to Dave is unlikely,who fills DLO shoes next year as a 2 guard? Greene has not demonstated he could get the job done.

Marco

You guys sound like impotent UCLA fans.   

In your last post in this thread you cautioned everyone to keep it above the belt. In this one you're on about erectile dysfunction. Do make up your mind. 

There are probably some actual idiots that believe that.

Is idiots chippy? Just wondering, for future reference.

Anyway: human beings have various mechanisms by which they make themselves feel good about the meaningless and futility of life. I think of these mechanisms as neuroses, although that's not how a professional would define it. 

Some are positive and some negative. Re the latter everyone knows someone in their life who deflects personal criticism by creating chaos and confusion. They blow up things around them because the heat and noise distracts attention from their own failings and insecurities. Other people create negative energy when positive things happen because deep down they don't believe they deserve to be happy. Lots of people do lots of things lots of the time that are self-destructive and maladaptive. Some of them do it on purpose and some of them do it quite unconsciously. The less intelligent they are the less likely they are to be self-aware.

You might think that Lavin is above being neurotic. I don't. You might think that Lavin spends all his time looking out for the other guy. I don't. I don't believe in altrusim and I certainly don't believe that Lavin rose to the professional heights he's attained without paying full attention to his own self interest. You are free to think otherwise, just as I'm free to think that your perspective belies a complete and utter misunderstanding of human nature.

Here's a thought experiment. Start with this proposition: Man is the most vile and pernicious species of vermin that god has suffered to crawl across the face of the earth. Starting from there analyze the events of the last couple three days and see how you can get to here: Harrison is stigmatized as a psychopath and Lavin is heroic for standing up to him.

Or don't, I don't care. But it's much more likely to me that Lavin is punishing Harrison for failing to live up to Lavin's unreasonable expectations than it is that a season ending supension is justified for being "tardy" or turning his back on a huddle. Maybe Harrison behaved heinously. I don't know. But I don't recall off the top of my head any past SJ player being sanctioned in this manner. Jayson Williams suffered less for assaulting a fan with a chair. Grady Reynolds suffered less for woman beating. Willie Shaw? James Felton? Maybe. The timing of it all is very peculiar. It sets my spidey sense a-tingling. But then I rountinely think the worst of humanity. The consolation is that I am rarely disappointed.

I showed up to every practice hungover and since I wasn't playing most games in college. My point was from everything we have seen, nothing Harrison has done warrants this action as well. Eye rolling is worse than being hungover? Like I have said, behind the scenes maybe he has a personality llike MaineQB and this is warranted. On the surface, where we all reside, this seems extreme.

From what you've seen which is relatively nothing.  That seems to be the problem with most of the guys questioning the decision.  They think they know something.  They don't.

Side note I hope D'Angelo's girl continues to come to games. Whoa....

A lot of Brent Musburger in Dave! 

Quote from: Dan on March 02, 2013, 12:19:51 PM

I think his seat getting warm would be justified if they don't make the tournament next year.  That would be three straight years without a berth, if you're counting on not making it this year, which seems likely, especially with Harrison getting himself suspended.

Remember, it was the same clueless nice persons who said that anyone who bashed Norm wasn't "in the know" and then changed their tune, while I was on Norm from the moment I realized he couldn't coach or recruit.  Lavin deserves some more slack due to his past results and getting at least one team to a NCAA tournament, unlike Roberts, but it's ridiculous to label him as infallible like the above posters are pretty much doing.  "Anyone that thinks that Lavin deserves to be on the hot seat if he fails to take the team to a NCAA tournament bid, not a sweet 16 run, not a final four, just a freaking berth, for a third straight season (notice what I posted above) is not in the know.  Just trust us.  We championed Norm through 2 seasons where he should have already gotten ousted."

Chances are they make the tournament next year, but if they don't, you have to start asking questions.  I'm not asking for a final four, just asking to get in.  So drop it if you think anyone asking for that is an entitled Wildcats fan.

3 straight years? Check that

He was referring to if we missed the tourney next year.  His guys would all be juniors.  I think it is such a freaking joke for anyone to think Lavin's seat is hot or even warm.  We have a very talented roster, but teams rarely win with this kind of youth. 

If Harrison comes back better than ever and everybody is healthy, this team will be very good next year.  We would have been a tournament team with Sanchez this year.  We really got lucky that we get him--with a extra year with this program--next year when this team can really do some damage.  There will be no learning curve for him. 

