Does St Johns finish......?

People forget how dominant G'Town was late in the season. Yeah they got upset but it happens to everyone. I look at the big picture not just how they got upset in the tourney. Marquette was also as good as any team. Villanova has the Big East ROY if Sampson never won it and he will only get better. Nova just knows what they are doing they are just very well run and know how to get their pieces big name or not. SJ talent wise is as talented as maybe all but 10 teams in the country if that. Seton Hall has a much better team than people realize.

Their injured key players return and now Siva a top 100 kid is on his way. Providence was just as loaded as us before we got Jordan. Now we have slightly more but they have a ton of studs there. Butler is a wildcard as is Xavier. Creighton should be good not great. It's like Memphis a few years back just tearing apart the C-USA. They won't be dominant anymore they will just be good and much more beatable in a real conference. After McDermott, Gibbs, etc. leave they may finish last for a few yrs. Believe it or not, there are people on this forum that think the MVC is the ACC. IMO the MVC was a watered down A-10 and top heavy with 2 real national competitors. If Creighton does great though I won't mind because it helps our league. I just hope they can succeed without getting in our way.

People forget how dominant G'Town was late in the season. Yeah they got upset but it happens to everyone. I look at the big picture not just how they got upset in the tourney. Marquette was also as good as any team. Villanova has the Big East ROY if Sampson never won it and he will only get better. Nova just knows what they are doing they are just very well run and know how to get their pieces big name or not. SJ talent wise is as talented as maybe all but 10 teams in the country if that. Seton Hall has a much better team than people realize.

Their injured key players return and now Siva a top 100 kid is on his way. Providence was just as loaded as us before we got Jordan. Now we have slightly more but they have a ton of studs there. Butler is a wildcard as is Xavier. Creighton should be good not great. It's like Memphis a few years back just tearing apart the C-USA. They won't be dominant anymore they will just be good and much more beatable in a real conference. After McDermott, Gibbs, etc. leave they may finish last for a few yrs. Believe it or not, there are people on this forum that think the MVC is the ACC. IMO the MVC was a watered down A-10 and top heavy with 2 real national competitors. If Creighton does great though I won't mind because it helps our league. I just hope they can succeed without getting in our way.

You think Seton Hall will good? Why is that?

Didn't say SH would be good I said they would be better than expected. They still have Mobley, Oliver, Edwin, and signed Sina. They are the kind of team that may not have the prettiest record but better than people imagine and will certainly take advantage of teams who take them lightly. Remember they gave us trouble last year even without their key players. It's teams like these that will be fun to watch Creighton play. Creighton will be the better team, but do they realize that even the bottom few teams in our conference are as good as the 3rd MVC team?

Didn't say SH would be good I said they would be better than expected. They still have Mobley, Oliver, Edwin, and signed Sina. They are the kind of team that may not have the prettiest record but better than people imagine and will certainly take advantage of teams who take them lightly. Remember they gave us trouble last year even without their key players. It's teams like these that will be fun to watch Creighton play. Creighton will be the better team, but do they realize that even the bottom few teams in our conference are as good as the 3rd MVC team?

I don't think Seton Hall and Depaul are better than any team in the MVC. You listed several players. Only Edwin is a BE player. Sina is a freshman, and unless he's Gmac good, they're gonna finish either dead last, or right above it.

In regards to giving us trouble, there are no prizes for losing a close game. Remember when St.John's almost beat Kevin Durant and Texas at MSG? Neither does anyone else.

Quote from: RedStormyNight on May 12, 2013, 08:07:04 PM

Didn't say SH would be good I said they would be better than expected. They still have Mobley, Oliver, Edwin, and signed Sina. They are the kind of team that may not have the prettiest record but better than people imagine and will certainly take advantage of teams who take them lightly. Remember they gave us trouble last year even without their key players. It's teams like these that will be fun to watch Creighton play. Creighton will be the better team, but do they realize that even the bottom few teams in our conference are as good as the 3rd MVC team?

I don't think Seton Hall and Depaul are better than any team in the MVC. You listed several players. Only Edwin is a BE player. Sina is a freshman, and unless he's Gmac good, they're gonna finish either dead last, or right above it.

Bradley, Drake, Evansville, Missouri State, UNI, SIU.

The only teams SH and DePaul are not clearly better than currently in the MVC are Wichita State and Indiana State (close call).

