Penn State - Game Discussion

and shoot me if you don't agree but harrison has to make that free-throw. he can't have this macho swag and get out dueled by tim frazier at the end of the game in a freethrow duel. first team all big east right.. doug mcdermott is not missing that free-throw .. harrison has to put the game away.

Quote from: bk8664 on November 29, 2013, 09:28:22 PM

Quote from: Chilleb on November 29, 2013, 09:25:42 PM

i can take a loss, its part of the game you win some you loose some but loosing like this is what separates us from the upper echelon teams in the country

It was a choke job, but this is not what separates us from the upper echelon.  What separates us is our lousy defense and poor decision making.  Also not great shot selection.  They either aren't a great coached team, or they don't execute or both.   This team is far from an upper echolon team... and I'm a huge fan of theirs.. this is just a fact.

harrsion shooting in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock in a 2 point game with the game under two minutes, up two and chris throws a 45 foot outlet pass, jakarr fouling three point shooter. is all what separates us. we don't make smart moves. our best possession of the to was when we moved the ball got it down to jakaar the double team came and he kicked it out for a greene 3. THATS BASKEBALL!!! we ran the same block to block or elbow to elbow double screen all game against the zone. this team hangs in games like this because of talent not because of iq, smarts, execution or coaching.  those upper echelon teams have a great combination of all the above. we don't. and we also tend to play to level of competition. this is why we struggle to pull away from monmouth, wagner, and long wood. we don't have a consistent level of play however we consistently make poor mistakes. how do we go into the game knowing they only have 2 scorers and they both end up with 25plus? i thought were elite defending team? or were frazier and newbill both lottery picks and we just couldn't stop them because there that damn good.

I think only 8 of Frazier's points were from the field.  The rest were free throws.  Looks like we stopped him or rather tried to, but got called any time we did.

Quote from: Chilleb on November 29, 2013, 09:45:12 PM

Quote from: bk8664 on November 29, 2013, 09:28:22 PM

Quote from: Chilleb on November 29, 2013, 09:25:42 PM

i can take a loss, its part of the game you win some you loose some but loosing like this is what separates us from the upper echelon teams in the country

if he was having such trouble from the field why foul him from behind the 3?... again dumb basketball

It was a choke job, but this is not what separates us from the upper echelon.  What separates us is our lousy defense and poor decision making.  Also not great shot selection.  They either aren't a great coached team, or they don't execute or both.   This team is far from an upper echolon team... and I'm a huge fan of theirs.. this is just a fact.

harrsion shooting in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock in a 2 point game with the game under two minutes, up two and chris throws a 45 foot outlet pass, jakarr fouling three point shooter. is all what separates us. we don't make smart moves. our best possession of the to was when we moved the ball got it down to jakaar the double team came and he kicked it out for a greene 3. THATS BASKEBALL!!! we ran the same block to block or elbow to elbow double screen all game against the zone. this team hangs in games like this because of talent not because of iq, smarts, execution or coaching.  those upper echelon teams have a great combination of all the above. we don't. and we also tend to play to level of competition. this is why we struggle to pull away from monmouth, wagner, and long wood. we don't have a consistent level of play however we consistently make poor mistakes. how do we go into the game knowing they only have 2 scorers and they both end up with 25plus? i thought were elite defending team? or were frazier and newbill both lottery picks and we just couldn't stop them because there that damn good.

I think only 8 of Frazier's points were from the field.  The rest were free throws.  Looks like we stopped him or rather tried to, but got called any time we did.

if he was having such trouble from the field why foul him from behind the 3?... again dumb basketball

Team sucks now. Hopefully they won't suck when it matters most. Have my doubts though.

and shoot me if you don't agree but harrison has to make that free-throw. he can't have this macho swag and get out dueled by tim frazier at the end of the game in a freethrow duel. first team all big east right.. doug mcdermott is not missing that free-throw .. harrison has to put the game away.

Agreed.  But it is not the end of the world.

He is going to make more game winning plays then he will failing on the FT line.  But he needed to make both.

