Summer Europe Trip

Quote from: Moose on August 29, 2013, 08:15:13 PM

Were those really Coker's number's his Sr year?

7.3 points, 6.5 rebounds and 3.0 blocks as part of a four-man rotation. . .

My bad, i didn't realize what a good year he had

Quote from: LJSA on August 29, 2013, 09:50:25 PM

Quote from: Moose on August 29, 2013, 08:15:13 PM

Were those really Coker's number's his Sr year?

7.3 points, 6.5 rebounds and 3.0 blocks as part of a four-man rotation. . .

My bad, i didn't realize what a good year he had

It's not like he was playing at Elmont Memorial. At South Kent that was a good year for a big man.

Quote from: NYCoffey on August 29, 2013, 05:00:40 PM

We reserve our right to prejudge all St. John's players and change our angle based on one bad performance.

Or good performance.

Exactly right.   We also fall into the closely related habit of convincing ourselves a player is something other than what we've already observed.    We've seen Harrison, Greene etc for 2 years now at 30mpg.  Could they still have improved this summer? Sure.   
But, we try to convince ourselves (without having seen him) that Hooper is the next Steve Novak, while presuming that players who we have seen a huge sample size of will come back as something different than they were before. 

Lets not prejudge guys we've never seen.  But when we do actually see a guy play for an extended period, we need to realize by and large that's who he is.   

Quote from: qcredman on August 29, 2013, 06:53:14 PM

Quote from: NYCoffey on August 29, 2013, 05:00:40 PM

We reserve our right to prejudge all St. John's players and change our angle based on one bad performance.

Or good performance.

Exactly right.   We also fall into the closely related habit of convincing ourselves a player is something other than what we've already observed.    We've seen Harrison, Greene etc for 2 years now at 30mpg.  Could they still have improved this summer? Sure.   
But, we try to convince ourselves (without having seen him) that Hooper is the next Steve Novak, while presuming that players who we have seen a huge sample size of will come back as something different than they were before. 

Lets not prejudge guys we've never seen.  But when we do actually see a guy play for an extended period, we need to realize by and large that's who he is.   

It's not that black and white. Justin Brownlee was a terrific player his senior year at STJ. Lavin saw that coming. No one else did.

Quote from: desco80 on August 30, 2013, 12:00:29 AM

Quote from: qcredman on August 29, 2013, 06:53:14 PM

Quote from: NYCoffey on August 29, 2013, 05:00:40 PM

We reserve our right to prejudge all St. John's players and change our angle based on one bad performance.

Or good performance.

Exactly right.   We also fall into the closely related habit of convincing ourselves a player is something other than what we've already observed.    We've seen Harrison, Greene etc for 2 years now at 30mpg.  Could they still have improved this summer? Sure.   
But, we try to convince ourselves (without having seen him) that Hooper is the next Steve Novak, while presuming that players who we have seen a huge sample size of will come back as something different than they were before. 

Lets not prejudge guys we've never seen.  But when we do actually see a guy play for an extended period, we need to realize by and large that's who he is.   

It's not that black and white. Justin Brownlee was a terrific player his senior year at STJ. Lavin saw that coming. No one else did.

Oh I think there were others who saw something in Brownlee.  I give Lavin credit for trying Hardy at the point but it wasn't as if it wasn't being posted on a daily basis.  He did realize that the Maliks couldn't do the job and made some pretty obvious adjustments. He reverted to the good old "play your best five" thing and it worked.  Since then we had to live through a year with six starters, a losing record, the unnecessary loss of Harkless followed by a game over .500 and an NIT gift with DLO tossed.  To be honest I think this coach has a lot to prove.  The talent level is up but so are expectations.  I think we'll have a decent year but 2014 looks like a real potential problem so far.  I'm sending my check for the seats but I want to hear some big recruiting news before I do it again.  This up and down stuff has to stop and I only trust what I see.  Lavin's track record is nothing to crow about and this year's record and it's effect on recruiting will tell the story.

