SJU - Deep Tourney run..?

Quote from: Poison on August 12, 2013, 01:21:11 AM

Quote from: crgreen on August 11, 2013, 02:44:15 PM

Quote from: hnk on August 11, 2013, 12:45:15 PM

Rebounding?

Gift and Sanchez.  We return literally all of our rebounding, and Gift's 2012 total of 191 boards would have been 2nd to Obekpa's 204 last season.   Expecting the 6'9 JC all america Sanchez to add an additional 5 or more a game is MORE than likely as well.   

I think Gift could be a decent role player, but if we're counting on him to rebound, we are in deep sh*t. The guy is strong, intelligent and hard working, but he has zero instinct for rebounding the ball. We should start him against Bucknell, but barring dramatic improvement, he shoukd be getting 10-15 minutes per game.

Or we could start him against Kentucky - against whom he had 10 boards.   Or against Pitt, where he had 12 boards.  Rutgers where he had 8.   Detroit where he had 8.   Marquette, WVU where he had 7.   Also had 5 or more against Duke, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Georgetown, South Florida.   (That's ommitting the 8 or more he had against "lesser" opponents like Lehigh, Fordham, UMBC, Wm&Mary, Texas-Pan American).

I get you don't like his "instincts" - but his production in an area we were weak last season is in black and white.

Not to mention he has had a year of practice to work on it more and this year we finally have a true big man coach.

Quote from: Poison on August 12, 2013, 01:21:11 AM

Quote from: crgreen on August 11, 2013, 02:44:15 PM

Quote from: hnk on August 11, 2013, 12:45:15 PM

Rebounding?

Gift and Sanchez.  We return literally all of our rebounding, and Gift's 2012 total of 191 boards would have been 2nd to Obekpa's 204 last season.   Expecting the 6'9 JC all america Sanchez to add an additional 5 or more a game is MORE than likely as well.   

I think Gift could be a decent role player, but if we're counting on him to rebound, we are in deep sh*t. The guy is strong, intelligent and hard working, but he has zero instinct for rebounding the ball. We should start him against Bucknell, but barring dramatic improvement, he shoukd be getting 10-15 minutes per game.

Or we could start him against Kentucky - against whom he had 10 boards.   Or against Pitt, where he had 12 boards.  Rutgers where he had 8.   Detroit where he had 8.   Marquette, WVU where he had 7.   Also had 5 or more against Duke, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Georgetown, South Florida.   (That's ommitting the 8 or more he had against "lesser" opponents like Lehigh, Fordham, UMBC, Wm&Mary, Texas-Pan American).

I get you don't like his "instincts" - but his production in an area we were weak last season is in black and white.

I'm sorry CR, but I watched all of those games, and I'm not buying it. Are you actually telling me that he rebounded well against SU? Do you remember what Fab Melo did to him?

Lehigh, Fordham, UMBC, he was terrific. That is the level of competition he should have signed on to play at. In the BE, he was lost. I'm hoping, like many of us are, that he has used this time to become more familiar with this level of Basketball.

Guys can improve especially a Juco headed into his senior year. (And a 5th year at that) But to point to BE games where he excelled in blowout losses is silly. A lot of people bring up the Kentucky game as an example of Gift coming to play. Did you watch that game? He started really taking it to them when we were down by 35. Great.

For a lot of reasons, the team must put it together this season. Word is out that SJU is stocked with talented, experienced players, and with Jordan and Sanchez giving us two desperately needed pieces, there are no more excuses. If the team doesn't do much better this season, I think Lavin's perceived credibility as a big time college coach takes a serious hit. Lavin himself has often said this year would be the year we would see the benefits of what he has been building materialize. Maybe Whitesell will be the difference, or maybe another year's maturity will be the catalyst,  or maybe Jordan/Sanchez are the spark plugs we needed. Whatever the reason, there will be no more excuses for failure.

This is right on.  On paper, this is a team that at the very least should make it to the NCAA Tournament.  You have depth at both the guard position (Branch, Jordan, Harrision, Greene) and forward/center position (Pointer, Sampson, Sanchez, GG, Obekpa).  You have your deep threats (Hooper, Bourgault).  And now we've added an assistant coach who is well known for his X's and O's ability.

