God's Gift Critique

Quote from: TONYD3 on November 07, 2013, 07:45:16 PM

Not trying to be a dxck. What has he done to make u think he will help us? I hope he has 25 rebound and scores 30 points. But I don't think so

He was almost a 10pt 6 reb guy his first season, who scored over 50% from the field.  Why do you think he can't help?  He doesnt have to match your absurd numbers which make no point whatsoever.  Seems you really are just trying to be a dick because his first seasons numbers are very good and he just scored 24pts and a bunch of rebounds in our most recent exhibition. 

Yes, his numbers looked good. But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game. Not to mention even those already inflated stats were boosted even more from dominating against cupcakes then struggling against good teams (yes, I know there are a couple exceptions). I like Gift. He puts in a lot of effort and shows more hustle than maybe anyone on the team. He's also very strong. What he lacks is a lot of skill.  He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder. Hopefully he steps up this year. I don't think criticizing Gift for his performance 2 seasons ago is out of line. I also don't think any big east teams are shaking in their boots thinking about having to play him. 

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 07:29:02 PM

Quote from: bk8664 on November 07, 2013, 07:14:52 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 07:01:40 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 07, 2013, 06:57:39 PM

We'll know tomorrow night

Gift and Sanchez are the type of players that Wisconsin doesn't want to see inside.  Gift needs to continue his hustle from last game, and be garbage man down low.

Do you mind elaborating on why Wisconsin doesn't want to see Gift?  Not sure I follow you.

He's a very high percentage scorer inside and a very good offensive rebounder.  Wisconsin lost their entire frontcourt last year.  Gift can be a menace with offensive boards and put backs, because IMO a big key to the game will be SJU on the offensive boards. 

It only needs elaborating because you're another Gift-hater I presume, but I obliged anyway.  He can help us.

Please don't take offense at my asking.  I don't hate on any of our players.  I just don't understand how Gift is any different from any muscled 6'8'' power forward that you'll find on any team from the Big East, Big Ten, ACC, AAC, etc.

Randomly picking a Big 10 big guy with the same numbers as Gift, Derrick Nix of Michigan State put up the same numbers as a senior as Gift's first season and was an honorable mention All Big Ten player.  Gift out up his numbers as a first year Juco. 

I'm not saying Gift is going to be a monster PF, but I really can't believe the idiots on these boards that write off a guy who out up almost 10/6 as a first year Juco. 

Quote from: bk8664 on November 07, 2013, 07:50:10 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 07:29:02 PM

Quote from: bk8664 on November 07, 2013, 07:14:52 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 07:01:40 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 07, 2013, 06:57:39 PM

We'll know tomorrow night

Gift and Sanchez are the type of players that Wisconsin doesn't want to see inside.  Gift needs to continue his hustle from last game, and be garbage man down low.

Do you mind elaborating on why Wisconsin doesn't want to see Gift?  Not sure I follow you.

He's a very high percentage scorer inside and a very good offensive rebounder.  Wisconsin lost their entire frontcourt last year.  Gift can be a menace with offensive boards and put backs, because IMO a big key to the game will be SJU on the offensive boards. 

It only needs elaborating because you're another Gift-hater I presume, but I obliged anyway.  He can help us.

Please don't take offense at my asking.  I don't hate on any of our players.  I just don't understand how Gift is any different from any muscled 6'8'' power forward that you'll find on any team from the Big East, Big Ten, ACC, AAC, etc.

Randomly picking a Big 10 big guy with the same numbers as Gift, Derrick Nix of Michigan State put up the same numbers as a senior as Gift's first season and was an honorable mention All Big Ten player.  Gift out up his numbers as a first year Juco. 

I'm not saying Gift is going to be a monster PF, but I really can't believe the idiots on these boards that write off a guy who out up almost 10/6 as a first year Juco. 

This was an upperclassmen who wasn't good enough to start on a 13 win team. Are the non believers the idiots here?

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 08:55:35 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on November 07, 2013, 07:45:16 PM

Not trying to be a dxck. What has he done to make u think he will help us? I hope he has 25 rebound and scores 30 points. But I don't think so

He was almost a 10pt 6 reb guy his first season, who scored over 50% from the field.  Why do you think he can't help?  He doesnt have to match your absurd numbers which make no point whatsoever.  Seems you really are just trying to be a dick because his first seasons numbers are very good and he just scored 24pts and a bunch of rebounds in our most recent exhibition. 

Yes, his numbers looked good. But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game. Not to mention even those already inflated stats were boosted even more from dominating against cupcakes then struggling against good teams (yes, I know there are a couple exceptions). I like Gift. He puts in a lot of effort and shows more hustle than maybe anyone on the team. He's also very strong. What he lacks is a lot of skill.  He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder. Hopefully he steps up this year. I don't think criticizing Gift for his performance 2 seasons ago is out of line. I also don't think any big east teams are shaking in their boots thinking about having to play him. 

Again, this is mostly unsupported stuff you're putting out there. 

"But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game"

No, hells no and absolutely not.  That's why they don't.  That is pure speculation and since "most" don't do that, theres no reason to assume that they can. 

"Not to mention even those already inflated stats". 

Umm, stats aren't inflated unless somebody is adding phantom numbers.  ALL players stats are an amalgam of their play in the early season against cupcakes as well as their conference play, much like Gift.  Gift had good games against cupcakes. He also had good games against at least 5 Big East schools, UK and others.  His stats are no more "inflated" than anybody else he is compared to. 

"He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder"

... He shot 53% from the field and averaged almost 6 rebounds per game.  He was also be of the top 8 offensive rebounders in the Big East which was the strongest conference in America.  So what you're saying is if he made those easy shots, he'd be 90% from the field??   Well, then yes I agree with you.  Stats say he made those shots for the most part better than most.  I addition, 6rebs per game is not "average at best" in any sense, especially in the Big East. 

Try as you will, his numbers are the only facts that can be looked at and they aren't poor in any stretch.  He was inconsistent at times for sure, and not a superstar, but his numbers were actually very solid overall.  That amalgam I spoke about.

This thread is dedicated to critiquing him, so I will.  I hate his new hair cut...

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 09:04:43 PM

Quote from: bk8664 on November 07, 2013, 07:50:10 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 07:29:02 PM

Quote from: bk8664 on November 07, 2013, 07:14:52 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 07:01:40 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 07, 2013, 06:57:39 PM

We'll know tomorrow night

Gift and Sanchez are the type of players that Wisconsin doesn't want to see inside.  Gift needs to continue his hustle from last game, and be garbage man down low.