Quote from: Poison on August 30, 2013, 12:02:12 AM

Quote from: desco80 on August 30, 2013, 12:00:29 AM

Quote from: qcredman on August 29, 2013, 06:53:14 PM

Quote from: NYCoffey on August 29, 2013, 05:00:40 PM

We reserve our right to prejudge all St. John's players and change our angle based on one bad performance.

Or good performance.

Exactly right.   We also fall into the closely related habit of convincing ourselves a player is something other than what we've already observed.    We've seen Harrison, Greene etc for 2 years now at 30mpg.  Could they still have improved this summer? Sure.   
But, we try to convince ourselves (without having seen him) that Hooper is the next Steve Novak, while presuming that players who we have seen a huge sample size of will come back as something different than they were before. 

Lets not prejudge guys we've never seen.  But when we do actually see a guy play for an extended period, we need to realize by and large that's who he is.   

It's not that black and white. Justin Brownlee was a terrific player his senior year at STJ. Lavin saw that coming. No one else did.

Oh I think there were others who saw something in Brownlee.  I give Lavin credit for trying Hardy at the point but it wasn't as if it wasn't being posted on a daily basis.  He did realize that the Maliks couldn't do the job and made some pretty obvious adjustments. He reverted to the good old "play your best five" thing and it worked.  Since then we had to live through a year with six starters, a losing record, the unnecessary loss of Harkless followed by a game over .500 and an NIT gift with DLO tossed.  To be honest I think this coach has a lot to prove.  The talent level is up but so are expectations.  I think we'll have a decent year but 2014 looks like a real potential problem so far.  I'm sending my check for the seats but I want to hear some big recruiting news before I do it again.  This up and down stuff has to stop and I only trust what I see.  Lavin's track record is nothing to crow about and this year's record and it's effect on recruiting will tell the story.

What up and down recruiting stuff? He has delivered not just good classes every year but great classes every year. We haven't had a down recruiting year since he took over

^^ But he didn't bring i  a big this year! 

“@rumbleSBN: What insights have we learned about this year's Johnnies from #sjubb's Euro trip? http://sbn.to/19aBVdb”

I have gone back to my city. First of all, I should have written before the first game in Spain that I was not going to be available by internet in Barcelona because I didn´t travel with a computer. Sorry.

It was fantastic to see St. John´s play in my country. I will write two topics in this thread, the first one about the games and the second one about the behaviour of the players and the staff.

Although we win the first game, in the second one the team played better, much better.

First game:
A few considerations before my comments: Sampson (minor injury) and Achiuwa (stomach virus) didn´t play, so there were only 11 available players (two of them walk-ons) and Bourgault only played 3 minutes.
The team had many fouls. Sanchez and Pointer had 5 fouls and Branch had 4 fouls in the first half. That made that in some moments Hooper played the 4 position.

The good things:

- Thanks to Sanchez and Hooper this is a better rebounding team. There is no always box out but the team is improving (they have more experience). And the team goes hard for the offensive rebound.
- The team (and the offensive system) know that Hooper is a good shooter and they look for him.
- The individual defense. Some players (Pointer, Harrison, Branch and Jordan) have very quick hands and other players (Obepka, Sanchez) know in many times anticipate the play.
- A running team. The team play fast.
- The team knew that Harrison and Branch (remember, Sampson didn´t play) will shoot in the clutch. The team knows the options.

The things that need improvements:

- The free throw shooting. 16/27 is not good.
- Unlike Lavin´s teams, many turnovers (24). It is true that some of them won´t happen in United States (travelling is different in Europe) but there were some bad passes.
- The 2-3 defense. Not because the 3 point shooting of the opponent (8/30), but there were some plays that the CB Prat frontcourt players were free near the basket and they made easy baskets. For example, Jones was benched twice for these kind of plays.
- I think that the team could use (and make some plays) for Obepka. 25 minutes, 1 shot in the last minute (a dunk that he missed).

