What do we need to do to start better?

by far our biggest issue this year.

we are at our best when the team is playing with energy and a sense of desperation. i think we need to start pressing aggressively and trapping.  make it a free for all from the start.   a month into the season and still starting this way is unacceptable.

by far our biggest issue this year.

we are at our best when the team is playing with energy and a sense of desperation. i think we need to start pressing aggressively and trapping.  make it a free for all from the start.   a month into the season and still starting this way is unacceptable.

I don't think that is a bad idea in some ways.  We start slowly and methodically, play better when we warm up.  Maybe starting at a different pace and aggressiveness-level defensively would help get us in the mind-set to crush the opponent from the start.  Maybe we are letting teams get too comfortable scoring on us early.  Look at opponents shooting percentages in the first half vs second halves.  Conversely, our shooting percentages usually are much better second half. 

Seems solution lies in cutting teams shooting percentages and increasing caused turnovers in the first half would help blunt the early gains if not reverse them.  If we are going to go down 15-20 points early, might as well put their feet to the fire...

In my opinion Lavin tinkers with the lineup too much, in the second half he goes with out studs, and it usually pays dividends. Dom needs to start, with Dee, Sheed, karr and Obekpa.

Sign a PG with a brain

have some Red Bull start Sheed (he's the future),  take it inside, set picks and move without the ball and play consistent  D.

Agree that Rysheed needs to play.  He won't get better without doing so, and we need his ability to pass and penetrate out there.  He's also a very dynamic scorer.  We've only seen a tiny glimpse of what he can do.  He needs to be unleashed a bit.

Last night was the first time that i saw Rysheed actually running the offense, since one of the early exhibition games, rather than just being on the floor.  Hopefully the lightbulb just went on and he realizes that he needs to be the floor leader even though he is a freshman.  We need that desperately.

Sign a PG with a brain

We got the #3 pg coming out of HS this past year.  Look him up.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on December 01, 2013, 09:00:38 AM

Sign a PG with a brain

We got the #3 pg coming out of HS this past year.  Look him up.

And branch was #2 in his class I think

Quote from: simplyred on December 01, 2013, 10:05:20 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on December 01, 2013, 09:00:38 AM

Sign a PG with a brain

We got the #3 pg coming out of HS this past year.  Look him up.

And branch was #2 in his class I think

Rankings?  Who cares?  Branch was ranked higher than Shane Larkin, Trey Burke, Nadir Tharpe etc.

Id take Branch and Jordan over Tharpe.  We have top talent at every position and have experience.  It's pretty clearly on Lavin.

Lavin should just press like crazy and sub like a hockey coach.

It's the only way to keep the most talented roster in the BE tired and happy.

If that does not work he can hand it over to Linda for her to figure out.

First five or ten trips on offense we have to attempt to penetrate...like a football team establishing the run before it opens things up.

To get off to a better start I think Branch and Dom need to start along with Harrison / Sampson / CO.  Branch is the only guard who is penetrating.  Until Jordan or Greene decide to start doing that...Branch should get the most minutes.  I'm OK with a few turnovers from Branch if he's creating easy baskets for our bigs.

 

First five or ten trips on offense we have to attempt to penetrate...like a football team establishing the run before it opens things up.

I agree fully.  It seems that we come out and try to figure out what the defense is willing to give us (invariably, 3 pt shots), rather than attacking the defense with the offense we want to run.   One positive is that we have outscored every opponent we've played in the second half.  Once we figure out how not to fall so far behind, we should do well.

Penetration is clearly important, but unfortunately our success will come down to shooting, too. Hooper, as frustrated as I am with his inability or interest in doing more than just chucking needs to be out there because all we got. Harrison can't do it alone. I actually think Branch is the starting point guard this season. I thank Mr.Greene for his contributions when no one else was ready to play, but someone needs to run the offense. And in regards to making plays, Sampson, Gift, Sanchez and Gift have get tougher inside. Dunk the damn ball. Stop w the fade away crap. You're not Karl Malone.