Has anyone considered the fact that the constant in all our games is that we are always down early in the game. Could that be a lack of game preparation on the part of the staff?  Why do we always need miracle comebacks?  We have the talent to compete from the get go, do we not?

Had to laugh at Brandon Tierneys comment about us being on top and people gunning for us?  Since when ave we been on top.

Quote from: Chilleb on November 29, 2013, 09:51:59 PM

and shoot me if you don't agree but harrison has to make that free-throw. he can't have this macho swag and get out dueled by tim frazier at the end of the game in a freethrow duel. first team all big east right.. doug mcdermott is not missing that free-throw .. harrison has to put the game away.

Agreed.  But it is not the end of the world.

He is going to make more game winning plays then he will failing on the FT line.  But he needed to make both.

your right its not.. this is a long season only thing that would make this worse is severe hanging 35 on us.. lol

Quote from: Chilleb on November 29, 2013, 09:51:59 PM

and shoot me if you don't agree but harrison has to make that free-throw. he can't have this macho swag and get out dueled by tim frazier at the end of the game in a freethrow duel. first team all big east right.. doug mcdermott is not missing that free-throw .. harrison has to put the game away.

Agreed.  But it is not the end of the world.

He is going to make more game winning plays then he will failing on the FT line.  But he needed to make both.

I don't know who is he going to do it against.  St. John's isn't playing Monmouth or Longwood again this season.

and shoot me if you don't agree but harrison has to make that free-throw. he can't have this macho swag and get out dueled by tim frazier at the end of the game in a freethrow duel. first team all big east right.. doug mcdermott is not missing that free-throw .. harrison has to put the game away.

Agree.  It's not to place blame, but rather it's those moments where big players make big shots.  Needed to make it and we have a win.  Instead we put the rest of the game in the refs hands and a PSU win.  So again, he's not to blame for missing, but he needs to make it and win that game for us...

The game tomorrow is at 2pm? is that right?  Thanks in advance.

Quote from: Chilleb on November 29, 2013, 09:51:59 PM

and shoot me if you don't agree but harrison has to make that free-throw. he can't have this macho swag and get out dueled by tim frazier at the end of the game in a freethrow duel. first team all big east right.. doug mcdermott is not missing that free-throw .. harrison has to put the game away.

Agree.  It's not to place blame, but rather it's those moments where big players make big shots.  Needed to make it and we have a win.  Instead we put the rest of the game in the refs hands and a PSU win.  So again, he's not to blame for missing, but he needs to make it and win that game for us...

exactly

Quote from: tnice on November 29, 2013, 09:43:16 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on November 29, 2013, 09:31:56 PM

Quote from: Chilleb on November 29, 2013, 09:24:35 PM

I've been pretty much quiet up until this game... but wtf  goes on in our practices. we have the worst iq in the country. i though this is why we bought whitsell in

IQ is not fair.  Harrison makes both free throws and are you saying how DUMB PSU is for fouling Harrison? 

Were they dumb when they made the 18-3 run?

This team can score.  But they cannot fall behind by 15 in the second half and try to fight back.  These bad starts are going to burn them.   It is going to define the season.

You have to be kidding me. We are one of the lowest IQ teams I've ever seen. That  team with this much experience makes these kind of mistakes is mind blowing. Sampsons shot selection, the fouls beyond the three line out to halfcourt, the horrible decision making on the break, the cluelessness in either defense. Just because they made a run doesn't mean theyre not dumb...they are.

Bottom line is this...after all the stupidity, we had the ball and a two point lead in OT and Obekpa inexplicably  tried to throw a long outlet pass in to double coverage that would make Eli Manning proud instead of just handing the ball to Greene. That was the ballgame right there. Not even debatable.

PSU blew a 15 lead and had a foul at the end of the game if SJU was them you would be saying that was the dumbest team.

They made critical mistakes down the stretch costing them the game that happens a lot.  In fact it is how a lot of close games get decided, 1 team makes a bad mistake.  Happens all the time it is just that you don't root for all teams you root for SJU.