Quote from: Poison on May 12, 2013, 08:09:52 PM

Quote from: RedStormyNight on May 12, 2013, 08:07:04 PM

Didn't say SH would be good I said they would be better than expected. They still have Mobley, Oliver, Edwin, and signed Sina. They are the kind of team that may not have the prettiest record but better than people imagine and will certainly take advantage of teams who take them lightly. Remember they gave us trouble last year even without their key players. It's teams like these that will be fun to watch Creighton play. Creighton will be the better team, but do they realize that even the bottom few teams in our conference are as good as the 3rd MVC team?

I don't think Seton Hall and Depaul are better than any team in the MVC. You listed several players. Only Edwin is a BE player. Sina is a freshman, and unless he's Gmac good, they're gonna finish either dead last, or right above it.

Bradley, Drake, Evansville, Missouri State, UNI, SIU.

The only teams SH and DePaul are not clearly better than currently in the MVC are Wichita State and Indiana State (close call).

Depaul is clearly better these teams based on what? Couldn't SIU get housed in the BE just like Depaul did? How hard is it to get beaten badly? That is the only thing that Seton Hall and Depaul did w consistency last year.

Depaul went 2-16 in the BE. How many teams are there in the entire country that couldn't achieve that?

2-16 against the OLD Big East...aka the monster one including the national champs and a final four team. They played us extremely tough and they had like 3 or 4 nail biter losses by single digits. Without the top dogs like L'Ville, Cuse, Pitt, etc. DePaul has a chance to prove it can be just below average instead of pathetic. Put yourself in the shoes of a Bradley fan (if they exist).

Do you honestly expect to win against a Big East team? Not sure what your confidence in those bad MVC teams is backed by. Creighton is gone and all they have left is Wichita. They are back to being a likely 1 bid conference with the occasional 2 no different than the MAAC. The thing you aren't acknowledging is the talent disparity between the worst Big East teams and the 3rd to last MVC teams. MVC teams other than Creighton and Wichita are not exactly recruiting gurus. They are lucky to land one 4 star player.

DePaul was 11-21 last year, they aren't 'clearly' better than anyone.   And we're not exactly in a positin to be judging anyone yet.   We have a ton of potential, but lets actually win a little before we lump ourselves in with Georgetown, Marquette, and Nova.   

2-16 against the OLD Big East...aka the monster one including the national champs and a final four team. They played us extremely tough and they had like 3 or 4 nail biter losses by single digits. Without the top dogs like L'Ville, Cuse, Pitt, etc. DePaul has a chance to prove it can be just below average instead of pathetic. Put yourself in the shoes of a Bradley fan (if they exist).

Do you honestly expect to win against a Big East team? Not sure what your confidence in those bad MVC teams is backed by. Creighton is gone and all they have left is Wichita. They are back to being a likely 1 bid conference with the occasional 2 no different than the MAAC. The thing you aren't acknowledging is the talent disparity between the worst Big East teams and the 3rd to last MVC teams. MVC teams other than Creighton and Wichita are not exactly recruiting gurus. They are lucky to land one 4 star player.

If I'm a Bradley fan, and I actually know one, I'd expect to beat Depaul by 20, and that's during an off year. Georgetown is one thing, but there isn't magic that makes all BE teams better than mid majors. And this isn't a bs mid major conference like the MAAC. The MVC is legit.

We've played teams from that conference before. Remember Illinois State? They were a middle of the pack MVC team in 06-07. Remember what they did to us in our house?

Quote from: RedStormyNight on May 12, 2013, 08:39:50 PM

2-16 against the OLD Big East...aka the monster one including the national champs and a final four team. They played us extremely tough and they had like 3 or 4 nail biter losses by single digits. Without the top dogs like L'Ville, Cuse, Pitt, etc. DePaul has a chance to prove it can be just below average instead of pathetic. Put yourself in the shoes of a Bradley fan (if they exist).

Do you honestly expect to win against a Big East team? Not sure what your confidence in those bad MVC teams is backed by. Creighton is gone and all they have left is Wichita. They are back to being a likely 1 bid conference with the occasional 2 no different than the MAAC. The thing you aren't acknowledging is the talent disparity between the worst Big East teams and the 3rd to last MVC teams. MVC teams other than Creighton and Wichita are not exactly recruiting gurus. They are lucky to land one 4 star player.

If I'm a Bradley fan, and I actually know one, I'd expect to beat Depaul by 20, and that's during an off year. Georgetown is one thing, but there isn't magic that makes all BE teams better than mid majors. And this isn't a bs mid major conference like the MAAC. The MVC is legit.