Do you mind elaborating on why Wisconsin doesn't want to see Gift?  Not sure I follow you.

He's a very high percentage scorer inside and a very good offensive rebounder.  Wisconsin lost their entire frontcourt last year.  Gift can be a menace with offensive boards and put backs, because IMO a big key to the game will be SJU on the offensive boards. 

It only needs elaborating because you're another Gift-hater I presume, but I obliged anyway.  He can help us.

Please don't take offense at my asking.  I don't hate on any of our players.  I just don't understand how Gift is any different from any muscled 6'8'' power forward that you'll find on any team from the Big East, Big Ten, ACC, AAC, etc.

Randomly picking a Big 10 big guy with the same numbers as Gift, Derrick Nix of Michigan State put up the same numbers as a senior as Gift's first season and was an honorable mention All Big Ten player.  Gift out up his numbers as a first year Juco. 

I'm not saying Gift is going to be a monster PF, but I really can't believe the idiots on these boards that write off a guy who out up almost 10/6 as a first year Juco. 

This was an upperclassmen who wasn't good enough to start on a 13 win team. Are the non believers the idiots here?

Ummmm he played 30 minutes per game.  I guess your "beliefs" tell you that 30 minutes per game aren't "good enough" to start, so I'll have a hard time challenging your "belief" system... 

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 09:02:20 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 08:55:35 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on November 07, 2013, 07:45:16 PM

Not trying to be a dxck. What has he done to make u think he will help us? I hope he has 25 rebound and scores 30 points. But I don't think so

He was almost a 10pt 6 reb guy his first season, who scored over 50% from the field.  Why do you think he can't help?  He doesnt have to match your absurd numbers which make no point whatsoever.  Seems you really are just trying to be a dick because his first seasons numbers are very good and he just scored 24pts and a bunch of rebounds in our most recent exhibition. 

Yes, his numbers looked good. But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game. Not to mention even those already inflated stats were boosted even more from dominating against cupcakes then struggling against good teams (yes, I know there are a couple exceptions). I like Gift. He puts in a lot of effort and shows more hustle than maybe anyone on the team. He's also very strong. What he lacks is a lot of skill.  He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder. Hopefully he steps up this year. I don't think criticizing Gift for his performance 2 seasons ago is out of line. I also don't think any big east teams are shaking in their boots thinking about having to play him. 

Again, this is mostly unsupported stuff you're putting out there. 

"But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game"

No, hells no and absolutely not.  That's why they don't.  That is pure speculation and since "most" don't do that, theres no reason to assume that they can. 

"Not to mention even those already inflated stats". 

Umm, stats aren't inflated unless somebody is adding phantom numbers.  ALL players stats are an amalgam of their play in the early season against cupcakes as well as their conference play, much like Gift.  Gift had good games against cupcakes. He also had good games against at least 5 Big East schools, UK and others.  His stats are no more "inflated" than anybody else he is compared to. 

"He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder"

... He shot 53% from the field and averaged almost 6 rebounds per game.  He was also be of the top 8 offensive rebounders in the Big East which was the strongest conference in America.  So what you're saying is if he made those easy shots, he'd be 90% from the field??   Well, then yes I agree with you.  Stats say he made those shots for the most part better than most.  I addition, 6rebs per game is not "average at best" in any sense, especially in the Big East. 

Try as you will, his numbers are the only facts that can be looked at and they aren't poor in any stretch.  He was inconsistent at times for sure, and not a superstar, but his numbers were actually very solid overall.  That amalgam I spoke about.

This thread is dedicated to critiquing him, so I will.  I hate his new hair cut...

Everything I wrote is supported by my opinion, which is just as valid as yours.

"Most" centers aren't on teams with 6 scholarship players, all of which are freshman.  This is why I call his numbers inflated. What would his numbers have been had Sanchez or Obekpa been on that team? Dare I say they'd be cut in half? The only reason he was getting minutes later in the season was because we literally had nobody else to play the position.

You can't just look at numbers. Especially since they were so obviously skewed that year.

He averaged 5.6 rebounds as the starting center, averaging 30 MPG. Stop trying to argue he's some great rebounder.

If he comes anywhere close to his first year numbers I'll eat my words. But, I don't see it.

Quote from: Poison on November 07, 2013, 09:10:50 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 09:04:43 PM

Quote from: bk8664 on November 07, 2013, 07:50:10 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 07:29:02 PM

Quote from: bk8664 on November 07, 2013, 07:14:52 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 07:01:40 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 07, 2013, 06:57:39 PM

We'll know tomorrow night

Gift and Sanchez are the type of players that Wisconsin doesn't want to see inside.  Gift needs to continue his hustle from last game, and be garbage man down low.

Do you mind elaborating on why Wisconsin doesn't want to see Gift?  Not sure I follow you.

He's a very high percentage scorer inside and a very good offensive rebounder.  Wisconsin lost their entire frontcourt last year.  Gift can be a menace with offensive boards and put backs, because IMO a big key to the game will be SJU on the offensive boards. 

It only needs elaborating because you're another Gift-hater I presume, but I obliged anyway.  He can help us.

Please don't take offense at my asking.  I don't hate on any of our players.  I just don't understand how Gift is any different from any muscled 6'8'' power forward that you'll find on any team from the Big East, Big Ten, ACC, AAC, etc.

Randomly picking a Big 10 big guy with the same numbers as Gift, Derrick Nix of Michigan State put up the same numbers as a senior as Gift's first season and was an honorable mention All Big Ten player.  Gift out up his numbers as a first year Juco. 

I'm not saying Gift is going to be a monster PF, but I really can't believe the idiots on these boards that write off a guy who out up almost 10/6 as a first year Juco. 

This was an upperclassmen who wasn't good enough to start on a 13 win team. Are the non believers the idiots here?

Ummmm he played 30 minutes per game.  I guess your "beliefs" tell you that 30 minutes per game aren't "good enough" to start, so I'll have a hard time challenging your "belief" system... 

Enlighten me and tell me who those minutes could have gone to if Gift wasn't as good as you say he is.

I am excited for the season. I want to win. It's been a long time. I don't want hate on our players, but some of u are crazy. If you say harrsion will be player of the year and average 45 points a game. I don't agree but it could happen. Gift is closer to Abe Keita then any all big ten forward. the guy doesn't even catch a basketball well. I will happily eat my words if if wrong . Seriously people are confident him playing quality minutes vs g-town or cuse. I want to drink the Koop aid. Sweet 16 sounds great. But

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 09:21:16 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 07, 2013, 09:10:50 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 09:04:43 PM

Quote from: bk8664 on November 07, 2013, 07:50:10 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 07:29:02 PM

Quote from: bk8664 on November 07, 2013, 07:14:52 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 07:01:40 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 07, 2013, 06:57:39 PM

We'll know tomorrow night

Gift and Sanchez are the type of players that Wisconsin doesn't want to see inside.  Gift needs to continue his hustle from last game, and be garbage man down low.

