Really Really down on Lavin

Quote from: SJUhoopNUT on March 05, 2013, 09:40:15 PM

In all aspects of the program right now, Lavin is not performing well. From a discipline standpoint and a coaching standpoint, this team has a lot of issues. Bad enough our play on the court was embarassing, but throw in a fight, and it's just total chaos.

I didn't expect NCAA bid this year, figured an NIT bid would be ok as long as the team showed improvement and finished strong. The finish to this season has been a disaster. Lavin's recruiting flaws are showing and his coaching flaws are also glaring. Can he recruit? Yes. But it's inexcusable to not have more perimeter scoring. His in game adjustments? As Digger said tonight, non-existent. You can blame young, you can blame whatever you want, but the team on the floor tonight was a reflection of the coach. And the incident is a reflection of the type of program that is developing.

Lavin has to get it together. The cracks are beginning to show.

What I don't understand us why much of what you say was not evident some time ago. Some of us predicted some time ago that this team would only win 8 or at best 9 games in the BE and that was when we had 6 wins against a most favorable schedule. All year long all we heard from dillusional fans was the term "young team" which by the amount of minutes played was BOGUS.

It is obvious that Lavin lacks a qualified 2 nd assisstant, and most recently a bonified recruiter.  Ths year Lavin has whiffed on every recruit he went after.  Tonite, everyone is upset about the ND blow out, why? With the recent distractions, continued abismal play, poor shooting, an ineffective offense what did you expect, a win? 

I feel sorry for coach. He as had a couple of tough years. Battled cancer, lost his dad and had a player on the team that could give you ulcers.  I think that the current state of affairs can be fixed but it's going to take work on the part of the coaching staff and the players themselves. Lavin needs to reconfigure his staff and import an x and o guy and the kids have got to work hard on their shooting over the summer. My only concern is the recent recruiting failures.  Dont know what to do to help that.

Anyway, I am not ready to throw oath under the bus.  Sure things look bad at this time but things can change, it's just gonna take a lot of ard work.

Linda, do you think we would have won if Lavin played Marco the entire second half?

He never replaced Dunlap. I think you can start and end there.

Quote from: SJUhoopNUT on March 05, 2013, 09:40:15 PM

In all aspects of the program right now, Lavin is not performing well. From a discipline standpoint and a coaching standpoint, this team has a lot of issues. Bad enough our play on the court was embarassing, but throw in a fight, and it's just total chaos.

I didn't expect NCAA bid this year, figured an NIT bid would be ok as long as the team showed improvement and finished strong. The finish to this season has been a disaster. Lavin's recruiting flaws are showing and his coaching flaws are also glaring. Can he recruit? Yes. But it's inexcusable to not have more perimeter scoring. His in game adjustments? As Digger said tonight, non-existent. You can blame young, you can blame whatever you want, but the team on the floor tonight was a reflection of the coach. And the incident is a reflection of the type of program that is developing.

Lavin has to get it together. The cracks are beginning to show.

Horsesh*t post. 
This team will be fantastic next year.  Harrison's was suspended to ensure that happens.  Sanchez is everything we needed up front and Obekpa and Sampson will come back as men.  Give Lavin one freaking year of having his own juniors...you guys are freaking crazy.

Agree things are looking up for next year and you didn't even mention the incredible Amir Garrett who will be even more incredible next year! 

We haven't achieved our potential this year and the season is taking a turn for the worse. I'm about accountability and I think Lavin/staff deserve some heat for that. Having said that, I still love what he has done with this program and believe next year can be a very good one. I have no problem building a really athletic team and infact would rather be built this way then of a team full of shooters but is stiff. How ever its obvious that we need more balance to be successful. I'm hoping to finish the season on a good note, have a great off season and go into next year with a chip on our shoulder

We haven't achieved our potential this year and the season is taking a turn for the worse. I'm about accountability and I think Lavin/staff deserve some heat for that. Having said that, I still love what he has done with this program and believe next year can be a very good one. I have no problem building a really athletic team and infact would rather be built this way then of a team full of shooters but is stiff. How ever its obvious that we need more balance to be successful. I'm hoping to finish the season on a good note, have a great off season and go into next year with a chip on our shoulder

I agree, this season has been a slight disappointment overall for me. I mean I predicted 20 wins WITH Sanchez, so 16 isn't that far off from my expectation. But the amount of posts about Lavin being a clueless guy and the amount of shots he takes on this board is ridiculous. Let's see what Lavin does with a group of upperclassmen before we decide just how bad a coach he is.

