Playing Up-Tempo Ball

Also, fwiw, I think there can be a big difference in how you press.   I think BballPurist mentioned it above.
I would much rather see us apply full court man on man pressure with our guards, then to trap.   I didn't see a lot of trapping against Georgia tech.
I worry that if we start trapping then you'll get odd man situations for the offense, leaving us chasing wide open 3pt shooters.   

But if we're going to let Dom/Phil/Jamal/Rhysheed pickup their men off the inbound, that's fine.   I think that could work nicely.   Even if we don't create a turnover, at the very least it may make the offense bring help, and then we have non-point guards handling the ball.   Plus, ideally, it forces them to use 10secs off the shot clock, rather than getting the ball across in a second or two.   Doesn't sound like a lot, but the shot clock just became 8 seconds shorter... that makes a difference.

Not to mention going up against full court pressure for big chunks of time really really takes a toll on the guards trying to get the ball up the court. That's what I remember most from my playing days.  That's where having depth comes in. Both branch and Rysheed should go all out while they are in. That's why they have eachother.

Quote from: loughlinguy on December 04, 2013, 10:46:05 AM

Jordan, Sanchez, Hooper all new, Gift sat out year, Marco played little and only one semester. This team does not comapre to the Hardy team in experience--they were both older chronologically and 4 year seniors who had played major roles .

Sanchez is 25 years old. He's played pro ball. His performance has been dismal. Lavin has brought in more talent than we're used to, but he's the one who hyped up these guys. Maybe he should get the hell off if Twitter, and stop saying outrageous shit about recruits?

The fact is, several players have improved. And several players have regressed. No one has made that jump. We play SU on the 15th. Check out this scrub Trevor Cooney. Who the hell is that? That's who Max Hooper and Marco Bourgault should be.

Other than maybe Sampson, who else has regressed?  Branch showed flashes of brilliance last year and this year, but still can't seem to put it together consistently.  Phil is better.  Dom is about the same.  Obekpa's playing better.  Marco is still invisible.  D'Lo is no worse than last year, although I hoped his shot selection would be much better than it has been thus far.  Lipscomb is killing it (joke).  The rest didn't play last year or are not playing this year. 

I don't know how you could call this team "inexperienced" at this point.

Are they inexperienced in regards to proper development?

Great thread with a lot of varying opinions. I like it, everyone is thinking.

I'll chime in with some thoughts of my own.

-I think this team should extend the defense more often. The best asset this team has is their length and depth why not disrupt other team's flow and try to manufacture some offense from defense? This team is relying on the block shot far too often and isn't getting enough ball deflections on the perimeter.

-Playing uptempo requires rebounding and taking care of the basketball which this team is better than people will give credit. This isn't the problem here and when you run uptempo guys get hungrier on the boards because they want to run. This team hasn't done a good job at all of "counter punching" as Lavin would call it and get quick transition baskets.

-WASJU has a valid point that in order to be an uptempo team you have a to be a good shooting team. If you're taking quicker shots that means you're either making/missing more shots. This is why the team often runs false motion (aka the weave at the top of the key) taking off 10 seconds per possession to limit the other team's amount of possessions. This is a trademark of poor shooting teams.

-Harrison, Greene are just awful shot selectors. Harrison is like a poor man's Scottie Reynolds where he will put up chunks of points but hover around that 39-40% shooting. Why they settle for some awful shots when they should penetrate in the lane and get to the line is beyond me. When Lavin first took over the biggest difference was the aggressiveness and effort in getting to the free-throw line. 609 FTA in '09/10 to 783 FTA in '10/11 and last year this team went to the line 575 times. Awful! Greene and Harrison are both so good finishing with contact. I can say the same for Pointer, Branch, and even Sampson.

This team needs to realize and push the issue of I'm bigger, I'm faster, I'm stronger. Try to get past me, try to stop me.

Harrison's FG% should have an asterik. He has to shoot a lot and I would rather him take a bad shot than others take a "good" shot. Harrison rep as a "shooter" is a little over blown I will admit. He is more scorer than knockdown shooter. He is def a vlume scorer but if we had other scoreres his % would be better.

Quote from: Dave on December 04, 2013, 01:27:28 AM

Great thread with a lot of varying opinions. I like it, everyone is thinking.

I'll chime in with some thoughts of my own.

-I think this team should extend the defense more often. The best asset this team has is their length and depth why not disrupt other team's flow and try to manufacture some offense from defense? This team is relying on the block shot far too often and isn't getting enough ball deflections on the perimeter.

-Playing uptempo requires rebounding and taking care of the basketball which this team is better than people will give credit. This isn't the problem here and when you run uptempo guys get hungrier on the boards because they want to run. This team hasn't done a good job at all of "counter punching" as Lavin would call it and get quick transition baskets.