Do you mind elaborating on why Wisconsin doesn't want to see Gift?  Not sure I follow you.

He's a very high percentage scorer inside and a very good offensive rebounder.  Wisconsin lost their entire frontcourt last year.  Gift can be a menace with offensive boards and put backs, because IMO a big key to the game will be SJU on the offensive boards. 

It only needs elaborating because you're another Gift-hater I presume, but I obliged anyway.  He can help us.

Please don't take offense at my asking.  I don't hate on any of our players.  I just don't understand how Gift is any different from any muscled 6'8'' power forward that you'll find on any team from the Big East, Big Ten, ACC, AAC, etc.

Randomly picking a Big 10 big guy with the same numbers as Gift, Derrick Nix of Michigan State put up the same numbers as a senior as Gift's first season and was an honorable mention All Big Ten player.  Gift out up his numbers as a first year Juco. 

I'm not saying Gift is going to be a monster PF, but I really can't believe the idiots on these boards that write off a guy who out up almost 10/6 as a first year Juco. 

This was an upperclassmen who wasn't good enough to start on a 13 win team. Are the non believers the idiots here?

Ummmm he played 30 minutes per game.  I guess your "beliefs" tell you that 30 minutes per game aren't "good enough" to start, so I'll have a hard time challenging your "belief" system... 

Enlighten me and tell me who those minutes could have gone to if Gift wasn't as good as you say he is.

Poison said he wasn't good enough to start...  What are starters minutes?  30 isn't?

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 09:15:40 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 09:02:20 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 08:55:35 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on November 07, 2013, 07:45:16 PM

Not trying to be a dxck. What has he done to make u think he will help us? I hope he has 25 rebound and scores 30 points. But I don't think so

He was almost a 10pt 6 reb guy his first season, who scored over 50% from the field.  Why do you think he can't help?  He doesnt have to match your absurd numbers which make no point whatsoever.  Seems you really are just trying to be a dick because his first seasons numbers are very good and he just scored 24pts and a bunch of rebounds in our most recent exhibition. 

Yes, his numbers looked good. But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game. Not to mention even those already inflated stats were boosted even more from dominating against cupcakes then struggling against good teams (yes, I know there are a couple exceptions). I like Gift. He puts in a lot of effort and shows more hustle than maybe anyone on the team. He's also very strong. What he lacks is a lot of skill.  He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder. Hopefully he steps up this year. I don't think criticizing Gift for his performance 2 seasons ago is out of line. I also don't think any big east teams are shaking in their boots thinking about having to play him. 

Again, this is mostly unsupported stuff you're putting out there. 

"But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game"

No, hells no and absolutely not.  That's why they don't.  That is pure speculation and since "most" don't do that, theres no reason to assume that they can. 

"Not to mention even those already inflated stats". 

Umm, stats aren't inflated unless somebody is adding phantom numbers.  ALL players stats are an amalgam of their play in the early season against cupcakes as well as their conference play, much like Gift.  Gift had good games against cupcakes. He also had good games against at least 5 Big East schools, UK and others.  His stats are no more "inflated" than anybody else he is compared to. 

"He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder"

... He shot 53% from the field and averaged almost 6 rebounds per game.  He was also be of the top 8 offensive rebounders in the Big East which was the strongest conference in America.  So what you're saying is if he made those easy shots, he'd be 90% from the field??   Well, then yes I agree with you.  Stats say he made those shots for the most part better than most.  I addition, 6rebs per game is not "average at best" in any sense, especially in the Big East. 

Try as you will, his numbers are the only facts that can be looked at and they aren't poor in any stretch.  He was inconsistent at times for sure, and not a superstar, but his numbers were actually very solid overall.  That amalgam I spoke about.

This thread is dedicated to critiquing him, so I will.  I hate his new hair cut...

Everything I wrote is supported by my opinion, which is just as valid as yours.

"Most" centers aren't on teams with 6 scholarship players, all of which are freshman.  This is why I call his numbers inflated. What would his numbers have been had Sanchez or Obekpa been on that team? Dare I say they'd be cut in half? The only reason he was getting minutes later in the season was because we literally had nobody else to play the position.

You can't just look at numbers. Especially since they were so obviously skewed that year.

He averaged 5.6 rebounds as the starting center, averaging 30 MPG. Stop trying to argue he's some great rebounder.

If he comes anywhere close to his first year numbers I'll eat my words. But, I don't see it.

First off, I didn't support anything with opinion.  I did so with the facts.  More than that, Gifts numbers were as a first year JC transfer in his first season at this level. 

"You can't just look at numbers. Especially since they were so obviously skewed that year"

Sure you can.  The numbers are the sum of what he produced that year.  They weren't skewed.  He did play those games and earn those numbers, regardless of the fact that you don't like to give him credit for them.

I'm simply stating that there is a lot of denigration of Gift on these boards that it unsupported by the numbers which are a measurable way to assess a plaer's actually impact.  I dont think he'll be a starter and he will certainly have far inferior numbers.  But to say he can't be a contributor, or that he stinks is absurd and not supported by the numbers regardless of whatever delusions some posters here have. 

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 09:32:16 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 09:15:40 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 09:02:20 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 08:55:35 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on November 07, 2013, 07:45:16 PM

Not trying to be a dxck. What has he done to make u think he will help us? I hope he has 25 rebound and scores 30 points. But I don't think so

He was almost a 10pt 6 reb guy his first season, who scored over 50% from the field.  Why do you think he can't help?  He doesnt have to match your absurd numbers which make no point whatsoever.  Seems you really are just trying to be a dick because his first seasons numbers are very good and he just scored 24pts and a bunch of rebounds in our most recent exhibition. 

Yes, his numbers looked good. But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game. Not to mention even those already inflated stats were boosted even more from dominating against cupcakes then struggling against good teams (yes, I know there are a couple exceptions). I like Gift. He puts in a lot of effort and shows more hustle than maybe anyone on the team. He's also very strong. What he lacks is a lot of skill.  He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder. Hopefully he steps up this year. I don't think criticizing Gift for his performance 2 seasons ago is out of line. I also don't think any big east teams are shaking in their boots thinking about having to play him. 

Again, this is mostly unsupported stuff you're putting out there. 

