St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8

No, it's really not accurate because it's implying we were blown out. We weren't.

No, it's quite accurate. Because I'm not implying we were blown out, I'm saying we were blown out. Perhaps you didn't see the game and if you did clearly you didn't understand what was happening. We were down 20 in the first half, down 10 at the half, and down 11 at the end of the game. We never threatened Wisconsin, not once. They stomped on our heads for 10 minutes and coasted for 30. The one time it got vaguely close in the second half Ryan called a time out to remind his team what game was being played - which TO worked because Ryan is a pretty good coach and not an empty suit - out of which WU hit two threes. <Flush> If the game was played 10 times Wisconsin would have won it 11 times. It could not have been more one sided. It could not have been more of a laugher. Things could possibly have gone worse for SJ but barring an injury I don't see how. 

We outscored Maryland in the second half of the 92-60 loss in 2006. No doubt you were thrilled by that as well.

We scored 60 points against Maryland? Got there 5 minutes in and we were losing 35-1 or something. That was def the low point of the Norm era IMO. Could have sworn we lost 135-17. Felt that way anyway. Well I guess I didn't notice we won the 2nd half

This team will be fine if the staff and players can get on the same page on the defensive end.  It's not that complicated.  Play defense and rebound...

 For the first time in years I'm not concerned about the offense.

For the same reason that the fans writing the team off after one game are idiots for putting too much emphasis on one loss, I think its also a little premature to say the offense is out of the woods.   It's not as if we've had a string of 75+ pt outings.   
Too small of a sample size. 
But I do agree that the offense looks better so far.  And if I had a choice of emphasis it would be on the D.
Play better D and we'll be able to get out and run more.   Tough to push it when you're taking the ball out of the net.     

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 13, 2013, 01:47:42 PM

No, it's really not accurate because it's implying we were blown out. We weren't.

No, it's quite accurate. Because I'm not implying we were blown out, I'm saying we were blown out. Perhaps you didn't see the game and if you did clearly you didn't understand what was happening. We were down 20 in the first half, down 10 at the half, and down 11 at the end of the game. We never threatened Wisconsin, not once. They stomped on our heads for 10 minutes and coasted for 30. The one time it got vaguely close in the second half Ryan called a time out to remind his team what game was being played - which TO worked because Ryan is a pretty good coach and not an empty suit - out of which WU hit two threes. <Flush> If the game was played 10 times Wisconsin would have won it 11 times. It could not have been more one sided. It could not have been more of a laugher. Things could possibly have gone worse for SJ but barring an injury I don't see how. 

We outscored Maryland in the second half of the 92-60 loss in 2006. No doubt you were thrilled by that as well.

But what you are saying is just plain false. A blowout is when a team is never in the game, at least in the 2nd half. This game was under a 10 point game for a good portion of the second half, and was a 4 point game with 8 min left. We ended up losing by 11. Not a blowout. A couple of missed threes on their part could have changed the outcome. If this is a blowout, I'm curious what you call a game where a team loses by 15-25 points while never coming within striking distance.

Losing by 15-25 w/o coming in striking distance the whole game is called a Norm I believe.

Loosing by 15-25 w/o coming in striking distance the whole game is called a Norm I believe.

 

Quote from: boo3 on November 13, 2013, 12:22:57 PM

This team will be fine if the staff and players can get on the same page on the defensive end.  It's not that complicated.  Play defense and rebound...

 For the first time in years I'm not concerned about the offense.

For the same reason that the fans writing the team off after one game are idiots for putting too much emphasis on one loss, I think its also a little premature to say the offense is out of the woods.   It's not as if we've had a string of 75+ pt outings.   
Too small of a sample size. 
But I do agree that the offense looks better so far.  And if I had a choice of emphasis it would be on the D.
Play better D and we'll be able to get out and run more.   Tough to push it when you're taking the ball out of the net.     

 Last year our offense was all about Harrison. This year  we have Sampson with a year of experience, Sanchez, and the addition of PG Jordan. 

 These are my reasons why I think our offense will be much improved over last season. 

 I would be saying the same thing if we scored 65 against Wisco, because over the long term, the experience and injection of new talent will improve our scoring. 

 Nothing to do with the Wisco game.   So yeah, basing anything off one game in a 30 game season is foolish

Boo, Harrison scored 27 points and took 19 shots. That is not reliant?
As much as I enjoyed Sampson's dunkathon, I don't expect him to play like that every game.
I have no problem with the two combining for 48 points every game, just don't think it is feasible especially for Sampson.

If Jordan and Sanchez are in foul trouble every game, then , yes, we may have to rely a bit more on Harrison.  The offense will be more well rounded is my point.


You can disagree.  Harrison's damage was done when game was over for most part

Wait what, game was over? I am being told we won the 2nd half. Do we get a point for that btw like for a tie in hockey?

Again based on ONE game the only game we played, I thought it was the Harrison offense again. And yes if Harrison did not score in the 2nd half we would have lost by 25 and it would have been a blowout or a Norm, by anyone's definition.

 Um, yeah... I never made that argument... Don't drag me into that.   At no point did I ever think we were going to win the Wisco game while it was being played...for me, that means we were never in it...

