Was Norm Roberts a better talent evaluator then coach Lavin?

We need to make a concerted effort to get Ennis fouled out in the Cuse game.  They'd be in trouble..

The only way that can happen is our guards penetrate. Harrison does at times. Greene really doesn't much. Branch isn't out there enough, and Jordan just isn't comfortable yet. We have one "tune up" next week, and that's it before SU. If we work on anything it should be the full court press.

There are a lot things I liked about Lavin's coaching over the last two games, but we go back to this stupid match up crap, my head will once again, explode.

Quote from: SJUFAN on December 01, 2013, 04:08:04 PM

Quote from: Linda Mirabella on November 29, 2013, 09:44:12 PM

Well then let's put it this way.  I do believe we have much undeveloped talent. We ave too many kids who were ranked in the top 25 to 60 out of HS, to not have much talent. Perhaps one or even two of them may not develope but the odds are that most will.  My own opinion is that if the experts are picking us not to even make the tourney with the talent they have then they have little faith in Lavns ability to run a program. 

In terms of talent, I saw Jordan on several occasions in HS games as I saw Tyler Ennis.  In high school. Jordan seemed the far superior in talent and athleticism. If you were to see both play now, you would think otherwise.  Ennis is under control, plays a great floor game and scores when needed.  Jordan looks uncomfortable, not in the flow and his defense needs much work, where Ennis holds his own with anyone.  Jordan came out the more highly rated but Ennis is way more advanced at this stage of the game.  The difference, COACHING.

Ennis isn't Swiss Cheese, he is a top 20 rated PG who plays exclusively in a 2-3 zone. Jordan is a far more superior defender. Ennis also started off pretty poorly, he and Jordan are in two different situations. While Ennis can afford to make bad decisions after bad decision with no consequences because there is no other option behind Ennis, Jordan doesn't have that luxury. I don't believe 6 games into their college career is a large enough sample size to state that Ennis has developed quicker due to better coaching, although I don't believe Lavin is a better coach than Jim Boeheim. Let's see who is the better player by their junior year. 

STJ returns three junior guards, and you think Ennis has it easier than Jordan? I think you've got it backwards. Jordan doesn't have be in during crunch time. Has he even played during crunch time at all?

With regard to playing time yes, Jordan doesn't have the luxury of making bad decisions, he would be pulled from the game. Ennis doesn't have to earn his playing time like Jordan does. If Ennis makes a mistake, he's doesn't have to worry about looking over his shoulder wondering if someone is going to come in for him. Ennis may develop quicker because of it, he's being allowed to play through his mistakes. It's all about playing time and Ennis doesn't have to earn it, so Ennis has it easier.

Imagine how effective your condescension would be if you could figure out how the quote function worked.

Another Foad classic! I needed that chuckle more than you know

Quote

Imagine how effective your condescension would be if you could figure out how the quote function worked.

Another Foad classic! I needed that chuckle more than you know

Don't mean to pry but is all ok, purist?

Quote from: Poison on December 01, 2013, 07:08:10 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on December 01, 2013, 04:08:04 PM

Quote from: Linda Mirabella on November 29, 2013, 09:44:12 PM

Well then let's put it this way.  I do believe we have much undeveloped talent. We ave too many kids who were ranked in the top 25 to 60 out of HS, to not have much talent. Perhaps one or even two of them may not develope but the odds are that most will.  My own opinion is that if the experts are picking us not to even make the tourney with the talent they have then they have little faith in Lavns ability to run a program. 

In terms of talent, I saw Jordan on several occasions in HS games as I saw Tyler Ennis.  In high school. Jordan seemed the far superior in talent and athleticism. If you were to see both play now, you would think otherwise.  Ennis is under control, plays a great floor game and scores when needed.  Jordan looks uncomfortable, not in the flow and his defense needs much work, where Ennis holds his own with anyone.  Jordan came out the more highly rated but Ennis is way more advanced at this stage of the game.  The difference, COACHING.