I get it I am mad as well, thought they pulled it out in regulation.  If they are 15-15 at the end of the year with 10 losses by 4 points or less when they led in the second half then you can call them a dumb team.  1 loss to a decent (not great but not bad PSU team) is not evidence of a low IQ team. 

Agreed they need to tighten things up.  But relax.

Its tough to relax with this group. This was/is the season where this program takes the next step. We are more talented than PSU. They have two good players and thats pretty much it and they beat us in our own backyard. One of our main guys, Sampson, seems to have taken a step back in his delevopment since last year. Lavin keeps saying this team will mesh by January/February but this is a group that has been playing together for well over a year.

Im not saying that the sky is falling but I had high hopes that Lavin and company will find a way to get this talent to mesh and flirt with the top 25 for much of the season. This game just shows that we are no better than a middle of the pack team in an average conference

Quote from: Chilleb on November 29, 2013, 09:51:59 PM

and shoot me if you don't agree but harrison has to make that free-throw. he can't have this macho swag and get out dueled by tim frazier at the end of the game in a freethrow duel. first team all big east right.. doug mcdermott is not missing that free-throw .. harrison has to put the game away.

Agreed.  But it is not the end of the world.

He is going to make more game winning plays then he will failing on the FT line.  But he needed to make both.

I respect your opinion, but would you agree this team is failing to demonstrate reasonable defensive proficiency thus far & the problem must be corrected ASAP? I know it is early, but the lack of defensive commitment & concentration thus far is disturbing. Blocks, yes, good defense, no!

Quote from: fordham96 on November 29, 2013, 09:47:26 PM

Quote from: tnice on November 29, 2013, 09:43:16 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on November 29, 2013, 09:31:56 PM

Quote from: Chilleb on November 29, 2013, 09:24:35 PM

I've been pretty much quiet up until this game... but wtf  goes on in our practices. we have the worst iq in the country. i though this is why we bought whitsell in

IQ is not fair.  Harrison makes both free throws and are you saying how DUMB PSU is for fouling Harrison? 

Were they dumb when they made the 18-3 run?

This team can score.  But they cannot fall behind by 15 in the second half and try to fight back.  These bad starts are going to burn them.   It is going to define the season.

You have to be kidding me. We are one of the lowest IQ teams I've ever seen. That  team with this much experience makes these kind of mistakes is mind blowing. Sampsons shot selection, the fouls beyond the three line out to halfcourt, the horrible decision making on the break, the cluelessness in either defense. Just because they made a run doesn't mean theyre not dumb...they are.

Bottom line is this...after all the stupidity, we had the ball and a two point lead in OT and Obekpa inexplicably  tried to throw a long outlet pass in to double coverage that would make Eli Manning proud instead of just handing the ball to Greene. That was the ballgame right there. Not even debatable.

PSU blew a 15 lead and had a foul at the end of the game if SJU was them you would be saying that was the dumbest team.

They made critical mistakes down the stretch costing them the game that happens a lot.  In fact it is how a lot of close games get decided, 1 team makes a bad mistake.  Happens all the time it is just that you don't root for all teams you root for SJU.

I get it I am mad as well, thought they pulled it out in regulation.  If they are 15-15 at the end of the year with 10 losses by 4 points or less when they led in the second half then you can call them a dumb team.  1 loss to a decent (not great but not bad PSU team) is not evidence of a low IQ team. 

Agreed they need to tighten things up.  But relax.

Its tough to relax with this group. This was/is the season where this program takes the next step. We are more talented than PSU. They have two good players and thats pretty much it and they beat us in our own backyard. One of our main guys, Sampson, seems to have taken a step back in his delevopment since last year. Lavin keeps saying this team will mesh by January/February but this is a group that has been playing together for well over a year.

Im not saying that the sky is falling but I had high hopes that Lavin and company will find a way to get this talent to mesh and flirt with the top 25 for much of the season. This game just shows that we are no better than a middle of the pack team in an average conference

Now I understand why most publications had SJU between 6-8 in the conference.  This team is going to get smoked in conference play.

