2nd Half Collapses / In-game Adjustments

In the meanwhile I'm not expecting bobble head to have an epiphany. 

I'm still holding out hope.  I think Lavin knows enough to at least recognize when something isn't working.   
Last season we needed shooting in the worst way, say what you want but he brought in Marco and Hooper.   We had no inside presence at all, he got a kid who leads the country in blocks. 

His prescriptions may not be the answer, but I have some hope still that he won't just keep jamming a square peg into a round hole. 

Quote from: Foad on March 06, 2013, 03:07:45 PM

Quote from: mkras99 on March 06, 2013, 02:49:55 PM

Also not true.

Kennedy, Hardy, Horne, Mason, Brownlee, Evans, Burrell, Boothe, Rob Thomas, and poor Dele Coker of the Eastern BB Assn.

I'll hold my breath await your apology, starting ..... now.

Where did Boothe and Thomas play?  Dele was playing six months after graduation?

Those are the hairs you're splitting? Rob Thomas is or was playing in Russia. Boothe is playing in the metro area somewhere. Google google google. http://basketball.usbasket.com/player/Malik_Boothe/North_Jersey_Pros/137083. Ditto Coker. I'm not in possession of Dele's CV currently, so I can't tell you exactly when he received his first paycheck. Could have been 6 months, might have been 8, might have been a year. Might have been two. So, at least 7 players playing professionally in 6 months, and 10 playing professionally w/in two years. Thank goodness we have that cleared up. I feel fortunate you're here to fact check my hyperbole.

I'm willing to redact my original statement. Lavin had 10 future pros implementing his offense, not counting future NBA player Quincy Roberts, which makes eleven. My point stands. Your objection is over ruled on the ground that it's inane.

Quote from: mkras99 on March 06, 2013, 03:42:13 PM

Quote from: Foad on March 06, 2013, 03:07:45 PM

Quote from: mkras99 on March 06, 2013, 02:49:55 PM

Also not true.

Kennedy, Hardy, Horne, Mason, Brownlee, Evans, Burrell, Boothe, Rob Thomas, and poor Dele Coker of the Eastern BB Assn.

I'll hold my breath await your apology, starting ..... now.

Where did Boothe and Thomas play?  Dele was playing six months after graduation?

Those are the hairs you're splitting? Rob Thomas is or was playing in Russia. Boothe is playing in the metro area somewhere. Google google google. http://basketball.usbasket.com/player/Malik_Boothe/North_Jersey_Pros/137083. Ditto Coker. I'm not in possession of Dele's CV currently, so I can't tell you exactly when he received his first paycheck. Could have been 6 months, might have been 8, might have been a year. Might have been two. So, at least 7 players playing professionally in 6 months, and 10 playing professionally w/in two years. Thank goodness we have that cleared up. I feel fortunate you're here to fact check my hyperbole.

I'm willing to redact my original statement. Lavin had 10 future pros implementing his offense, not counting future NBA player Quincy Roberts, which makes eleven. My point stands. Your objection is over ruled on the ground that it's inane.

This may be the first time you've ever admitted to being wrong.  Thanks.

This may be the first time you've ever admitted to being wrong.  Thanks.

Wrong is poor choice of words. I exagerate pretty regularly and only nitwits take such statements literally. Like when I call Lavin a bobblehead, I don't think he's actually made of plastic and when I say he's jumping around I don't really think he's teaching Jakarr Sampson the Chicken Dance. You can consider those mistakes if you like but I don't see the point. As they say, irony is wasted on the stupid. On the other hand I'm happy to acknowledge when I make an error of fact. It just that it happens so rarely, because I don't, you know, talk out my ass.

Quote from: mkras99 on March 06, 2013, 04:08:03 PM

This may be the first time you've ever admitted to being wrong.  Thanks.

Wrong is poor choice of words. I exagerate pretty regularly and only nitwits take such statements literally. Like when I call Lavin a bobblehead, I don't think he's actually made of plastic and when I say he's jumping around I don't really think he's teaching Jakarr Sampson the Chicken Dance. You can consider those mistakes if you like but I don't see the point. As they say, irony is wasted on the stupid. On the other hand I'm happy to acknowledge when I make an error of fact. It just that it happens so rarely, because I don't, you know, talk out my ass.

Apologies - first time I recall you admitting to making an error in fact.  Thanks.

Quote from: Foad on March 06, 2013, 03:15:28 PM

In the meanwhile I'm not expecting bobble head to have an epiphany. 

I'm still holding out hope.  I think Lavin knows enough to at least recognize when something isn't working.   
Last season we needed shooting in the worst way, say what you want but he brought in Marco and Hooper.   We had no inside presence at all, he got a kid who leads the country in blocks. 

