Coach Lavin on Rysheed

Quote from: Tha Kid on November 01, 2013, 09:04:17 AM

If you were a high school stud who is considering St. John's, would you be more likely to committ if A) the coach hypes you in the press, treats you like royalty publicly, and gets you on the NBA radar early or B) acts like this is the 1970s and freshmen are freshmen and should be on a freshmen team but since there is none well just not talk about you ?

Some of you guys are living in the Stone Age.  If a kid deserves the hype which it sounds like sheed does, he should get it especially because he's a freshman and that will effect recruiting.  And keeps him happy.  And gets people talking about the program which is always good. Wow do we have an old ass fan base sometimes...

Couple questions from an old ass fan:

Is there maybe a third way between the two ridiculous extremes you gave? Like maybe not hiding him , but letting him- and I'm just spitballing here- play a game before he sets high expectations for the kid?

If treating freshman like this is such a surefire way of landing kids, how come the Coach K's, Pitinos, Boeheims, etc don't do it?

I'm always amazed at the stuff people claim will affect the decisions of recruits to come to SJU. And as far as people talking about the program, I would argue the opposite...if Lavin continues to call some kid every year the greatest whatever he's ever coached, people will tune it out.

Couple answers for an old ass fan:

1.  Yes there probably is some middle ground that would be good...but probably not for a top 20 recruit if you want to keep getting top 20 recruits.

2.  We don't have the background of Duke, Louisville or Syracuse, who can get away with that stuff...that said, even Coach K changed his attitude when top frosh stopped being as interested.  Did you not hear Coach K drool over Kyrie all year even when he barely played?  Same will be this year for Jabari.  Coach K realized he has to "play the game" differently and does.  $yracu$e players have other incentive$.  Pitino's players have their way with waitresses at Chili's.  Oh sorry that was Pitino.  Well they run the 5 seconds or less offense?  Sorry, Pitino again.  They did win the title last year, didnt they?

3.  You find me 10 17 year old stud basketball players, I'll find you 9 who will eat up every ounce of buttering up and hype they get in the press.  Sadly, not all of these kids come from stable households and families who have instilled such confidence in them where hype may not be quite as big a deal (but even in those cases for many 17 year olds it still will).  When you are talking about kids who didnt grow up being told how great they were by parents or etc (except to try to get a piece of the action), I am sure it is probably really nice and personally satisfying for them to hear their Coach say that publicly about them from day 1.  It also hypes them early giving them the most attention early so its sure as hell an NBA scout wont miss them if they deserve every ounce of hype.  Big time programs get big time hype.  We dont have the W-L to deserve big time hype yet, so Lavin doing the marketing thing for a guy like Rysheed is a must.

Quote from: tnice on November 01, 2013, 01:49:35 PM

Quote from: Tha Kid on November 01, 2013, 09:04:17 AM

If you were a high school stud who is considering St. John's, would you be more likely to committ if A) the coach hypes you in the press, treats you like royalty publicly, and gets you on the NBA radar early or B) acts like this is the 1970s and freshmen are freshmen and should be on a freshmen team but since there is none well just not talk about you ?

Some of you guys are living in the Stone Age.  If a kid deserves the hype which it sounds like sheed does, he should get it especially because he's a freshman and that will effect recruiting.  And keeps him happy.  And gets people talking about the program which is always good. Wow do we have an old ass fan base sometimes...

Couple questions from an old ass fan:

Is there maybe a third way between the two ridiculous extremes you gave? Like maybe not hiding him , but letting him- and I'm just spitballing here- play a game before he sets high expectations for the kid?

If treating freshman like this is such a surefire way of landing kids, how come the Coach K's, Pitinos, Boeheims, etc don't do it?

I'm always amazed at the stuff people claim will affect the decisions of recruits to come to SJU. And as far as people talking about the program, I would argue the opposite...if Lavin continues to call some kid every year the greatest whatever he's ever coached, people will tune it out.

Couple answers for an old ass fan:

1.  Yes there probably is some middle ground that would be good...but probably not for a top 20 recruit if you want to keep getting top 20 recruits.

2.  We don't have the background of Duke, Louisville or Syracuse, who can get away with that stuff...that said, even Coach K changed his attitude when top frosh stopped being as interested.  Did you not hear Coach K drool over Kyrie all year even when he barely played?  Same will be this year for Jabari.  Coach K realized he has to "play the game" differently and does.  $yracu$e players have other incentive$.  Pitino's players have their way with waitresses at Chili's.  Oh sorry that was Pitino.  Well they run the 5 seconds or less offense?  Sorry, Pitino again.  They did win the title last year, didnt they?