With all that, I think it would be a hell of a letdown if this team didn't crack the Top 25 at some point this season.  You have the talent to do it.

Quote from: crgreen on August 12, 2013, 07:23:14 AM

Quote from: Poison on August 12, 2013, 01:21:11 AM

Quote from: crgreen on August 11, 2013, 02:44:15 PM

Quote from: hnk on August 11, 2013, 12:45:15 PM

Rebounding?

Gift and Sanchez.  We return literally all of our rebounding, and Gift's 2012 total of 191 boards would have been 2nd to Obekpa's 204 last season.   Expecting the 6'9 JC all america Sanchez to add an additional 5 or more a game is MORE than likely as well.   

I think Gift could be a decent role player, but if we're counting on him to rebound, we are in deep sh*t. The guy is strong, intelligent and hard working, but he has zero instinct for rebounding the ball. We should start him against Bucknell, but barring dramatic improvement, he shoukd be getting 10-15 minutes per game.

Or we could start him against Kentucky - against whom he had 10 boards.   Or against Pitt, where he had 12 boards.  Rutgers where he had 8.   Detroit where he had 8.   Marquette, WVU where he had 7.   Also had 5 or more against Duke, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Georgetown, South Florida.   (That's ommitting the 8 or more he had against "lesser" opponents like Lehigh, Fordham, UMBC, Wm&Mary, Texas-Pan American).

I get you don't like his "instincts" - but his production in an area we were weak last season is in black and white.

I'm sorry CR, but I watched all of those games, and I'm not buying it. Are you actually telling me that he rebounded well against SU? Do you remember what Fab Melo did to him?

Lehigh, Fordham, UMBC, he was terrific. That is the level of competition he should have signed on to play at. In the BE, he was lost. I'm hoping, like many of us are, that he has used this time to become more familiar with this level of Basketball.

Guys can improve especially a Juco headed into his senior year. (And a 5th year at that) But to point to BE games where he excelled in blowout losses is silly. A lot of people bring up the Kentucky game as an example of Gift coming to play. Did you watch that game? He started really taking it to them when we were down by 35. Great.

We've been down this road before..
Poison is right.  It couldn't be more simple than that.
If you are the only center on the team, (a team of just 6 scholarship players - all freshmen), and you play 30mins a game; it would be embarrassing not to average 5 rebounds a game.   
5 rebs a game under those conditions don't really tell us anything about his rebounding ability.  It just confirms that he has limbs and a pulse.   

Could GG help us?  Sure. And I hope he does.   But do I know that he's a solid D1 rebounder based on that 2011 season?  No, I can't draw that conclusion.  Regardless of how many times we underline, bold, or supersize the font, his 5 rebounds a game do not impress me as much as some posters apparently think they should.   And it's hardly supportive of your argument to continually cherry pick the 3 good games he had and throw them in our faces.
For every Kentucky or Pitt game, I could point out that he had 1 REBOUND IN 32 MINS AGAINST VILLANOVA!!!
or the slightly more impressive 2 REBOUNDS IN 30 MINUTES AGAINST ARIZONA!

We shouldn't be having this discussion, gift should have played a role last year. We could have used him. We should have a new juco big man who is a better rebounder this year. Lavin has done a great job recruiting and he should be prasied. Redshirting gift was a mistake. He was much more valuabnle on last years team. On a deep team he doesn't play for the simple reason is that he isn't good.

I agree, with hindsight, that redshirting Gift was a mistake.  I think it was done with the belief that Sanchez was gonna be allowed to play.  It didn't work out that way and by the time the picture became clear, it would have been a waste to play him less than half the season.  Of course, that is all speculation on my part.

I agree, with hindsight, that redshirting Gift was a mistake.  I think it was done with the belief that Sanchez was gonna be allowed to play.  It didn't work out that way and by the time the picture became clear, it would have been a waste to play him less than half the season.  Of course, that is all speculation on my part.

