Does St Johns finish......?

I think for the talent that this team has, the high-end of reasonable expectations should be #3ish seed in the ncaa tournament.... low-end of reasonable expectations would be a #7ish ncaa seed in the tournament.

I think for the talent that this team has, the high-end of reasonable expectations should be #3ish seed in the ncaa tournament.... low-end of reasonable expectations would be a #7ish ncaa seed in the tournament.

That certainly seems fair. The only thing I ask is that the team doesn't set its goals at simply making it.

On paper I think we have the talent to be top 3 in the new Big East, and make a run in the tournament.

But during what game last year did you say to yourself "this team is one or two players away from being a sweet 16 / elite 8 -type team" ?  The St Joes game maybe?    For me it was the Marquette game.   But if I have reservations, that would be why.  We had talent on the floor no question about that, but if I'm being honest, it never really felt like they were on the cusp of being very very good.   

On paper I think we have the talent to be top 3 in the new Big East, and make a run in the tournament.

But during what game last year did you say to yourself "this team is one or two players away from being a sweet 16 / elite 8 -type team" ?  The St Joes game maybe?    For me it was the Marquette game.   But if I have reservations, that would be why.  We had talent on the floor no question about that, but if I'm being honest, it never really felt like they were on the cusp of being very very good.   

I really didn't think we played that well against St. Joes we just played well enough to win. There were some others like the South Carolina game where we looked real good, or the first ND game and the UCONN game where we played well for 30 minutes.

For me it was the Marquette game you mentioned. That was an elite 8 team we took to OT and we add a 18 ppg SG, a top 20 highschool PG, two jucu all American forwards, one of which may be our most skilled player, AND we were without our starting SF in pointer. That game to me shows the most promise for next year. But your right Desco, who knows? The talent may not look good as a collective group next year.

On paper I think we have the talent to be top 3 in the new Big East, and make a run in the tournament.

But during what game last year did you say to yourself "this team is one or two players away from being a sweet 16 / elite 8 -type team" ?  The St Joes game maybe?    For me it was the Marquette game.   But if I have reservations, that would be why.  We had talent on the floor no question about that, but if I'm being honest, it never really felt like they were on the cusp of being very very good.

We had a healthy Branch for only a few games.  He sat out til Big East play, started playing our best ball with him, then tweaked his knee.  Harrison was playing poorly and acting poorly for a good while before he was suspended.  It was readily apparent.  For first half of the season, he was killing it though, even thou he was forcing it a bit.  I addition, we wer breaking in a brand new center and forward.  We got caught without Sanchez and Gift up front which hurt us a ton inside and on the glass.

All in all, if Harrison wasn't suspended, we were an NCAA bubble team at worst.  This year we return everybody, add a top 20 player and touted JC forward in Sanchez as well as a proven post man in Gift.  Add a shooter in Hooper and also four guys will be more experienced.  I think we could see a significantly better team this year, especially if Harrison buys in. 

They are rating Uconn in the top 16 with no real big additions, an we beat them last year without Branch and Harrison sitting much of the game.  I don't see why with all of our additions, and now some upperclassmen experience, why we shouldn't be a bunch better.

If the team listens to coach Steve we 80% home. I 'm hoping Phil can play well enough to allow Jordan to break in at a reasonable pace. Most important is C.O. becoming a more complete player. A little help from the bench, and Steve has us cruising. Steve getting it done in year 4 is sure to end the dumb dumb talk, and that will be very pleasant. Of course ya gatta get it done on the court, and I think they will.

Quote from: desco80 on May 09, 2013, 01:04:41 AM

On paper I think we have the talent to be top 3 in the new Big East, and make a run in the tournament.

But during what game last year did you say to yourself "this team is one or two players away from being a sweet 16 / elite 8 -type team" ?  The St Joes game maybe?    For me it was the Marquette game.   But if I have reservations, that would be why.  We had talent on the floor no question about that, but if I'm being honest, it never really felt like they were on the cusp of being very very good.

We had a healthy Branch for only a few games.  He sat out til Big East play, started playing our best ball with him, then tweaked his knee.  Harrison was playing poorly and acting poorly for a good while before he was suspended.  It was readily apparent.  For first half of the season, he was killing it though, even thou he was forcing it a bit.  I addition, we wer breaking in a brand new center and forward.  We got caught without Sanchez and Gift up front which hurt us a ton inside and on the glass.