Quote from: fordham96 on November 29, 2013, 09:56:39 PM

Quote from: Chilleb on November 29, 2013, 09:51:59 PM

and shoot me if you don't agree but harrison has to make that free-throw. he can't have this macho swag and get out dueled by tim frazier at the end of the game in a freethrow duel. first team all big east right.. doug mcdermott is not missing that free-throw .. harrison has to put the game away.

Agreed.  But it is not the end of the world.

He is going to make more game winning plays then he will failing on the FT line.  But he needed to make both.

I respect your opinion, but would you agree this team is failing to demonstrate reasonable defensive proficiency thus far & the problem must be corrected ASAP? I know it is early, but the lack of defensive commitment & concentration thus far is disturbing. Blocks, yes, good defense, no!

Well it did get corrected at least to some extent in the second half.

Guards like Harrison need to understand that the game is called much tighter now and that is the staff's job and failure so far.

+

Glad this wasn't on TV. So is Lavin I guess

+1

Quote from: tnice on November 29, 2013, 09:43:16 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on November 29, 2013, 09:31:56 PM

Quote from: Chilleb on November 29, 2013, 09:24:35 PM

I've been pretty much quiet up until this game... but wtf  goes on in our practices. we have the worst iq in the country. i though this is why we bought whitsell in

IQ is not fair.  Harrison makes both free throws and are you saying how DUMB PSU is for fouling Harrison? 

Were they dumb when they made the 18-3 run?

This team can score.  But they cannot fall behind by 15 in the second half and try to fight back.  These bad starts are going to burn them.   It is going to define the season.

You have to be kidding me. We are one of the lowest IQ teams I've ever seen. That  team with this much experience makes these kind of mistakes is mind blowing. Sampsons shot selection, the fouls beyond the three line out to halfcourt, the horrible decision making on the break, the cluelessness in either defense. Just because they made a run doesn't mean theyre not dumb...they are.

Bottom line is this...after all the stupidity, we had the ball and a two point lead in OT and Obekpa inexplicably  tried to throw a long outlet pass in to double coverage that would make Eli Manning proud instead of just handing the ball to Greene. That was the ballgame right there. Not even debatable.

PSU blew a 15 lead and had a foul at the end of the game if SJU was them you would be saying that was the dumbest team.

They made critical mistakes down the stretch costing them the game that happens a lot.  In fact it is how a lot of close games get decided, 1 team makes a bad mistake.  Happens all the time it is just that you don't root for all teams you root for SJU.

I get it I am mad as well, thought they pulled it out in regulation.  If they are 15-15 at the end of the year with 10 losses by 4 points or less when they led in the second half then you can call them a dumb team.  1 loss to a decent (not great but not bad PSU team) is not evidence of a low IQ team. 

Agreed they need to tighten things up.  But relax.

Please, don't try to pat me on the head and explain basketball to me. You made the "if Harrison hits the free throws its no big deal" argument the first time and I disagreed with you. I'm doing it again. Penn State blew a 15 point lead because they gout out played and a little tired and started missing shots, not because they played dumb, like we did. I know the difference, thanks.

We are now nearly 70 games into the careers of Greene, Pointer and Harrison and 40 into the careers of Obekpa and Sampson. They are making the same stupid mistakes theyve always made, individually and collectively. The reason people like me are getting a little pissed is its not just six games and gee, cant everyone relax. Its going on three years with some of this stuff.The whole reason for the high hopes for this year was our talent AND OUR EXPERIENCE. Well if you're D'Angelo Harrison and you have four fouls and you get your fifth 45 feet from the basket on a play where you look like a d back knocking a receiver out of bounds after a short pass, then apparently your experience isn't helping you. We didn't just make a mistake or two down the stretch...we made a shitload of them, all game long.

Believe me, I'm not a fly off the handle guy, which is why I hardly post here during the freakout sessions that characterize this board. But today was just too much of the same nonsense. We should be further along than this. Right now the idea that this team is going to miraculously gel and make a big late season run in 15 games is a pipe dream, IMHO.

Team sucks now. Hopefully they won't suck when it matters most. Have my doubts though.

You betya!