We've played teams from that conference before. Remember Illinois State? They were a middle of the pack MVC team in 06-07. Remember what they did to us in our house?

Pomeroy had DePaul ranked above Bradley. Spread would be a near push on a neutral court. They are roughly equal most years.

Quote from: Poison on May 12, 2013, 10:04:22 PM

Quote from: RedStormyNight on May 12, 2013, 08:39:50 PM

2-16 against the OLD Big East...aka the monster one including the national champs and a final four team. They played us extremely tough and they had like 3 or 4 nail biter losses by single digits. Without the top dogs like L'Ville, Cuse, Pitt, etc. DePaul has a chance to prove it can be just below average instead of pathetic. Put yourself in the shoes of a Bradley fan (if they exist).

Do you honestly expect to win against a Big East team? Not sure what your confidence in those bad MVC teams is backed by. Creighton is gone and all they have left is Wichita. They are back to being a likely 1 bid conference with the occasional 2 no different than the MAAC. The thing you aren't acknowledging is the talent disparity between the worst Big East teams and the 3rd to last MVC teams. MVC teams other than Creighton and Wichita are not exactly recruiting gurus. They are lucky to land one 4 star player.

If I'm a Bradley fan, and I actually know one, I'd expect to beat Depaul by 20, and that's during an off year. Georgetown is one thing, but there isn't magic that makes all BE teams better than mid majors. And this isn't a bs mid major conference like the MAAC. The MVC is legit.

We've played teams from that conference before. Remember Illinois State? They were a middle of the pack MVC team in 06-07. Remember what they did to us in our house?

Pomeroy had DePaul ranked above Bradley. Spread would be a near push on a neutral court. They are roughly equal most years.

If you consider what we know of Depaul, they are the worst BE program in the history of the conference. There really isn't a team out there that they couldn't lose to.

You guys are essentially making the argument that the worst student at a very good school like Boston College is worse than the average student at SUNY Cortland. The analogy is saying the worst Big East team is worse than an average MVC team like Bradley. Sorry not buying it. You are nuts if you expect Bradley to beat DePaul by 20. Mighty mighty Bradley huh? And with Illinois State...ok they were good once recently? Who cares...every team has a good year every so often but that doesn't make you Big East material. Are we to crown Vermont as the new kings because they beat Cuse once? Same concept.

The MVC was the #8 best conference and that was WITH 2 powerhouses. One of them (Creighton) is now gone. They will definitely be at best the #10 conference if not worse. If there was a MAAC vs. MVC challenge a few years back when Siena beat Ohio State, when Manhattan, Iona, and Fairfield were good, they would give the MVC a run for their money. If they played each others teams I don't think you would see a big difference with the exception of Wichita State killing the MAAC teams.

Quote from: Gray Chudney on May 12, 2013, 10:44:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on May 12, 2013, 10:04:22 PM

Quote from: RedStormyNight on May 12, 2013, 08:39:50 PM

2-16 against the OLD Big East...aka the monster one including the national champs and a final four team. They played us extremely tough and they had like 3 or 4 nail biter losses by single digits. Without the top dogs like L'Ville, Cuse, Pitt, etc. DePaul has a chance to prove it can be just below average instead of pathetic. Put yourself in the shoes of a Bradley fan (if they exist).

Do you honestly expect to win against a Big East team? Not sure what your confidence in those bad MVC teams is backed by. Creighton is gone and all they have left is Wichita. They are back to being a likely 1 bid conference with the occasional 2 no different than the MAAC. The thing you aren't acknowledging is the talent disparity between the worst Big East teams and the 3rd to last MVC teams. MVC teams other than Creighton and Wichita are not exactly recruiting gurus. They are lucky to land one 4 star player.

If I'm a Bradley fan, and I actually know one, I'd expect to beat Depaul by 20, and that's during an off year. Georgetown is one thing, but there isn't magic that makes all BE teams better than mid majors. And this isn't a bs mid major conference like the MAAC. The MVC is legit.

We've played teams from that conference before. Remember Illinois State? They were a middle of the pack MVC team in 06-07. Remember what they did to us in our house?

Pomeroy had DePaul ranked above Bradley. Spread would be a near push on a neutral court. They are roughly equal most years.

If you consider what we know of Depaul, they are the worst BE program in the history of the conference. There really isn't a team out there that they couldn't lose to.