All in all, if Harrison wasn't suspended, we were an NCAA bubble team at worst.  This year we return everybody, add a top 20 player and touted JC forward in Sanchez as well as a proven post man in Gift.  Add a shooter in Hooper and also four guys will be more experienced.  I think we could see a significantly better team this year, especially if Harrison buys in. 

They are rating Uconn in the top 16 with no real big additions, an we beat them last year without Branch and Harrison sitting much of the game.  I don't see why with all of our additions, and now some upperclassmen experience, why we shouldn't be a bunch better.

there's no reason barring injury we can't win the conference and the tournament at MSG and going, at least, to the elite 8.  we have the horses plus superior coaching.

1. Marquette
2. Georgetown
3. St Johns
4. Villanova
Than Creighton and Butler

Quote from: MCNPA on May 09, 2013, 04:15:45 AM

Quote from: desco80 on May 09, 2013, 01:04:41 AM

On paper I think we have the talent to be top 3 in the new Big East, and make a run in the tournament.

But during what game last year did you say to yourself "this team is one or two players away from being a sweet 16 / elite 8 -type team" ?  The St Joes game maybe?    For me it was the Marquette game.   But if I have reservations, that would be why.  We had talent on the floor no question about that, but if I'm being honest, it never really felt like they were on the cusp of being very very good.

We had a healthy Branch for only a few games.  He sat out til Big East play, started playing our best ball with him, then tweaked his knee.  Harrison was playing poorly and acting poorly for a good while before he was suspended.  It was readily apparent.  For first half of the season, he was killing it though, even thou he was forcing it a bit.  I addition, we wer breaking in a brand new center and forward.  We got caught without Sanchez and Gift up front which hurt us a ton inside and on the glass.

All in all, if Harrison wasn't suspended, we were an NCAA bubble team at worst.  This year we return everybody, add a top 20 player and touted JC forward in Sanchez as well as a proven post man in Gift.  Add a shooter in Hooper and also four guys will be more experienced.  I think we could see a significantly better team this year, especially if Harrison buys in. 

They are rating Uconn in the top 16 with no real big additions, an we beat them last year without Branch and Harrison sitting much of the game.  I don't see why with all of our additions, and now some upperclassmen experience, why we shouldn't be a bunch better.

there's no reason barring injury we can't win the conference and the tournament at MSG and going, at least, to the elite 8.  we have the horses plus superior coaching.

No reason barring injury and eligibility.

First in the BE. 9th in the country.  Will end up a 3 seed.  Stars are aligned.

Butler and Creighton will both finish top 5 though.  They may have played in the A10/MVC but they were the class of their conferences with great coaches to boot.  It's not like we are talking the MAAC here.

Quote from: newsman13 on May 09, 2013, 07:43:38 AM

Quote from: MCNPA on May 09, 2013, 04:15:45 AM

Quote from: desco80 on May 09, 2013, 01:04:41 AM

On paper I think we have the talent to be top 3 in the new Big East, and make a run in the tournament.

But during what game last year did you say to yourself "this team is one or two players away from being a sweet 16 / elite 8 -type team" ?  The St Joes game maybe?    For me it was the Marquette game.   But if I have reservations, that would be why.  We had talent on the floor no question about that, but if I'm being honest, it never really felt like they were on the cusp of being very very good.

We had a healthy Branch for only a few games.  He sat out til Big East play, started playing our best ball with him, then tweaked his knee.  Harrison was playing poorly and acting poorly for a good while before he was suspended.  It was readily apparent.  For first half of the season, he was killing it though, even thou he was forcing it a bit.  I addition, we wer breaking in a brand new center and forward.  We got caught without Sanchez and Gift up front which hurt us a ton inside and on the glass.

All in all, if Harrison wasn't suspended, we were an NCAA bubble team at worst.  This year we return everybody, add a top 20 player and touted JC forward in Sanchez as well as a proven post man in Gift.  Add a shooter in Hooper and also four guys will be more experienced.  I think we could see a significantly better team this year, especially if Harrison buys in. 

They are rating Uconn in the top 16 with no real big additions, an we beat them last year without Branch and Harrison sitting much of the game.  I don't see why with all of our additions, and now some upperclassmen experience, why we shouldn't be a bunch better.

there's no reason barring injury we can't win the conference and the tournament at MSG and going, at least, to the elite 8.  we have the horses plus superior coaching.

No reason barring injury and eligibility.