Quote from: fordham96 on November 29, 2013, 09:47:26 PM

Quote from: tnice on November 29, 2013, 09:43:16 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on November 29, 2013, 09:31:56 PM

Quote from: Chilleb on November 29, 2013, 09:24:35 PM

I've been pretty much quiet up until this game... but wtf  goes on in our practices. we have the worst iq in the country. i though this is why we bought whitsell in

IQ is not fair.  Harrison makes both free throws and are you saying how DUMB PSU is for fouling Harrison? 

Were they dumb when they made the 18-3 run?

This team can score.  But they cannot fall behind by 15 in the second half and try to fight back.  These bad starts are going to burn them.   It is going to define the season.

You have to be kidding me. We are one of the lowest IQ teams I've ever seen. That  team with this much experience makes these kind of mistakes is mind blowing. Sampsons shot selection, the fouls beyond the three line out to halfcourt, the horrible decision making on the break, the cluelessness in either defense. Just because they made a run doesn't mean theyre not dumb...they are.

Bottom line is this...after all the stupidity, we had the ball and a two point lead in OT and Obekpa inexplicably  tried to throw a long outlet pass in to double coverage that would make Eli Manning proud instead of just handing the ball to Greene. That was the ballgame right there. Not even debatable.

PSU blew a 15 lead and had a foul at the end of the game if SJU was them you would be saying that was the dumbest team.

They made critical mistakes down the stretch costing them the game that happens a lot.  In fact it is how a lot of close games get decided, 1 team makes a bad mistake.  Happens all the time it is just that you don't root for all teams you root for SJU.

I get it I am mad as well, thought they pulled it out in regulation.  If they are 15-15 at the end of the year with 10 losses by 4 points or less when they led in the second half then you can call them a dumb team.  1 loss to a decent (not great but not bad PSU team) is not evidence of a low IQ team. 

Agreed they need to tighten things up.  But relax.

Please, don't try to pat me on the head and explain basketball to me. You made the "if Harrison hits the free throws its no big deal" argument the first time and I disagreed with you. I'm doing it again. Penn State blew a 15 point lead because they gout out played and a little tired and started missing shots, not because they played dumb, like we did. I know the difference, thanks.

We are now nearly 70 games into the careers of Greene, Pointer and Harrison and 40 into the careers of Obekpa and Sampson. They are making the same stupid mistakes theyve always made, individually and collectively. The reason people like me are getting a little pissed is its not just six games and gee, cant everyone relax. Its going on three years with some of this stuff.The whole reason for the high hopes for this year was our talent AND OUR EXPERIENCE. Well if you're D'Angelo Harrison and you have four fouls and you get your fifth 45 feet from the basket on a play where you look like a d back knocking a receiver out of bounds after a short pass, then apparently your experience isn't helping you. We didn't just make a mistake or two down the stretch...we made a shitload of them, all game long.

Believe me, I'm not a fly off the handle guy, which is why I hardly post here during the freakout sessions that characterize this board. But today was just too much of the same nonsense. We should be further along than this. Right now the idea that this team is going to miraculously gel and make a big late season run in 15 games is a pipe dream, IMHO.

I don't care what you think, does that make things easier for you?

Quote from: paultzman on November 29, 2013, 10:06:13 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on November 29, 2013, 09:56:39 PM

Quote from: Chilleb on November 29, 2013, 09:51:59 PM

and shoot me if you don't agree but harrison has to make that free-throw. he can't have this macho swag and get out dueled by tim frazier at the end of the game in a freethrow duel. first team all big east right.. doug mcdermott is not missing that free-throw .. harrison has to put the game away.

Agreed.  But it is not the end of the world.

He is going to make more game winning plays then he will failing on the FT line.  But he needed to make both.

I respect your opinion, but would you agree this team is failing to demonstrate reasonable defensive proficiency thus far & the problem must be corrected ASAP? I know it is early, but the lack of defensive commitment & concentration thus far is disturbing. Blocks, yes, good defense, no!

Well it did get corrected at least to some extent in the second half.

Guards like Harrison need to understand that the game is called much tighter now and that is the staff's job and failure so far.

Agree