But in the second game the team played better. The attack was more efficient (Sampson played and this helps) and there were many situations that the players made the correct pass to the teammate that was free and there were more easy baskets.

The 2-3 defense improved (at least in the interior plays). It was a visible fact that before the game all the coaches gave advices and talks to the players, telling them how they had to defend. Unfortunately Manresa team (a better team than CB Prat) shot 11/21 in 3 pointers. But, at least they covered better the interior plays.

The free throw shooting was bad again. For example, Hooper didn´t shoot many free throws, but in the five games in Europe I think that he was 3/8. Strange.

It is good that there were improvements, although it is obvious that all (players, coaches and fans) are ambitious and want more.

Phil Greene was shooting before the games. I don´t know when he could play.

When Branch and Jordan played together, Branch was the point guard.

And sorry for my english.

I think that I must write about the fantastic behaviour of all St. John´s members (players, coaches, managers) to the kids.

They signed autographs, take pictures, give St. John´s basketball t-shirts.

Although the players were tired they only showed smiles to the kids, no bad behaviour.

It was wonderful.

I could meet Coach Lavin, a great guy. He gave me his tracksuit before the second game.

I could speak to Chris Monasch and Ron Linfonte.

And I could meet again to Mark Fratto. He gave me several basketball publications. All of them are great guys, too.

It was a pleasure trip.

Thanks for the report Gonzalo,

I have gone back to my city. First of all, I should have written before the first game in Spain that I was not going to be available by internet in Barcelona because I didn´t travel with a computer. Sorry.

It was fantastic to see St. John´s play in my country. I will write two topics in this thread, the first one about the games and the second one about the behaviour of the players and the staff.

Although we win the first game, in the second one the team played better, much better.

First game:
A few considerations before my comments: Sampson (minor injury) and Achiuwa (stomach virus) didn´t play, so there were only 11 available players (two of them walk-ons) and Bourgault only played 3 minutes.
The team had many fouls. Sanchez and Pointer had 5 fouls and Branch had 4 fouls in the first half. That made that in some moments Hooper played the 4 position.

The good things:

- Thanks to Sanchez and Hooper this is a better rebounding team. There is no always box out but the team is improving (they have more experience). And the team goes hard for the offensive rebound.
- The team (and the offensive system) know that Hooper is a good shooter and they look for him.
- The individual defense. Some players (Pointer, Harrison, Branch and Jordan) have very quick hands and other players (Obepka, Sanchez) know in many times anticipate the play.
- A running team. The team play fast.
- The team knew that Harrison and Branch (remember, Sampson didn´t play) will shoot in the clutch. The team knows the options.

The things that need improvements:

- The free throw shooting. 16/27 is not good.
- Unlike Lavin´s teams, many turnovers (24). It is true that some of them won´t happen in United States (travelling is different in Europe) but there were some bad passes.
- The 2-3 defense. Not because the 3 point shooting of the opponent (8/30), but there were some plays that the CB Prat frontcourt players were free near the basket and they made easy baskets. For example, Jones was benched twice for these kind of plays.
- I think that the team could use (and make some plays) for Obepka. 25 minutes, 1 shot in the last minute (a dunk that he missed).

But in the second game the team played better. The attack was more efficient (Sampson played and this helps) and there were many situations that the players made the correct pass to the teammate that was free and there were more easy baskets.

The 2-3 defense improved (at least in the interior plays). It was a visible fact that before the game all the coaches gave advices and talks to the players, telling them how they had to defend. Unfortunately Manresa team (a better team than CB Prat) shot 11/21 in 3 pointers. But, at least they covered better the interior plays.

The free throw shooting was bad again. For example, Hooper didn´t shoot many free throws, but in the five games in Europe I think that he was 3/8. Strange.

It is good that there were improvements, although it is obvious that all (players, coaches and fans) are ambitious and want more.

Phil Greene was shooting before the games. I don´t know when he could play.