-WASJU has a valid point that in order to be an uptempo team you have a to be a good shooting team. If you're taking quicker shots that means you're either making/missing more shots. This is why the team often runs false motion (aka the weave at the top of the key) taking off 10 seconds per possession to limit the other team's amount of possessions. This is a trademark of poor shooting teams.

-Harrison, Greene are just awful shot selectors. Harrison is like a poor man's Scottie Reynolds where he will put up chunks of points but hover around that 39-40% shooting. Why they settle for some awful shots when they should penetrate in the lane and get to the line is beyond me. When Lavin first took over the biggest difference was the aggressiveness and effort in getting to the free-throw line. 609 FTA in '09/10 to 783 FTA in '10/11 and last year this team went to the line 575 times. Awful! Greene and Harrison are both so good finishing with contact. I can say the same for Pointer, Branch, and even Sampson.

This team needs to realize and push the issue of I'm bigger, I'm faster, I'm stronger. Try to get past me, try to stop me.

Harrison's FG% should have an asterik. He has to shoot a lot and I would rather him take a bad shot than others take a "good" shot. Harrison rep as a "shooter" is a little over blown I will admit. He is more scorer than knockdown shooter. He is def a vlume scorer but if we had other scoreres his % would be better.

FWIW, when playing with Moe, Harrison's shooting % was actually slighly worse than it was last year and this year (thus far) 2011-12: 37.4%; 2012-13: 39.4%; and 2013-14: 38.7%.  Of course, the flip side is that Harrison improved his shooting percentage from his first year while he has been the main focus of the opposing team's defense, and if there was at least one other viable scoring threat on the team, you could speculate that his shooting percentage would have improved even more.

I don't like pressing man-to-man.  I'd prefer the Louisville matchup press to that.  I also wouldn't mind an aggressive zone press.

Always pressure the ball, use the sidelines as an extra defender, trap anything you can, and try to force as many cross-court passes as possible. 

Quote from: we are sju on December 04, 2013, 12:54:13 PM

Quote from: Dave on December 04, 2013, 01:27:28 AM

Great thread with a lot of varying opinions. I like it, everyone is thinking.

I'll chime in with some thoughts of my own.

-I think this team should extend the defense more often. The best asset this team has is their length and depth why not disrupt other team's flow and try to manufacture some offense from defense? This team is relying on the block shot far too often and isn't getting enough ball deflections on the perimeter.

-Playing uptempo requires rebounding and taking care of the basketball which this team is better than people will give credit. This isn't the problem here and when you run uptempo guys get hungrier on the boards because they want to run. This team hasn't done a good job at all of "counter punching" as Lavin would call it and get quick transition baskets.

-WASJU has a valid point that in order to be an uptempo team you have a to be a good shooting team. If you're taking quicker shots that means you're either making/missing more shots. This is why the team often runs false motion (aka the weave at the top of the key) taking off 10 seconds per possession to limit the other team's amount of possessions. This is a trademark of poor shooting teams.

-Harrison, Greene are just awful shot selectors. Harrison is like a poor man's Scottie Reynolds where he will put up chunks of points but hover around that 39-40% shooting. Why they settle for some awful shots when they should penetrate in the lane and get to the line is beyond me. When Lavin first took over the biggest difference was the aggressiveness and effort in getting to the free-throw line. 609 FTA in '09/10 to 783 FTA in '10/11 and last year this team went to the line 575 times. Awful! Greene and Harrison are both so good finishing with contact. I can say the same for Pointer, Branch, and even Sampson.

This team needs to realize and push the issue of I'm bigger, I'm faster, I'm stronger. Try to get past me, try to stop me.

Harrison's FG% should have an asterik. He has to shoot a lot and I would rather him take a bad shot than others take a "good" shot. Harrison rep as a "shooter" is a little over blown I will admit. He is more scorer than knockdown shooter. He is def a vlume scorer but if we had other scoreres his % would be better.

FWIW, when playing with Moe, Harrison's shooting % was actually slighly worse than it was last year and this year (thus far) 2011-12: 37.4%; 2012-13: 39.4%; and 2013-14: 38.7%.  Of course, the flip side is that Harrison improved his shooting percentage from his first year while he has been the main focus of the opposing team's defense, and if there was at least one other viable scoring threat on the team, you could speculate that his shooting percentage would have improved even more.

D'Angelo's effective FG% is 27th in the Beast, so it's not as bad just as you said.  However, D'Lo's effective FG% has gone from 46.5, 46.8, to 44.3%.  So there is a slight slip on efficiency due to increased load on him.

 He has to shoot a lot and I would rather him take a bad shot than others take a "good" shot.

