BE HONEST

I just realized something. You are only 28 and still look at SJU as some kind of National basketball powerhouse? That kind of crazy talk is really only reserved for those of us that actually watched Mullin and Berry play. For me that misguided notion was beaten out of me sometime during the last decade. So assuming you started following the team when you were 7 or so as I did, all you have to show for that is Jarvis' first two teams, the Hatten year, the Hardy year and 17 years of suck. 

Strangely, I also wasn't alive for World War II and yet I have a pretty fair grasp of how that went too

RE: getting the misguided notion beaten out of you - I guess I'm just more resilient than you are? 

Some notable schools with less wins than us - UCLA (though in 12 fewer years), Indiana, Notre Dame, Louisville. 
That being said, I am thinking we must have differing opinions on how to judge national powers.  I look mostly at the overall history of a school, taking into account current situations, whereas you look at strictly the last 10 years. 
ALL HAIL NATIONAL POWERS GEORGE MASON, BUTLER, VCU, FLORIDA GULF COAST, AND LONG BEACH STATE.   

Even putting aside the misguided notion that SJU is on some much higher plane of college basketball than SHU, that whole argument that it is ok for SHU but not us doesn't match history. Programs like Kansas, Kentucky, Duke(according to Fun, don't want my buddy Tha Kid to be mad at me as he used to be my occasional drinking buddy ) have all pulled similar stunts. Maybe this is the sort of thing you have to do for the right player in order to become elite

That was the entire quote. It was a poorly constructed post so I will for give you misquoting me.
What I meant was:
 1. Even putting aside the whole argument that SJU was better than SHU
2. The whole argument that it is ok for SHU and not SJU doesn't make any sense historically
3. It doesn't make any sense because much better programs than SJU has done this kind of shady recruiting  i.e.. Kentucky, Kansas, etc.

Again poorly constructed but in multiple posts I referenced last 10 years
 

I wouldn't want to misquote you again, so let me make sure I have this straight.  It would be ok for us to do shady things like fire a good coach for another coach we don't actually want in order to get a top25 recruit to come here - because Kentucky would do it?  No disrespect to Kentucky but that school has done A LOT of things that I pray we never do (see Rupp, Adolph).  I would like to think we as a University are above that, and want our head coach to reflect that.  Of course, there have been exceptions to this concept (see Jarvis, Mike) but as a whole I would like to keep the misguided notion that we are, in fact, above doing things like that.

Quote from: we are sju on September 21, 2013, 08:03:40 PM

Even putting aside the misguided notion that SJU is on some much higher plane of college basketball than SHU, that whole argument that it is ok for SHU but not us doesn't match history. Programs like Kansas, Kentucky, Duke(according to Fun, don't want my buddy Tha Kid to be mad at me as he used to be my occasional drinking buddy ) have all pulled similar stunts. Maybe this is the sort of thing you have to do for the right player in order to become elite

That was the entire quote. It was a poorly constructed post so I will for give you misquoting me.
What I meant was:
 1. Even putting aside the whole argument that SJU was better than SHU
2. The whole argument that it is ok for SHU and not SJU doesn't make any sense historically
3. It doesn't make any sense because much better programs than SJU has done this kind of shady recruiting  i.e.. Kentucky, Kansas, etc.

Again poorly constructed but in multiple posts I referenced last 10 years
 

I wouldn't want to misquote you again, so let me make sure I have this straight.  It would be ok for us to do shady things like fire a good coach for another coach we don't actually want in order to get a top25 recruit to come here - because Kentucky would do it?  No disrespect to Kentucky but that school has done A LOT of things that I pray we never do (see Rupp, Adolph).  I would like to think we as a University are above that, and want our head coach to reflect that.  Of course, there have been exceptions to this concept (see Jarvis, Mike) but as a whole I would like to keep the misguided notion that we are, in fact, above doing things like that.

Kid is top 10 no. Big difference. And I never said that it is ok. I said I would be ok with it. Many times. I also feel if this went down with us most would either look the other way or praise Morton as a good hire. My point was some were saying it is ok for SHU because they feel they are on a lower level than us. They seem to feel that it would not be ok for us because the program is in such good shape. That is when I threw out much better programs than us that have done similar things that SHU did. College basketball is a business and a sleazy one at that. The notion of the scholar athlete is pretty ridiculous. That is why IMO I would be ok with us doing what SHU did. If other people are not I understand. My only issues were people saying it was ok for SHU and not us and my doubts that if we had did this many of you would have complained about it.