Next year could be special.  Being able to pull juniors and seniors off the bench that were top 75 recruits is a great thing.  We'll have that for a long time with Lavin.  Syracuse has been doing that for years. 

I don't think Curtis Redding finished a season here. 

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on March 02, 2013, 12:24:09 PM

Quote from: Dan on March 02, 2013, 12:19:51 PM

I think his seat getting warm would be justified if they don't make the tournament next year.  That would be three straight years without a berth, if you're counting on not making it this year, which seems likely, especially with Harrison getting himself suspended.

Remember, it was the same clueless nice persons who said that anyone who bashed Norm wasn't "in the know" and then changed their tune, while I was on Norm from the moment I realized he couldn't coach or recruit.  Lavin deserves some more slack due to his past results and getting at least one team to a NCAA tournament, unlike Roberts, but it's ridiculous to label him as infallible like the above posters are pretty much doing.  "Anyone that thinks that Lavin deserves to be on the hot seat if he fails to take the team to a NCAA tournament bid, not a sweet 16 run, not a final four, just a freaking berth, for a third straight season (notice what I posted above) is not in the know.  Just trust us.  We championed Norm through 2 seasons where he should have already gotten ousted."

Chances are they make the tournament next year, but if they don't, you have to start asking questions.  I'm not asking for a final four, just asking to get in.  So drop it if you think anyone asking for that is an entitled Wildcats fan.

3 straight years? Check that

It's hypothetical

Last year
This year (more than likely)
Next year

Granted I think they'll make it next year which is great but if the excuses continue to come down...cmon now.  To be clear, if they don't make it this year I wouldn't want Lavin on the hot seat. 

Sorry Dan I misread your post. Think your hypothetical is looking past a lot of things though.

If Lenny Hoops is to be believed than 2 of his assertions give me pause regarding the whole Dlo situation. First, that Lavin acknowledged that he did not have a sit down with Dlo and give him a shape up or ship out ultimatum before suspending him. Second, that Harrison's antics did not sit well with high ranking members of the St. J's administration (ie. read FH? FH that paragon of virtue).

If u r right we are a joke.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on March 02, 2013, 12:24:09 PM

Quote from: Dan on March 02, 2013, 12:19:51 PM

I think his seat getting warm would be justified if they don't make the tournament next year.  That would be three straight years without a berth, if you're counting on not making it this year, which seems likely, especially with Harrison getting himself suspended.

Remember, it was the same clueless nice persons who said that anyone who bashed Norm wasn't "in the know" and then changed their tune, while I was on Norm from the moment I realized he couldn't coach or recruit.  Lavin deserves some more slack due to his past results and getting at least one team to a NCAA tournament, unlike Roberts, but it's ridiculous to label him as infallible like the above posters are pretty much doing.  "Anyone that thinks that Lavin deserves to be on the hot seat if he fails to take the team to a NCAA tournament bid, not a sweet 16 run, not a final four, just a freaking berth, for a third straight season (notice what I posted above) is not in the know.  Just trust us.  We championed Norm through 2 seasons where he should have already gotten ousted."

Chances are they make the tournament next year, but if they don't, you have to start asking questions.  I'm not asking for a final four, just asking to get in.  So drop it if you think anyone asking for that is an entitled Wildcats fan.

3 straight years? Check that

He was referring to if we missed the tourney next year.  His guys would all be juniors.  I think it is such a freaking joke for anyone to think Lavin's seat is hot or even warm.  We have a very talented roster, but teams rarely win with this kind of youth. 

If Harrison comes back better than ever and everybody is healthy, this team will be very good next year.  We would have been a tournament team with Sanchez this year.  We really got lucky that we get him--with a extra year with this program--next year when this team can really do some damage.  There will be no learning curve for him. 

Next year could be special.  Being able to pull juniors and seniors off the bench that were top 75 recruits is a great thing.  We'll have that for a long time with Lavin.  Syracuse has been doing that for years. 

In retrospect I think we kinda got lucky with Sampson reclassifying as well. If he came in the same year as moe than I think there would be a better chance that he would be gone after this year. If Sampson stays, which for his sake as well as ours I hope he does, then lavin will finally have the front court he's been craving for. Two 6'8-9 forwards who can score and playmake as well as rebound the basketball. I know you've alluded to that as well marillac.

