2013-2014 Schedule

Quote from: Poison on October 09, 2013, 07:32:49 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on October 09, 2013, 06:04:17 PM

Quote from: Marillac on October 09, 2013, 04:00:28 PM

Quote from: desco80 on October 09, 2013, 02:59:41 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on October 08, 2013, 10:11:49 PM

Quote from: Moose on October 08, 2013, 09:52:07 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 08, 2013, 09:46:51 PM

I don't think Gift can contain any BE center, let alone a guy as strong as Christmas. He might not be the McDonald's AA they expected to be getting, but he plays defense, he rebounds and he holds his position in the paint.

Gift can't do any of those things unless he's playing much weaker competition.  I am lost at how anyone can point to Gift's "performance" against UK as proof that he is capable. That game was an absolute disgrace. We had no business being on the same court with them.

Gift started to score some points and pull down some boards when there was absolutely no doubt that the game was over. So, his offensive rebound and basket off the glass trimmed UK's lead to 65-25. What can you take away from that? In 2006, there was a thread on one of these boards about the awakening of Ricky Torres, because he scored a few baskets at MSG vs Maryland. Why did he score against them? Because they didn't care if he did.

Christmas? Strong?
You mean Coleman, right?

Ah, what's the difference?  Oh, Gift also had 20pts 7 rebs vs Marquette.  He can contribute.

No, he can't.   He contributed when the options were playing Gift or playing a walkon.  And that was what Dunlap was faced with in 2011. 
His numbers vs UK were in a blowout, same for the Marquette game.   In almost every meaningful game he did squat.  I'm not exaggerating.. look it up.   OT game vs Villanova 2pts in 30mins.   Win at WVU? 2pts 28mins   Win against UCLA 2pts.  Etc
His best performance was probably 9pts 5reb in our win at Cinncinnatti.   But the vast majority of his "quality" games came in 15+pt losses like UCONN, Marquette, UK, Pittsburgh, USF

Coleman and Christmas are top 20 recruits.  Granted they haven't shown much yet.   But if another team made the same argument about Ryhsyeed Jordan compared to their upperclass juco transfer who put up pedestrian numbers.. you would laugh at them.   

I don't enjoy criticizing gift.  And I dont want to sound like the debbie downer, but not everybody on our team is 'awesome'.  I'm sorry, but that's just a fact.   And too many of our fans have an inaccurate assessment of his abilities.   

Well stated.  MCN is awesome, but he is the king of the homers and that is not really a bad thing (no offense intended).

All I was saying is that Gift put up far better numbers in one season than Christmas or Coleman.  People are in denial that he can't help against those two if needed.  His "pedestrian" numbers werent that pedestrian.  He certainly had some good games and bad ones, but hes more than a capable backup PF/C. 

That's the thing, he didn't up better numbers than Christmas. Christmas was an efficient rebounder. Gift was not. Gift's stats only seem better bec they padded against cup cakes. He was a compiler. He only scored against a legit D1 team when we were getting housed.



It has been a long time since he's played, and yes, he is intelligent. It will be very interesting to see how much he has improved. I truly hope he has.

Fwiw, their rebounding efficiency was similar.  Gift at 1.8 rebounds per minute vs Christmas 2.2 which is not much different at all.  That was in Christmas' second season though vs Gift's first.  Gift at least scored vs the cupcakes.  Christmas hasn't scored against anybody.

Forgive me for playing Devil's advocate here.  I just haven't seen any sort of compelling case that these guys are better than Gift to this point.  Gift want play a ton this season most likely, but that will be because we have better options in the frontcourt.  Cuse has some other options too which has limited those guys minutes and might even more if that kid Roberson, Keita or others step up.

Ok not a gift hater, he's not great but you can't complain about him being your third center on the roster IMO.

But that rebounding differential you mentioned (don't think they are accurate) equates to 16 less rebounds over 40 minutes. Not that small of a difference.

Christmas is, for the most part, a stiff, but he's not lost on the court. He knows what he's doing, and he knows his limitations, at least what they've been. I'd be content if Gift could simply get to that place as a reserve big. When he gets the ball, it isn't a present for him to keep, or until there are two guys on him.

It all comes down to what he's learned. We know he has some ability. Gift isn't Dele Coker, but he's actually not as strong defensively as Abe Keita (dare I say), who I think is a strong player comparison to Christmas. Efficient defensively, challenged offensively, but is able to get rid of the ball when necessary.

Quote from: MCNPA on October 09, 2013, 11:32:53 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 09, 2013, 07:32:49 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on October 09, 2013, 06:04:17 PM

Quote from: Marillac on October 09, 2013, 04:00:28 PM

Quote from: desco80 on October 09, 2013, 02:59:41 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on October 08, 2013, 10:11:49 PM

Quote from: Moose on October 08, 2013, 09:52:07 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 08, 2013, 09:46:51 PM

I don't think Gift can contain any BE center, let alone a guy as strong as Christmas. He might not be the McDonald's AA they expected to be getting, but he plays defense, he rebounds and he holds his position in the paint.