When Branch and Jordan played together, Branch was the point guard.

And sorry for my english.

Do not apologize for your English. It's damn good, and I'm sure everyone appreciates that you shared this. Thanks.

Quote from: bobre45 on August 30, 2013, 10:44:54 AM

Quote from: Poison on August 30, 2013, 12:02:12 AM

Quote from: desco80 on August 30, 2013, 12:00:29 AM

Quote from: qcredman on August 29, 2013, 06:53:14 PM

Quote from: NYCoffey on August 29, 2013, 05:00:40 PM

We reserve our right to prejudge all St. John's players and change our angle based on one bad performance.

Or good performance.

Exactly right.   We also fall into the closely related habit of convincing ourselves a player is something other than what we've already observed.    We've seen Harrison, Greene etc for 2 years now at 30mpg.  Could they still have improved this summer? Sure.   
But, we try to convince ourselves (without having seen him) that Hooper is the next Steve Novak, while presuming that players who we have seen a huge sample size of will come back as something different than they were before. 

Lets not prejudge guys we've never seen.  But when we do actually see a guy play for an extended period, we need to realize by and large that's who he is.   

It's not that black and white. Justin Brownlee was a terrific player his senior year at STJ. Lavin saw that coming. No one else did.

Oh I think there were others who saw something in Brownlee.  I give Lavin credit for trying Hardy at the point but it wasn't as if it wasn't being posted on a daily basis.  He did realize that the Maliks couldn't do the job and made some pretty obvious adjustments. He reverted to the good old "play your best five" thing and it worked.  Since then we had to live through a year with six starters, a losing record, the unnecessary loss of Harkless followed by a game over .500 and an NIT gift with DLO tossed.  To be honest I think this coach has a lot to prove.  The talent level is up but so are expectations.  I think we'll have a decent year but 2014 looks like a real potential problem so far.  I'm sending my check for the seats but I want to hear some big recruiting news before I do it again.  This up and down stuff has to stop and I only trust what I see.  Lavin's track record is nothing to crow about and this year's record and it's effect on recruiting will tell the story.

What up and down recruiting stuff? He has delivered not just good classes every year but great classes every year. We haven't had a down recruiting year since he took over

I didn't say up and down recruiting.  You are what your record says you are and ours stinks.  What happened with Polee, Lindsey and Garrett?  We're damn lucky DLO came back and Sampson, GG and Sanchez are one year propositions at this point.  Sheed can't carry a team and our roster is full of holes going forward. We're paying big bucks for all this and it's time to get real.

Quote from: Redstormy80 on August 30, 2013, 03:24:15 PM

Quote from: bobre45 on August 30, 2013, 10:44:54 AM

Quote from: Poison on August 30, 2013, 12:02:12 AM

Quote from: desco80 on August 30, 2013, 12:00:29 AM

Quote from: qcredman on August 29, 2013, 06:53:14 PM

Quote from: NYCoffey on August 29, 2013, 05:00:40 PM

We reserve our right to prejudge all St. John's players and change our angle based on one bad performance.

Or good performance.

Exactly right.   We also fall into the closely related habit of convincing ourselves a player is something other than what we've already observed.    We've seen Harrison, Greene etc for 2 years now at 30mpg.  Could they still have improved this summer? Sure.   
But, we try to convince ourselves (without having seen him) that Hooper is the next Steve Novak, while presuming that players who we have seen a huge sample size of will come back as something different than they were before. 

Lets not prejudge guys we've never seen.  But when we do actually see a guy play for an extended period, we need to realize by and large that's who he is.   

It's not that black and white. Justin Brownlee was a terrific player his senior year at STJ. Lavin saw that coming. No one else did.