"But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game"

No, hells no and absolutely not.  That's why they don't.  That is pure speculation and since "most" don't do that, theres no reason to assume that they can. 

"Not to mention even those already inflated stats". 

Umm, stats aren't inflated unless somebody is adding phantom numbers.  ALL players stats are an amalgam of their play in the early season against cupcakes as well as their conference play, much like Gift.  Gift had good games against cupcakes. He also had good games against at least 5 Big East schools, UK and others.  His stats are no more "inflated" than anybody else he is compared to. 

"He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder"

... He shot 53% from the field and averaged almost 6 rebounds per game.  He was also be of the top 8 offensive rebounders in the Big East which was the strongest conference in America.  So what you're saying is if he made those easy shots, he'd be 90% from the field??   Well, then yes I agree with you.  Stats say he made those shots for the most part better than most.  I addition, 6rebs per game is not "average at best" in any sense, especially in the Big East. 

Try as you will, his numbers are the only facts that can be looked at and they aren't poor in any stretch.  He was inconsistent at times for sure, and not a superstar, but his numbers were actually very solid overall.  That amalgam I spoke about.

This thread is dedicated to critiquing him, so I will.  I hate his new hair cut...

Everything I wrote is supported by my opinion, which is just as valid as yours.

"Most" centers aren't on teams with 6 scholarship players, all of which are freshman.  This is why I call his numbers inflated. What would his numbers have been had Sanchez or Obekpa been on that team? Dare I say they'd be cut in half? The only reason he was getting minutes later in the season was because we literally had nobody else to play the position.

You can't just look at numbers. Especially since they were so obviously skewed that year.

He averaged 5.6 rebounds as the starting center, averaging 30 MPG. Stop trying to argue he's some great rebounder.

If he comes anywhere close to his first year numbers I'll eat my words. But, I don't see it.

First off, I didn't support anything with opinion.  I did so with the facts.  More than that, Gifts numbers were as a first year JC transfer in his first season at this level. 

"You can't just look at numbers. Especially since they were so obviously skewed that year"

Sure you can.  The numbers are the sum of what he produced that year.  They weren't skewed.  He did play those games and earn those numbers, regardless of the fact that you don't like to give him credit for them.

I'm simply stating that there is a lot of denigration of Gift on these boards that it unsupported by the numbers which are a measurable way to assess a plaer's actually impact.  I dont think he'll be a starter and he will certainly have far inferior numbers.  But to say he can't be a contributor, or that he stinks is absurd and not supported by the numbers regardless of whatever delusions some posters here have. 

Ok , I give him credit for his 25 points against William and Mary. Then, will you at least acknowledge his pathetic BE games. Here are his numbers in consecutive BE games starting with Villanova:

PTS: 2, 2, 4, 15(DePaul), 9, 6, 2, 5, 2, 5, 5
REB: 1, 7, 5, 5, 6, 1, 3, 3, 2, 4, 6

How's that for backing up an argument?

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 09:46:22 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 09:32:16 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 09:15:40 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 09:02:20 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 08:55:35 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on November 07, 2013, 07:45:16 PM

Not trying to be a dxck. What has he done to make u think he will help us? I hope he has 25 rebound and scores 30 points. But I don't think so

He was almost a 10pt 6 reb guy his first season, who scored over 50% from the field.  Why do you think he can't help?  He doesnt have to match your absurd numbers which make no point whatsoever.  Seems you really are just trying to be a dick because his first seasons numbers are very good and he just scored 24pts and a bunch of rebounds in our most recent exhibition. 

Yes, his numbers looked good. But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game. Not to mention even those already inflated stats were boosted even more from dominating against cupcakes then struggling against good teams (yes, I know there are a couple exceptions). I like Gift. He puts in a lot of effort and shows more hustle than maybe anyone on the team. He's also very strong. What he lacks is a lot of skill.  He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder. Hopefully he steps up this year. I don't think criticizing Gift for his performance 2 seasons ago is out of line. I also don't think any big east teams are shaking in their boots thinking about having to play him. 

Again, this is mostly unsupported stuff you're putting out there. 

"But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game"

No, hells no and absolutely not.  That's why they don't.  That is pure speculation and since "most" don't do that, theres no reason to assume that they can. 

"Not to mention even those already inflated stats". 

Umm, stats aren't inflated unless somebody is adding phantom numbers.  ALL players stats are an amalgam of their play in the early season against cupcakes as well as their conference play, much like Gift.  Gift had good games against cupcakes. He also had good games against at least 5 Big East schools, UK and others.  His stats are no more "inflated" than anybody else he is compared to. 

"He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder"

... He shot 53% from the field and averaged almost 6 rebounds per game.  He was also be of the top 8 offensive rebounders in the Big East which was the strongest conference in America.  So what you're saying is if he made those easy shots, he'd be 90% from the field??   Well, then yes I agree with you.  Stats say he made those shots for the most part better than most.  I addition, 6rebs per game is not "average at best" in any sense, especially in the Big East. 

Try as you will, his numbers are the only facts that can be looked at and they aren't poor in any stretch.  He was inconsistent at times for sure, and not a superstar, but his numbers were actually very solid overall.  That amalgam I spoke about.

This thread is dedicated to critiquing him, so I will.  I hate his new hair cut...

Everything I wrote is supported by my opinion, which is just as valid as yours.

"Most" centers aren't on teams with 6 scholarship players, all of which are freshman.  This is why I call his numbers inflated. What would his numbers have been had Sanchez or Obekpa been on that team? Dare I say they'd be cut in half? The only reason he was getting minutes later in the season was because we literally had nobody else to play the position.

You can't just look at numbers. Especially since they were so obviously skewed that year.

He averaged 5.6 rebounds as the starting center, averaging 30 MPG. Stop trying to argue he's some great rebounder.

If he comes anywhere close to his first year numbers I'll eat my words. But, I don't see it.

First off, I didn't support anything with opinion.  I did so with the facts.  More than that, Gifts numbers were as a first year JC transfer in his first season at this level. 

"You can't just look at numbers. Especially since they were so obviously skewed that year"

Sure you can.  The numbers are the sum of what he produced that year.  They weren't skewed.  He did play those games and earn those numbers, regardless of the fact that you don't like to give him credit for them.

I'm simply stating that there is a lot of denigration of Gift on these boards that it unsupported by the numbers which are a measurable way to assess a plaer's actually impact.  I dont think he'll be a starter and he will certainly have far inferior numbers.  But to say he can't be a contributor, or that he stinks is absurd and not supported by the numbers regardless of whatever delusions some posters here have. 

