JaKarr ROY

STJFAN how many games have you actually seen this year?  Ive watched all but one and Jakarr shot most of his jumpers past 15' and made a good amount.  Hes a good shooter, he needs strength and experience to get to the next level, not his outside shooting. Teams know they can work on a player with his shot, they cant teach strength and experience.

Quote from: STJFAN on May 01, 2013, 02:41:43 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 01, 2013, 02:23:28 AM

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Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 01, 2013, 01:59:56 AM

Quote from: STJFAN on May 01, 2013, 01:40:59 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on April 30, 2013, 08:37:55 PM

Quote from: STJFAN on April 30, 2013, 07:13:39 PM

Quote from: SweetnessCBA on April 30, 2013, 02:26:43 PM

Jakarr shot alot of long 2's.  Anyone who watched most of the games saw that, and he made a good amount of them.  He has bad form but I think hes a good shooter.

How are you defining "long 2's"? I define it as anything further than the free through line, and when I watched JK play I seen the majority of his field goal attempts are within 15'. That doesn't mean he didn't make an occassional 16-17 footer but he hardly takes shots outside of 15' away. He plays within himself and knows his limitations.   

I really can't remember him shooting many jumpers inside of the free throw line. Matter of fact hardly anyone ever takes jump shots inside the free throw line. At that point they either take it to the rim or put up a floater.

Exactly my point why JK isn't a good jump shooter. Inside 15' doesn't mean inside the key, its inside 15'. But I found this for you....

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/live/NCAAB_20130202_STJOHN@GTOWN

Im not sure what this is showing me or how I made your point. And yes I know what inside 15 feet means. Jakarr took more jumpshpts from 15 feet and out than he did inside. I wouldnt put much stock in a college shot chart honestly.

Go on the shot chart, select players, select JK. It will show you his individual shot chart for the game. If you don't want to believe what it shows you then this discussion is a moot point.

STJFAN, thanks for posting the website I didnt know you could go to individual players. Can you see every games shotchart? And not going by the shot chart is not a moot point. CBS and other sites that post college stats are often incorrect. I watched nearly every minute Jakarr played for us this year. He regularly caught the ball 15 feet or further away from the basket and attempted a jump shot. I dont know what that has to do with him being in the NBA or not.

They don't have shot charts for all the games that are archived. I'm sure there are some inaccuracies but it does give you an idea of JK outside shooting prowess. This is why he isn't leaving for the NBA this year and why its not out of the relm of possibility he may be here longer. 

If there's not shot charts for all the games than its hard to debate with myself and others memories of the games itself. You might be right, but I remember countless times during games where I harped at JaKarr to take his time instead of catching the ball 15-17 feet away from the basket and looking to shoot it right away.

Maybe not all games, but there are shot charts for many games and they all show the same story. He shot 45% from the field but many of those made field goals are layups. I doubt you would be harping at Jakarr countless amount of times to take his time instead of catching and shooting if they went in. My point is he is not a good shooter from 15' feet out.

STJFAN how many games have you actually seen this year?  Ive watched all but one and Jakarr shot most of his jumpers past 15' and made a good amount.  Hes a good shooter, he needs strength and experience to get to the next level, not his outside shooting. Teams know they can work on a player with his shot, they cant teach strength and experience.

So now he's takes most of his jumpers past 15' and makes most of them.....why is he coming back then? Have you seen his shot charts? I've seen most of his games and I have to agree with what the charts say...he cant shoot from distance. He has to prove he can, but if he doesn't they will blame the hitch in his shot. Teams can't teach strength? This is getting comical.

Look guys its pretty simple, coach contacts all GM's and asks if JK is someone they would pick in the first or second round. He's coming back to school, and its not because of his strength or experience.

So, my memory is similar to Mase's and others.  I recall Jakarr shooting a lot of jumpers from the foul line extended, and making some of them.   Not great, but better than average.   But, I'm guessing there's some truth to the shot charts.  Maybe they aren't perfect, but cbs didn't make them out of thin air either.

Maybe the jumpers just stand out more in our minds because Jakarr was the only one who consistently hit anything that wasn't a layup.   I don't know, I can't explain it really.    Either way, he's a plus shooter, not a great shooter by any stretch.   But I don't think he has to be to dominate on the college level next year.   

