2nd Half Collapses / In-game Adjustments

Blown 5 halftime leads so far..
Notre Dame
Providence
Rutgers
UNC Ashville
Murray State

And we were within striking distance in a handful of other games where, if we turned it up in the 2nd half, we could've won.  But we collapsed instead.
Pittsburgh - down by 3, lose by 16
Villanova - down by 3, lose by 12 (granted, it went to OT)
Baylor - down by 3, lose by 19

And ideas why other teams seem to figure us out in the 2nd half, but we can't do the same?   Weren't we supposed to be able to tire teams out in the second half by pushing the tempo?   
I honestly can't explain it, although I'm sure the youth and inexperience plays a part.  But, that can't be the whole reason. 

And ideas why other teams seem to figure us out in the 2nd half, but we can't do the same?   Weren't we supposed to be able to tire teams out in the second half by pushing the tempo?   
I honestly can't explain it, although I'm sure the youth and inexperience plays a part.  But, that can't be the whole reason.

If you could reduce SJ coaches to one iconic image, what would it be? For me, Louie would be punching the air on one foot after Berry blocks Washington's lay up in the BE championship. Jarvis would be crouched down wincing and pinching the bridge of his nose. Norm would have his face scrunched up exhorting his players to "be tough." Fran would have his hand in his pants. Mahoney would be harder: I guess he'd be sitting next to Lou and Rutledge in the stands after his well earned firing. Lavin OTOH is easy: he'd be standing on the sidelines ineffectually whirling his hands in a circle while his La Brea tar pit "offense" stood there curdling.

Which is to say, what vapid platitude is Lavin going to impart at halftime that he hasn't imparted before then. If you watch him during time outs half the time he's jumping up and down flapping his arms like he's trying to teach them how to do the hokey pokey and when he's not doing that he's nodding at them like he's auditioning for a role as a bobble head doll.

His game plan seemingly is to recruit athletes and roll out the balls. If that's not working there's not much to say. He does his best coaching sitting in recruits living rooms. Which is fine as far as it goes but Pete Carill it ain't.

I don't think we lost yesterday because Lavin failed to make HT adjustments. We lost because Mike Brey - who's an actual BB coach - reminded his team what sport they were playing and against whom. If that counts as the other guy "figuring us out" then I agree. But it doesn't seem to me like there's a lot there to dicipher.

Quote from: desco80 on March 06, 2013, 01:55:38 PM

And ideas why other teams seem to figure us out in the 2nd half, but we can't do the same?   Weren't we supposed to be able to tire teams out in the second half by pushing the tempo?   
I honestly can't explain it, although I'm sure the youth and inexperience plays a part.  But, that can't be the whole reason.

If you could reduce SJ coaches to one iconic image, what would it be? For me, Louie would be punching the air on one foot after Berry blocks Washington's lay up in the BE championship. Jarvis would be crouched down wincing and pinching the bridge of his nose. Norm would have his face scrunched up exhorting his players to "be tough." Fran would have his hand in his pants. Mahoney would be harder: I guess he'd be sitting next to Lou and Rutledge in the stands after his well earned firing. Lavin OTOH is easy: he'd be standing on the sidelines ineffectually whirling his hands in a circle while his La Brea tar pit "offense" stood there curdling.

Which is to say, what vapid platitude is Lavin going to impart at halftime that he hasn't imparted before then. If you watch him during time outs half the time he's jumping up and down flapping his arms like he's trying to teach them how to do the hokey pokey and when he's not doing that he's nodding at them like he's auditioning for a role as a bobble head doll.

His game plan seemingly is to recruit athletes and roll out the balls. If that's not working there's not much to say. He does his best coaching sitting in recruits living rooms. Which is fine as far as it goes but Pete Carill it ain't.

I don't think we lost yesterday because Lavin failed to make HT adjustments. We lost because Mike Brey - who's an actual BB coach - reminded his team what sport they were playing and against whom. If that counts as the other guy "figuring us out" then I agree. But it doesn't seem to me like there's a lot there to dicipher.