Ennis isn't Swiss Cheese, he is a top 20 rated PG who plays exclusively in a 2-3 zone. Jordan is a far more superior defender. Ennis also started off pretty poorly, he and Jordan are in two different situations. While Ennis can afford to make bad decisions after bad decision with no consequences because there is no other option behind Ennis, Jordan doesn't have that luxury. I don't believe 6 games into their college career is a large enough sample size to state that Ennis has developed quicker due to better coaching, although I don't believe Lavin is a better coach than Jim Boeheim. Let's see who is the better player by their junior year. 

STJ returns three junior guards, and you think Ennis has it easier than Jordan? I think you've got it backwards. Jordan doesn't have be in during crunch time. Has he even played during crunch time at all?

With regard to playing time yes, Jordan doesn't have the luxury of making bad decisions, he would be pulled from the game. Ennis doesn't have to earn his playing time like Jordan does. If Ennis makes a mistake, he's doesn't have to worry about looking over his shoulder wondering if someone is going to come in for him. Ennis may develop quicker because of it, he's being allowed to play through his mistakes. It's all about playing time and Ennis doesn't have to earn it, so Ennis has it easier.

I think if Jordan started games with a distributor's mentality, he'd be much further along right now. I've been to every home game, and I saw Wisconsin, as well. The kid spent a lot of time looking for his own shot. This group needs offense, yes, but they needed someone to run the offense even more.

Ennis runs the offense, and looks to score when necessary. He is already leagues beyond where Jordan is, and maybe any point guard I've ever seen at SJU.

Quote from: bball purist on December 02, 2013, 09:08:45 PM

Quote

Imagine how effective your condescension would be if you could figure out how the quote function worked.

Another Foad classic! I needed that chuckle more than you know

Don't mean to pry but is all ok, purist?

Thx for asking.  Just 17 y.o. son "what do I do with my life" probs.  He could easily have 3-5 offers for aid to DIII baseball (one locked up), and decided he didn't want to play since it would be "like a job" and not fun as it was up until now.  DIII baseball is a blast from what I've heard from former DIII players, but he got his impression from a 20 college bus tour we sent him on in the summer.  He had a terrific fall for his travel team, and his pitching was as sharp as ever.  I thought he might not pursue a music scholly, as he's an accomplished cellist in his HS Philharmonic Orchestra, but he is going to auditions and pursue that angle.  I thought he could have done both with a minor in music and done the 5 year degree approach, but he thought it would be too much work.  Maybe it's for the best.  I don't live through him (I still play ball , so it's not the end of the world as he's a duel threat kind of guy

Because of this conversation, I just discovered my son's photo was in an article about the college baseball bus tour run by Rich Prado in Richmond.  As you can see, a 6'3.5" (barefoot), 205 lb pitcher.  http://www.timesdispatch.com/sports/high-school/baseball/in-college-recruiting-the-importance-of-getting-feet-on-the/article_373388fb-b0cd-51c9-9a24-b8e8c784452a.html  Rich does Play in School baseball videos, etc. 

I wish he would have waited until he was sitting in a college quadrangle somewhere - lol.  I hope all is good on your front - at  the end of the day, that is what matters most - family, including the SJ's family.  I get a sense most of this board is pulling hard for the guys to band together and start showing where they're heading come end of season.  I see some good things happening, but it's such a fitful start thus far.  I see the guys gelling maybe in the middle of conference play.

Quote from: SJUFAN on December 01, 2013, 04:08:04 PM

Quote from: Linda Mirabella on November 29, 2013, 09:44:12 PM

Well then let's put it this way.  I do believe we have much undeveloped talent. We ave too many kids who were ranked in the top 25 to 60 out of HS, to not have much talent. Perhaps one or even two of them may not develope but the odds are that most will.  My own opinion is that if the experts are picking us not to even make the tourney with the talent they have then they have little faith in Lavns ability to run a program. 