We have one recruit, Jordan who is eligible.  He starts summer classes at SJU very soon.  No eligibility issues this year I don't think.

Quote from: Poison on May 09, 2013, 08:04:55 AM

Quote from: newsman13 on May 09, 2013, 07:43:38 AM

Quote from: MCNPA on May 09, 2013, 04:15:45 AM

Quote from: desco80 on May 09, 2013, 01:04:41 AM

On paper I think we have the talent to be top 3 in the new Big East, and make a run in the tournament.

But during what game last year did you say to yourself "this team is one or two players away from being a sweet 16 / elite 8 -type team" ?  The St Joes game maybe?    For me it was the Marquette game.   But if I have reservations, that would be why.  We had talent on the floor no question about that, but if I'm being honest, it never really felt like they were on the cusp of being very very good.

We had a healthy Branch for only a few games.  He sat out til Big East play, started playing our best ball with him, then tweaked his knee.  Harrison was playing poorly and acting poorly for a good while before he was suspended.  It was readily apparent.  For first half of the season, he was killing it though, even thou he was forcing it a bit.  I addition, we wer breaking in a brand new center and forward.  We got caught without Sanchez and Gift up front which hurt us a ton inside and on the glass.

All in all, if Harrison wasn't suspended, we were an NCAA bubble team at worst.  This year we return everybody, add a top 20 player and touted JC forward in Sanchez as well as a proven post man in Gift.  Add a shooter in Hooper and also four guys will be more experienced.  I think we could see a significantly better team this year, especially if Harrison buys in. 

They are rating Uconn in the top 16 with no real big additions, an we beat them last year without Branch and Harrison sitting much of the game.  I don't see why with all of our additions, and now some upperclassmen experience, why we shouldn't be a bunch better.

there's no reason barring injury we can't win the conference and the tournament at MSG and going, at least, to the elite 8.  we have the horses plus superior coaching.

No reason barring injury and eligibility.

We have one recruit, Jordan who is eligible.  He starts summer classes at SJU very soon.  No eligibility issues this year I don't think.

There's a 2 year streak that we need to break regarding eligibility. We do that, we're in great shape.

First in the BE. 9th in the country.  Will end up a 3 seed.  Stars are aligned.

Butler and Creighton will both finish top 5 though.  They may have played in the A10/MVC but they were the class of their conferences with great coaches to boot.  It's not like we are talking the MAAC here.

Well Butler was not the class of the A-10 St. Louis was and again I am not suggesting they aren't solid teams, they are,  but they are not Louisville or Syracuse or at least what Pitt has been in years past.  Those teams have gone 14-4, 15-3 and 16-2 in the BE in recent years.  No way the best Butler or Creighton teams come close to doing that if they were in the same 16 team conference.  No way.

Remember this the two teams most project to finish in the bottom of the new conference are SHU and DePaul.  Both of those teams signed consensus top 100 guards in Sina and Billy Garrett.  How many teams at the bottom of the the MVC or A-10 sign that type of talent?  Heck how many of the best teams in those conferences consistently sign top 100 players?  It is a totally different thing is my point.

Utah football is a great example.  Utah had some terrific seasons in the Mountain West under coaches Urban Meyer and Kyle Whittingham.  Consistently winning 10 games and competing for MWC titels.  In fact in two different seasons they went 13-0 and won BCS bowl games (2004 and 2008).  They have beaten good teams in those seasons including BCS teams.

Last two years they have played in the PAC 12 and they have gone in conference 4-5 and 3-6 for a combined 7-11.  Difference?  Well they are recruiting essentially the same caliber talent.  But now the consistency of the schedule is MUCH tougher.

As Whittingham said recently there are NO nights off in the PAC 12 relative to what they had in the Mountain West.  Even the lower teams in the PAC 12 have significantly better players then the better teams in the MWC.  He added they need to recruit even a higher level of athlete now and stress how important it is to play at a high level every week.

The Creighton's of the world are going to find out that even the DePaul's and SHU's have players like Fu Edwin and Jaren Sina and Billy Garrett and Cleveland Melvin.

Teams like Butler and Creighton have 4 year players which is a huge advantage imo

Quote from: Tha Kid on May 09, 2013, 08:59:08 AM

First in the BE. 9th in the country.  Will end up a 3 seed.  Stars are aligned.

Butler and Creighton will both finish top 5 though.  They may have played in the A10/MVC but they were the class of their conferences with great coaches to boot.  It's not like we are talking the MAAC here.