Oh I think there were others who saw something in Brownlee.  I give Lavin credit for trying Hardy at the point but it wasn't as if it wasn't being posted on a daily basis.  He did realize that the Maliks couldn't do the job and made some pretty obvious adjustments. He reverted to the good old "play your best five" thing and it worked.  Since then we had to live through a year with six starters, a losing record, the unnecessary loss of Harkless followed by a game over .500 and an NIT gift with DLO tossed.  To be honest I think this coach has a lot to prove.  The talent level is up but so are expectations.  I think we'll have a decent year but 2014 looks like a real potential problem so far.  I'm sending my check for the seats but I want to hear some big recruiting news before I do it again.  This up and down stuff has to stop and I only trust what I see.  Lavin's track record is nothing to crow about and this year's record and it's effect on recruiting will tell the story.

What up and down recruiting stuff? He has delivered not just good classes every year but great classes every year. We haven't had a down recruiting year since he took over

I didn't say up and down recruiting.  You are what your record says you are and ours stinks.  What happened with Polee, Lindsey and Garrett?  We're damn lucky DLO came back and Sampson, GG and Sanchez are one year propositions at this point.  Sheed can't carry a team and our roster is full of holes going forward. We're paying big bucks for all this and it's time to get real.

Transfers happen. What holes do you speak of going forward? We look pretty damn good this year. Next year isn't here yet, I believe there is a very good chance both JK and CO are back next year. Until other wise stated, that is what we should expect. Lets enjoy this year first and hold our judgment for next year after we see what next year's team actually looks like.

Quote from: bobre45 on September 02, 2013, 10:38:59 AM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on August 30, 2013, 03:24:15 PM

Quote from: bobre45 on August 30, 2013, 10:44:54 AM

Quote from: Poison on August 30, 2013, 12:02:12 AM

Quote from: desco80 on August 30, 2013, 12:00:29 AM

Quote from: qcredman on August 29, 2013, 06:53:14 PM

Quote from: NYCoffey on August 29, 2013, 05:00:40 PM

We reserve our right to prejudge all St. John's players and change our angle based on one bad performance.

Or good performance.

Exactly right.   We also fall into the closely related habit of convincing ourselves a player is something other than what we've already observed.    We've seen Harrison, Greene etc for 2 years now at 30mpg.  Could they still have improved this summer? Sure.   
But, we try to convince ourselves (without having seen him) that Hooper is the next Steve Novak, while presuming that players who we have seen a huge sample size of will come back as something different than they were before. 

Lets not prejudge guys we've never seen.  But when we do actually see a guy play for an extended period, we need to realize by and large that's who he is.   

It's not that black and white. Justin Brownlee was a terrific player his senior year at STJ. Lavin saw that coming. No one else did.

Oh I think there were others who saw something in Brownlee.  I give Lavin credit for trying Hardy at the point but it wasn't as if it wasn't being posted on a daily basis.  He did realize that the Maliks couldn't do the job and made some pretty obvious adjustments. He reverted to the good old "play your best five" thing and it worked.  Since then we had to live through a year with six starters, a losing record, the unnecessary loss of Harkless followed by a game over .500 and an NIT gift with DLO tossed.  To be honest I think this coach has a lot to prove.  The talent level is up but so are expectations.  I think we'll have a decent year but 2014 looks like a real potential problem so far.  I'm sending my check for the seats but I want to hear some big recruiting news before I do it again.  This up and down stuff has to stop and I only trust what I see.  Lavin's track record is nothing to crow about and this year's record and it's effect on recruiting will tell the story.

What up and down recruiting stuff? He has delivered not just good classes every year but great classes every year. We haven't had a down recruiting year since he took over

I didn't say up and down recruiting.  You are what your record says you are and ours stinks.  What happened with Polee, Lindsey and Garrett?  We're damn lucky DLO came back and Sampson, GG and Sanchez are one year propositions at this point.  Sheed can't carry a team and our roster is full of holes going forward. We're paying big bucks for all this and it's time to get real.

Transfers happen. What holes do you speak of going forward? We look pretty damn good this year. Next year isn't here yet, I believe there is a very good chance both JK and CO are back next year. Until other wise stated, that is what we should expect. Lets enjoy this year first and hold our judgment for next year after we see what next year's team actually looks like.