We could have used him last year but he wasn't pushing us to be an ncaa team. He is more useful this year as a back up on a potential ncaa team IMO.

I agree, with hindsight, that redshirting Gift was a mistake.  I think it was done with the belief that Sanchez was gonna be allowed to play.  It didn't work out that way and by the time the picture became clear, it would have been a waste to play him less than half the season.  Of course, that is all speculation on my part.

Disagree.  Having Sanchez and GG back with a year under their belts is the best we could have hoped for.  Last season had a much lower ceiling than what this team will see the next 2-3 years.

with or without god's gift, last year had a low ceiling. this is the year we'll make some noise. god's gift can only help.

we're better than we were in year one.  that team would have made noise if kennedy stayed healthy.  we had no depth and the selection committee stuck it to us.

better players and real depth equals deep runs.

Quote from: simplyred on August 12, 2013, 05:01:15 PM

I agree, with hindsight, that redshirting Gift was a mistake.  I think it was done with the belief that Sanchez was gonna be allowed to play.  It didn't work out that way and by the time the picture became clear, it would have been a waste to play him less than half the season.  Of course, that is all speculation on my part.

Disagree.  Having Sanchez and GG back with a year under their belts is the best we could have hoped for.  Last season had a much lower ceiling than what this team will see the next 2-3 years.

I don't disagree that it will be great to have them together but last year we definitely could have used some beef down low.  Gift could have helpd us get a couple more wins.  I think he could have been the difference as far as getting a bid.

i bet jones and felix are both redshirted this year.

i bet jones and felix are both redshirted this year.

I think it is one or the other. Don't think he'll do both.

i bet jones and felix are both redshirted this year.

I agree. That or they'll be wanting out by Christmas.

I didn't make my point clear enough. We could have used gift last year. Also he would have exhausted his eligibility and we could have gotten a better juco forward, who is bigger and could rebound. Last year useful. This year 9th man

i bet jones and felix are both redshirted this year.

What will be the reasoning to randomly do that..?

I didn't make my point clear enough. We could have used gift last year. Also he would have exhausted his eligibility and we could have gotten a better juco forward, who is bigger and could rebound. Last year useful. This year 9th man

Who is this bigger and better Juco forward we could have gotten?

Quote from: redmen4life on August 12, 2013, 10:40:40 PM

i bet jones and felix are both redshirted this year.

What will be the reasoning to randomly do that..?

not random.  they were up for consideration last year for redshirts.  too many bodies this year and they'd get little, if any PT.  may be best for them.

Quote from: pmg911 on August 13, 2013, 03:43:49 PM

Quote from: redmen4life on August 12, 2013, 10:40:40 PM

i bet jones and felix are both redshirted this year.

What will be the reasoning to randomly do that..?

not random.  they were up for consideration last year for redshirts.  too many bodies this year and they'd get little, if any PT.  may be best for them.

I think Jones' choice to redshirt might depend on whether or not Gift has improved. If he's got a lot of guys ahead of him, maybe it's a good idea. We know we're losing Sanchez. Balamou is the best free throw shooter we've had in years. I'd like him out there at the end of games.

Quote from: pmg911 on August 13, 2013, 03:43:49 PM

Quote from: redmen4life on August 12, 2013, 10:40:40 PM

i bet jones and felix are both redshirted this year.

What will be the reasoning to randomly do that..?

not random.  they were up for consideration last year for redshirts.  too many bodies this year and they'd get little, if any PT.  may be best for them.

Maybe I am not understanding the rules correctly but you can red shirt with out a legitimate reason..?

Quote from: redmen4life on August 13, 2013, 03:52:07 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on August 13, 2013, 03:43:49 PM

Quote from: redmen4life on August 12, 2013, 10:40:40 PM

i bet jones and felix are both redshirted this year.

What will be the reasoning to randomly do that..?

not random.  they were up for consideration last year for redshirts.  too many bodies this year and they'd get little, if any PT.  may be best for them.

Maybe I am not understanding the rules correctly but you can red shirt with out a legitimate reason..?

Yup no reason needed. You have 5 years to play 4.