Ok , I give him credit for his 25 points against William and Mary. Then, will you at least acknowledge his pathetic BE games. Here are his numbers in consecutive BE games starting with Villanova:

PTS: 2, 2, 4, 15(DePaul), 9, 6, 2, 5, 2, 5, 5
REB: 1, 7, 5, 5, 6, 1, 3, 3, 2, 4, 6

How's that for backing up an argument?

Checkmate

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 09:46:22 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 09:32:16 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 09:15:40 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 09:02:20 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 08:55:35 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on November 07, 2013, 07:45:16 PM

Not trying to be a dxck. What has he done to make u think he will help us? I hope he has 25 rebound and scores 30 points. But I don't think so

He was almost a 10pt 6 reb guy his first season, who scored over 50% from the field.  Why do you think he can't help?  He doesnt have to match your absurd numbers which make no point whatsoever.  Seems you really are just trying to be a dick because his first seasons numbers are very good and he just scored 24pts and a bunch of rebounds in our most recent exhibition. 

Yes, his numbers looked good. But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game. Not to mention even those already inflated stats were boosted even more from dominating against cupcakes then struggling against good teams (yes, I know there are a couple exceptions). I like Gift. He puts in a lot of effort and shows more hustle than maybe anyone on the team. He's also very strong. What he lacks is a lot of skill.  He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder. Hopefully he steps up this year. I don't think criticizing Gift for his performance 2 seasons ago is out of line. I also don't think any big east teams are shaking in their boots thinking about having to play him. 

Again, this is mostly unsupported stuff you're putting out there. 

"But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game"

No, hells no and absolutely not.  That's why they don't.  That is pure speculation and since "most" don't do that, theres no reason to assume that they can. 

"Not to mention even those already inflated stats". 

Umm, stats aren't inflated unless somebody is adding phantom numbers.  ALL players stats are an amalgam of their play in the early season against cupcakes as well as their conference play, much like Gift.  Gift had good games against cupcakes. He also had good games against at least 5 Big East schools, UK and others.  His stats are no more "inflated" than anybody else he is compared to. 

"He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder"

... He shot 53% from the field and averaged almost 6 rebounds per game.  He was also be of the top 8 offensive rebounders in the Big East which was the strongest conference in America.  So what you're saying is if he made those easy shots, he'd be 90% from the field??   Well, then yes I agree with you.  Stats say he made those shots for the most part better than most.  I addition, 6rebs per game is not "average at best" in any sense, especially in the Big East. 

Try as you will, his numbers are the only facts that can be looked at and they aren't poor in any stretch.  He was inconsistent at times for sure, and not a superstar, but his numbers were actually very solid overall.  That amalgam I spoke about.

This thread is dedicated to critiquing him, so I will.  I hate his new hair cut...

Everything I wrote is supported by my opinion, which is just as valid as yours.

"Most" centers aren't on teams with 6 scholarship players, all of which are freshman.  This is why I call his numbers inflated. What would his numbers have been had Sanchez or Obekpa been on that team? Dare I say they'd be cut in half? The only reason he was getting minutes later in the season was because we literally had nobody else to play the position.

You can't just look at numbers. Especially since they were so obviously skewed that year.

He averaged 5.6 rebounds as the starting center, averaging 30 MPG. Stop trying to argue he's some great rebounder.

If he comes anywhere close to his first year numbers I'll eat my words. But, I don't see it.

First off, I didn't support anything with opinion.  I did so with the facts.  More than that, Gifts numbers were as a first year JC transfer in his first season at this level. 

"You can't just look at numbers. Especially since they were so obviously skewed that year"

Sure you can.  The numbers are the sum of what he produced that year.  They weren't skewed.  He did play those games and earn those numbers, regardless of the fact that you don't like to give him credit for them.

I'm simply stating that there is a lot of denigration of Gift on these boards that it unsupported by the numbers which are a measurable way to assess a plaer's actually impact.  I dont think he'll be a starter and he will certainly have far inferior numbers.  But to say he can't be a contributor, or that he stinks is absurd and not supported by the numbers regardless of whatever delusions some posters here have. 

Ok , I give him credit for his 25 points against William and Mary. Then, will you at least acknowledge his pathetic BE games. Here are his numbers in consecutive BE games starting with Villanova:

PTS: 2, 2, 4, 15(DePaul), 9, 6, 2, 5, 2, 5, 5
REB: 1, 7, 5, 5, 6, 1, 3, 3, 2, 4, 6

How's that for backing up an argument?

I'll acknowledge and put you to bed:

Cincy: 9pts 5rebs
Providence: 9pts 6rebs
Kentucky: 18 pts10 rebounds
Uconn: 16 pts5 rebounds
Cincy 2: 9pts 5 rebounds
Marquette: 20pts 7 rebounds
USF: 11pts 6 rebounds
DePaul:  15 pts 5 rebounds
Syracuse: 9 pts 6 rebounds
Pitt: 17 pts 3 rebounds
Rutgers: 12 pts 8 rebounds
Pittsburgh: 6pts 12 rebounds. 

Yes, I acknowledge that the games you chose weren't the best, and he had a few more lackluster games.  But his games against real competition were inconsistent at worst.   A marginal player doesnt have regular outings like these, forget William and Mary.  He had 24 points last week and still he can't play and is "pathetic" against real competiton...How bout them apples...

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 10:02:17 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 09:46:22 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 09:32:16 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 09:15:40 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 09:02:20 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 08:55:35 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on November 07, 2013, 07:45:16 PM

Not trying to be a dxck. What has he done to make u think he will help us? I hope he has 25 rebound and scores 30 points. But I don't think so

He was almost a 10pt 6 reb guy his first season, who scored over 50% from the field.  Why do you think he can't help?  He doesnt have to match your absurd numbers which make no point whatsoever.  Seems you really are just trying to be a dick because his first seasons numbers are very good and he just scored 24pts and a bunch of rebounds in our most recent exhibition. 

Yes, his numbers looked good. But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game. Not to mention even those already inflated stats were boosted even more from dominating against cupcakes then struggling against good teams (yes, I know there are a couple exceptions). I like Gift. He puts in a lot of effort and shows more hustle than maybe anyone on the team. He's also very strong. What he lacks is a lot of skill.  He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder. Hopefully he steps up this year. I don't think criticizing Gift for his performance 2 seasons ago is out of line. I also don't think any big east teams are shaking in their boots thinking about having to play him. 

Again, this is mostly unsupported stuff you're putting out there. 

"But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game"

No, hells no and absolutely not.  That's why they don't.  That is pure speculation and since "most" don't do that, theres no reason to assume that they can. 

"Not to mention even those already inflated stats". 