Why waste your breath SJUFAN et al??? He is the ultimate "there is a black cloud right in front of that silver lining" kind of guy...

if we win big, there will be some sort of negative comment

Quote from: bobre45 on September 02, 2013, 10:38:59 AM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on August 30, 2013, 03:24:15 PM

Quote from: bobre45 on August 30, 2013, 10:44:54 AM

Quote from: Poison on August 30, 2013, 12:02:12 AM

Quote from: desco80 on August 30, 2013, 12:00:29 AM

Quote from: qcredman on August 29, 2013, 06:53:14 PM

Quote from: NYCoffey on August 29, 2013, 05:00:40 PM

We reserve our right to prejudge all St. John's players and change our angle based on one bad performance.

Or good performance.

Exactly right.   We also fall into the closely related habit of convincing ourselves a player is something other than what we've already observed.    We've seen Harrison, Greene etc for 2 years now at 30mpg.  Could they still have improved this summer? Sure.   
But, we try to convince ourselves (without having seen him) that Hooper is the next Steve Novak, while presuming that players who we have seen a huge sample size of will come back as something different than they were before. 

Lets not prejudge guys we've never seen.  But when we do actually see a guy play for an extended period, we need to realize by and large that's who he is.   

It's not that black and white. Justin Brownlee was a terrific player his senior year at STJ. Lavin saw that coming. No one else did.

Oh I think there were others who saw something in Brownlee.  I give Lavin credit for trying Hardy at the point but it wasn't as if it wasn't being posted on a daily basis.  He did realize that the Maliks couldn't do the job and made some pretty obvious adjustments. He reverted to the good old "play your best five" thing and it worked.  Since then we had to live through a year with six starters, a losing record, the unnecessary loss of Harkless followed by a game over .500 and an NIT gift with DLO tossed.  To be honest I think this coach has a lot to prove.  The talent level is up but so are expectations.  I think we'll have a decent year but 2014 looks like a real potential problem so far.  I'm sending my check for the seats but I want to hear some big recruiting news before I do it again.  This up and down stuff has to stop and I only trust what I see.  Lavin's track record is nothing to crow about and this year's record and it's effect on recruiting will tell the story.

What up and down recruiting stuff? He has delivered not just good classes every year but great classes every year. We haven't had a down recruiting year since he took over

I didn't say up and down recruiting.  You are what your record says you are and ours stinks.  What happened with Polee, Lindsey and Garrett?  We're damn lucky DLO came back and Sampson, GG and Sanchez are one year propositions at this point.  Sheed can't carry a team and our roster is full of holes going forward. We're paying big bucks for all this and it's time to get real.

Transfers happen. What holes do you speak of going forward? We look pretty damn good this year. Next year isn't here yet, I believe there is a very good chance both JK and CO are back next year. Until other wise stated, that is what we should expect. Lets enjoy this year first and hold our judgment for next year after we see what next year's team actually looks like.

I think Jakarr and Chris both return. If they made significant progress this summer, I think we would have heard about it on Twitter via STJBB or Lavin. These guys while talented, still have a lot of work to do to first get on the NBA radar.

Quote from: Redstormy80 on August 30, 2013, 03:24:15 PM

Quote from: bobre45 on August 30, 2013, 10:44:54 AM

Quote from: Poison on August 30, 2013, 12:02:12 AM

Quote from: desco80 on August 30, 2013, 12:00:29 AM

Quote from: qcredman on August 29, 2013, 06:53:14 PM

Quote from: NYCoffey on August 29, 2013, 05:00:40 PM

We reserve our right to prejudge all St. John's players and change our angle based on one bad performance.

Or good performance.

Exactly right.   We also fall into the closely related habit of convincing ourselves a player is something other than what we've already observed.    We've seen Harrison, Greene etc for 2 years now at 30mpg.  Could they still have improved this summer? Sure.   
But, we try to convince ourselves (without having seen him) that Hooper is the next Steve Novak, while presuming that players who we have seen a huge sample size of will come back as something different than they were before. 