We already saw good results with an experienced group in 2010.

We'll now see how he does with this group,  I would bet in the future book that they win 22 plus.

He is being paid NCAA bucks.  And only a fool would feel sorry for him,

They need to be a solid NCAA team next year and beyond.

Maybe Lavin's "offense" is so complex that only seniors are capable of running it....

Quote from: Poison on March 05, 2013, 09:51:46 PM

Quote from: boo3 on March 05, 2013, 09:47:39 PM

Should probably just fire him and start over..

 Who should be the next coach?

 Should I start a separate thread?

 How about Bob McKillop?   Seth Greenberg?  Doherty still interested?     

Who's the guy at Stony Brook? He's built something from absolutely nothing.

please make it stop. We always complained when Calgoon or Smiling jim got a player back from suspension for taking a stereo, or breaking in or assault after 1 game. Lavs made a decision based on D'Lo's future in basketball and in life i think. I don't like the end results as much as you guys but at least he is doing what he deems the right thing. Ill ride this out with coach, yeah tonight made me want to throw something through my TV but we all know we cant shoot. Once we get behind its a done deal for the most part.

The problem is we aren't bringing in any shooters next year either.  Outside of adding Orlando Sanchez, the team on the court last night will be the same team that is on the court next season.  And it can't be emphasized enough ... this team can't shoot.  An offseason is not going to change that.

Sure, they'll be a year older.  But the team is not balanced at all.

Quote from: valgoth on March 05, 2013, 09:56:37 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 05, 2013, 09:51:46 PM

Quote from: boo3 on March 05, 2013, 09:47:39 PM

Should probably just fire him and start over..

 Who should be the next coach?

 Should I start a separate thread?

 How about Bob McKillop?   Seth Greenberg?  Doherty still interested?     

Who's the guy at Stony Brook? He's built something from absolutely nothing.

please make it stop. We always complained when Calgoon or Smiling jim got a player back from suspension for taking a stereo, or breaking in or assault after 1 game. Lavs made a decision based on D'Lo's future in basketball and in life i think. I don't like the end results as much as you guys but at least he is doing what he deems the right thing. Ill ride this out with coach, yeah tonight made me want to throw something through my TV but we all know we cant shoot. Once we get behind its a done deal for the most part.

The problem is we aren't bringing in any shooters next year either.  Outside of adding Orlando Sanchez, the team on the court last night will be the same team that is on the court next season.  And it can't be emphasized enough ... this team can't shoot.  An offseason is not going to change that.

Sure, they'll be a year older.  But the team is not balanced at all.

Everyone forgets about Max Hooper.

Everyone forgets about Max Hooper.

As Dave mentioned..    you really want to count on the kid that couldn't crack the lineup at Harvard...

As Dave mentioned..    you really want to count on the kid that couldn't crack the lineup at Harvard...

Not counting on Max Hooper at all because slower less athletic players really have no place in our offensive offense, but I'd still like to know 'why' he didn't play at Harvard.  Had to be something else.

Everyone forgets about Max Hooper.

As Dave mentioned..    you really want to count on the kid that couldn't crack the lineup at Harvard...

I suppose not. Still, we have one ship provided Harrison doesn't return (which would be awful) and I don't see a lot left that's available. We might have to wait for some coaches to get fired in order to have a chance at top talent.

Who knows, maybe it's our coach that gets fired?

Quote from: pmg911 on March 06, 2013, 08:33:03 AM

As Dave mentioned..    you really want to count on the kid that couldn't crack the lineup at Harvard...

Not counting on Max Hooper at all because slower less athletic players really have no place in our offensive offense, but I'd still like to know 'why' he didn't play at Harvard.  Had to be something else.

After seeing how Lavin used, or did not use, Marco this season (especially when we really, really, really needed a shooter on the floor), I cannot fathom how anyone thinks Hooper will see any material minutes next year, especially when Marco will be a senior and fills the same role.

I have also always wondered what happened with Hooper at Harvard... I had totally discounted him up until recently but then heard from a very reliable source that he is a much better shooter than Marco.  But hitting shots in shootaround isn't the same as creating space for shots under pressure in games.