Quote from: jr49 on March 02, 2013, 10:54:00 AM

Quote from: Foad on March 02, 2013, 09:53:37 AM

Quote from: paultzman on March 02, 2013, 08:19:30 AM

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/lavin_prepared_to_take_the_heat_bXQc2pfcN32oejen0NH8AN

Reference to Fr. Harrington stressing to SL when he came the importance of doing the right thing v. winning. Guess FH did not practice what he preached.

I thought Robbins started strong

"With three games left in the regular season and his St. John’s team perched on the NCAA Tournament bubble, Lavin suspended his leading scorer, D’Angelo Harrison, for the rest of the season .... Right or wrong, a successful basketball season for programs such as St. John’s is defined these days on whether or it makes the Tournament and how far it advances. Lavin knows that better than anyone.

But I think my ending is better:

... Which is why Lavin is worried. Other than a 20 win season with 10 players who went on to play professional basketball that he he inherited from Norm Roberts, Lavin hasn't made the NCAA tournament since 2001, a drought of 12 years. His record since then is a mediocre 60 wins and 64 losses; without Norm Roberts players it's a horrific 39 wins and 52 losses. Lavin knows he has to produce, and soon, lest even his most ardent lickspittles notice that the emperor isn't wearing and clothes and has flabby man boobs and and a hairy back.

However, with Harrison's suspension at least some of the heat is off. Now when Saint John's loses its next three games and backs into the NIT tournament the talk will be of D'Angelo Harrison's mental stability, rather than Lavin's underachievement. Instead of blaming Lavin for the team's failure Lavin will be clapped on the back for his bravery and integrity. Yea! Steve everyone will say, a sentiment echoed by Steve Lavin:

"Father Harrington made it clear there are things that are more important than winning." Lavin said.

Well, there'd better be, because Lavin hasn't won anything in 15 years.

Entering the season many of the the Saint John's faithful predicted a 20 or 25 win season and an NCAA tournament berth. Instead they got another year of really, really bad basketball. Maybe they'd have won a couple more if Lavin hadn't redshirted his only experienced big man, or had been able to get his other big man qualified, or if he'd been able to get his other other big man qualified. Or if he's instituted even a vague offensive plan or relied on something other than his silly junk defense. We'll never know. What we do know is that D'Angelo Harrison is a thug with tattoos and mental issues and poor Steve Lavin has his best interests at heart, and  if Harrison’s public humiliation results in kudos for Steve Lavin in the NY press, well, Steve Lavin is a big enough man to accept those. Because of the things that are more important than winning few are as satisfying as a tongue bath from Lenn Robbins on the back page of the NY Post

Outside of vulgarity your post brings nothing to the table. You must have talent along with being liked and respected by those who run this board. How about bringing some knowledgeable hoops talk to the board to balance out your post on situation that deserves better. Thanks.

For once Foad tells it like it is and you're looking for knowledgeable hoops talk in a situation where none is possible.  GG was red shirted.  Sanchez became an embarassment.  Greene proved once again he can't do what we knew he couldn't.  Our best player gets suspended for some amorphous reason and with all the overpaid staff members not one youngster has been enticed to join the madness and you call for knowledgeable hoops talk.  Where the Hell would it come from amidst the maelstrom of yet another meltdown?  At least Foad is pointing out all the unanswerable nonsense that constantly plagues our program.  As far as I'm concerned all bets are off involving SJU.  The final record will tell the only relevant story and I'm not very optimistic about that at this point.

And you 45 figure the image the writer paints of a shirtless Steve is in good taste? You like the message? I never figured a St.Johns hoops board to get this kind of nasty.

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on March 02, 2013, 11:58:09 AM

You guys sound like impotent UCLA fans.   

In your last post in this thread you cautioned everyone to keep it above the belt. In this one you're on about erectile dysfunction. Do make up your mind. 

Quote

There are probably some actual idiots that believe that.

Is idiots chippy? Just wondering, for future reference.

Interesting you chose to interpret impotent as an ED reference.

I don't think you believe what you're writing so I did not call you an idiot.

Quote"carmineabbatiello
The 6th Man
 
  Re: Harrison suspended rest of the year
« Reply #155 on: Today at 01:12:01 PM
»Quote We deserve better

Actually you make out ok on this Greene can spin his heart out now with virtually no repercussions.

He had that already.