In terms of talent, I saw Jordan on several occasions in HS games as I saw Tyler Ennis.  In high school. Jordan seemed the far superior in talent and athleticism. If you were to see both play now, you would think otherwise.  Ennis is under control, plays a great floor game and scores when needed.  Jordan looks uncomfortable, not in the flow and his defense needs much work, where Ennis holds his own with anyone.  Jordan came out the more highly rated but Ennis is way more advanced at this stage of the game.  The difference, COACHING.

Ennis isn't Swiss Cheese, he is a top 20 rated PG who plays exclusively in a 2-3 zone. Jordan is a far more superior defender. Ennis also started off pretty poorly, he and Jordan are in two different situations. While Ennis can afford to make bad decisions after bad decision with no consequences because there is no other option behind Ennis, Jordan doesn't have that luxury. I don't believe 6 games into their college career is a large enough sample size to state that Ennis has developed quicker due to better coaching, although I don't believe Lavin is a better coach than Jim Boeheim. Let's see who is the better player by their junior year. 

STJ returns three junior guards, and you think Ennis has it easier than Jordan? I think you've got it backwards. Jordan doesn't have be in during crunch time. Has he even played during crunch time at all?

The reason we were jazzed about playing SU at MSG this season is because this season, at least in our heads, was going to be the season we turn the corner. Ennis has become terrific. I watched the games they played in Maui. Ennis was terrific. As were Trevor Cooney and Jerami Grant. Only one star recruit there. Boeheim adds a very specific type of player, and he has once again, reloaded. Still, after Ennis, who brings it up?

In the pinch, we could and have used Pointer. And we have a junior pg in Branch. And capable combo guards in Greene and Harrison. If Ennis should get into foul trouble, who would take his place? I watched two of their games and I could even tell you who else was bringing up the ball.

FWIW, Ennis was higher rated, as were their 4 or 5 additional recruits, all ranked in the top 100, and damn close to it. The only way I can see is beating them is if Lavin learns from Saturday, and finally lays this zone crap to bed.

And Jesus, Linda. It is true. You never stated that Lavin made a Herculean effort with Norm's players, in his first year with St.John's. But since you didn't say it, perhaps someone should, so I will. Lavin made a Herculean effort with Norm's players his first year.

And should there be anyone on this board that doesn't agree with that, you are either blind, dumb or simply a troll. Like Linda is.

And you are an idiot.

 Lavin is a better coach than Norm Roberts.   Lavin is also a better evaluator of talent than Norm Roberts.. He's probably better at backgammon too...

 Lock this thing...

Norm is in a better fit now, ass't coach.  If you think Lavin subs to much, look back at a Norm's tenure @ SJU. he had a swinging door. He didn't take to suggestions from his ass't coaches.  Norm did one major thing right while @ St. John's...he kept the program from getting into trouble. He did a great job in this regard.

this is the worst thread in jungle history

this is the worst thread in jungle history

It's why simplyred and I went off on a tangent.  Revisiting the past at this juncture serves little purpose.  I'm trying to keep up with the board's good nuggets on recruiting, and digesting our team's upcoming tilts - I want to stick it to Cuse bad and have the guys play a great game and take the W to boot.  But playing well again is most important.  I'd like some consistently good play.

this is the worst thread in jungle history

Wait a few minutes...

Quote from: TONYD3 on December 10, 2013, 01:02:59 PM

this is the worst thread in jungle history

Wait a few minutes...

Lavin is a better coach than Norm Roberts.   Lavin is also a better evaluator of talent than Norm Roberts.. He's probably better at backgammon too...

 Lock this thing...

Norm would probably be a better neighbor though. Remember "he is a nice guy".
BTW I watched Kansas game vs Nova and Norm was restraining Self and was also jawing at the ref for a bad call. Was more fired up then I evr saw him on SJU sidelines.