Umm, stats aren't inflated unless somebody is adding phantom numbers.  ALL players stats are an amalgam of their play in the early season against cupcakes as well as their conference play, much like Gift.  Gift had good games against cupcakes. He also had good games against at least 5 Big East schools, UK and others.  His stats are no more "inflated" than anybody else he is compared to. 

"He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder"

... He shot 53% from the field and averaged almost 6 rebounds per game.  He was also be of the top 8 offensive rebounders in the Big East which was the strongest conference in America.  So what you're saying is if he made those easy shots, he'd be 90% from the field??   Well, then yes I agree with you.  Stats say he made those shots for the most part better than most.  I addition, 6rebs per game is not "average at best" in any sense, especially in the Big East. 

Try as you will, his numbers are the only facts that can be looked at and they aren't poor in any stretch.  He was inconsistent at times for sure, and not a superstar, but his numbers were actually very solid overall.  That amalgam I spoke about.

This thread is dedicated to critiquing him, so I will.  I hate his new hair cut...

Everything I wrote is supported by my opinion, which is just as valid as yours.

"Most" centers aren't on teams with 6 scholarship players, all of which are freshman.  This is why I call his numbers inflated. What would his numbers have been had Sanchez or Obekpa been on that team? Dare I say they'd be cut in half? The only reason he was getting minutes later in the season was because we literally had nobody else to play the position.

You can't just look at numbers. Especially since they were so obviously skewed that year.

He averaged 5.6 rebounds as the starting center, averaging 30 MPG. Stop trying to argue he's some great rebounder.

If he comes anywhere close to his first year numbers I'll eat my words. But, I don't see it.

First off, I didn't support anything with opinion.  I did so with the facts.  More than that, Gifts numbers were as a first year JC transfer in his first season at this level. 

"You can't just look at numbers. Especially since they were so obviously skewed that year"

Sure you can.  The numbers are the sum of what he produced that year.  They weren't skewed.  He did play those games and earn those numbers, regardless of the fact that you don't like to give him credit for them.

I'm simply stating that there is a lot of denigration of Gift on these boards that it unsupported by the numbers which are a measurable way to assess a plaer's actually impact.  I dont think he'll be a starter and he will certainly have far inferior numbers.  But to say he can't be a contributor, or that he stinks is absurd and not supported by the numbers regardless of whatever delusions some posters here have. 

Ok , I give him credit for his 25 points against William and Mary. Then, will you at least acknowledge his pathetic BE games. Here are his numbers in consecutive BE games starting with Villanova:

PTS: 2, 2, 4, 15(DePaul), 9, 6, 2, 5, 2, 5, 5
REB: 1, 7, 5, 5, 6, 1, 3, 3, 2, 4, 6

How's that for backing up an argument?

I'll acknowledge and put you to bed:

Cincy: 9pts 5rebs
Providence: 9pts 6rebs
Kentucky: 18 pts10 rebounds
Uconn: 16 pts5 rebounds
Cincy 2: 9pts 5 rebounds
Marquette: 20pts 7 rebounds
USF: 11pts 6 rebounds
DePaul:  15 pts 5 rebounds
Syracuse: 9 pts 6 rebounds
Pitt: 17 pts 3 rebounds
Rutgers: 12 pts 8 rebounds
Pittsburgh: 6pts 12 rebounds. 

Yes, I acknowledge that the games you chose weren't the best, and he had a few more lackluster games.  But his games against real competition were inconsistent at worst.   Over and out...

But the games I pointed out were CONSECUTIVE. I didn't just pick and choose bad ones. There were plenty of other bad ones to choose from. I don't know if I'm supposed to be impressed about 9 and 5 against Cincy? I think that game could have been put in my post. I already acknowledged he had a few decent games against top teams but overall struggled. You seem to keep ignoring that and just focusing on the few games he played well.

I consider myself a realistic poster, but I'm sure others would call me more on the optimistic side. And as I've already stated, I love Gift. I just think he's in a bit over his head at this level and on this team. Would be ecstatic if he's able to give us 10 solid min of energy and hustle. Anything more than that I'll eat my words, as I've already said.

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 10:39:31 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 10:02:17 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 09:46:22 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 09:32:16 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 09:15:40 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 09:02:20 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 08:55:35 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on November 07, 2013, 07:45:16 PM

Not trying to be a dxck. What has he done to make u think he will help us? I hope he has 25 rebound and scores 30 points. But I don't think so

He was almost a 10pt 6 reb guy his first season, who scored over 50% from the field.  Why do you think he can't help?  He doesnt have to match your absurd numbers which make no point whatsoever.  Seems you really are just trying to be a dick because his first seasons numbers are very good and he just scored 24pts and a bunch of rebounds in our most recent exhibition. 

Yes, his numbers looked good. But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game. Not to mention even those already inflated stats were boosted even more from dominating against cupcakes then struggling against good teams (yes, I know there are a couple exceptions). I like Gift. He puts in a lot of effort and shows more hustle than maybe anyone on the team. He's also very strong. What he lacks is a lot of skill.  He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder. Hopefully he steps up this year. I don't think criticizing Gift for his performance 2 seasons ago is out of line. I also don't think any big east teams are shaking in their boots thinking about having to play him. 

Again, this is mostly unsupported stuff you're putting out there. 

"But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game"

No, hells no and absolutely not.  That's why they don't.  That is pure speculation and since "most" don't do that, theres no reason to assume that they can. 

"Not to mention even those already inflated stats". 

Umm, stats aren't inflated unless somebody is adding phantom numbers.  ALL players stats are an amalgam of their play in the early season against cupcakes as well as their conference play, much like Gift.  Gift had good games against cupcakes. He also had good games against at least 5 Big East schools, UK and others.  His stats are no more "inflated" than anybody else he is compared to. 

"He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder"

... He shot 53% from the field and averaged almost 6 rebounds per game.  He was also be of the top 8 offensive rebounders in the Big East which was the strongest conference in America.  So what you're saying is if he made those easy shots, he'd be 90% from the field??   Well, then yes I agree with you.  Stats say he made those shots for the most part better than most.  I addition, 6rebs per game is not "average at best" in any sense, especially in the Big East. 

Try as you will, his numbers are the only facts that can be looked at and they aren't poor in any stretch.  He was inconsistent at times for sure, and not a superstar, but his numbers were actually very solid overall.  That amalgam I spoke about.

This thread is dedicated to critiquing him, so I will.  I hate his new hair cut...

Everything I wrote is supported by my opinion, which is just as valid as yours.

