3 Years into the new era how would you judge the Lavin hire?

Relative to replacing Norm - a success (but that's not saying much).  Relative to putting us back on the recruiting map for top 100 recruits - an overwhelming success.  Relative to our win/loss record to date - average hire thus far.  So all in, a success, but my view might change to average if this year's team fails to make the Dance.

Pretty much sums it up. Maybe in a couple of years we will be perennial top 20 team and he will be an overwhelming success, I dont know how anyone could call his performance a failure ,specifically when looking at the level of talent he braught in,but next year we ll see if he can coach the talent. At this point I also dont know how you can call him an overwhelming success.

I am not a huge fan and would probably rather have had a strong mid major coach that recruits to his system and actually runs an offense. With that being said no one SJU was going to be able to hire was going to recruit with Lavin at SJU!

We head into the coming season with a potential starting lineup of:  C:  The leading shotblocker in Division 1 in 2012.  PF:  A JC All American, a member of the Dominican National Team.   SF:  The reigning Big East Rookie of the Year.  SG:  The #7 scorer in the Big East in 2012, #3 scorer in the Big East in 2013.  PG:  The #17 frosh prospect in the country.    Off the bench we will have a former JC All American - a proven 9+ scorer and 6 reb Big East Player  at the post, a former Top 50 recruit at the Forward spot who led the Johnnies in Assists last year and was 18th in the Big East in Rebounding, a former top 50 recruit at the guard spot and a  two year starter also at guard who was last years 3rd leading scorer and 2nd leading assist man.  We return 3 of the top 18 rebounders in last years Big East, and 2 of the top 12 scorers.   AND we have 4 other potential "situational" contributors in Jones (bulk & strength), Balamou (athleticism), & Hooper and Bourgault (shooting).

No - I don't believe any other coach AVAILABLE at the time of the Lavin hire would have had SJU in this position heading into this season.

Top grade from me. Going into year 4 we loaded. Coach has brought in the kind of players we have not had here in years, + depth. Most of us see 3 NBA types without Harrison or Pointer. My preference there would be Pointer, but I know others see it different. Of course my vote based on me thinking this a no excuse can't miss team. I remember back a ways a poster on the boards thought it best we join the MAAC and play all our games at the Carn. He thought thats where a nice little mom and pop belonged.

If Lavin had fallen flat on his face the book would be closed on SJBB.   It was seen as a borderline deadend job to begin with, if he had failed too, then no reasonable coach or recruit would have considered our program for a long long time.   It would have been the final nail in the program's coffin.

Now, the perception of the program has changed.  Even if the unfortunate occurs and coach can't get us out of the 1st round of the NCAA over the next 3-4 years; there will be a line of coaches willing to come in and replace him.   Recruits will still be interested in St Johns.    life will at least go on

Good hire, considering how much program had fallen. As I have often said, this is key year for SL to evidence capacity to get StJ to a consistently competitive level. Dancing this year, continuing to recruit at a high level and being capable of making noise in NCAA tourney more often than not seem reasonable expectations.

 " good hire"...  that wasn't a choice?   

 I don't understand how people are hedging on the question because they need to see what happens next year.   It's a simple question.. after 3 years how do you grade Lavin?... Not after 4 or 5 years...  Based on what he and the program accomplished so far. 

 Like Desco said,  a review at work.  Imagine your boss says I'm going to hold off on your yearly bonus ( grade) because it depends what you do next year..

  I think Foad summed it up the best.....

Getting to a point where narrowly missing the NCAAs, and winning a game in the NIT, is a failed season, shows you how much he's changed our own perceptions of the team.    5 years ago that would have been a relatively successful season, and lauded as progress.

Quote from: paultzman on June 04, 2013, 12:42:54 PM

Good hire, considering how much program had fallen. As I have often said, this is key year for SL to evidence capacity to get StJ to a consistently competitive level. Dancing this year, continuing to recruit at a high level and being capable of making noise in NCAA tourney more often than not seem reasonable expectations.

 " good hire"...  that wasn't a choice?   

 I don't understand how people are hedging on the question because they need to see what happens next year.   It's a simple question.. after 3 years how do you grade Lavin?... Not after 4 or 5 years...  Based on what he and the program accomplished so far. 

 Like Desco said,  a review at work.  Imagine your boss says I'm going to hold off on your yearly bonus ( grade) because it depends what you do next year..

  I think Foad summed it up the best.....