Gift can't do any of those things unless he's playing much weaker competition.  I am lost at how anyone can point to Gift's "performance" against UK as proof that he is capable. That game was an absolute disgrace. We had no business being on the same court with them.

Gift started to score some points and pull down some boards when there was absolutely no doubt that the game was over. So, his offensive rebound and basket off the glass trimmed UK's lead to 65-25. What can you take away from that? In 2006, there was a thread on one of these boards about the awakening of Ricky Torres, because he scored a few baskets at MSG vs Maryland. Why did he score against them? Because they didn't care if he did.

Christmas? Strong?
You mean Coleman, right?

Ah, what's the difference?  Oh, Gift also had 20pts 7 rebs vs Marquette.  He can contribute.

No, he can't.   He contributed when the options were playing Gift or playing a walkon.  And that was what Dunlap was faced with in 2011. 
His numbers vs UK were in a blowout, same for the Marquette game.   In almost every meaningful game he did squat.  I'm not exaggerating.. look it up.   OT game vs Villanova 2pts in 30mins.   Win at WVU? 2pts 28mins   Win against UCLA 2pts.  Etc
His best performance was probably 9pts 5reb in our win at Cinncinnatti.   But the vast majority of his "quality" games came in 15+pt losses like UCONN, Marquette, UK, Pittsburgh, USF

Coleman and Christmas are top 20 recruits.  Granted they haven't shown much yet.   But if another team made the same argument about Ryhsyeed Jordan compared to their upperclass juco transfer who put up pedestrian numbers.. you would laugh at them.   

I don't enjoy criticizing gift.  And I dont want to sound like the debbie downer, but not everybody on our team is 'awesome'.  I'm sorry, but that's just a fact.   And too many of our fans have an inaccurate assessment of his abilities.   

Well stated.  MCN is awesome, but he is the king of the homers and that is not really a bad thing (no offense intended).

All I was saying is that Gift put up far better numbers in one season than Christmas or Coleman.  People are in denial that he can't help against those two if needed.  His "pedestrian" numbers werent that pedestrian.  He certainly had some good games and bad ones, but hes more than a capable backup PF/C. 

That's the thing, he didn't up better numbers than Christmas. Christmas was an efficient rebounder. Gift was not. Gift's stats only seem better bec they padded against cup cakes. He was a compiler. He only scored against a legit D1 team when we were getting housed.



It has been a long time since he's played, and yes, he is intelligent. It will be very interesting to see how much he has improved. I truly hope he has.

Fwiw, their rebounding efficiency was similar.  Gift at 1.8 rebounds per minute vs Christmas 2.2 which is not much different at all.  That was in Christmas' second season though vs Gift's first.  Gift at least scored vs the cupcakes.  Christmas hasn't scored against anybody.

Forgive me for playing Devil's advocate here.  I just haven't seen any sort of compelling case that these guys are better than Gift to this point.  Gift want play a ton this season most likely, but that will be because we have better options in the frontcourt.  Cuse has some other options too which has limited those guys minutes and might even more if that kid Roberson, Keita or others step up.

Ok not a gift hater, he's not great but you can't complain about him being your third center on the roster IMO.

But that rebounding differential you mentioned (don't think they are accurate) equates to 16 less rebounds over 40 minutes. Not that small of a difference.

If Christmas had played the same amount of minutes, he'd average 8.2 to Gift's 5.6.  Better, but not ground breaking assuming consistent production. 

Breaking News -

Though not listed originally on the schedule.  The St. John's REDMEN will be playing Yeshiva on Thanksgiving.  As Thanksgiving and Hanukkah are on the same day for the last time for 70,000 years the schools are adding it to their schedule.

At a special ceremony during halftime the Indian will be lighting the menorah with Coach Lavin saying the prayer of lights.

Don't quit your day job. Unless of course you work days as a stand-up comic. Then by all means quit.

Man, that hurts....

I think dele Coker was better then gift. I wasn't a big fan of Coker. At least he was big. Neither can catch a basketball though

“@QSJUHoops: Is St. John's ready for Wisconsin? St. John's thinks so. #sjubb @B5Q http://sbn.to/1bjuyRI”

Quote from: Marillac on October 09, 2013, 04:00:28 PM

Quote from: desco80 on October 09, 2013, 02:59:41 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on October 08, 2013, 10:11:49 PM

Quote from: Moose on October 08, 2013, 09:52:07 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 08, 2013, 09:46:51 PM

I don't think Gift can contain any BE center, let alone a guy as strong as Christmas. He might not be the McDonald's AA they expected to be getting, but he plays defense, he rebounds and he holds his position in the paint.