Quote from: LoganK on September 22, 2013, 08:35:43 AM

Quote from: we are sju on September 21, 2013, 08:03:40 PM

Even putting aside the misguided notion that SJU is on some much higher plane of college basketball than SHU, that whole argument that it is ok for SHU but not us doesn't match history. Programs like Kansas, Kentucky, Duke(according to Fun, don't want my buddy Tha Kid to be mad at me as he used to be my occasional drinking buddy ) have all pulled similar stunts. Maybe this is the sort of thing you have to do for the right player in order to become elite

That was the entire quote. It was a poorly constructed post so I will for give you misquoting me.
What I meant was:
 1. Even putting aside the whole argument that SJU was better than SHU
2. The whole argument that it is ok for SHU and not SJU doesn't make any sense historically
3. It doesn't make any sense because much better programs than SJU has done this kind of shady recruiting  i.e.. Kentucky, Kansas, etc.

Again poorly constructed but in multiple posts I referenced last 10 years
 

I wouldn't want to misquote you again, so let me make sure I have this straight.  It would be ok for us to do shady things like fire a good coach for another coach we don't actually want in order to get a top25 recruit to come here - because Kentucky would do it?  No disrespect to Kentucky but that school has done A LOT of things that I pray we never do (see Rupp, Adolph).  I would like to think we as a University are above that, and want our head coach to reflect that.  Of course, there have been exceptions to this concept (see Jarvis, Mike) but as a whole I would like to keep the misguided notion that we are, in fact, above doing things like that.

Kid is top 10 no. Big difference. And I never said that it is ok. I said I would be ok with it. Many times. I also feel if this went down with us most would either look the other way or praise Morton as a good hire. My point was some were saying it is ok for SHU because they feel they are on a lower level than us. They seem to feel that it would not be ok for us because the program is in such good shape. That is when I threw out much better programs than us that have done similar things that SHU did. College basketball is a business and a sleazy one at that. The notion of the scholar athlete is pretty ridiculous. That is why IMO I would be ok with us doing what SHU did. If other people are not I understand. My only issues were people saying it was ok for SHU and not us and my doubts that if we had did this many of you would have complained about it.

14th on Rivals and 35th on ESPN.

Tiny would not be praised as a good hire. He has been killed on this board even before he lobbied for the job after Dunlap left.

Do you also think Lavin should have promised him he would be the focal point and guaranteed starter? I'm sure that would go over well with the rest of our team (Rysheed, Dlo, Jakarr).

I wish we got Whitehead I really do. But, I don't think you add someone like Tiny who Lavin obviously doesn't want on the staff, just to get a recruit. Lavin doesn't play that game and I'm glad he doesn't.

Quote from: we are sju on September 22, 2013, 10:12:53 AM

Quote from: LoganK on September 22, 2013, 08:35:43 AM

Quote from: we are sju on September 21, 2013, 08:03:40 PM

Even putting aside the misguided notion that SJU is on some much higher plane of college basketball than SHU, that whole argument that it is ok for SHU but not us doesn't match history. Programs like Kansas, Kentucky, Duke(according to Fun, don't want my buddy Tha Kid to be mad at me as he used to be my occasional drinking buddy ) have all pulled similar stunts. Maybe this is the sort of thing you have to do for the right player in order to become elite

That was the entire quote. It was a poorly constructed post so I will for give you misquoting me.
What I meant was:
 1. Even putting aside the whole argument that SJU was better than SHU
2. The whole argument that it is ok for SHU and not SJU doesn't make any sense historically
3. It doesn't make any sense because much better programs than SJU has done this kind of shady recruiting  i.e.. Kentucky, Kansas, etc.

Again poorly constructed but in multiple posts I referenced last 10 years
 

I wouldn't want to misquote you again, so let me make sure I have this straight.  It would be ok for us to do shady things like fire a good coach for another coach we don't actually want in order to get a top25 recruit to come here - because Kentucky would do it?  No disrespect to Kentucky but that school has done A LOT of things that I pray we never do (see Rupp, Adolph).  I would like to think we as a University are above that, and want our head coach to reflect that.  Of course, there have been exceptions to this concept (see Jarvis, Mike) but as a whole I would like to keep the misguided notion that we are, in fact, above doing things like that.