I used to agree, but now I'm not so sure.  We've seen the results of that policy.  He's basically had a green light for 3 years.  Even when Moe was here, Harrison could do what he wanted.   I agree he's our best player, but I'm not convinced anymore that D'angelo taking a contested 3 , or one from 30ft is a higher percentage shot than the one we get from Dom, Phil, Jakarr, Rhysheed etc if he moves the ball around.   

I don't think "he has to carry the team" should be an excuse anymore for taking bad shots.   If ball movement and penetration are the things we're trying to rectify; D'angelo has to be part of the solution too considering how often he touches the ball. 

They are basketball players and great athletes...   take the choke collars off them and let them play a little..

They are basketball players and great athletes...   take the choke collars off them and let them play a little..

I said for years it might be more enjoyable to lock the coaches in a room and just roll the ball out there.

Quote from: pmg911 on December 04, 2013, 03:33:22 PM

They are basketball players and great athletes...   take the choke collars off them and let them play a little..

I said for years it might be more enjoyable to lock the coaches in a room and just roll the ball out there.

I thought you hated Jarvis 

Quote from: Moose on December 04, 2013, 03:44:28 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on December 04, 2013, 03:33:22 PM

They are basketball players and great athletes...   take the choke collars off them and let them play a little..

I said for years it might be more enjoyable to lock the coaches in a room and just roll the ball out there.

I thought you hated Jarvis 

I hate everybody

Jordan, Sanchez, Hooper all new, Gift sat out year, Marco played little and only one semester. This team does not comapre to the Hardy team in experience--they were both older chronologically and 4 year seniors who had played major roles .

Yeah but it was only Hardy and Brownlees 2nd year playing together. I wouldnt consider them 4 year seniors in the sense that they didnt play together 4 years.

Sanchez,Hooper,Gift were all around practice last year so it's not like they dont know what Lavin is trying to implement

 What is so aggravating as a fan is that this should have been all figured out already..

These kids have been playing with each other for a while..  They went to Europe together and played games.. That time should have been used to figure rotations and style.  Not in the beginning of December.

What is so aggravating as a fan is that this should have been all figured out already..

These kids have been playing with each other for a while..  They went to Europe together and played games.. That time should have been used to figure rotations and style.  Not in the beginning of December.

Lavin really seems unprepared for games. There really isn't an explanation for it. Clearly, they were just f'n around in Europe.

We were all expecting Whitesell to fill in for his weaknesses, but seriously, a head coach has to be good at the coaching part of the game. Fordham is slaughtering Furman right now. I don't think it's that unreasonable anymore to think we could lose.
If you look at their guard core, it's not much different than when Hofstra featured Agudio, Stokes and Rivers. All 3 of which would have been our best player.

Lavin would get destroyed in the media for losing that game. It doesn't matter if Fordham is improved, he has to get his team ready for a game. Enough is enough.

Quote from: Poison on December 04, 2013, 11:14:58 AM

Quote from: loughlinguy on December 04, 2013, 10:46:05 AM

Jordan, Sanchez, Hooper all new, Gift sat out year, Marco played little and only one semester. This team does not comapre to the Hardy team in experience--they were both older chronologically and 4 year seniors who had played major roles .

Sanchez is 25 years old. He's played pro ball. His performance has been dismal. Lavin has brought in more talent than we're used to, but he's the one who hyped up these guys. Maybe he should get the hell off if Twitter, and stop saying outrageous shit about recruits?

The fact is, several players have improved. And several players have regressed. No one has made that jump. We play SU on the 15th. Check out this scrub Trevor Cooney. Who the hell is that? That's who Max Hooper and Marco Bourgault should be.

Other than maybe Sampson, who else has regressed?  Branch showed flashes of brilliance last year and this year, but still can't seem to put it together consistently.  Phil is better.  Dom is about the same.  Obekpa's playing better.  Marco is still invisible.  D'Lo is no worse than last year, although I hoped his shot selection would be much better than it has been thus far.  Lipscomb is killing it (joke).  The rest didn't play last year or are not playing this year. 

I think Branch played well for a stretch last year when he was the THE guy to run the offense. Now, because Jordan isn't ready, and I guess because he's been careless w the ball, we are actually playing w out a point guard. I'd say he's really underachieving, but to say he's regressed at this point would be premature. Still, it's time for him tow the line.

Quote from: Dave on December 04, 2013, 01:27:28 AM

Great thread with a lot of varying opinions. I like it, everyone is thinking.

I'll chime in with some thoughts of my own.

-I think this team should extend the defense more often. The best asset this team has is their length and depth why not disrupt other team's flow and try to manufacture some offense from defense? This team is relying on the block shot far too often and isn't getting enough ball deflections on the perimeter.

-Playing uptempo requires rebounding and taking care of the basketball which this team is better than people will give credit. This isn't the problem here and when you run uptempo guys get hungrier on the boards because they want to run. This team hasn't done a good job at all of "counter punching" as Lavin would call it and get quick transition baskets.