So, my memory is similar to Mase's and others.  I recall Jakarr shooting a lot of jumpers from the foul line extended, and making some of them.   Not great, but better than average.   But, I'm guessing there's some truth to the shot charts.  Maybe they aren't perfect, but cbs didn't make them out of thin air either.

Maybe the jumpers just stand out more in our minds because Jakarr was the only one who consistently hit anything that wasn't a layup.   I don't know, I can't explain it really.    Either way, he's a plus shooter, not a great shooter by any stretch.   But I don't think he has to be to dominate on the college level next year.

I think there is some truth to that, outside of Harrison and Greene, Jarkarr was the only other player who would attempt a jump shot on a consistent basis. Jarkarr shown to have a better shot than I thought he would have coming out of HS. If he continues to work on it I believe he could become a very good shooter, it starts with confidence, and he showed he has it. Lookin forward to watching him play next year.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 01, 2013, 10:35:54 AM

Quote from: STJFAN on May 01, 2013, 02:41:43 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 01, 2013, 02:23:28 AM

Quote from: STJFAN on May 01, 2013, 02:08:53 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 01, 2013, 01:59:56 AM

Quote from: STJFAN on May 01, 2013, 01:40:59 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on April 30, 2013, 08:37:55 PM

Quote from: STJFAN on April 30, 2013, 07:13:39 PM

Quote from: SweetnessCBA on April 30, 2013, 02:26:43 PM

Jakarr shot alot of long 2's.  Anyone who watched most of the games saw that, and he made a good amount of them.  He has bad form but I think hes a good shooter.

How are you defining "long 2's"? I define it as anything further than the free through line, and when I watched JK play I seen the majority of his field goal attempts are within 15'. That doesn't mean he didn't make an occassional 16-17 footer but he hardly takes shots outside of 15' away. He plays within himself and knows his limitations.   

I really can't remember him shooting many jumpers inside of the free throw line. Matter of fact hardly anyone ever takes jump shots inside the free throw line. At that point they either take it to the rim or put up a floater.

Exactly my point why JK isn't a good jump shooter. Inside 15' doesn't mean inside the key, its inside 15'. But I found this for you....

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/live/NCAAB_20130202_STJOHN@GTOWN

Im not sure what this is showing me or how I made your point. And yes I know what inside 15 feet means. Jakarr took more jumpshpts from 15 feet and out than he did inside. I wouldnt put much stock in a college shot chart honestly.

Go on the shot chart, select players, select JK. It will show you his individual shot chart for the game. If you don't want to believe what it shows you then this discussion is a moot point.

STJFAN, thanks for posting the website I didnt know you could go to individual players. Can you see every games shotchart? And not going by the shot chart is not a moot point. CBS and other sites that post college stats are often incorrect. I watched nearly every minute Jakarr played for us this year. He regularly caught the ball 15 feet or further away from the basket and attempted a jump shot. I dont know what that has to do with him being in the NBA or not.

They don't have shot charts for all the games that are archived. I'm sure there are some inaccuracies but it does give you an idea of JK outside shooting prowess. This is why he isn't leaving for the NBA this year and why its not out of the relm of possibility he may be here longer. 

If there's not shot charts for all the games than its hard to debate with myself and others memories of the games itself. You might be right, but I remember countless times during games where I harped at JaKarr to take his time instead of catching the ball 15-17 feet away from the basket and looking to shoot it right away.

Maybe not all games, but there are shot charts for many games and they all show the same story. He shot 45% from the field but many of those made field goals are layups. I doubt you would be harping at Jakarr countless amount of times to take his time instead of catching and shooting if they went in. My point is he is not a good shooter from 15' feet out.

I harped because he can litteraly get that shot at anytime, not because he can't make them. I just wished he would be more patient.

And you keep asking why is he coming back if he makes most of his jumpers from 15
feet out.  It's because he is positionless at the NBA level. How often do you see a 6'7/6'8 SF catch the ball 15-18 feet from the basket and be able to spot up and shoot? Very rarely, most of the time they catch the ball behind the three point line where they have to put it up from there or attack the basket, two things JaKarr has yet to prove he can do. At the college level JaKarr can catch the ball 15-18 feet from the rim and shoot it practically every time.