"Most" centers aren't on teams with 6 scholarship players, all of which are freshman.  This is why I call his numbers inflated. What would his numbers have been had Sanchez or Obekpa been on that team? Dare I say they'd be cut in half? The only reason he was getting minutes later in the season was because we literally had nobody else to play the position.

You can't just look at numbers. Especially since they were so obviously skewed that year.

He averaged 5.6 rebounds as the starting center, averaging 30 MPG. Stop trying to argue he's some great rebounder.

If he comes anywhere close to his first year numbers I'll eat my words. But, I don't see it.

First off, I didn't support anything with opinion.  I did so with the facts.  More than that, Gifts numbers were as a first year JC transfer in his first season at this level. 

"You can't just look at numbers. Especially since they were so obviously skewed that year"

Sure you can.  The numbers are the sum of what he produced that year.  They weren't skewed.  He did play those games and earn those numbers, regardless of the fact that you don't like to give him credit for them.

I'm simply stating that there is a lot of denigration of Gift on these boards that it unsupported by the numbers which are a measurable way to assess a plaer's actually impact.  I dont think he'll be a starter and he will certainly have far inferior numbers.  But to say he can't be a contributor, or that he stinks is absurd and not supported by the numbers regardless of whatever delusions some posters here have. 

Ok , I give him credit for his 25 points against William and Mary. Then, will you at least acknowledge his pathetic BE games. Here are his numbers in consecutive BE games starting with Villanova:

PTS: 2, 2, 4, 15(DePaul), 9, 6, 2, 5, 2, 5, 5
REB: 1, 7, 5, 5, 6, 1, 3, 3, 2, 4, 6

How's that for backing up an argument?

I'll acknowledge and put you to bed:

Cincy: 9pts 5rebs
Providence: 9pts 6rebs
Kentucky: 18 pts10 rebounds
Uconn: 16 pts5 rebounds
Cincy 2: 9pts 5 rebounds
Marquette: 20pts 7 rebounds
USF: 11pts 6 rebounds
DePaul:  15 pts 5 rebounds
Syracuse: 9 pts 6 rebounds
Pitt: 17 pts 3 rebounds
Rutgers: 12 pts 8 rebounds
Pittsburgh: 6pts 12 rebounds. 

Yes, I acknowledge that the games you chose weren't the best, and he had a few more lackluster games.  But his games against real competition were inconsistent at worst.   Over and out...

But the games I pointed out were CONSECUTIVE. I didn't just pick and choose bad ones. There were plenty of other bad ones to choose from. I don't know if I'm supposed to be impressed about 9 and 5 against Cincy? I think that game could have been put in my post. I already acknowledged he had a few decent games against top teams but overall struggled. You seem to keep ignoring that and just focusing on the few games he played well.

I consider myself a realistic poster, but I'm sure others would call me more on the optimistic side. And as I've already stated, I love Gift. I just think he's in a bit over his head at this level and on this team. Would be ecstatic if he's able to give us 10 solid min of energy and hustle. Anything more than that I'll eat my words, as I've already said.

Just to correct you again, we didn't play Villanova, then DePaul CONSECUTIVELY that season so I'm not sure what you're talking about.  Just because he has 2 bad games in a row does not a player make either.  Moe Harkless had bad games for us too.

9-5 against a good Cincy team isn't good?  You're not realistic, youre delusional.   You have no idea how solid Gift's average numbers are.   Consider that our own Jayson Williams I believe "only" averaged something like 6.7 rebounds per game. 

I provided you with not a few games but  TWELVE very good games, not including his big games vs cupcakes like William and Mary but if you insist I will.   Overall he didn't "struggle", because the facts say he did not struggle and is in no way over his head at this level.  If he was over his head, he wouldn't be capable of the aforementioned games and others as well.  A player that doesn't belong at this level was Heath Orvis.  Gift had over a dozen big games vs legit competition in ONE season.  He didn't struggle...

He'll always runs rim to rim.

For every guy he beats in the post, he will match it with a travel.

He has good discipline on defense. Rarely gets off his feat on a pump fake but rarely attempts to block shots.

He hustles on the offensive glass and is good at the free throw line.

Gets lost in the zone, struggles with awareness, and is better when he can body up.

He is 4th best post player on the team. He will be serviceable.

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 10:48:32 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 10:39:31 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 10:02:17 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 09:46:22 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 09:32:16 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 09:15:40 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 07, 2013, 09:02:20 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on November 07, 2013, 08:55:35 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on November 07, 2013, 07:45:16 PM

Not trying to be a dxck. What has he done to make u think he will help us? I hope he has 25 rebound and scores 30 points. But I don't think so

He was almost a 10pt 6 reb guy his first season, who scored over 50% from the field.  Why do you think he can't help?  He doesnt have to match your absurd numbers which make no point whatsoever.  Seems you really are just trying to be a dick because his first seasons numbers are very good and he just scored 24pts and a bunch of rebounds in our most recent exhibition. 

Yes, his numbers looked good. But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game. Not to mention even those already inflated stats were boosted even more from dominating against cupcakes then struggling against good teams (yes, I know there are a couple exceptions). I like Gift. He puts in a lot of effort and shows more hustle than maybe anyone on the team. He's also very strong. What he lacks is a lot of skill.  He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder. Hopefully he steps up this year. I don't think criticizing Gift for his performance 2 seasons ago is out of line. I also don't think any big east teams are shaking in their boots thinking about having to play him. 

Again, this is mostly unsupported stuff you're putting out there. 

"But, I think most centers in college basketball could put up 10 and 6 if they played 30+ min. per game"

No, hells no and absolutely not.  That's why they don't.  That is pure speculation and since "most" don't do that, theres no reason to assume that they can. 

"Not to mention even those already inflated stats". 

Umm, stats aren't inflated unless somebody is adding phantom numbers.  ALL players stats are an amalgam of their play in the early season against cupcakes as well as their conference play, much like Gift.  Gift had good games against cupcakes. He also had good games against at least 5 Big East schools, UK and others.  His stats are no more "inflated" than anybody else he is compared to. 

"He seemed to miss very easy shots, and was an average at best rebounder"

... He shot 53% from the field and averaged almost 6 rebounds per game.  He was also be of the top 8 offensive rebounders in the Big East which was the strongest conference in America.  So what you're saying is if he made those easy shots, he'd be 90% from the field??   Well, then yes I agree with you.  Stats say he made those shots for the most part better than most.  I addition, 6rebs per game is not "average at best" in any sense, especially in the Big East. 

Try as you will, his numbers are the only facts that can be looked at and they aren't poor in any stretch.  He was inconsistent at times for sure, and not a superstar, but his numbers were actually very solid overall.  That amalgam I spoke about.