Quote from: DoodyNY33 on March 06, 2013, 08:22:32 AM

Quote from: valgoth on March 05, 2013, 09:56:37 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 05, 2013, 09:51:46 PM

Quote from: boo3 on March 05, 2013, 09:47:39 PM

Should probably just fire him and start over..

 Who should be the next coach?

 Should I start a separate thread?

 How about Bob McKillop?   Seth Greenberg?  Doherty still interested?     

Who's the guy at Stony Brook? He's built something from absolutely nothing.

please make it stop. We always complained when Calgoon or Smiling jim got a player back from suspension for taking a stereo, or breaking in or assault after 1 game. Lavs made a decision based on D'Lo's future in basketball and in life i think. I don't like the end results as much as you guys but at least he is doing what he deems the right thing. Ill ride this out with coach, yeah tonight made me want to throw something through my TV but we all know we cant shoot. Once we get behind its a done deal for the most part.

The problem is we aren't bringing in any shooters next year either.  Outside of adding Orlando Sanchez, the team on the court last night will be the same team that is on the court next season.  And it can't be emphasized enough ... this team can't shoot.  An offseason is not going to change that.

Sure, they'll be a year older.  But the team is not balanced at all.

Everyone forgets about Max Hooper.

That's because we've already seen how useless Bourgault is in our current offense.  Hooper is more than likely going to be the exact same story.  That's not a knock on his skill.  Maybe he's a great spot up shooter.  But if you don't have a coaching staff that can run plays for them and try to free them up on the court, it's not going to matter if you have Ray Allen or Reggie Miller out there.

Just another observation ... JaKarr really needs to be advised that he cannot consistently hit the 15 to 18 foot jump shot.  I think he has it in his mind that that's his shot and it really isn't.  Maybe it will develop over time, but he's not there yet with it.

Quote from: Poison on March 06, 2013, 08:25:27 AM

Quote from: DoodyNY33 on March 06, 2013, 08:22:32 AM

Quote from: valgoth on March 05, 2013, 09:56:37 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 05, 2013, 09:51:46 PM

Quote from: boo3 on March 05, 2013, 09:47:39 PM

Should probably just fire him and start over..

 Who should be the next coach?

 Should I start a separate thread?

 How about Bob McKillop?   Seth Greenberg?  Doherty still interested?     

Who's the guy at Stony Brook? He's built something from absolutely nothing.

please make it stop. We always complained when Calgoon or Smiling jim got a player back from suspension for taking a stereo, or breaking in or assault after 1 game. Lavs made a decision based on D'Lo's future in basketball and in life i think. I don't like the end results as much as you guys but at least he is doing what he deems the right thing. Ill ride this out with coach, yeah tonight made me want to throw something through my TV but we all know we cant shoot. Once we get behind its a done deal for the most part.

The problem is we aren't bringing in any shooters next year either.  Outside of adding Orlando Sanchez, the team on the court last night will be the same team that is on the court next season.  And it can't be emphasized enough ... this team can't shoot.  An offseason is not going to change that.

Sure, they'll be a year older.  But the team is not balanced at all.

Everyone forgets about Max Hooper.

Just another observation ... JaKarr really needs to be advised that he cannot consistently hit the 15 to 18 foot jump shot.  I think he has it in his mind that that's his shot and it really isn't.  Maybe it will develop over time, but he's not there yet with it.

Karr can't hit the 15 to 18 footer? 
Actually he can.  It's amazing that if he steps back from that he can't hit the side of a barn.
Karr hasn't been and issue the past 2 games.  With Dee out teams know he's our scoring option and are keying on him.  No issues with his jumper at all from there.

I have also always wondered what happened with Hooper at Harvard... I had totally discounted him up until recently but then heard from a very reliable source that he is a much better shooter than Marco.  But hitting shots in shootaround isn't the same as creating space for shots under pressure in games.

Slow of foot, bigger version of Marco who adds very little, if anything. Call me nuts, but I believe he was recruited to keep his buddy Sampson around two years.

Quote from: SJUhoopNUT on March 05, 2013, 09:40:15 PM

In all aspects of the program right now, Lavin is not performing well. From a discipline standpoint and a coaching standpoint, this team has a lot of issues. Bad enough our play on the court was embarassing, but throw in a fight, and it's just total chaos.

