Next year's starting backcourt

Almost every single one of Dom's jumpers was taken with his feet planted and nobody around to guard him.  Greene has to create at least half of his shot opportunities off the bounce.

There's not a player on the team who couldn't dribble around pointlessly at the top of the key and hoist up a crappy shot and shoot 30 percent. No. Body. Certainly Pointer could do it. He takes shots in the flow of the offense and when there's "nobody around to guard him." You say that like it's a bad thing. At least he makes them. You don't get points for missing with a degree of difficulty. Greene isn't good at creating shots. He creates them, they're just bad ones. If he was good at it they'd be "taken with his feet planted and nobody around to guard him."

Quote from: Marillac on April 10, 2013, 03:46:27 PM

Almost every single one of Dom's jumpers was taken with his feet planted and nobody around to guard him.  Greene has to create at least half of his shot opportunities off the bounce.

There's not a player on the team who couldn't dribble around pointlessly at the top of the key and hoist up a crappy shot and shoot 30 percent. No. Body. Certainly Pointer could do it. He takes shots in the flow of the offense and when there's "nobody around to guard him." You say that like it's a bad thing. At least he makes them. You don't get points for missing with a degree of difficulty. Greene isn't good at creating shots. He creates them, they're just bad ones. If he was good at it they'd be "taken with his feet planted and nobody around to guard him."

It's not a bad thing...it's a great thing for Dom.  Players need to be more aware of their weaknesses than their strengths IMO.  Phil didn't have that luxury...no doubt that kid was being forced to do more than he should have (out of necessity) by the bench.  I don't think just anyone could do what Phil did.  If Dom dribbled that much, he wold have 2-3x the turnovers of Greene. 

I am a big Pointer fan, I just don't want him with too big of a responsiblity it the half court.  For whatever reason, he is a different player in transition.  He is aggressive, he makes great decisions, and his physical talent can't be matched there. 

What exactly did he do that makes you think he's a liability in the half court?   He doesn't dominate the ball or force shots, nor is he a turnover machine.  And, he's as good a passer as we have.   Which isn't saying much, but is still worth something when being compared to his teammates to determine playing time.

If anything the knock on Pointer is that he disappeared in some games, deferred too much, and became invisible.   But generally speaking Pointer gets other people involved and only takes high percentage shots.   That's pretty much what I want from my 3rd option on offense.

Greene on the other hand is a guard who can't shoot, pass, or drive very well.   It's really not a stretch to say anyone on the team could fill that role. 

What exactly did he do that makes you think he's a liability in the half court?   He doesn't dominate the ball or force shots, nor is he a turnover machine.  And, he's as good a passer as we have.   Which isn't saying much, but is still worth something when being compared to his teammates to determine playing time.

If anything the knock on Pointer is that he disappeared in some games, deferred too much, and became invisible.   But generally speaking Pointer gets other people involved and only takes high percentage shots.   That's pretty much what I want from my 3rd option on offense.

Greene on the other hand is a guard who can't shoot, pass, or drive very well.   It's really not a stretch to say anyone on the team could fill that role. 

I think Greene is at his best when he drives. He fell in love his jumper, and it really hurt his progress as a player. If he comes off the bench, and goes to the rim 2/3 times, he'll be a much better player.

Quote from: desco80 on April 10, 2013, 05:34:50 PM

What exactly did he do that makes you think he's a liability in the half court?   He doesn't dominate the ball or force shots, nor is he a turnover machine.  And, he's as good a passer as we have.   Which isn't saying much, but is still worth something when being compared to his teammates to determine playing time.

If anything the knock on Pointer is that he disappeared in some games, deferred too much, and became invisible.   But generally speaking Pointer gets other people involved and only takes high percentage shots.   That's pretty much what I want from my 3rd option on offense.

Greene on the other hand is a guard who can't shoot, pass, or drive very well.   It's really not a stretch to say anyone on the team could fill that role. 

I think Greene is at his best when he drives. He fell in love his jumper, and it really hurt his progress as a player. If he comes off the bench, and goes to the rim 2/3 times, he'll be a much better player.

Very true.   He's at his best when he gets in the lane.   I'd like to see him take it to the rim a little more, we didn't even know he could dunk until the NIT.   Turns out PG has hops, he should use them.   

Greene on the other hand is a guard who can't shoot, pass, or drive very well.

Once 3'lo was punished, the PG4 was our best player in numerous games, right?  That is quite an accomplishment for the athlete you describe.

Quote from: desco80 on April 10, 2013, 05:34:50 PM

Greene on the other hand is a guard who can't shoot, pass, or drive very well.

