Talked to D'angelo at the game yesterday

Cause Lav is diabolical.

When Lavin does stupid things at the beginning of the year we're supposed to believe its all part of his master plan to prepare his team for March. He's experimenting with players and plans and combinations and schemes because he's a forward looking genyious with a far reaching plan. When he does stupid things at the end of the year it's because his father died and he had cancer and Harrison nearly missed the bus.

I don't think Lavin is diabolical. I think he's shallow and lacking in self awareness, as are many celebrities. I think the UCLA fans who watched him for many years had it right: he's a charming guy and a superior recruiter and a mediocre coach.

Quote from: Poison on March 15, 2013, 11:53:10 AM

Quote from: boo3 on March 15, 2013, 11:49:47 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 15, 2013, 11:46:45 AM

Quote from: boo3 on March 15, 2013, 11:44:15 AM

Up until the last 1/4 of the season, I think the team performed at or above expectations.  We were tied for third in the BE at one point.   He missed a week and the the team fell off the rails.   It is what it is. 

 I'm not going to start psychoanalysis on coach. I'm not going to second guess his decision to bench Harrison.  Why would I?  Anyone remotely close to the program said it was a long time coming. 

 It was his second year coaching here technically.  I knew it would take 4-5 years.  If you did not, that's on you.

Lavin himself said 3 years. Why is it on us if we believed him?

 Gee Poison, I don't know.  Your smart enough to figure it out I think.  Fordham spelled it out pretty clearly.  I know you don't care, but, like I said, that's on you.

Nothing has been intelligently spelled out. Certainly not by Fordham. Lavin missed one year. Not two. Be as sarcastic as you like, but your math sucks if you think Lavin's 13-14 season should be a rebuilding one.

 I didn't say that.  Last year and this year were rebuilding. Next year, year 4, cry all you want if we don't make tourney. I'll be there with you.

There is no explanation for it.  None.  It is incomprehensible how insane his post is.  I specifically said 13-14 needs to be an NCAA year period as well.  AND LAVIN STATED THAT AS SUCH.  PERIOD.

I think the UCLA fans who watched him for many years had it right: he's a charming guy and a superior recruiter and a mediocre coach.

I agree wit this statement.

Except the UCLA fans thought Lav was diabolical. Just like they think Ben Howland is diabolical now that he aint winnin like he use to.

Just like STJ fans is startin to.

Which is silly.

So um choz, if I read your post correctly which is usually no easy task for me, the main part of your argument is that other coaches including Louie were not nice? Not sure how that answered my question but ok.

As far as the Dom Pointer thing, I would be happier if th answer was he was looking for air time. The alternative was that of all the things he has seen, that was the thing he tried to correct? Not our stagnate offense, poor, rebounding, shooting and passing. But our inbounds defense?

The part about playing walkon's, I went to Page 2 as you suggested but neither Bill Simmons or Rick Reilly mentioned anything about that.

Need to do a better job recruiting. Need to target some basketball players, not just athletes.

Quote from: Foad on March 15, 2013, 12:03:14 PM

I think the UCLA fans who watched him for many years had it right: he's a charming guy and a superior recruiter and a mediocre coach.

I agree wit this statement.

Except the UCLA fans thought Lav was diabolical. Just like they think Ben Howland is diabolical now that he aint winnin like he use to.

Just like STJ fans is startin to.

Which is silly.

Diabolical has three meanings: devilish; excrutiatingly bad; and fiendishly clever. I don't think anyone thinks he's the first and if they do I agree that that's absurd. The argument is between those who think he's two or three. After three years I'm firmly in camp two. You cannot convince me that he's not a complete nitwit. The success of the basketball prgram moving forward depends on his ability to recruit better than he thinks, because he does the latter poorly.

He's a charming guy and a superior recruiter and a mediocre coach.

Foad, not trying to be confrontational, but what is wrong with that description?  Of course, I would love a superior recruiter and a superior coach.  We COULD have a mediocre recruiter and a superior coach and be in a worse position.  Again I am not questioning you, it is just a difference of opinion.  I get frustrated with some of Lavin's bench coaching, but overall I think he has done alot for this program in a short amount of time. 

Diabolical has three meanings: devilish; excrutiatingly bad; and fiendishly clever. I don't think anyone thinks he's the first and if they do I agree that that's absurd. The argument is between those who think he's two or three. After three years I'm firmly in camp two. You cannot convince me that he's not a complete nitwit. The success of the basketball prgram moving forward depends on his ability to recruit better than he thinks, because he does the latter poorly.Fun


I feel the same way.
And I do think if he stays he will outrecruit all other problems. This year was tough to watch though.

Superior recruiter?