I didn't expect NCAA bid this year, figured an NIT bid would be ok as long as the team showed improvement and finished strong. The finish to this season has been a disaster. Lavin's recruiting flaws are showing and his coaching flaws are also glaring. Can he recruit? Yes. But it's inexcusable to not have more perimeter scoring. His in game adjustments? As Digger said tonight, non-existent. You can blame young, you can blame whatever you want, but the team on the floor tonight was a reflection of the coach. And the incident is a reflection of the type of program that is developing.

Lavin has to get it together. The cracks are beginning to show.

Horsesh*t post. 
This team will be fantastic next year.  Harrison's was suspended to ensure that happens.  Sanchez is everything we needed up front and Obekpa and Sampson will come back as men.  Give Lavin one freaking year of having his own juniors...you guys are freaking crazy.

Marillac on the money 100%. Some posters think everything should be like Yankees. Instant gratification. It takes time to build something from rock bottom (i.e., losing 11 seniors in one year).

The current Indiana Hoosiers team lost 20 games in each of the seniors first two years.

Some posters on here just don't get. Either clueless or have hidden agendas!!!

Quote from: Marillac on March 05, 2013, 10:28:15 PM

Quote from: SJUhoopNUT on March 05, 2013, 09:40:15 PM

In all aspects of the program right now, Lavin is not performing well. From a discipline standpoint and a coaching standpoint, this team has a lot of issues. Bad enough our play on the court was embarassing, but throw in a fight, and it's just total chaos.

I didn't expect NCAA bid this year, figured an NIT bid would be ok as long as the team showed improvement and finished strong. The finish to this season has been a disaster. Lavin's recruiting flaws are showing and his coaching flaws are also glaring. Can he recruit? Yes. But it's inexcusable to not have more perimeter scoring. His in game adjustments? As Digger said tonight, non-existent. You can blame young, you can blame whatever you want, but the team on the floor tonight was a reflection of the coach. And the incident is a reflection of the type of program that is developing.

Lavin has to get it together. The cracks are beginning to show.

Horsesh*t post. 
This team will be fantastic next year.  Harrison's was suspended to ensure that happens.  Sanchez is everything we needed up front and Obekpa and Sampson will come back as men.  Give Lavin one freaking year of having his own juniors...you guys are freaking crazy.

Marillac on the money 100%. Some posters think everything should be like Yankees. Instant gratification. It takes time to build something from rock bottom (i.e., losing 11 seniors in one year).

The current Indiana Hoosiers team lost 20 games in each of the seniors first two years.

Some posters on here just don't get. Either clueless or have hidden agendas!!!

Please lets not use the Indiana comparison again.

Quote from: Marillac on March 05, 2013, 10:28:15 PM

Quote from: SJUhoopNUT on March 05, 2013, 09:40:15 PM

In all aspects of the program right now, Lavin is not performing well. From a discipline standpoint and a coaching standpoint, this team has a lot of issues. Bad enough our play on the court was embarassing, but throw in a fight, and it's just total chaos.

I didn't expect NCAA bid this year, figured an NIT bid would be ok as long as the team showed improvement and finished strong. The finish to this season has been a disaster. Lavin's recruiting flaws are showing and his coaching flaws are also glaring. Can he recruit? Yes. But it's inexcusable to not have more perimeter scoring. His in game adjustments? As Digger said tonight, non-existent. You can blame young, you can blame whatever you want, but the team on the floor tonight was a reflection of the coach. And the incident is a reflection of the type of program that is developing.

Lavin has to get it together. The cracks are beginning to show.

Horsesh*t post. 
This team will be fantastic next year.  Harrison's was suspended to ensure that happens.  Sanchez is everything we needed up front and Obekpa and Sampson will come back as men.  Give Lavin one freaking year of having his own juniors...you guys are freaking crazy.

Marillac on the money 100%. Some posters think everything should be like Yankees. Instant gratification. It takes time to build something from rock bottom (i.e., losing 11 seniors in one year).

The current Indiana Hoosiers team lost 20 games in each of the seniors first two years.

Some posters on here just don't get. Either clueless or have hidden agendas!!!

I agree with your post but comparing the situation to Indiana isn't fair.  Crean got a pass for those years because he had secured an obscenely talented pipeline of Indiana-bound recruits years ahead of their arrival to campus.  If we had, say, Whitehead and Thomas Bryant verballed already with Jermaine and Jordan coming in next year, this year's record is forgivable.