Once 3'lo was punished, the PG4 was our best player in numerous games, right?  That is quite an accomplishment for the athlete you describe.

A lot of "ifs", but there's a chance for the next 2 years our backcourt is Rysheed Jordan and D'Angelo Harrison, backed by Jamal Branch, Phil Greene and Felix Balamou.   That has the potential to be one of the 3 or 4 best  and deepest backcourts in college hoops (especially with Sir Marco and Max all capable of manning the 2G spot if needed - and for 1 year, Marco as well).

Quote from: desco80 on April 10, 2013, 05:34:50 PM

Greene on the other hand is a guard who can't shoot, pass, or drive very well.

Once 3'lo was punished, the PG4 was our best player in numerous games, right?  That is quite an accomplishment for the athlete you describe.

He was definitely better from the Marquette game on Carmine.  I'm not denying that.
But prior to that game he was every bit as bad as I described.   Shooting guards at the D1 level can't go 4-15, and point guards shouldn't be playing 40 mins without an assist.   Phil did these things.   Which makes me ask, if he can't shoot well, and isn't a passer; what is the value in playing him? 

Like almost all of our fans, I want to see Phil play well.   And if he plays like he did against Marquette or St Joes, then I'm all in favor of letting him play big minutes next year.
But we can't afford to wait 24 games to see if it's going to happen.   Phil started out well, and finished the season playing well.  But from about Dec 1st thru the end of February he was brutal.   That's just the truth.

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on April 12, 2013, 01:27:43 PM

Quote from: desco80 on April 10, 2013, 05:34:50 PM

Greene on the other hand is a guard who can't shoot, pass, or drive very well.

Once 3'lo was punished, the PG4 was our best player in numerous games, right?  That is quite an accomplishment for the athlete you describe.

He was definitely better from the Marquette game on Carmine.  I'm not denying that.
But prior to that game he was every bit as bad as I described.   Shooting guards at the D1 level can't go 4-15, and point guards shouldn't be playing 40 mins without an assist.   Phil did these things.   Which makes me ask, if he can't shoot well, and isn't a passer; what is the value in playing him? 

Like almost all of our fans, I want to see Phil play well.   And if he plays like he did against Marquette or St Joes, then I'm all in favor of letting him play big minutes next year.
But we can't afford to wait 24 games to see if it's going to happen.   Phil started out well, and finished the season playing well.  But from about Dec 1st thru the end of February he was brutal.   That's just the truth.

I honestly feel that the square is a good passer, good speed, good motor, good leaper, rock solid handle, outstanding assist/to ratio, good teamate/intangibles and a fine defender. 

Shooting is the only defeciancy in his game I'll concede.

Quote from: desco80 on April 12, 2013, 03:55:58 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on April 12, 2013, 01:27:43 PM

Quote from: desco80 on April 10, 2013, 05:34:50 PM

Greene on the other hand is a guard who can't shoot, pass, or drive very well.

Once 3'lo was punished, the PG4 was our best player in numerous games, right?  That is quite an accomplishment for the athlete you describe.

He was definitely better from the Marquette game on Carmine.  I'm not denying that.
But prior to that game he was every bit as bad as I described.   Shooting guards at the D1 level can't go 4-15, and point guards shouldn't be playing 40 mins without an assist.   Phil did these things.   Which makes me ask, if he can't shoot well, and isn't a passer; what is the value in playing him? 

Like almost all of our fans, I want to see Phil play well.   And if he plays like he did against Marquette or St Joes, then I'm all in favor of letting him play big minutes next year.
But we can't afford to wait 24 games to see if it's going to happen.   Phil started out well, and finished the season playing well.  But from about Dec 1st thru the end of February he was brutal.   That's just the truth.

I honestly feel that the square is a good passer, good speed, good motor, good leaper, rock solid handle, outstanding assist/to ratio, good teamate/intangibles and a fine defender. 

Shooting is the only defeciancy in his game I'll concede.

If we're being honest and not exaggerating to make our points, I think most of Phil's detractors would agree with you that he is pretty fast/quick, has a decent handle, and doesn't turn the ball over very often. 
If I made it seem like he doesn't bring anything to the table, that's obviously not true.  I think what the rest of us are looking for is for him to 1) shoot a little less from outside, and 2) and make create good looks for his teammates.   It's shooting and running the offense that gets fans frustrated.

I think Greene coming off the bench could be instant offense if he is used properly. I have a feeling no matter who comes off the bench first they could be the big east 6th man of the year.

My backcourt are the guys who bust their asses in the spring/summer months and show up ready to contribute in the fall

Whether that be Harrison, Greene, Branch, Balamou, Bourgault or Jordan, I could care less