Gift can't do any of those things unless he's playing much weaker competition.  I am lost at how anyone can point to Gift's "performance" against UK as proof that he is capable. That game was an absolute disgrace. We had no business being on the same court with them.

Gift started to score some points and pull down some boards when there was absolutely no doubt that the game was over. So, his offensive rebound and basket off the glass trimmed UK's lead to 65-25. What can you take away from that? In 2006, there was a thread on one of these boards about the awakening of Ricky Torres, because he scored a few baskets at MSG vs Maryland. Why did he score against them? Because they didn't care if he did.

Christmas? Strong?
You mean Coleman, right?

Ah, what's the difference?  Oh, Gift also had 20pts 7 rebs vs Marquette.  He can contribute.

No, he can't.   He contributed when the options were playing Gift or playing a walkon.  And that was what Dunlap was faced with in 2011. 
His numbers vs UK were in a blowout, same for the Marquette game.   In almost every meaningful game he did squat.  I'm not exaggerating.. look it up.   OT game vs Villanova 2pts in 30mins.   Win at WVU? 2pts 28mins   Win against UCLA 2pts.  Etc
His best performance was probably 9pts 5reb in our win at Cinncinnatti.   But the vast majority of his "quality" games came in 15+pt losses like UCONN, Marquette, UK, Pittsburgh, USF

Coleman and Christmas are top 20 recruits.  Granted they haven't shown much yet.   But if another team made the same argument about Ryhsyeed Jordan compared to their upperclass juco transfer who put up pedestrian numbers.. you would laugh at them.   

I don't enjoy criticizing gift.  And I dont want to sound like the debbie downer, but not everybody on our team is 'awesome'.  I'm sorry, but that's just a fact.   And too many of our fans have an inaccurate assessment of his abilities.   

Well stated.  MCN is awesome, but he is the king of the homers and that is not really a bad thing (no offense intended).

All I was saying is that Gift put up far better numbers in one season than Christmas or Coleman.  People are in denial that he can't help against those two if needed.  His "pedestrian" numbers werent that pedestrian.  He certainly had some good games and bad ones, but hes more than a capable backup PF/C. 

This is true.  There is a place for Gift on this team, if for no other reason than the fact that our other center is a pretty poor foul shooter.   So down the stretch he can sub for Obekpa.   I like gift and i want him to do well, I just think his role will be very limited.   But he will have a role, you're right about that. 

I think dele Coker was better then gift. I wasn't a big fan of Coker. At least he was big. Neither can catch a basketball though

Now this is ridiculous. What did Coker ever do to make you believe that?

Not a fan of Coker. Just think gift is worse.

Not a fan of Coker. Just think gift is worse.

Then why did Coker average the little he did under Lavin and Gift average what he did?

Quote from: TONYD3 on October 11, 2013, 08:08:24 PM

Not a fan of Coker. Just think gift is worse.

Then why did Coker average the little he did under Lavin and Gift average what he did?

Not to mention we lacked size that year. It's not like Coker wasn't playing because of too much competition, he just wasn't good enough.

Ridiculous.  Coker never did anything.  Double G had some huge early season efforts at Alumni.

No comparison.

Gift is much better at offense than Coker. They are both lousy defenders.

Coker sucked,  We need someone to play defense down low. Don't think gift can do it

Coker sucked,  We need someone to play defense down low. Don't think gift can do it

He certainly didn't know how to do it in his first season. Best case scenario, his biggest problem was experience playing against larger guys. Against the low mid majors, he was an all league player. The comparisons to Coker should end there. Coker couldn't keep up with anyone, at any level.

The one season that Gift played here is a throw away.  Too much was placed on the shallowest team in league history during one of deepest leagues in NCAA history.   

Lets see what he does in his ten to fifteen minutes off the bench on team deep in experienced talent.  My bet is that he impresses people and helps this team win more games than most experts predict.

The one season that Gift played here is a throw away.  Too much was placed on the shallowest team in league history during one of deepest leagues in NCAA history.   

Lets see what he does in his ten to fifteen minutes off the bench on team deep in experienced talent.  My bet is that he impresses people and helps this team win more games than most experts predict.

He's gonna be a lot fresher than two years ago.  If he accepts that he's getting around 10 minutes a game, and comes in and plays with intensity he could be a factor this year. 

Quote from: Tiznow on October 12, 2013, 09:28:30 AM

The one season that Gift played here is a throw away.  Too much was placed on the shallowest team in league history during one of deepest leagues in NCAA history.   

Lets see what he does in his ten to fifteen minutes off the bench on team deep in experienced talent.  My bet is that he impresses people and helps this team win more games than most experts predict.

He's gonna be a lot fresher than two years ago.  If he accepts that he's getting around 10 minutes a game, and comes in and plays with intensity he could be a factor this year. 

Either he's learned how to play, or he hasn't. We'll know pretty soon.