3.  You find me 10 17 year old stud basketball players, I'll find you 9 who will eat up every ounce of buttering up and hype they get in the press.  Sadly, not all of these kids come from stable households and families who have instilled such confidence in them where hype may not be quite as big a deal (but even in those cases for many 17 year olds it still will).  When you are talking about kids who didnt grow up being told how great they were by parents or etc (except to try to get a piece of the action), I am sure it is probably really nice and personally satisfying for them to hear their Coach say that publicly about them from day 1.  It also hypes them early giving them the most attention early so its sure as hell an NBA scout wont miss them if they deserve every ounce of hype.  Big time programs get big time hype.  We dont have the W-L to deserve big time hype yet, so Lavin doing the marketing thing for a guy like Rysheed is a must.

Couple suggestions for a youngblood with reading comprehension issues:

The OP and the subject of the debate is whether Lavin should be hyping Rysheed BEFORE HE HAS EVEN PLAYED A GAME. If he looks good in the exhibition games and goes for 16 and 8 against Wisconsin, and Lavin wants to blow him to the media, rock on, no problem with that. First week of February, Lavs wants to call him the best freshman in the country, based on his play, go ahead. All I'm saying is before talking about him being the greatest anything, let him play a few games first. There's no upside to saying stuff like that before the season starts. The kid is a highly rated 6'4" point playing in the media capital of the world who's going to play practically every game of his career on TV...are you seriously arguing that he's not on the NBA radar, or that anything Lavs to the media says will affect that one bit??

I'm sorry,I have a tough time having a serious debate with  anyone who would say "When you are talking about kids who didn't grow up being told how great they were by parents or etc" in reference to highly ranked basketball recruits.  Or that Coach K doesn't get highly ranked recruits, or that he now slobbers over freshmen IN THE PRESEASON in order to try and get recruits.

This city is famous for overhyping basketball players. Not just St.John's, but all of them. How many basketball players in NYC have actually liked up to the hype over the last 25 years?

Mashburn? Marbury? Walker? Almost all of them wind up playing in the league as role players like Lamar Odom and Sebastian Telfair, or disappear into the night like Lenny Cooke. There are different reasons why a guy like Lopez couldn't hack it here. IMO, in addition to the terrible leadership, and coaching, he cracked under the pressure, and played nervous most of his time here.

Jordan may a completely different type of kid, and player, but what on earth do we have to gain with hype? If he shows up today, and he looks like a stud, then great, but shouldn't we want the hype to build gradually? I love Lavin, but his best skill so far is hype, and in year 4, it's now time for some substance.

I recall the 94-95 season w vivid accuracy. Lopez graced the cover of the USA Today Magazine, SI, The Sporting News, and he was featured in the NYDN, NYP, The NYT and several other publications during a time when just about everyone has no idea what kind of player he really was, because they hadn't seen more than his photo.

On the other hand, a year earlier, Uconn, which featured Donyell Marshall and Doron Shaeffer, brought some no name freshman off the bench. They gave him freshman minutes, and brought him along slowly. Jim Calhoun's development of Ray Allen is what I'd like to strive for. I don't care how good a freshman thinks he is, or even how good he really is, I'd like to see all of them wait turn. It seems to have worked out pretty well for Calhoun.

This city is famous for overhyping basketball players. Not just St.John's, but all of them. How many basketball players in NYC have actually liked up to the hype over the last 25 years?

Mashburn? Marbury? Walker? Almost all of them wind up playing in the league as role players like Lamar Odom and Sebastian Telfair, or disappear into the night like Lenny Cooke. There are different reasons why a guy like Lopez couldn't hack it here. IMO, in addition to the terrible leadership, and coaching, he cracked under the pressure, and played nervous most of his time here.

Jordan may a completely different type of kid, and player, but what on earth do we have to gain with hype? If he shows up today, and he looks like a stud, then great, but shouldn't we want the hype to build gradually? I love Lavin, but his best skill so far is hype, and in year 4, it's now time for some substance.

I recall the 94-95 season w vivid accuracy. Lopez graced the cover of the USA Today Magazine, SI, The Sporting News, and he was featured in the NYDN, NYP, The NYT and several other publications during a time when just about everyone has no idea what kind of player he really was, because they hadn't seen more than his photo.

On the other hand, a year earlier, Uconn, which featured Donyell Marshall and Doron Shaeffer, brought some no name freshman off the bench. They gave him freshman minutes, and brought him along slowly. Jim Calhoun's development of Ray Allen is what I'd like to strive for. I don't care how good a freshman thinks he is, or even how good he really is, I'd like to see all of them wait turn. It seems to have worked out pretty well for Calhoun.

It is not only us who are hyping him but the BE coaches who selected him preseason Freshman of the year--a lot of pressure for an 18 year old

"rock on"

Proof positive you're an "old a$$ fan".

And it takes one to know one.