I was responding to your statement that Bradley fans should expect to beat them by 20. This leagues worst team is approximately equal to a middle of the pack MVC team (statistically). Conversely, Creighton's toughest comp in that league last year is approximately equal to a middle of the pack team in the Big East. MVC is a nice league but ours is definitely stronger. When mcdermott graduates, Creighton is likely to struggle. I'm not really sure why this is being contested.

You guys are essentially making the argument that the worst student at a very good school like Boston College is worse than the average student at SUNY Cortland. The analogy is saying the worst Big East team is worse than an average MVC team like Bradley. Sorry not buying it. You are nuts if you expect Bradley to beat DePaul by 20. Mighty mighty Bradley huh? And with Illinois State...ok they were good once recently? Who cares...every team has a good year every so often but that doesn't make you Big East material. Are we to crown Vermont as the new kings because they beat Cuse once? Same concept.

The MVC was the #8 best conference and that was WITH 2 powerhouses. One of them (Creighton) is now gone. They will definitely be at best the #10 conference if not worse. If there was a MAAC vs. MVC challenge a few years back when Siena beat Ohio State, when Manhattan, Iona, and Fairfield were good, they would give the MVC a run for their money. If they played each others teams I don't think you would see a big difference with the exception of Wichita State killing the MAAC teams.

The only point I'm making is that just about any D1 team could go 2-16 in the BE. Depaul lost a lot of close games to good teams, and they did that because they are a bad team. Saying that bad BE teams are better than bad MVC teams is kinda silly anyway. A bad team is a bad team. What does it matter?

Creighton and Butler are very good programs.  Stevens really coaches defense.  Creighton's McDermott is a bear and they can be dangerous.  They aren't the likes of Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt etc.  IMO, a team like Creighton is a bit like Notre Dame who we gave fits to over past few years.  These team's fit well into our conference, but I don't think they will find their schedule as forgiving as their prior conference schedules. 

I love that Creighton went out and hired Sellers.  It shows they are taking this seriously and they know they need to up the talent.   I think Stevens is an amazing coach. I'd like to see him start bringing more top 100 talent in.  If I were a player, I'd love to play for him.  I still think they will have a tougher time in this league than they had prior.

It depends on how teams like us and Prov do. Right now, I've seen 2013-2014 NCAA brackets that have 4 BE teams in. That's less than the A10 had last year. Overall, and certainly at the top, the BE is still a much tougher conference. I only see parity at the bottom.

Creighton will be the better team, but do they realize that even the bottom few teams in our conference are as good as the 3rd MVC team?

Ridiculous. 

Quote from: RedStormyNight on May 13, 2013, 03:24:35 AM

You guys are essentially making the argument that the worst student at a very good school like Boston College is worse than the average student at SUNY Cortland. The analogy is saying the worst Big East team is worse than an average MVC team like Bradley. Sorry not buying it. You are nuts if you expect Bradley to beat DePaul by 20. Mighty mighty Bradley huh? And with Illinois State...ok they were good once recently? Who cares...every team has a good year every so often but that doesn't make you Big East material. Are we to crown Vermont as the new kings because they beat Cuse once? Same concept.

The MVC was the #8 best conference and that was WITH 2 powerhouses. One of them (Creighton) is now gone. They will definitely be at best the #10 conference if not worse. If there was a MAAC vs. MVC challenge a few years back when Siena beat Ohio State, when Manhattan, Iona, and Fairfield were good, they would give the MVC a run for their money. If they played each others teams I don't think you would see a big difference with the exception of Wichita State killing the MAAC teams.

The only point I'm making is that just about any D1 team could go 2-16 in the BE. Depaul lost a lot of close games to good teams, and they did that because they are a bad team. Saying that bad BE teams are better than bad MVC teams is kinda silly anyway. A bad team is a bad team. What does it matter?

Why do you lump mid majors with majors? You are ignoring the obvious dividing line that separates them. If I was comparing the MAAC to the MVC then yeah a bad team is a bad team and they are basically on the same level for the most part. But comparing the Big East to the MVC with the assumption that they are just as competitive and contain equally quality teams is just nonsense. A bad team isn't just a bad team. It's not black and white. The worst student at Harvard is going to be better than the average student at Adelphi University. That's just the way it is...there are different levels, thus it's all relative. Creighton did not play 1 ranked team last year in the regular season and finally lost when they faced their first in the tourney.