Quote from: Choz4Life on March 15, 2013, 12:08:34 PM

Quote from: Foad on March 15, 2013, 12:03:14 PM

I think the UCLA fans who watched him for many years had it right: he's a charming guy and a superior recruiter and a mediocre coach.

I agree wit this statement.

Except the UCLA fans thought Lav was diabolical. Just like they think Ben Howland is diabolical now that he aint winnin like he use to.

Just like STJ fans is startin to.

Which is silly.

Diabolical has three meanings: devilish; excrutiatingly bad; and fiendishly clever. I don't think anyone thinks he's the first and if they do I agree that that's absurd. The argument is between those who think he's two or three. After three years I'm firmly in camp two. You cannot convince me that he's not a complete nitwit. The success of the basketball prgram moving forward depends on his ability to recruit better than he thinks, because he does the latter poorly.

But bre, you think evryone's a nitwit.

Foad, not trying to be confrontational, but what is wrong with that description?  Of course, I would love a superior recruiter and a superior coach.  We COULD have a mediocre recruiter and a superior coach and be in a worse position.  Again I am not questioning you, it is just a difference of opinion.  I get frustrated with some of Lavin's bench coaching, but overall I think he has done alot for this program in a short amount of time.

There's nothing wrong with that description and we're lucky to have him considering the possible alternatives. Eg we could be discussing the shortcomings of Coach Pecora. By himself Lavin made SJ a relevant BB again. I get that. But I don't see how that should insulate him from criticism, especially when he does things that are at best bizarre and at worst nice personic. What do you think the board's response would have been had Norm played his walk ons in the BET tournament. Okay, bad exmple, Norm would have had to make the BET tournament first. But you get the idea. He would have been crucified and with good reason. Here we get excuses. Lavin had no choice, we've had bad luck since 2009 - which is hilarious, this program has been cursed since 1985 - he had cancer, his father died, and whatever else.

This team this year was as bad as I expected it to be. I don't have a problem with that. But Lavin has been worse than I expected and I had pretty low expectations. I don't see how that's not a fair topic of conversation.

But bre, you think evryone's a nitwit.

Not so. Eg I find you witty and erudite. Anyway, most everyone's of average intelligence by definition. 

I did not ask about expectations or anything else. In fact if I were to bet I say Harrison does not come back and this team without Harrison and with Sanchez is not an NCAA team next year. I really don't have a problem with that. As I have said I do not see a better alternative for the program than Lavin.
My question was do you think he did a good job this season? If you did you would have simply said yes.

If the team doesnt make the NCAA tourny next year I  have a problem w that. Im not asking for an elite 8.Putting the walkon in the game was an idiotic move. IMO Lavins coaching skills are average at best and he should have gotton an xo guy to replace Dunlap. In lavins 1st big recruiting year ,I was dissapointed that he reruited Garritt. Its not that I dont like Garrett, but we had Pollee,Mo,Sampson,Dom. All skinny, athletic wings. He needed to balance the roster more,by getting a PG or a real post player w bulk.Lavin is a great recruiter and PR man.

Quote from: billyfa on March 15, 2013, 12:17:34 PM

Foad, not trying to be confrontational, but what is wrong with that description?  Of course, I would love a superior recruiter and a superior coach.  We COULD have a mediocre recruiter and a superior coach and be in a worse position.  Again I am not questioning you, it is just a difference of opinion.  I get frustrated with some of Lavin's bench coaching, but overall I think he has done alot for this program in a short amount of time.

There's nothing wrong with that description and we're lucky to have him considering the possible alternatives. Eg we could be discussing the shortcomings of Coach Pecora. By himself Lavin made SJ a relevant BB again. I get that. But I don't see how that should insulate him from criticism, especially when he does things that are at best bizarre and at worst nice personic. What do you think the board's response would have been had Norm played his walk ons in the BET tournament. Okay, bad exmple, Norm would have had to make the BET tournament first. But you get the idea. He would have been crucified and with good reason. Here we get excuses. Lavin had no choice, we've had bad luck since 2009 - which is hilarious, this program has been cursed since 1985 - he had cancer, his father died, and whatever else.

This team this year was as bad as I expected it to be. I don't have a problem with that. But Lavin has been worse than I expected and I had pretty low expectations. I don't see how that's not a fair topic of conversation.

Fair post and I think you make some valid points.  Hopefully, next year is "the" year we turn the corner.

Quote from: boo3 on March 15, 2013, 11:58:41 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 15, 2013, 11:53:10 AM

Quote from: boo3 on March 15, 2013, 11:49:47 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 15, 2013, 11:46:45 AM

Quote from: boo3 on March 15, 2013, 11:44:15 AM

Up until the last 1/4 of the season, I think the team performed at or above expectations.  We were tied for third in the BE at one point.   He missed a week and the the team fell off the rails.   It is what it is. 