Lets not prejudge guys we've never seen.  But when we do actually see a guy play for an extended period, we need to realize by and large that's who he is.   

It's not that black and white. Justin Brownlee was a terrific player his senior year at STJ. Lavin saw that coming. No one else did.

Oh I think there were others who saw something in Brownlee.  I give Lavin credit for trying Hardy at the point but it wasn't as if it wasn't being posted on a daily basis.  He did realize that the Maliks couldn't do the job and made some pretty obvious adjustments. He reverted to the good old "play your best five" thing and it worked.  Since then we had to live through a year with six starters, a losing record, the unnecessary loss of Harkless followed by a game over .500 and an NIT gift with DLO tossed.  To be honest I think this coach has a lot to prove.  The talent level is up but so are expectations.  I think we'll have a decent year but 2014 looks like a real potential problem so far.  I'm sending my check for the seats but I want to hear some big recruiting news before I do it again.  This up and down stuff has to stop and I only trust what I see.  Lavin's track record is nothing to crow about and this year's record and it's effect on recruiting will tell the story.

What up and down recruiting stuff? He has delivered not just good classes every year but great classes every year. We haven't had a down recruiting year since he took over

I didn't say up and down recruiting.  You are what your record says you are and ours stinks.  What happened with Polee, Lindsey and Garrett?  We're damn lucky DLO came back and Sampson, GG and Sanchez are one year propositions at this point.  Sheed can't carry a team and our roster is full of holes going forward. We're paying big bucks for all this and it's time to get real.

Isn't their record 0-0?

Quote from: SJUFAN on September 02, 2013, 11:58:29 AM

Quote from: bobre45 on September 02, 2013, 10:38:59 AM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on August 30, 2013, 03:24:15 PM

Quote from: bobre45 on August 30, 2013, 10:44:54 AM

Quote from: Poison on August 30, 2013, 12:02:12 AM

Quote from: desco80 on August 30, 2013, 12:00:29 AM

Quote from: qcredman on August 29, 2013, 06:53:14 PM

Quote from: NYCoffey on August 29, 2013, 05:00:40 PM

We reserve our right to prejudge all St. John's players and change our angle based on one bad performance.

Or good performance.

Exactly right.   We also fall into the closely related habit of convincing ourselves a player is something other than what we've already observed.    We've seen Harrison, Greene etc for 2 years now at 30mpg.  Could they still have improved this summer? Sure.   
But, we try to convince ourselves (without having seen him) that Hooper is the next Steve Novak, while presuming that players who we have seen a huge sample size of will come back as something different than they were before. 

Lets not prejudge guys we've never seen.  But when we do actually see a guy play for an extended period, we need to realize by and large that's who he is.   

It's not that black and white. Justin Brownlee was a terrific player his senior year at STJ. Lavin saw that coming. No one else did.

Oh I think there were others who saw something in Brownlee.  I give Lavin credit for trying Hardy at the point but it wasn't as if it wasn't being posted on a daily basis.  He did realize that the Maliks couldn't do the job and made some pretty obvious adjustments. He reverted to the good old "play your best five" thing and it worked.  Since then we had to live through a year with six starters, a losing record, the unnecessary loss of Harkless followed by a game over .500 and an NIT gift with DLO tossed.  To be honest I think this coach has a lot to prove.  The talent level is up but so are expectations.  I think we'll have a decent year but 2014 looks like a real potential problem so far.  I'm sending my check for the seats but I want to hear some big recruiting news before I do it again.  This up and down stuff has to stop and I only trust what I see.  Lavin's track record is nothing to crow about and this year's record and it's effect on recruiting will tell the story.