This thread is dedicated to critiquing him, so I will.  I hate his new hair cut...

Everything I wrote is supported by my opinion, which is just as valid as yours.

"Most" centers aren't on teams with 6 scholarship players, all of which are freshman.  This is why I call his numbers inflated. What would his numbers have been had Sanchez or Obekpa been on that team? Dare I say they'd be cut in half? The only reason he was getting minutes later in the season was because we literally had nobody else to play the position.

You can't just look at numbers. Especially since they were so obviously skewed that year.

He averaged 5.6 rebounds as the starting center, averaging 30 MPG. Stop trying to argue he's some great rebounder.

If he comes anywhere close to his first year numbers I'll eat my words. But, I don't see it.

First off, I didn't support anything with opinion.  I did so with the facts.  More than that, Gifts numbers were as a first year JC transfer in his first season at this level. 

"You can't just look at numbers. Especially since they were so obviously skewed that year"

Sure you can.  The numbers are the sum of what he produced that year.  They weren't skewed.  He did play those games and earn those numbers, regardless of the fact that you don't like to give him credit for them.

I'm simply stating that there is a lot of denigration of Gift on these boards that it unsupported by the numbers which are a measurable way to assess a plaer's actually impact.  I dont think he'll be a starter and he will certainly have far inferior numbers.  But to say he can't be a contributor, or that he stinks is absurd and not supported by the numbers regardless of whatever delusions some posters here have. 

Ok , I give him credit for his 25 points against William and Mary. Then, will you at least acknowledge his pathetic BE games. Here are his numbers in consecutive BE games starting with Villanova:

PTS: 2, 2, 4, 15(DePaul), 9, 6, 2, 5, 2, 5, 5
REB: 1, 7, 5, 5, 6, 1, 3, 3, 2, 4, 6

How's that for backing up an argument?

I'll acknowledge and put you to bed:

Cincy: 9pts 5rebs
Providence: 9pts 6rebs
Kentucky: 18 pts10 rebounds
Uconn: 16 pts5 rebounds
Cincy 2: 9pts 5 rebounds
Marquette: 20pts 7 rebounds
USF: 11pts 6 rebounds
DePaul:  15 pts 5 rebounds
Syracuse: 9 pts 6 rebounds
Pitt: 17 pts 3 rebounds
Rutgers: 12 pts 8 rebounds
Pittsburgh: 6pts 12 rebounds. 

Yes, I acknowledge that the games you chose weren't the best, and he had a few more lackluster games.  But his games against real competition were inconsistent at worst.   Over and out...

But the games I pointed out were CONSECUTIVE. I didn't just pick and choose bad ones. There were plenty of other bad ones to choose from. I don't know if I'm supposed to be impressed about 9 and 5 against Cincy? I think that game could have been put in my post. I already acknowledged he had a few decent games against top teams but overall struggled. You seem to keep ignoring that and just focusing on the few games he played well.

I consider myself a realistic poster, but I'm sure others would call me more on the optimistic side. And as I've already stated, I love Gift. I just think he's in a bit over his head at this level and on this team. Would be ecstatic if he's able to give us 10 solid min of energy and hustle. Anything more than that I'll eat my words, as I've already said.

Just to correct you again, we didn't play Villanova, then DePaul CONSECUTIVELY that season so I'm not sure what you're talking about.  Just because he has 2 bad games in a row does not a player make either.  Moe Harkless had bad games for us too.

9-5 against a good Cincy team isn't good?  You're not realistic, youre delusional.   You have no idea how solid Gift's average numbers are.   Consider that our own Jayson Williams I believe "only" averaged something like 6.7 rebounds per game. 

I provided you with not a few games but  TWELVE very good games, not including his big games vs cupcakes like William and Mary but if you insist I will.   Overall he didn't "struggle", because the facts say he did not struggle and is in no way over his head at this level.  If he was over his head, he wouldn't be capable of the aforementioned games and others as well.  A player that doesn't belong at this level was Heath Orvis.  Gift had over a dozen big games vs legit competition in ONE season.  He didn't struggle...

I never said we played Villanova and DePaul consecutively. You are the ultimate homer. I hope Gift does well.

And you can think 9 and 5 is good for a starting junior center, getting 30 MPG, on a team with 6 players, but I don't. That's average at best.

He'll always runs rim to rim.

For every guy he beats in the post, he will match it with a travel.

He has good discipline on defense. Rarely gets off his feat on a pump fake but rarely attempts to block shots.

He hustles on the offensive glass and is good at the free throw line.

Gets lost in the zone, struggles with awareness, and is better when he can body up.

He is 4th best post player on the team. He will be serviceable.

And that's what I'm saying.  He's serviceable and has proven it.  More than that, he's had more than a handful of games as a starter that were big games.  Fwiw, against Humboldt state, he looked a lot more mobile on defense than his first season and his positioning in the post.  He looked good in the zone on the baseline as far as I remember on Monday.  Time will tell, but I'm happy that we have him. 

As far as 4th best post player I'm not sure, because on offense he's our best post player until proven otherwise.  Obekpa can't yet score there.  Sanchez certainly can, but it will take a few games.  Who else is better?  I'd say 3rd best unless you're including Pointer because Jakarr hasn't shown his post game at all yet.

He'll always runs rim to rim.

For every guy he beats in the post, he will match it with a travel.

He has good discipline on defense. Rarely gets off his feat on a pump fake but rarely attempts to block shots.

He hustles on the offensive glass and is good at the free throw line.

Gets lost in the zone, struggles with awareness, and is better when he can body up.

He is 4th best post player on the team. He will be serviceable.

I agree. Serviceable. Energy and hustle off the bench. But let's not pretend he's going to come close to 10 and 6. He's not that type of player.

Quote from: TONYD3 on November 07, 2013, 07:45:16 PM

Not trying to be a dxck. What has he done to make u think he will help us? I hope he has 25 rebound and scores 30 points. But I don't think so

He was almost a 10pt 6 reb guy his first season, who scored over 50% from the field.  Why do you think he can't help?  He doesnt have to match your absurd numbers which make no point whatsoever.  Seems you really are just trying to be a dick because his first seasons numbers are very good and he just scored 24pts and a bunch of rebounds in our most recent exhibition. 

This guy thinks Gift should be the next Wayman Tisdale (RIP) or else he is no help at all.  If he gives us 8 and 6 against Wisconsin, I would be ecstatic.  He is one piece to victory.  No one is saying he is going to carry the team.

Btw, I'm really trying to figure out why some fans hate players on the team they root for.  Other than Arod, I don't really understand that.