You say any team can go 2-16 in the Big East but look how many close games they had. They actually have good players they just can't win close games for whatever reason. Melvin, Young, and Crockett would beat Bradley 70% of the time. I can't even believe we are having a serious discussion about how the MVC stacks up against the Big East. Might as well talk about how the middle America East team can hang in the ACC next.

Quote from: Poison on May 13, 2013, 08:41:23 AM

Quote from: RedStormyNight on May 13, 2013, 03:24:35 AM

You guys are essentially making the argument that the worst student at a very good school like Boston College is worse than the average student at SUNY Cortland. The analogy is saying the worst Big East team is worse than an average MVC team like Bradley. Sorry not buying it. You are nuts if you expect Bradley to beat DePaul by 20. Mighty mighty Bradley huh? And with Illinois State...ok they were good once recently? Who cares...every team has a good year every so often but that doesn't make you Big East material. Are we to crown Vermont as the new kings because they beat Cuse once? Same concept.

The MVC was the #8 best conference and that was WITH 2 powerhouses. One of them (Creighton) is now gone. They will definitely be at best the #10 conference if not worse. If there was a MAAC vs. MVC challenge a few years back when Siena beat Ohio State, when Manhattan, Iona, and Fairfield were good, they would give the MVC a run for their money. If they played each others teams I don't think you would see a big difference with the exception of Wichita State killing the MAAC teams.

The only point I'm making is that just about any D1 team could go 2-16 in the BE. Depaul lost a lot of close games to good teams, and they did that because they are a bad team. Saying that bad BE teams are better than bad MVC teams is kinda silly anyway. A bad team is a bad team. What does it matter?

Why do you lump mid majors with majors? You are ignoring the obvious dividing line that separates them. If I was comparing the MAAC to the MVC then yeah a bad team is a bad team and they are basically on the same level for the most part. But comparing the Big East to the MVC with the assumption that they are just as competitive and contain equally quality teams is just nonsense. A bad team isn't just a bad team. It's not black and white. The worst student at Harvard is going to be better than the average student at Adelphi University. That's just the way it is...there are different levels, thus it's all relative. Creighton did not play 1 ranked team last year in the regular season and finally lost when they faced their first in the tourney.

You say any team can go 2-16 in the Big East but look how many close games they had. They actually have good players they just can't win close games for whatever reason. Melvin, Young, and Crockett would beat Bradley 70% of the time. I can't even believe we are having a serious discussion about how the MVC stacks up against the Big East. Might as well talk about how the middle America East team can hang in the ACC next.

A bad mid major, and a true mid major like SIU, Brad,  and a program like Depaul are at the same level in terms of how strong the team is. Depaul is a high major in conference only. Every MVC team could do as well if not better than they have performed not only last year, but the last 7 years.

I addressed your point about the close games. Bad teams keep losing them. That defines Depaul. The answer to why is that as a team, Depaul has terrible chemistry. They do have talented players, but they don't work together. Clearly, they have an awful coach.

And, the MVC isn't the MAAC. That's a legit mid major conference.

Quote from: RedStormyNight on May 13, 2013, 12:01:03 PM

Quote from: Poison on May 13, 2013, 08:41:23 AM

Quote from: RedStormyNight on May 13, 2013, 03:24:35 AM

You guys are essentially making the argument that the worst student at a very good school like Boston College is worse than the average student at SUNY Cortland. The analogy is saying the worst Big East team is worse than an average MVC team like Bradley. Sorry not buying it. You are nuts if you expect Bradley to beat DePaul by 20. Mighty mighty Bradley huh? And with Illinois State...ok they were good once recently? Who cares...every team has a good year every so often but that doesn't make you Big East material. Are we to crown Vermont as the new kings because they beat Cuse once? Same concept.

The MVC was the #8 best conference and that was WITH 2 powerhouses. One of them (Creighton) is now gone. They will definitely be at best the #10 conference if not worse. If there was a MAAC vs. MVC challenge a few years back when Siena beat Ohio State, when Manhattan, Iona, and Fairfield were good, they would give the MVC a run for their money. If they played each others teams I don't think you would see a big difference with the exception of Wichita State killing the MAAC teams.

The only point I'm making is that just about any D1 team could go 2-16 in the BE. Depaul lost a lot of close games to good teams, and they did that because they are a bad team. Saying that bad BE teams are better than bad MVC teams is kinda silly anyway. A bad team is a bad team. What does it matter?