What up and down recruiting stuff? He has delivered not just good classes every year but great classes every year. We haven't had a down recruiting year since he took over

I didn't say up and down recruiting.  You are what your record says you are and ours stinks.  What happened with Polee, Lindsey and Garrett?  We're damn lucky DLO came back and Sampson, GG and Sanchez are one year propositions at this point.  Sheed can't carry a team and our roster is full of holes going forward. We're paying big bucks for all this and it's time to get real.

Transfers happen. What holes do you speak of going forward? We look pretty damn good this year. Next year isn't here yet, I believe there is a very good chance both JK and CO are back next year. Until other wise stated, that is what we should expect. Lets enjoy this year first and hold our judgment for next year after we see what next year's team actually looks like.

I think Jakarr and Chris both return. If they made significant progress this summer, I think we would have heard about it on Twitter via STJBB or Lavin. These guys while talented, still have a lot of work to do to first get on the NBA radar.

I definitely dont see Obekpa leaving. And if Jakarr/Chris do actually go pro, that most likely means we had a very very good year

Quote from: Redstormy80 on August 30, 2013, 03:24:15 PM

Quote from: bobre45 on August 30, 2013, 10:44:54 AM

Quote from: Poison on August 30, 2013, 12:02:12 AM

Quote from: desco80 on August 30, 2013, 12:00:29 AM

Quote from: qcredman on August 29, 2013, 06:53:14 PM

Quote from: NYCoffey on August 29, 2013, 05:00:40 PM

We reserve our right to prejudge all St. John's players and change our angle based on one bad performance.

Or good performance.

Exactly right.   We also fall into the closely related habit of convincing ourselves a player is something other than what we've already observed.    We've seen Harrison, Greene etc for 2 years now at 30mpg.  Could they still have improved this summer? Sure.   
But, we try to convince ourselves (without having seen him) that Hooper is the next Steve Novak, while presuming that players who we have seen a huge sample size of will come back as something different than they were before. 

Lets not prejudge guys we've never seen.  But when we do actually see a guy play for an extended period, we need to realize by and large that's who he is.   

It's not that black and white. Justin Brownlee was a terrific player his senior year at STJ. Lavin saw that coming. No one else did.

Oh I think there were others who saw something in Brownlee.  I give Lavin credit for trying Hardy at the point but it wasn't as if it wasn't being posted on a daily basis.  He did realize that the Maliks couldn't do the job and made some pretty obvious adjustments. He reverted to the good old "play your best five" thing and it worked.  Since then we had to live through a year with six starters, a losing record, the unnecessary loss of Harkless followed by a game over .500 and an NIT gift with DLO tossed.  To be honest I think this coach has a lot to prove.  The talent level is up but so are expectations.  I think we'll have a decent year but 2014 looks like a real potential problem so far.  I'm sending my check for the seats but I want to hear some big recruiting news before I do it again.  This up and down stuff has to stop and I only trust what I see.  Lavin's track record is nothing to crow about and this year's record and it's effect on recruiting will tell the story.

What up and down recruiting stuff? He has delivered not just good classes every year but great classes every year. We haven't had a down recruiting year since he took over

I didn't say up and down recruiting.  You are what your record says you are and ours stinks.  What happened with Polee, Lindsey and Garrett?  We're damn lucky DLO came back and Sampson, GG and Sanchez are one year propositions at this point.  Sheed can't carry a team and our roster is full of holes going forward. We're paying big bucks for all this and it's time to get real.

Say we had Polee, Lindsey and Garrett on this team. Who exactly would they play over? Lindsey isn't playing over Branch, Harrison or Jordan. He probably not playing over Greend either. Garrett, while I loved his energy and effort, probably realized that playing elsewhere made sense. His summer commitment is where it should be. On his 95 mph left handed fast ball. As far as Polee, I thought he fit well into Lavin's system, and I thought he had a fine freshman season all things considered, but who is the loser in the Dwayne Polee transfer? Him or us?

Didnt like polee at all. He is a great athlete not a very good basketball player. He is to skinny and not strong enough.