I harped because he can litteraly get that shot at anytime, not because he can't make them. I just wished he would be more patient.

So you harped because he should be more patient, because he's taking and missing shots he could get at anytime. That's true, its still all about making shots though and if he made those shots you wouldn't be harping would you, unless your from Phili.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 01, 2013, 01:05:07 PM

I harped because he can litteraly get that shot at anytime, not because he can't make them. I just wished he would be more patient.

So you harped because he should be more patient, because he's taking and missing shots he could get at anytime. That's true, its still all about making shots though and if he made those shots you wouldn't be harping would you, unless your from Phili.

No, I harped because he took shots to quickly. Not because he was making or missing them. Just because its a shot he can get off and make doesn't make it a good shot. I have little problem with Jakarr's 15-18 foot shot making ability, I have a problem with his shot selection.

So, my memory is similar to Mase's and others.  I recall Jakarr shooting a lot of jumpers from the foul line extended, and making some of them.   Not great, but better than average.   But, I'm guessing there's some truth to the shot charts.  Maybe they aren't perfect, but cbs didn't make them out of thin air either.

Maybe the jumpers just stand out more in our minds because Jakarr was the only one who consistently hit anything that wasn't a layup.   I don't know, I can't explain it really.    Either way, he's a plus shooter, not a great shooter by any stretch.   But I don't think he has to be to dominate on the college level next year.   

Maybe they stood out because we all expected him to miss them all   I know I did and was shocked when they went in...all year.

Quote from: STJFAN on May 01, 2013, 02:16:51 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 01, 2013, 01:05:07 PM

I harped because he can litteraly get that shot at anytime, not because he can't make them. I just wished he would be more patient.

So you harped because he should be more patient, because he's taking and missing shots he could get at anytime. That's true, its still all about making shots though and if he made those shots you wouldn't be harping would you, unless your from Phili.

No, I harped because he took shots to quickly. Not because he was making or missing them. Just because its a shot he can get off and make doesn't make it a good shot. I have little problem with Jakarr's 15-18 foot shot making ability, I have a problem with his shot selection.

C'mon man! Lets be honest here! Your not gonna harp if he's hitting those shots. No matter how rushed or bad they are. If he's hitting them he's a great player. If he doesn't, you harp. No one focuses on bad shots if you are making them. Lets be real! 

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 01, 2013, 02:40:14 PM

Quote from: STJFAN on May 01, 2013, 02:16:51 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 01, 2013, 01:05:07 PM

I harped because he can litteraly get that shot at anytime, not because he can't make them. I just wished he would be more patient.

So you harped because he should be more patient, because he's taking and missing shots he could get at anytime. That's true, its still all about making shots though and if he made those shots you wouldn't be harping would you, unless your from Phili.

No, I harped because he took shots to quickly. Not because he was making or missing them. Just because its a shot he can get off and make doesn't make it a good shot. I have little problem with Jakarr's 15-18 foot shot making ability, I have a problem with his shot selection.

C'mon man! Lets be honest here! Your not gonna harp if he's hitting those shots. No matter how rushed or bad they are. If he's hitting them he's a great player. If he doesn't, you harp. No one focuses on bad shots if you are making them. Lets be real! 

I am not taking about making or missing. I am talking about shot selection.  Carmelo Anthony is a GREAT mid range jump shooter. Often times I have a problem with his shot selection. I really don't know why you keep arguing with me, I'm just stating my honest opinion.

Quote from: STJFAN on May 01, 2013, 03:52:04 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 01, 2013, 02:40:14 PM

Quote from: STJFAN on May 01, 2013, 02:16:51 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 01, 2013, 01:05:07 PM

I harped because he can litteraly get that shot at anytime, not because he can't make them. I just wished he would be more patient.

So you harped because he should be more patient, because he's taking and missing shots he could get at anytime. That's true, its still all about making shots though and if he made those shots you wouldn't be harping would you, unless your from Phili.