"Successful"- Feel better now "Keeper of the Flame"

Quote from: boo3 on June 04, 2013, 04:04:22 PM

Quote from: paultzman on June 04, 2013, 12:42:54 PM

Good hire, considering how much program had fallen. As I have often said, this is key year for SL to evidence capacity to get StJ to a consistently competitive level. Dancing this year, continuing to recruit at a high level and being capable of making noise in NCAA tourney more often than not seem reasonable expectations.

 " good hire"...  that wasn't a choice?   

 I don't understand how people are hedging on the question because they need to see what happens next year.   It's a simple question.. after 3 years how do you grade Lavin?... Not after 4 or 5 years...  Based on what he and the program accomplished so far. 

 Like Desco said,  a review at work.  Imagine your boss says I'm going to hold off on your yearly bonus ( grade) because it depends what you do next year..

  I think Foad summed it up the best.....

"Successful"- Feel better now "Keeper of the Flame"

  That little "winky" thing means I'm just kidding...

 "Keeper of the Flame"  what does that mean?    Not sure where to go with that one..  Must be something bad.  oh no.

Lavin-1st 3 seasons
1 NCAA tourney game
1 NIT appearance
1 missed season

Jarvis
1 Elite 8
1 2nd round NCAA
1 under .500 season

Mahoney
1 second round NCAA
2 terrible seasons

Fran
1 under .500 season
1 NCAA tourney game
 Fired

If you judge according to what he has done so far he is behind Jarvis and on Fran, Mahoney level. So basically it does not tell us much.

Excellent hire.  Lavin had a gameplan for SJU.  He had some bad luck, a year off with cancer and in his 4th season has us with one of the most talented rosters around.  All that is left it to see the wins and tourney appearances which I think is just a matter of time. 

I think our offense will look MUCH better with Branch healthy and a very talented Rysheed Jordan stepping in and getting people the ball.   Let's face it, an offense looks better with Peyton Manning than it does with Mark Sanchez.  Point Guard is a huge key to what we are looking to see.  I think Rysheed and Branch will make Lavin's "O" look a lot better than with Greene running it.  Phil needs to work on his jumper and look to grab minutes purely as a backup SG to D'Lo at this point. 

Lavin hire will pay greater dividends moving forward in the new league and with conferences fawning over NYC and MSG.

Lavin-1st 3 seasons
1 NCAA tourney game
1 NIT appearance
1 missed season

Jarvis
1 Elite 8
1 2nd round NCAA
1 under .500 season

Mahoney
1 second round NCAA
2 terrible seasons

Fran
1 under .500 season
1 NCAA tourney game
 Fired

If you judge according to what he has done so far he is behind Jarvis and on Fran, Mahoney level. So basically it does not tell us much.

You left out "life threading disease" in his first three years.  A bit more than a small detail, no?

Now, the perception of the program has changed.  Even if the unfortunate occurs and coach can't get us out of the 1st round of the NCAA over the next 3-4 years; there will be a line of coaches willing to come in and replace him.   Recruits will still be interested in St Johns.    life will at least go on

Perhaps. The other POV is that Saint John's is where coached come to die. Mahoney, Fran, Jarvis, and Norm all came her on the come. Each failed spectacularly. Lavin is one year away from joining them. If we win 15 games next year and Lavin were to leave we'd be lucky if Cluess deigned to take an interview.

missed season pretty much recaps it. That season doesn't count for him, not sure coach's or players would put cancer on the back of their card. Let me check.......

Nope Andres Gallarga card just indicates DID NOT PLAY. Which makes sense since kids would then know he had 375 homers 1400 rbi's and one cancer. Pretty morbid but whatever floats your boat....

BTW I did those Gallaraga stats off top of my head, but I was really close 399 HR 1425 RBI. Pretty impressive job by me If I do say so myself

You left out "life threading disease" in his first three years.  A bit more than a small detail, no?

His second year, not his first three; and he coached his third year. The 10 year survival rate for prostate cancer is 98 percent, so the threat to his life was negligible. Perhaps we can agree that he had an unpleasant illness that no one wishes to contract and that he was fortunate to have an excellent chance for recovery. Personally I prefer the my father died card to the cancer card.

Excellent hire.  Lavin had a gameplan for SJU.  He had some bad luck, a year off with cancer and in his 4th season has us with one of the most talented rosters around.  All that is left it to see the wins and tourney appearances which I think is just a matter of time. 