Well Butler was not the class of the A-10 St. Louis was and again I am not suggesting they aren't solid teams, they are,  but they are not Louisville or Syracuse or at least what Pitt has been in years past.  Those teams have gone 14-4, 15-3 and 16-2 in the BE in recent years.  No way the best Butler or Creighton teams come close to doing that if they were in the same 16 team conference.  No way.

Remember this the two teams most project to finish in the bottom of the new conference are SHU and DePaul.  Both of those teams signed consensus top 100 guards in Sina and Billy Garrett.  How many teams at the bottom of the the MVC or A-10 sign that type of talent?  Heck how many of the best teams in those conferences consistently sign top 100 players?  It is a totally different thing is my point.

Utah football is a great example.  Utah had some terrific seasons in the Mountain West under coaches Urban Meyer and Kyle Whittingham.  Consistently winning 10 games and competing for MWC titels.  In fact in two different seasons they went 13-0 and won BCS bowl games (2004 and 2008).  They have beaten good teams in those seasons including BCS teams.

Last two years they have played in the PAC 12 and they have gone in conference 4-5 and 3-6 for a combined 7-11.  Difference?  Well they are recruiting essentially the same caliber talent.  But now the consistency of the schedule is MUCH tougher.

As Whittingham said recently there are NO nights off in the PAC 12 relative to what they had in the Mountain West.  Even the lower teams in the PAC 12 have significantly better players then the better teams in the MWC.  He added they need to recruit even a higher level of athlete now and stress how important it is to play at a high level every week.

The Creighton's of the world are going to find out that even the DePaul's and SHU's have players like Fu Edwin and Jaren Sina and Billy Garrett and Cleveland Melvin.

Fordham, you are absolutely right that the worst teams in the new Big East are better than the cupcakes Creighton and Butler had on their schedules before.  BUT, let's not act like they are entering the behemoth of a conference that had Cuse, LVille, Pitt, UConn, ND, Cincy, etc. either.  They are entering a conference with GTown, Nova, SJU, PC, DePaul, Marquette, Xavier, and SHU.  Not cupcakes by any means, but not dominant forces either.  Butler and Creighton were arguably the 3rd and 4th best teams of this 10 last season.  It will be interesting to see how they fare --- I have no idea how Butler is supposed to be, but Creighton returning an All-American should contend with the big boys.

I hate to temper the ever rare ,for this board, wontan positivity of this thread; but aren't we forgetting the curse?

The curse of being in queens? Mets and St John's?

This is a legitimate Elite-8 caliber roster.

Anything less than top 20 ranking & Sweet-16 in tourney is a failure.

 I'm expecting the same thing. However, I don't think winning the new BE regular season or conference tourney, being a top 25 team, and then, say, losing in the second round of the tourney, would be a failure.  Not necessarily.

 Too much a blanket statement for me. Plus, there a ton of variables between now and then..

I hate to temper the ever rare ,for this board, wontan positivity of this thread; but aren't we forgetting the curse?

If anything the curse is optimism. This is a team that couldn't make it past the second round of the NIT and now we should make the elite 8? Not really understanding the reasoning here. Granted we didn't have Harrison in the NIT, but we did have him for San Francisco and UNC-Asheville. Are we now suppose to be a top ten team because we added a freshman PG and JC transfer both of whom have not played one minute of D1 ball? Gift and Hooper? They will have minimal minutes next season.

Maybe we could make a deep run, but I'm not expecting it. Nothing I have seen so far would suggest I should be expecting it out of this team. We need to play some games first. I think if we made it to the second weekend then its a successfull season, but if we lose in the second round of the NCAA I wouldn't call it a disaster. A disaster would be not making the tournament, disappointing if we make it and don't win a game.     

Quote from: uwsfan on May 08, 2013, 07:34:00 PM

This is a legitimate Elite-8 caliber roster.

Anything less than top 20 ranking & Sweet-16 in tourney is a failure.

 I'm expecting the same thing. However, I don't think winning the new BE regular season or conference tourney, being a top 25 team, and then, say, losing in the second round of the tourney, would be a failure.  Not necessarily.

 Too much a blanket statement for me. Plus, there a ton of variables between now and then..

I agree Boo, I don't think the situation you described is a failure at all.   I'm slightly less optimistic about our ability to score, so my expectations are more along those lines - top 25 team and maybe a second round loss.  Less than that though would indeed be disappointing, anything more would be gravy.