No, I harped because he took shots to quickly. Not because he was making or missing them. Just because its a shot he can get off and make doesn't make it a good shot. I have little problem with Jakarr's 15-18 foot shot making ability, I have a problem with his shot selection.

C'mon man! Lets be honest here! Your not gonna harp if he's hitting those shots. No matter how rushed or bad they are. If he's hitting them he's a great player. If he doesn't, you harp. No one focuses on bad shots if you are making them. Lets be real! 

I am not taking about making or missing. I am talking about shot selection.  Carmelo Anthony is a GREAT mid range jump shooter. Often times I have a problem with his shot selection. I really don't know why you keep arguing with me, I'm just stating my honest opinion.

I was trying to make a point which originally started off as JK isn't a good jump shooter and you seemed to disagree with it. When you stated you remember continuously harping about his shot selection, I was attempting to use that as evidence as JK not being a good shooter because if he consistently made his shots, regardless if they were good shots, then you wouldn't be harping.

Somehow that was suppose to get you to agree that he must not be a good jump shooter. It came across smoother in my head, not trying to argue with you. We can agree to disagree.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 01, 2013, 04:21:55 PM

Quote from: STJFAN on May 01, 2013, 03:52:04 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 01, 2013, 02:40:14 PM

Quote from: STJFAN on May 01, 2013, 02:16:51 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 01, 2013, 01:05:07 PM

I harped because he can litteraly get that shot at anytime, not because he can't make them. I just wished he would be more patient.

So you harped because he should be more patient, because he's taking and missing shots he could get at anytime. That's true, its still all about making shots though and if he made those shots you wouldn't be harping would you, unless your from Phili.

No, I harped because he took shots to quickly. Not because he was making or missing them. Just because its a shot he can get off and make doesn't make it a good shot. I have little problem with Jakarr's 15-18 foot shot making ability, I have a problem with his shot selection.

C'mon man! Lets be honest here! Your not gonna harp if he's hitting those shots. No matter how rushed or bad they are. If he's hitting them he's a great player. If he doesn't, you harp. No one focuses on bad shots if you are making them. Lets be real! 

I am not taking about making or missing. I am talking about shot selection.  Carmelo Anthony is a GREAT mid range jump shooter. Often times I have a problem with his shot selection. I really don't know why you keep arguing with me, I'm just stating my honest opinion.

I was trying to make a point which originally started off as JK isn't a good jump shooter and you seemed to disagree with it. When you stated you remember continuously harping about his shot selection, I was attempting to use that as evidence as JK not being a good shooter because if he consistently made his shots, regardless if they were good shots, then you wouldn't be harping.

Somehow that was suppose to get you to agree that he must not be a good jump shooter. It came across smoother in my head, not trying to argue with you. We can agree to disagree.

No worries STJFAN. This is my last stance on this just to get it out in the open: I think JaKarr is a pretty good jump shooter from 15-18
feet, certainly not a bad one IMO. I just wish he wouldn't depend on it as much and that he would look to attack the basket or even post up closer to the block a little more.

Quote from: STJFAN on May 01, 2013, 05:19:16 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 01, 2013, 04:21:55 PM

Quote from: STJFAN on May 01, 2013, 03:52:04 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 01, 2013, 02:40:14 PM

Quote from: STJFAN on May 01, 2013, 02:16:51 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on May 01, 2013, 01:05:07 PM

I harped because he can litteraly get that shot at anytime, not because he can't make them. I just wished he would be more patient.

So you harped because he should be more patient, because he's taking and missing shots he could get at anytime. That's true, its still all about making shots though and if he made those shots you wouldn't be harping would you, unless your from Phili.

No, I harped because he took shots to quickly. Not because he was making or missing them. Just because its a shot he can get off and make doesn't make it a good shot. I have little problem with Jakarr's 15-18 foot shot making ability, I have a problem with his shot selection.

C'mon man! Lets be honest here! Your not gonna harp if he's hitting those shots. No matter how rushed or bad they are. If he's hitting them he's a great player. If he doesn't, you harp. No one focuses on bad shots if you are making them. Lets be real! 

I am not taking about making or missing. I am talking about shot selection.  Carmelo Anthony is a GREAT mid range jump shooter. Often times I have a problem with his shot selection. I really don't know why you keep arguing with me, I'm just stating my honest opinion.