His offense looked fine 2 years ago carving up Pitt, Gtown, Conn, Duke etc etc

quote "His offense looked fine 2 years ago carving up Pitt, Gtown, Conn, Duke etc etc "

Dwight Hardy. Offense was the same and if you go back people were complaining about it then. Hardy could make plays at the end of the clock, we started winning and winning stops all complaints. Harrison and especially Greene are not Hardy!

If you could reduce SJ coaches to one iconic image, what would it be? For me, Louie would be punching the air on one foot after Berry blocks Washington's lay up in the BE championship. Jarvis would be crouched down wincing and pinching the bridge of his nose. Norm would have his face scrunched up exhorting his players to "be tough." Fran would have his hand in his pants. Mahoney would be harder: I guess he'd be sitting next to Lou and Rutledge in the stands after his well earned firing. Lavin OTOH is easy: he'd be standing on the sidelines ineffectually whirling his hands in a circle while his La Brea tar pit "offense" stood there curdling.

Which is to say, what vapid platitude is Lavin going to impart at halftime that he hasn't imparted before then. If you watch him during time outs half the time he's jumping up and down flapping his arms like he's trying to teach them how to do the hokey pokey and when he's not doing that he's nodding at them like he's auditioning for a role as a bobble head doll.

His game plan seemingly is to recruit athletes and roll out the balls. If that's not working there's not much to say. He does his best coaching sitting in recruits living rooms. Which is fine as far as it goes but Pete Carill it ain't.

I don't think we lost yesterday because Lavin failed to make HT adjustments. We lost because Mike Brey - who's an actual BB coach - reminded his team what sport they were playing and against whom. If that counts as the other guy "figuring us out" then I agree. But it doesn't seem to me like there's a lot there to dicipher.-Fun



AHHHH the memories

His offense looked fine 2 years ago carving up Pitt, Gtown, Conn, Duke etc etc

His offense two years ago was implented by 10 guys who were playing professional basketball six months later. This team would be fine if it were similarly staffed, or even if it had five Jakarr Sampsons. Unfortunately it has Phil Greene. That's some poor planning right there.

Quote from: CC on March 06, 2013, 02:27:15 PM

His offense looked fine 2 years ago carving up Pitt, Gtown, Conn, Duke etc etc

His offense two years ago was implented by 10 guys who were playing professional basketball six months later. This team would be fine if it were similarly staffed, or even if it had five Jakarr Sampsons. Unfortunately it has Phil Greene. That's some poor planning right there.

I don't think Greene was expected to be a starter firing up 14 bricks per game when Lavin recruited him. If I remember he was described as a role/bench player.

Quote from: CC on March 06, 2013, 02:27:15 PM

His offense looked fine 2 years ago carving up Pitt, Gtown, Conn, Duke etc etc

His offense two years ago was implented by 10 guys who were playing professional basketball six months later. This team would be fine if it were similarly staffed, or even if it had five Jakarr Sampsons. Unfortunately it has Phil Greene. That's some poor planning right there.

If we had five Jakarrs we would never see two passes in a row.

10 guys playing pro ball... Wow.  That's incredible.

Quote from: CC on March 06, 2013, 02:27:15 PM

His offense looked fine 2 years ago carving up Pitt, Gtown, Conn, Duke etc etc

His offense two years ago was implented by 10 guys who were playing professional basketball six months later. This team would be fine if it were similarly staffed, or even if it had five Jakarr Sampsons. Unfortunately it has Phil Greene. That's some poor planning right there.

Is it the strategy itself or the implementation of said plan?
Either way it's a failure on Lavin's part, but I think you could argue that Dunlap was able to teach the offense to a well rounded and experienced group 2 years ago.
Last year we had 6 players, and no amount of strategic advantage was going to overcome that.
But this year the team is back to struggling - is it the offensive system he's chosen?  Or, how he's teaching it to the team?

In that regard, I'm not sure.  Maybe a little of both.   

Quote-I don't think Greene was expected to be a starter firing up 14 bricks per game when Lavin recruited him. If I remember he was described as a role/bench player.

This fact does not seem to bother Lavin or Carmine. Actually are we sure Carmine is not Lavin?

10 guys playing pro ball... Wow.  That's incredible.

Also not true.

Quote from: boo3 on March 06, 2013, 02:44:19 PM

10 guys playing pro ball... Wow.  That's incredible.