Why do you lump mid majors with majors? You are ignoring the obvious dividing line that separates them. If I was comparing the MAAC to the MVC then yeah a bad team is a bad team and they are basically on the same level for the most part. But comparing the Big East to the MVC with the assumption that they are just as competitive and contain equally quality teams is just nonsense. A bad team isn't just a bad team. It's not black and white. The worst student at Harvard is going to be better than the average student at Adelphi University. That's just the way it is...there are different levels, thus it's all relative. Creighton did not play 1 ranked team last year in the regular season and finally lost when they faced their first in the tourney.

You say any team can go 2-16 in the Big East but look how many close games they had. They actually have good players they just can't win close games for whatever reason. Melvin, Young, and Crockett would beat Bradley 70% of the time. I can't even believe we are having a serious discussion about how the MVC stacks up against the Big East. Might as well talk about how the middle America East team can hang in the ACC next.

A bad mid major, and a true mid major like SIU, Brad,  and a program like Depaul are at the same level in terms of how strong the team is. Depaul is a high major in conference only. Every MVC team could do as well if not better than they have performed not only last year, but the last 7 years.

I addressed your point about the close games. Bad teams keep losing them. That defines Depaul. The answer to why is that as a team, Depaul has terrible chemistry. They do have talented players, but they don't work together. Clearly, they have an awful coach.

And, the MVC isn't the MAAC. That's a legit mid major conference.

If I didn't watch college hoops at all and you were the first person I'd talked to about it, I would assume the MVC was a major conference from your comments. They are a 1 bid conference deal with it.

Quote from: Poison on May 13, 2013, 12:24:25 PM

Quote from: RedStormyNight on May 13, 2013, 12:01:03 PM

Quote from: Poison on May 13, 2013, 08:41:23 AM

Quote from: RedStormyNight on May 13, 2013, 03:24:35 AM

You guys are essentially making the argument that the worst student at a very good school like Boston College is worse than the average student at SUNY Cortland. The analogy is saying the worst Big East team is worse than an average MVC team like Bradley. Sorry not buying it. You are nuts if you expect Bradley to beat DePaul by 20. Mighty mighty Bradley huh? And with Illinois State...ok they were good once recently? Who cares...every team has a good year every so often but that doesn't make you Big East material. Are we to crown Vermont as the new kings because they beat Cuse once? Same concept.

The MVC was the #8 best conference and that was WITH 2 powerhouses. One of them (Creighton) is now gone. They will definitely be at best the #10 conference if not worse. If there was a MAAC vs. MVC challenge a few years back when Siena beat Ohio State, when Manhattan, Iona, and Fairfield were good, they would give the MVC a run for their money. If they played each others teams I don't think you would see a big difference with the exception of Wichita State killing the MAAC teams.

The only point I'm making is that just about any D1 team could go 2-16 in the BE. Depaul lost a lot of close games to good teams, and they did that because they are a bad team. Saying that bad BE teams are better than bad MVC teams is kinda silly anyway. A bad team is a bad team. What does it matter?

Why do you lump mid majors with majors? You are ignoring the obvious dividing line that separates them. If I was comparing the MAAC to the MVC then yeah a bad team is a bad team and they are basically on the same level for the most part. But comparing the Big East to the MVC with the assumption that they are just as competitive and contain equally quality teams is just nonsense. A bad team isn't just a bad team. It's not black and white. The worst student at Harvard is going to be better than the average student at Adelphi University. That's just the way it is...there are different levels, thus it's all relative. Creighton did not play 1 ranked team last year in the regular season and finally lost when they faced their first in the tourney.

You say any team can go 2-16 in the Big East but look how many close games they had. They actually have good players they just can't win close games for whatever reason. Melvin, Young, and Crockett would beat Bradley 70% of the time. I can't even believe we are having a serious discussion about how the MVC stacks up against the Big East. Might as well talk about how the middle America East team can hang in the ACC next.

A bad mid major, and a true mid major like SIU, Brad,  and a program like Depaul are at the same level in terms of how strong the team is. Depaul is a high major in conference only. Every MVC team could do as well if not better than they have performed not only last year, but the last 7 years.

I addressed your point about the close games. Bad teams keep losing them. That defines Depaul. The answer to why is that as a team, Depaul has terrible chemistry. They do have talented players, but they don't work together. Clearly, they have an awful coach.

And, the MVC isn't the MAAC. That's a legit mid major conference.

If I didn't watch college hoops at all and you were the first person I'd talked to about it, I would assume the MVC was a major conference from your comments. They are a 1 bid conference deal with it.

A one bid conference which really isn't a one bid conference.