Kid is top 10 no. Big difference. And I never said that it is ok. I said I would be ok with it. Many times. I also feel if this went down with us most would either look the other way or praise Morton as a good hire. My point was some were saying it is ok for SHU because they feel they are on a lower level than us. They seem to feel that it would not be ok for us because the program is in such good shape. That is when I threw out much better programs than us that have done similar things that SHU did. College basketball is a business and a sleazy one at that. The notion of the scholar athlete is pretty ridiculous. That is why IMO I would be ok with us doing what SHU did. If other people are not I understand. My only issues were people saying it was ok for SHU and not us and my doubts that if we had did this many of you would have complained about it.

14th on Rivals and 35th on ESPN.

Tiny would not be praised as a good hire. He has been killed on this board even before he lobbied for the job after Dunlap left.

Do you also think Lavin should have promised him he would be the focal point and guaranteed starter? I'm sure that would go over well with the rest of our team (Rysheed, Dlo, Jakarr).

I wish we got Whitehead I really do. But, I don't think you add someone like Tiny who Lavin obviously doesn't want on the staff, just to get a recruit. Lavin doesn't play that game and I'm glad he doesn't.

Again I am not trying to convince ANYONE OF ANYTHING. I PERSONALLY, if the kid is worth it would be ok with what SHU did. If you are not that is fine. Some people have posted that I have beaten this to death but then others are still posting as if I am criticizing Lavin or them for applauding Lavin for not pulling an SHU. I am just saying I would be ok with it but  believe a great many who have said they would not be ok would not kill Lavin if he did do it. Because he went to SHU however I won't be able to prove my theory unless some other kid with a similar situation comes along.

Do you also think Lavin should have promised him he would be the focal point and guaranteed starter? I'm sure that would go over well with the rest of our team (Rysheed, Dlo, Jakarr).

Team, shmeam. Promising a HS senior that he's be the focal point of the offense would be a stupid basketball decision. He's going to have three senior guards next year. Unless Whitehead is John Wall he's not going to be better than those guys. Lavin has spent three years getting ready to win, he's not going to jeopardize that now, especially since he's demonstrated that he can recruit with anyone in the country. He doesn't have to bribe kids (outside the normal bribe channels). Willard does, because he's a joke and SH is a laughing stock.

Great! The horse is dead, but some guys just like to regurgitate same opinion over and over. Prevalent malady in Waco I guess.

Sorry maybe you will like this post better
"Can't wait for the season to start"

Or speaking of dead horses an oldie but goodie:
"You said PJ Carlismo wanted to get back into college coaching, you suck Realfan".
I want to say there were about 1k of those on BEB by a certain poster

Quote from: we are sju on September 21, 2013, 08:03:40 PM

Even putting aside the misguided notion that SJU is on some much higher plane of college basketball than SHU, that whole argument that it is ok for SHU but not us doesn't match history. Programs like Kansas, Kentucky, Duke(according to Fun, don't want my buddy Tha Kid to be mad at me as he used to be my occasional drinking buddy ) have all pulled similar stunts. Maybe this is the sort of thing you have to do for the right player in order to become elite

That was the entire quote. It was a poorly constructed post so I will for give you misquoting me.
What I meant was:
 1. Even putting aside the whole argument that SJU was better than SHU
2. The whole argument that it is ok for SHU and not SJU doesn't make any sense historically
3. It doesn't make any sense because much better programs than SJU has done this kind of shady recruiting  i.e.. Kentucky, Kansas, etc.

Again poorly constructed but in multiple posts I referenced last 10 years
 

I wouldn't want to misquote you again, so let me make sure I have this straight.  It would be ok for us to do shady things like fire a good coach for another coach we don't actually want in order to get a top25 recruit to come here - because Kentucky would do it?  No disrespect to Kentucky but that school has done A LOT of things that I pray we never do (see Rupp, Adolph).  I would like to think we as a University are above that, and want our head coach to reflect that.  Of course, there have been exceptions to this concept (see Jarvis, Mike) but as a whole I would like to keep the misguided notion that we are, in fact, above doing things like that.

Amen

If we got a 5 star player from St. Anthony's in jersey and Bobby Hurley senior as an assistant I think the board would be very happy

If we got a 5 star player from St. Anthony's in jersey and Bobby Hurley senior as an assistant I think the board would be very happy

He would be a GREAT hire!