 I'm not going to start psychoanalysis on coach. I'm not going to second guess his decision to bench Harrison.  Why would I?  Anyone remotely close to the program said it was a long time coming. 

 It was his second year coaching here technically.  I knew it would take 4-5 years.  If you did not, that's on you.

Lavin himself said 3 years. Why is it on us if we believed him?

 Gee Poison, I don't know.  Your smart enough to figure it out I think.  Fordham spelled it out pretty clearly.  I know you don't care, but, like I said, that's on you.

Nothing has been intelligently spelled out. Certainly not by Fordham. Lavin missed one year. Not two. Be as sarcastic as you like, but your math sucks if you think Lavin's 13-14 season should be a rebuilding one.

 I didn't say that.  Last year and this year were rebuilding. Next year, year 4, cry all you want if we don't make tourney. I'll be there with you.

There is no explanation for it.  None.  It is incomprehensible how insane his post is.  I specifically said 13-14 needs to be an NCAA year period as well.  AND LAVIN STATED THAT AS SUCH.  PERIOD.

If it's incomprehensible, then don't respond to what you don't understand.

Quote from: Poison on March 15, 2013, 11:53:10 AM

Quote from: boo3 on March 15, 2013, 11:49:47 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 15, 2013, 11:46:45 AM

Quote from: boo3 on March 15, 2013, 11:44:15 AM

Up until the last 1/4 of the season, I think the team performed at or above expectations.  We were tied for third in the BE at one point.   He missed a week and the the team fell off the rails.   It is what it is. 

 I'm not going to start psychoanalysis on coach. I'm not going to second guess his decision to bench Harrison.  Why would I?  Anyone remotely close to the program said it was a long time coming. 

 It was his second year coaching here technically.  I knew it would take 4-5 years.  If you did not, that's on you.

Lavin himself said 3 years. Why is it on us if we believed him?

 Gee Poison, I don't know.  Your smart enough to figure it out I think.  Fordham spelled it out pretty clearly.  I know you don't care, but, like I said, that's on you.

Nothing has been intelligently spelled out. Certainly not by Fordham. Lavin missed one year. Not two. Be as sarcastic as you like, but your math sucks if you think Lavin's 13-14 season should be a rebuilding one.

 I didn't say that.  Last year and this year were rebuilding. Next year, year 4, cry all you want if we don't make tourney. I'll be there with you.

 

Lavin just said 5 years. Next year is year 4. It's a moving target, and while I understand it is more than fair to accept that, we shouldn't be set back 2 years, because Lavin missed 1.

Quote from: we are sju on March 15, 2013, 11:26:34 AM

Quote-Please wit the "fair to criticize." Y'all is off the rails, lookin fo evrytin to harp on to ridic levels. Choz

I'll play along.

You might not like gettin yo ankles shredded, but well....

Quote from: we are sju on March 15, 2013, 11:26:34 AM

Choz

Yes?

Quote from: we are sju on March 15, 2013, 11:26:34 AM

are you really going to tell me there was a good reason to play the walkon's the last two games over scholarship guys?

Failin to read is failin to read. Hit Page 2

Quote from: we are sju on March 15, 2013, 11:26:34 AM

What was the deal with the inbounds defense drill during the TO?

Goin out on a limb here, but Lav was so frustrated that in teh heat of the moment he took Dom and showed him sometin he has shown him time and time again in practice that still has not sunk in wit Dom.

But I'll go wit the it was premeditated that Lav knew the camera was right there, that he could show a national audience that he has a young team and can milk it wit the display.

Cause that make more sense, right?

Keady behind the grassy knoll, btw.

Quote from: we are sju on March 15, 2013, 11:26:34 AM

Have you ever seen that before? Can you imagine Louie doing that to Willie Glass?

I seen coach's call they players "cunts" "mother#$%^ers" and "fierce person s" on the college level in front of friends and family after they do sometin dumb or lazy or both. I seen Lou yell at the top of his lung at Lee Green and within earshot of his moms that he was "the dumbest goddamn player" he'd ever seen at a TO before Ron Rut come to play good cop back in the Lapchick Tourny circa 92. 

So when Lav takes a moment in frustratin to do sometin seemingly constructive, I take no harm away from it.

But we should.

We should.

Cause Lav is diabolical.

Quote from: we are sju on March 15, 2013, 11:26:34 AM

What was the point of the momentum stopping TO in the BET?

Dont know. I think it was a mistake. But I think Jamal playin like he left his game in KC was mo of a factor fo the loss.