His prescriptions may not be the answer, but I have some hope still that he won't just keep jamming a square peg into a round hole. 

Besides being supposed shooters, are Hooper and March on the squad because of Sanchez and Sampson? I'm not sure they bring much to the plate, as Marco can't get off the bench, when we are desperate for scoring. Hooper from what I understand is slower the MB. So unless Sanchez is the real deal, we tend to over hype our incoming players, I am still not comfortable about next years NCAA chances. Am I off base here?

Quote from: mkras99 on March 06, 2013, 02:49:55 PM

Also not true.

Kennedy, Hardy, Horne, Mason, Brownlee, Evans, Burrell, Boothe, Rob Thomas, and poor Dele Coker of the Eastern BB Assn.

I'll hold my breath await your apology, starting ..... now.

Mason never played for Lav.

Blown 5 halftime leads so far..
Notre Dame
Providence
Rutgers
UNC Ashville
Murray State

And we were within striking distance in a handful of other games where, if we turned it up in the 2nd half, we could've won.  But we collapsed instead.
Pittsburgh - down by 3, lose by 16
Villanova - down by 3, lose by 12 (granted, it went to OT)
Baylor - down by 3, lose by 19

And ideas why other teams seem to figure us out in the 2nd half, but we can't do the same?   Weren't we supposed to be able to tire teams out in the second half by pushing the tempo?   
I honestly can't explain it, although I'm sure the youth and inexperience plays a part.  But, that can't be the whole reason.

I think we are not good enough yet to just out-athletic a team for 40 minutes...unless you are so much more physically gifted, somewhere along the line you have to grind it out which requires discipline...the discipline to know that you can't win by simply shooting outside shots all night....there are plenty of teams that aren't great shooting teams but seem to find a way to stop the opposition's run by getting some free throws, putbacks etc...   

Quote from: desco80 on March 06, 2013, 01:55:38 PM

And ideas why other teams seem to figure us out in the 2nd half, but we can't do the same?   Weren't we supposed to be able to tire teams out in the second half by pushing the tempo?   
I honestly can't explain it, although I'm sure the youth and inexperience plays a part.  But, that can't be the whole reason.

If you could reduce SJ coaches to one iconic image, what would it be? For me, Louie would be punching the air on one foot after Berry blocks Washington's lay up in the BE championship. Jarvis would be crouched down wincing and pinching the bridge of his nose. Norm would have his face scrunched up exhorting his players to "be tough." Fran would have his hand in his pants. Mahoney would be harder: I guess he'd be sitting next to Lou and Rutledge in the stands after his well earned firing. Lavin OTOH is easy: he'd be standing on the sidelines ineffectually whirling his hands in a circle while his La Brea tar pit "offense" stood there curdling.

Which is to say, what vapid platitude is Lavin going to impart at halftime that he hasn't imparted before then. If you watch him during time outs half the time he's jumping up and down flapping his arms like he's trying to teach them how to do the hokey pokey and when he's not doing that he's nodding at them like he's auditioning for a role as a bobble head doll.

His game plan seemingly is to recruit athletes and roll out the balls. If that's not working there's not much to say. He does his best coaching sitting in recruits living rooms. Which is fine as far as it goes but Pete Carill it ain't.

I don't think we lost yesterday because Lavin failed to make HT adjustments. We lost because Mike Brey - who's an actual BB coach - reminded his team what sport they were playing and against whom. If that counts as the other guy "figuring us out" then I agree. But it doesn't seem to me like there's a lot there to dicipher.

One of these years Brey - who's an actual BB coach - may figure out how to win a couple of NCAA games.  Has he ever had a decent post season run?

Quote from: Foad on March 06, 2013, 02:23:11 PM

Quote from: desco80 on March 06, 2013, 01:55:38 PM

And ideas why other teams seem to figure us out in the 2nd half, but we can't do the same?   Weren't we supposed to be able to tire teams out in the second half by pushing the tempo?   
I honestly can't explain it, although I'm sure the youth and inexperience plays a part.  But, that can't be the whole reason.

If you could reduce SJ coaches to one iconic image, what would it be? For me, Louie would be punching the air on one foot after Berry blocks Washington's lay up in the BE championship. Jarvis would be crouched down wincing and pinching the bridge of his nose. Norm would have his face scrunched up exhorting his players to "be tough." Fran would have his hand in his pants. Mahoney would be harder: I guess he'd be sitting next to Lou and Rutledge in the stands after his well earned firing. Lavin OTOH is easy: he'd be standing on the sidelines ineffectually whirling his hands in a circle while his La Brea tar pit "offense" stood there curdling.

Which is to say, what vapid platitude is Lavin going to impart at halftime that he hasn't imparted before then. If you watch him during time outs half the time he's jumping up and down flapping his arms like he's trying to teach them how to do the hokey pokey and when he's not doing that he's nodding at them like he's auditioning for a role as a bobble head doll.