 

Also not true.

 Yes. I know.  I forgot my eye rolly thing.   

Also not true.

Kennedy, Hardy, Horne, Mason, Brownlee, Evans, Burrell, Boothe, Rob Thomas, and poor Dele Coker of the Eastern BB Assn.

I'll hold my breath await your apology, starting ..... now.

Quote from: mkras99 on March 06, 2013, 02:49:55 PM

Quote from: boo3 on March 06, 2013, 02:44:19 PM

10 guys playing pro ball... Wow.  That's incredible.

 

Also not true.

 Yes. I know.  I forgot my eye rolly thing.

The 2010-11 team was picked by the BE coaches to finish fairly high in the standings, with Pitino, I believe, picking them to be tops in the league.  This year's team, which was supposed to include Sanchez, was picked to finish last in the BE.  Lavin inherited a strong, deep team his first year, and managed not to screw things up with it.  After this year's performance, I am ever more impressed with what Dunlap did with last year's group.  Our guys are very talented, but not enough to win without solid coaching.

Quote from: mkras99 on March 06, 2013, 02:49:55 PM

Quote from: boo3 on March 06, 2013, 02:44:19 PM

10 guys playing pro ball... Wow.  That's incredible.

 

Also not true.

 Yes. I know.  I forgot my eye rolly thing.

10 was an exaggeration.
Fun can fight his own battles, but I know you get his point.   
DJ, Hardy, Paris, Brownlee, Burrell, Evans, and Quincy R.

And I'd add Dunlap as a "pro" that team had.

Point is, if you need an NBA caliber assistant, and a number of future pros in their senior year, to make an offense work...then maybe you need a different strategy.  Because, I can't foresee that happening again anytime soon. 

Is it the strategy itself or the implementation of said plan?

I'm resisting the temptation to ask what plan.

Perhaps we can call it the alleged plan. The alleged plan will work if you have 3 guys who can score off the dribble. Because as far as I can tell that's the offense. Run the weave for 30 seconds and hope somebody makes a play. Year one he had DJ Hardy and Brownlee and a bunch of grown ass men playing against relatively speaking a bunch of underclassmen. So it worked. Then Kennedy went down and it didn't work anymore. It hasn't worked since. It's not working this year. Maybe it'll work next year. In the meanwhile I'm not expecting bobble head to have an epiphany.

quote "His offense looked fine 2 years ago carving up Pitt, Gtown, Conn, Duke etc etc "

Dwight Hardy. Offense was the same and if you go back people were complaining about it then. Hardy could make plays at the end of the clock, we started winning and winning stops all complaints. Harrison and especially Greene are not Hardy!

Exactly. I remember questioning repeatedly why Polee always had the ball in his hands 40 feet from the basket.

People also need to differentiate between our offense vs man and our offense vs zone. In 2010-11 our offense vs man was as uncreative and motionless as it is this year, but it wasnt as bad as this year's "weave-high screen-somebody get open" offense. Where we really excelled two years ago was against the zone, with superior ball movement and Brownlee operating at the foul line for short jumpers or passes to open cutters, and getting points off the break. We didnt execute some disciplined offense against Duke, we rebounded and ran their asses off the floor from start to finish. And as WASJU pointed out, Hardy was out of his mind with the last second of the shot clock shots that year.

Quote from: mkras99 on March 06, 2013, 02:49:55 PM

Also not true.

Kennedy, Hardy, Horne, Mason, Brownlee, Evans, Burrell, Boothe, Rob Thomas, and poor Dele Coker of the Eastern BB Assn.

I'll hold my breath await your apology, starting ..... now.

Where did Boothe and Thomas play?  Dele was playing six months after graduation?

Quote from: Foad on March 06, 2013, 03:07:45 PM

Quote from: mkras99 on March 06, 2013, 02:49:55 PM

Also not true.

Kennedy, Hardy, Horne, Mason, Brownlee, Evans, Burrell, Boothe, Rob Thomas, and poor Dele Coker of the Eastern BB Assn.

I'll hold my breath await your apology, starting ..... now.

Where did Boothe and Thomas play?  Dele was playing six months after graduation?

Boothe attends pretty much every home game.