Hiring Tiny is legal, so there are worst things a program could do. It all depends on 1 How bad you need the recruit,2.How good is the coach? 3, Could an opening be made w/o dismissing a good coach. 4, does the coach fit in w/ the other coaches and program.

Hiring Tiny is legal, so there are worst things a program could do. It all depends on 1 How bad you need the recruit,2.How good is the coach? 3, Could an opening be made w/o dismissing a good coach. 4, does the coach fit in w/ the other coaches and program.

Good analysis.  Based on your criteria, we were right for not doing it.

Hiring Tiny is legal, so there are worst things a program could do. It all depends on 1 How bad you need the recruit,2.How good is the coach? 3, Could an opening be made w/o dismissing a good coach. 4, does the coach fit in w/ the other coaches and program.

Exactly...nothing wrong with what SHU did assuming they have (or expect to have) a coaching spot open - without throwing a qualified person under the bus...if that is their plan it will come back to bite them as IW will only be around for a year or so and whatever buzz they have created will be gone...

Look at our own situation...Lavin comes in..creates buzz...recruits well...but continued recruiting success will require some positive results...

Even with what SHU has recruited, while improved, they will not be a top 20 team

If we got a 5 star player from St. Anthony's in jersey and Bobby Hurley senior as an assistant I think the board would be very happy

I can only guess how many times a Bob Hurley, Jack Curran or Morgan Wootten was offered a college Asst Coaching job to bring one of their stars but these trult great coaches did not put their self interest before that of the many greats they coached

I think if Norm did this it would be considered aggressive and he is trying everything that is possible  to get this program going.

If Lavin did this in his first year it would be considered understandable because he is an outsider trying to make an historic college team relevant again an he is trying to get top recruits to go to SJU.

If Lavin did it now the perception would show panic and the team he personally recruited is not up to the task at hand to making to the tournament and bringing SJU on the big stage.

If this year is a complete disaster then almost anything legal to grey would be acceptable,  for we all become huge SJU soccer fans.

Quote from: we are sju on September 20, 2013, 04:27:07 PM

according to Fun

"According to the Times-Picayune's Josh Peter, in the summer of 2000 Vivian Harper, mother of Duke incoming freshman point guard Chris Duhon, moved from her home in Slidell, La., to a two-bedroom apartment in Durham, N.C. She was given a job at a firm called NCM Capital Management Company, a billion-dollar money management firm owned by a man named Maceo Sloan, among whose possessions is an autographed basketball signed by the 1991 Duke championship team, Coach K's first title squad. Workers at the firm say the job was never posted. They also allege that Walker was given a substantial raise within four months.

There's more. Peters also reports that Carlos Boozer Sr., the then-unemployed father of former Duke star Carlos Boozer, was given a job at GlaxoSmithKline, a pharmaceutical company owned by Robert Ingram, who is a close friend of Coach K's. In order to take the job, the elder Boozer relocated from Alaska."


The Boston Globe
April 6, 2003, Sunday ,
FIRST EDITION

And hence they deserved pelting with spit balls from the straws of Terps fans during the hotly contested '2000-2002 seasons.

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on September 21, 2013, 09:53:05 PM

I wanted Lance Stephenson.
I wanted Richie Parker.
I wanted Lamar Odom.

I'm no choir boy and under no illusion that I am.

Also under no illusion that the dirty, corrupt cesspool that is Ncaa basketball is anything other than what it is and always has been.  An exploitive, quasi professional basketball league where money is being made by everyone but the indentured servants.

Wouldn't have mattered one iota to me if in order to get top talent we first had to hire a street pimp.

"Same as it ever was"
- DB

Now if I could just get you to renounce your love of Patterson and Greene I would make you my top assistant when I take over for Lavin when he takes the Baylor job.

To be your assistant at a D1 program I'd renounce my love of Mary Poppins, Mother Theresa, Chris Mullin and the Easter bunny.  You should see me in action working a living room.

Quote from: Poison on September 21, 2013, 10:13:58 PM

Richie Parker. LOL. Who the hell is that?

The kid who forced an girl to fellate him in a stairwell at Manhattan Center H.S. He was definitely top 100, might have even been top 40.

One and the same.  Me thinks he wound up a Blackbird at LIU.