His game plan seemingly is to recruit athletes and roll out the balls. If that's not working there's not much to say. He does his best coaching sitting in recruits living rooms. Which is fine as far as it goes but Pete Carill it ain't.

I don't think we lost yesterday because Lavin failed to make HT adjustments. We lost because Mike Brey - who's an actual BB coach - reminded his team what sport they were playing and against whom. If that counts as the other guy "figuring us out" then I agree. But it doesn't seem to me like there's a lot there to dicipher.

One of these years Brey - who's an actual BB coach - may figure out how to win a couple of NCAA games.  Has he ever had a decent post season run?

If they played the tournament in November Mike Brey would be Coach K.

Funny how's fans get....
Go over to the ND board and they is a sizeable population that wants to kick Brey out.
Same in the Pitt boards.
Same on the Nova boards.
Same on the Gtown boards.
And on and on....

Funny how's fans get....
Go over to the ND board and they is a sizeable population that wants to kick Brey out.
Same in the Pitt boards.
Same on the Nova boards.
Same on the Gtown boards.
And on and on....

Brey is a great coach until the tournament begins. Then he becomes a terrible coach.

Quote from: Choz4Life on March 07, 2013, 07:25:50 AM

Funny how's fans get....
Go over to the ND board and they is a sizeable population that wants to kick Brey out.
Same in the Pitt boards.
Same on the Nova boards.
Same on the Gtown boards.
And on and on....

Brey is a great coach until the tournament begins. Then he becomes a terrible coach.

Dixon has done a great job at Pitt, but I believe also does not fare well in post season.

One of these years Brey - who's an actual BB coach - may figure out how to win a couple of NCAA games.  Has he ever had a decent post season run?

Not the criteria I'd use to determine whether someone's a good coach. Pete Carril was one the great coaches ever and I don't know that he ever made it out of the first round. You'd be hard pressed to find someone with a worse post season record than Louie.

Brey is the Bobby Cox of CBB. He's certainly not a bad a coach, but he's almost always taking a spot from a team that is prepared for March. They'll get a 5 seed and some mid major will house them.

Funny how's fans get....
Go over to the ND board and they is a sizeable population that wants to kick Brey out.
Same in the Pitt boards.
Same on the Nova boards.
Same on the Gtown boards.
And on and on....

I don't want Lavin out at all.  I think he has been a major positive for St. John's and will continue to be in the future.

What I do want to see is a team that has a system in place.  The team's offense has been one dimensional all season and honestly the players don't really look like they know where they need to be.  Watching them against ND was painful.

Quote from: Choz4Life on March 07, 2013, 07:25:50 AM

Funny how's fans get....
Go over to the ND board and they is a sizeable population that wants to kick Brey out.
Same in the Pitt boards.
Same on the Nova boards.
Same on the Gtown boards.
And on and on....

I don't want Lavin out at all.  I think he has been a major positive for St. John's and will continue to be in the future.

What I do want to see is a team that has a system in place.  The team's offense has been one dimensional all season and honestly the players don't really look like they know where they need to be.  Watching them against ND was painful.

Unfortunately if you want Lavin here you're not going to have an offensive system or a team that knows how to rebound and shoot free throws.  Please make up your mind.

His offense looked fine 2 years ago carving up Pitt, Gtown, Conn, Duke etc etc

That was Mike Dunlaps Offense.
Lavin has no offense and really doesnt know what he is doing when it comes to game strategy

Quote from: CC on March 06, 2013, 02:27:15 PM

His offense looked fine 2 years ago carving up Pitt, Gtown, Conn, Duke etc etc

That was Mike Dunlaps Offense.
Lavin has no offense and really doesnt know what he is doing when it comes to game strategy

Don't we have notes and game tape from those games?
Can't that be recreated?

Quote from: uwsfan on March 07, 2013, 01:33:18 PM

Quote from: CC on March 06, 2013, 02:27:15 PM

His offense looked fine 2 years ago carving up Pitt, Gtown, Conn, Duke etc etc

That was Mike Dunlaps Offense.
Lavin has no offense and really doesnt know what he is doing when it comes to game strategy

Don't we have notes and game tape from those games?
Can't that be recreated?

This is why I think the offense, as a system, might not be terrible.    (or at least it's possible)
But now we have different people "teaching" the system to our guys.    It's possible Lavin and co. aren't as good as Dunlap was at explaining and demonstrating things.  Maybe Dunlap had better drills.  I don't know.    But you could give me Bill Walsh's west coast offense playbook, and I might not do a good job of implementing it.   Give that same playbook to Charlie Weiss or Sean Payton and you'll get better results.