THIS IS AN OUTSTANDING POST!! 
most of us aren't off the lavin bandwagon...but some of us are scratching our heads right now over the past few games.  i sense some panic on lavin's part is setting in.

maybe some of the negatives can be turned to positives...like being part of an atlantic 10 type conference where we're not suffering slap-downs by the likes of louisville, syracuse, uconn, pitt, etc any more.  home and home's against syracuse won't affect the conference record for those of you who want to point out we're keeping up with the so-called rivalry.  so called because it's the same kind of rivalry a dog has with a fire hydrant.

i'm still on the lavin bandwagon because...st john's has been the anus of the big east and college basketball for so long, i don't know if anyone else could have turned it around.

Quote from: fordham96 on March 15, 2013, 12:03:31 PM

Quote from: boo3 on March 15, 2013, 11:58:41 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 15, 2013, 11:53:10 AM

Quote from: boo3 on March 15, 2013, 11:49:47 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 15, 2013, 11:46:45 AM

Quote from: boo3 on March 15, 2013, 11:44:15 AM

Up until the last 1/4 of the season, I think the team performed at or above expectations.  We were tied for third in the BE at one point.   He missed a week and the the team fell off the rails.   It is what it is. 

 I'm not going to start psychoanalysis on coach. I'm not going to second guess his decision to bench Harrison.  Why would I?  Anyone remotely close to the program said it was a long time coming. 

 It was his second year coaching here technically.  I knew it would take 4-5 years.  If you did not, that's on you.

Lavin himself said 3 years. Why is it on us if we believed him?

 Gee Poison, I don't know.  Your smart enough to figure it out I think.  Fordham spelled it out pretty clearly.  I know you don't care, but, like I said, that's on you.

Nothing has been intelligently spelled out. Certainly not by Fordham. Lavin missed one year. Not two. Be as sarcastic as you like, but your math sucks if you think Lavin's 13-14 season should be a rebuilding one.

 I didn't say that.  Last year and this year were rebuilding. Next year, year 4, cry all you want if we don't make tourney. I'll be there with you.

There is no explanation for it.  None.  It is incomprehensible how insane his post is.  I specifically said 13-14 needs to be an NCAA year period as well.  AND LAVIN STATED THAT AS SUCH.  PERIOD.

If it's incomprehensible, then don't respond to what you don't understand.

Or you can take your own advice and do us all a favor and just shut up...

I dont harp on things like playin a walkon a few minutes in a big game when he was replacing scholarship players who was playin like dogs.

There are a few major things  that need correctin in my humble opinion that are larger than any in-game decision. Here is one:

STJ is playin a pro-set pick and roll offense that the team is not built to execute even wit continued maturation in seasons to come.

The false-motion is not really what they run. They run a high ball screen, standard NBA pick and roll set concentratin on two players: Jamal or Phil or D'Lo and almost always Karr. The rest of the players clear out wit the third option the corner J. 

Jamal in limited time is the only one who has shown an ability to turn the corner to the basket when he is healthy. D'Lo is too slow and rarely goes left. Phil has the jets but not the confidence to take it. If the guard retains the ball, he is often met in the lane by one or more defenders resultin in a difficult, often off-balance jumpshot that D'Lo can hit from time to time and that Phil can if he remembers he has a floater.

When the guard gives up the ball, it is often to Karr. Problem is Karr doesnt roll.
Never.
Ever.
Look at the tape.

He always stays in position cause he unfortunately has fallen in luv wit his 15-18 foot J. While his J is effective at times and should be a weapon in his arsenal, Karr has relied on it much too often this season.

Point is, this simply does not work with this team.

The halfcourt offense has been abominable and not just because we're dealin with young'uns (and we are. and yes, its a big, big part of the lack of execution). The NBA-style offense simply doesn't work with this group of players. It barely works with the most talented of NCAA teams (see UK last year vs this year). 

Up next: How the complete lack of a low-post scorer (and not shooters) destroys any chance for a decent half-court offense.

There's nothing wrong with that description and we're lucky to have him considering the possible alternatives. Eg we could be discussing the shortcomings of Coach Pecora. By himself Lavin made SJ a relevant BB again. I get that. But I don't see how that should insulate him from criticism, especially when he does things that are at best bizarre and at worst nice personic. What do you think the board's response would have been had Norm played his walk ons in the BET tournament. Okay, bad exmple, Norm would have had to make the BET tournament first. But you get the idea. He would have been crucified and with good reason. Here we get excuses. Lavin had no choice, we've had bad luck since 2009 - which is hilarious, this program has been cursed since 1985 - he had cancer, his father died, and whatever else.

This team this year was as bad as I expected it to be. I don't have a problem with that. But Lavin has been worse than I expected and I had pretty low expectations. I don't see how that's not a fair topic of conversation.fun


I never do this but
Plus 1