Just to be clear.. It is MY OPINION, that the offense will be improved from an overall scoring standpoint.. Reasons being..  Focused and in shape Harrison, Sampson is one year more experienced and confident... The addition of Sanchez add a few different dimensions.. He can score , handle the ball, and pass, and last, but not least, Rysheed Jordan.. The highest ranked player Lavin has brought in is a legit point guard, who showed me, in his brief court time, that he can create his own shot and distribute the basketball..

 These factors, listed above, are why I believe the '13-'14 offense will be better than last seasons...    You may disagree,it's ok.  I won't be offended.

And yes if Harrison did not score in the 2nd half we would have lost by 25 and it would have been a blowout or a Norm, by anyone's definition.

And if Gasser didn't score 20, St Johns would've won easily.   
I never understand why people bother with the argument, "If X didn't score 30pts it would've been even worse!"   
No shit.  If the leading scorer didn't score as much the score would be different.  Wait, really?   You don't say.

In theory that all sounds good and hope it is true. MY only criticism was based on how we looked int the game we played. Much like you with the 2nd half win stuff, I am not in the season is doomed camp either. Just thought we reverted back to stand around and watch Harrison shoot offense.
And just for the record, with  any eye rolling issues aside I am a fan of Harrison and do not blame him for anything last year. In fact just thinks he needs help. If he gets it we will be fine. Three point shooting will be a season long problem however.

Quote-And if Gasser didn't score 20, St Johns would've won easily.   
I never understand why people bother with the argument, "If X didn't score 30pts it would've been even worse!"   
No shit.  If the leading scorer didn't score as much the score would be different.  Wait, really?   You don't

No, my point was to absolve Harrison of chucking which he has been accused of on these boards. For all the new toys Harrison had to shoot for us to keep the score respectable. That was my point

In theory that all sounds good and hope it is true. MY only criticism was based on how we looked int the game we played. Much like you with the 2nd half win stuff, I am not in the season is doomed camp either. Just thought we reverted back to stand around and watch Harrison shoot offense.
And just for the record, with  any eye rolling issues aside I am a fan of Harrison and do not blame him for anything last year. In fact just thinks he needs help. If he gets it we will be fine. Three point shooting will be a season long problem however.

  Yeah, I know you aren't in the "sky is falling" camp.. At least with you, you back your claims up with actual basketball talk..   I think Harrison will have a big year, but I think on the nights where he doesn't have it, we will be able to compete because of the others i mentioned.  Not a one man band anymore...

..that being said, If Sanchez and Jordan don't adjust on defense and continue to pick up ticky-tack fouls, we will be in trouble.  Those guys need to get as many minutes as possible. 

Quote from: Foad on November 13, 2013, 02:21:01 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 13, 2013, 01:47:42 PM

No, it's really not accurate because it's implying we were blown out. We weren't.

No, it's quite accurate. Because I'm not implying we were blown out, I'm saying we were blown out. Perhaps you didn't see the game and if you did clearly you didn't understand what was happening. We were down 20 in the first half, down 10 at the half, and down 11 at the end of the game. We never threatened Wisconsin, not once. They stomped on our heads for 10 minutes and coasted for 30. The one time it got vaguely close in the second half Ryan called a time out to remind his team what game was being played - which TO worked because Ryan is a pretty good coach and not an empty suit - out of which WU hit two threes. <Flush> If the game was played 10 times Wisconsin would have won it 11 times. It could not have been more one sided. It could not have been more of a laugher. Things could possibly have gone worse for SJ but barring an injury I don't see how. 

We outscored Maryland in the second half of the 92-60 loss in 2006. No doubt you were thrilled by that as well.

But what you are saying is just plain false. A blowout is when a team is never in the game, at least in the 2nd half. This game was under a 10 point game for a good portion of the second half, and was a 4 point game with 8 min left. We ended up losing by 11. Not a blowout. A couple of missed threes on their part could have changed the outcome. If this is a blowout, I'm curious what you call a game where a team loses by 15-25 points while never coming within striking distance.

My mistake, it was a real nail biter.

Just to be clear.. It is MY OPINION, that the offense will be improved from an overall scoring standpoint.. Reasons being..  Focused and in shape Harrison, Sampson is one year more experienced and confident... The addition of Sanchez add a few different dimensions.. He can score , handle the ball, and pass, and last, but not least, Rysheed Jordan.. The highest ranked player Lavin has brought in is a legit point guard, who showed me, in his brief court time, that he can create his own shot and distribute the basketball..

 These factors, listed above, are why I believe the '13-'14 offense will be better than last seasons...    You may disagree,it's ok.  I won't be offended.

There's a difference between the offense being improved because the individual players have improved and the offense being improved because the offensive scheme become more coherent. As one astute observer observed: "Regardless of its configuration the offense was the same stupid whatever it is as it was last year with marginally better scorers." The problem is that we don't have the personnel to compete with elite personnel and we don't a scheme (like say Michigan) that would allow our inferior personnel to compete at the highest level.

I don't expect any kind of offense to be implemented. My hope was for Lavin to recriuit a playmaker and a couple shooters to go with all the slasher types. If Jordan is a playmaker, we will be fine and a shooter short of doing real damge 

You bring up a great point Foad. 

In Lavins first season the offense looked very good when we were playing our best ball.  I hope the talent will help us execute better.