Lavin said that the press won't become the focal point of our defense. I don't know what he's talking about anymore. Why the hell wouldn't you keep doing what just worked? Are we going zone against SU? They'll have a field day w our bullshit excuse for a zone defense.

Man up and press, and do it until you f'n drop. What is the point in having depth if we still play like scared little girls?

If we pressed for a full game you can kiss goodbye Harrison's 30mpg, and Sampson and Obekpa would need a lot more rest too.   And then you're playing more of the game with your best players on the bench.

Basketball is not a track meet.  Even the teams that play at the fastest tempos still end up scoring most of their points in the half court.   Do you think if we press for 40 minutes all of a sudden we'll get 30 steals and score 50+ points off breakaway dunks?   
Not going to happen.   And in the process we'll pickup a ton of fouls and give up probably just as many open 3's or layups because we're stretched so far.

The press is a weapon, and it certainly looks like one Lavin should use more often; but we'll still only go as far as our half-court offense and defense take us.   
You can slice it a lot of different ways, but at the end of the day almost every basketball team ends up playing 80% of possessions in the halfcourt.   
Press or not, that's what needs to improve.

  Stop penetration when we're on defense, and get some penetration on the other end so we're not settling for long 2's.   
That cannot be repeated enough.   

I didn't see lavins quotes but the presses worked great, albeit against a team who ha four turnovers in the first five possesions in the game. Let the team press from the start. If it's effective keep it up, if not have them slow it down.  Rysheeds defense was great yesterday, this team lives off of energy and there is no energy in our half court game.

If we pressed for a full game you can kiss goodbye Harrison's 30mpg, and Sampson and Obekpa would need a lot more rest too.   And then you're playing more of the game with your best players on the bench.

Basketball is not a track meet.  Even the teams that play at the fastest tempos still end up scoring most of their points in the half court.   Do you think if we press for 40 minutes all of a sudden we'll get 30 steals and score 50+ points off breakaway dunks?   
Not going to happen.   And in the process we'll pickup a ton of fouls and give up probably just as many open 3's or layups because we're stretched so far.

The press is a weapon, and it certainly looks like one Lavin should use more often; but we'll still only go as far as our half-court offense and defense take us.   
You can slice it a lot of different ways, but at the end of the day almost every basketball team ends up playing 80% of possessions in the halfcourt.   
Press or not, that's what needs to improve.

  Stop penetration when we're on defense, and get some penetration on the other end so we're not settling for long 2's.   
That cannot be repeated enough.   

I think they definitely need to start out in it though.  We can't afford to sit around and not play for the first 5-10 minutes in the game.

Before we all get carried away with the press, please remember that the press giveth and the press taketh away. Against a team like G Tech, sure its going to work and it did. But against teams who are disciplined or who are more equal to SJU athletically it may yield more easy buckets than its worth in turnovers. We press Cuse like that and I'll bet a million dollars they cut us up like paper dolls. As poor as we are in defensive fundamentals in the halfcourt (JaKarr Sampson, white courtesy phone!) trying to defend over a full court can magnify those deficiencies, no matter how athletic you are. I just find the idea that we've now found our identity as a "94 feet of heat" team to be a little too simple a solution.

Press or no, it still comes down to being able to run a halfcourt offense. You know what the best cure is for slow starts offensively? Easy buckets early. Teams are going to zone the shit out of us and dare us to make jumpers. You miss those first couple and all of a sudden the pressure starts to build. ( Stop me if any of this seems familiar). Penetration is nice, but tougher against a packed in zone. So, as chillb pointed out in another thread, the ball has to move, and not just from wing to top to wing. It has to move in and out, it has to get to the baseline. They have to go over the top sometimes. ( When Branch threw the alley oop to JKS in the half court offense yesterday I near to passed out. Been screaming about that for three years now. MORE PLEASE). Saw some improvement in that regard yesterday, hopefully Whitesell will be pushing the ball movement angle a little harder in the next couple of weeks.