I think our offense will look MUCH better with Branch healthy and a very talented Rysheed Jordan stepping in and getting people the ball.   Let's face it, an offense looks better with Peyton Manning than it does with Mark Sanchez.  Point Guard is a huge key to what we are looking to see.  I think Rysheed and Branch will make Lavin's "O" look a lot better than with Greene running it.  Phil needs to work on his jumper and look to grab minutes purely as a backup SG to D'Lo at this point. 

Lavin hire will pay greater dividends moving forward in the new league and with conferences fawning over NYC and MSG.

Yes to all above.

Quote from: desco80 on June 04, 2013, 03:57:05 PM

Now, the perception of the program has changed.  Even if the unfortunate occurs and coach can't get us out of the 1st round of the NCAA over the next 3-4 years; there will be a line of coaches willing to come in and replace him.   Recruits will still be interested in St Johns.    life will at least go on

Perhaps. The other POV is that Saint John's is where coached come to die. Mahoney, Fran, Jarvis, and Norm all came her on the come. Each failed spectacularly. Lavin is one year away from joining them. If we win 15 games next year and Lavin were to leave we'd be lucky if Cluess deigned to take an interview.

Its certainly possible that is the narrative a year from now, but if the deficiencies that some of us pericieve in coach are true; then I've got to believe there are coaches out there who will look at the situation, which could include a potentially more athletics-friendly President, and say "Thats not a bad gig.  ill get a competitive salary at $1m+.  I could win 20 games in the first year with the kind of talent he's leaving me.  There's no pressure to win now.  And, he's softened the recruiting landscape up for me; kids are willing to go to St. John's again."
Basically, I'm pretty sure there are coaches who think if they got the keys to this ship they could do much more with it than Lavin has.   
Could they actually? Separate argument.   

Its certainly possible that is the narrative a year from now, but if the deficiencies that some of us pericieve in coach are true; then I've got to believe there are coaches out there who will look at the situation, which could include a potentially more athletics-friendly President, and say "Thats not a bad gig.  ill get a competitive salary at $1m+.  I could win 20 games in the first year with the kind of talent he's leaving me.  There's no pressure to win now.  And, he's softened the recruiting landscape up for me; kids are willing to go to St. John's again."
Basically, I'm pretty sure there are coaches who think if they got the keys to this ship they could do much more with it than Lavin has.   
Could they actually? Separate argument.

I might agree if the Big East is what it was. It isn't. It's about what? The 5th best conference in the country? (ACC, Big 10, Big 12, SEC, Pac 12.) Post a Lavin failure SJ is an attractive job for someone looking to move up to a job that gives him a shot at a better job or for someone who's fallen from grace. I shudder to think.   

Quote from: desco80 on June 04, 2013, 05:00:30 PM

Its certainly possible that is the narrative a year from now, but if the deficiencies that some of us pericieve in coach are true; then I've got to believe there are coaches out there who will look at the situation, which could include a potentially more athletics-friendly President, and say "Thats not a bad gig.  ill get a competitive salary at $1m+.  I could win 20 games in the first year with the kind of talent he's leaving me.  There's no pressure to win now.  And, he's softened the recruiting landscape up for me; kids are willing to go to St. John's again."
Basically, I'm pretty sure there are coaches who think if they got the keys to this ship they could do much more with it than Lavin has.   
Could they actually? Separate argument.

I might agree if the Big East is what it was. It isn't. It's about what? The 5th best conference in the country? (ACC, Big 10, Big 12, SEC, Pac 12.) Post a Lavin failure SJ is an attractive job for someone looking to move up to a job that gives him a shot at a better job or for someone who's fallen from grace. I shudder to think.   

In terms of basketball conferences the only ones that are for sure ahead of us are the ACC and the B10 IMO. The other three can be debated but I wouldn't put us behind the rest.

Fun, your point is well taken.   Lavin has done more than I expected too, but if he were to fail in the coming years we're not the kind of stable program that will draw enormous interest.

With that said, I actually think the new league is a relatively solid group.  I've never fully understood why it matters if your conference is 2nd, 3rd, or 5th, but for the sake of the argument I think the biggest knock on the new Big East is that it doesn't have a regular championship contender.   The new BE has a number of solid programs that can maintain a moderate level of success and will have adequate resources (especially if St Johns is truly revived); what the league lacks though is a UCLA, Kentucky, Duke, Indiana/Michigan State.   The closest thing they'll have is Georgetown, and that's a stretch. 

But again, as long as my team is doing well, I'm not going to lose any sleep over the fact that the ACC and Big10 collectively have a better conference. 
= sorry for taking this thread off-topic