I was trying to make a point which originally started off as JK isn't a good jump shooter and you seemed to disagree with it. When you stated you remember continuously harping about his shot selection, I was attempting to use that as evidence as JK not being a good shooter because if he consistently made his shots, regardless if they were good shots, then you wouldn't be harping.

Somehow that was suppose to get you to agree that he must not be a good jump shooter. It came across smoother in my head, not trying to argue with you. We can agree to disagree.

No worries STJFAN. This is my last stance on this just to get it out in the open: I think JaKarr is a pretty good jump shooter from 15-18
feet, certainly not a bad one IMO. I just wish he wouldn't depend on it as much and that he would look to attack the basket or even post up closer to the block a little more.

+1 I hope he really expands on that this year. He showed a decent ability with the ball at SMSV but then he was pretty much a 4/5 at Brewster.  That ability will be what will get him past guys like CJ Fair and be a dominant player instead of a very good one.  You can't dominate if you can't create.

This might upset some people, but CJ Fair is pretty good.
Granted, he was a junior.   But he hit 47% of his 3s, and was good from the line,  in addition to being ridiculously athletic.   I'm not sure I see that happening for Karr.

With that said, I'm thrilled Jakarr is coming back, and expect him to be very very good.   

This might upset some people, but CJ Fair is pretty good.
Granted, he was a junior.   But he hit 47% of his 3s, and was good from the line,  in addition to being ridiculously athletic.   I'm not sure I see that happening for Karr.

With that said, I'm thrilled Jakarr is coming back, and expect him to be very very good.

 Cj Fair, as a freshman,  took 3 three pointers all season, making one, and averaged 6 ppg.   

Quote from: desco80 on May 01, 2013, 06:57:18 PM

This might upset some people, but CJ Fair is pretty good.
Granted, he was a junior.   But he hit 47% of his 3s, and was good from the line,  in addition to being ridiculously athletic.   I'm not sure I see that happening for Karr.

With that said, I'm thrilled Jakarr is coming back, and expect him to be very very good.

 Cj Fair, as a freshman,  took 3 three pointers all season, making one, and averaged 6 ppg.   

How many minutes? I thought he was damn good from the start, just had upperclassmen in his way. He's one of my favorite players in the college game.

Quote from: boo3 on May 01, 2013, 07:03:06 PM

Quote from: desco80 on May 01, 2013, 06:57:18 PM

This might upset some people, but CJ Fair is pretty good.
Granted, he was a junior.   But he hit 47% of his 3s, and was good from the line,  in addition to being ridiculously athletic.   I'm not sure I see that happening for Karr.

With that said, I'm thrilled Jakarr is coming back, and expect him to be very very good.

 Cj Fair, as a freshman,  took 3 three pointers all season, making one, and averaged 6 ppg.   

How many minutes? I thought he was damn good from the start, just had upperclassmen in his way. He's one of my favorite players in the college game.

 He averaged 18 minutes a game.. I like Cj Fair a lot, especially for a syracuse player.  I just don't like comparing him as a junior to Sampson as a freshman.  Better to compare their freshmen seasons. 

 Point being, as the player matures, so does their game. Sky is the limit for Sampson. No reason he can't develop into a good 3 point shooter like Fair has.

CJ Fair is a guy that does a lot of things really well, but he doesn't have the complete game to dominate.  He needs others around him to create for him. He's not a guy you can dump it to consistently in the low post and he's not a guy that can kill you off the bounce or one-one-one.  He hits wide open threes all day long, he can take it to the hoop when a defender closes out too recklessly, and he is best on the offensive glass and in transition.

Not every guy has to be that kind of player and Syracuse wouldnt have been anywhere near as good without him.  I think Sampson has the potential to be a more complete offensive player.  Who knows?

I agree with Boo that it's difficult to compare a freshmen to a junior.   And they had different roles as freshmen, Jakarr was asked to do it all right away.

I just think generally speaking its a fair to look at CJ's career as a barometer for Jakarr.   And it's certainly possible Karr ends up the better player, but like Fair, he would need to improve each year.