-WASJU has a valid point that in order to be an uptempo team you have a to be a good shooting team. If you're taking quicker shots that means you're either making/missing more shots. This is why the team often runs false motion (aka the weave at the top of the key) taking off 10 seconds per possession to limit the other team's amount of possessions. This is a trademark of poor shooting teams.

-Harrison, Greene are just awful shot selectors. Harrison is like a poor man's Scottie Reynolds where he will put up chunks of points but hover around that 39-40% shooting. Why they settle for some awful shots when they should penetrate in the lane and get to the line is beyond me. When Lavin first took over the biggest difference was the aggressiveness and effort in getting to the free-throw line. 609 FTA in '09/10 to 783 FTA in '10/11 and last year this team went to the line 575 times. Awful! Greene and Harrison are both so good finishing with contact. I can say the same for Pointer, Branch, and even Sampson.

This team needs to realize and push the issue of I'm bigger, I'm faster, I'm stronger. Try to get past me, try to stop me.

Harrison's FG% should have an asterik. He has to shoot a lot and I would rather him take a bad shot than others take a "good" shot. Harrison rep as a "shooter" is a little over blown I will admit. He is more scorer than knockdown shooter. He is def a vlume scorer but if we had other scoreres his % would be better.

He doesn't have to take so many of the low % shots that he takes...He should drive before taking many of the shots he takes

Quote from: boo3 on December 04, 2013, 07:46:52 PM

What is so aggravating as a fan is that this should have been all figured out already..

These kids have been playing with each other for a while..  They went to Europe together and played games.. That time should have been used to figure rotations and style.  Not in the beginning of December.

Lavin really seems unprepared for games. There really isn't an explanation for it. Clearly, they were just f'n around in Europe.

We were all expecting Whitesell to fill in for his weaknesses, but seriously, a head coach has to be good at the coaching part of the game. Fordham is slaughtering Furman right now. I don't think it's that unreasonable anymore to think we could lose.
If you look at their guard core, it's not much different than when Hofstra featured Agudio, Stokes and Rivers. All 3 of which would have been our best player.

Lavin would get destroyed in the media for losing that game. It doesn't matter if Fordham is improved, he has to get his team ready for a game. Enough is enough.

Furman? They suck...

If we lose to Fordham, it won't be b

Quote from: boo3 on December 04, 2013, 07:46:52 PM

What is so aggravating as a fan is that this should have been all figured out already..

These kids have been playing with each other for a while..  They went to Europe together and played games.. That time should have been used to figure rotations and style.  Not in the beginning of December.

Lavin really seems unprepared for games. There really isn't an explanation for it. Clearly, they were just f'n around in Europe.

We were all expecting Whitesell to fill in for his weaknesses, but seriously, a head coach has to be good at the coaching part of the game. Fordham is slaughtering Furman right now. I don't think it's that unreasonable anymore to think we could lose.
If you look at their guard core, it's not much different than when Hofstra featured Agudio, Stokes and Rivers. All 3 of which would have been our best player.

Lavin would get destroyed in the media for losing that game. It doesn't matter if Fordham is improved, he has to get his team ready for a game. Enough is enough.

Let's not overestimate Fordham's talent...if we lose, it will be because we looked past them...saying they improved is not saying much

Quote from: Dave on December 04, 2013, 01:27:28 AM

Great thread with a lot of varying opinions. I like it, everyone is thinking.

I'll chime in with some thoughts of my own.

-I think this team should extend the defense more often. The best asset this team has is their length and depth why not disrupt other team's flow and try to manufacture some offense from defense? This team is relying on the block shot far too often and isn't getting enough ball deflections on the perimeter.

-Playing uptempo requires rebounding and taking care of the basketball which this team is better than people will give credit. This isn't the problem here and when you run uptempo guys get hungrier on the boards because they want to run. This team hasn't done a good job at all of "counter punching" as Lavin would call it and get quick transition baskets.

-WASJU has a valid point that in order to be an uptempo team you have a to be a good shooting team. If you're taking quicker shots that means you're either making/missing more shots. This is why the team often runs false motion (aka the weave at the top of the key) taking off 10 seconds per possession to limit the other team's amount of possessions. This is a trademark of poor shooting teams.

-Harrison, Greene are just awful shot selectors. Harrison is like a poor man's Scottie Reynolds where he will put up chunks of points but hover around that 39-40% shooting. Why they settle for some awful shots when they should penetrate in the lane and get to the line is beyond me. When Lavin first took over the biggest difference was the aggressiveness and effort in getting to the free-throw line. 609 FTA in '09/10 to 783 FTA in '10/11 and last year this team went to the line 575 times. Awful! Greene and Harrison are both so good finishing with contact. I can say the same for Pointer, Branch, and even Sampson.

This team needs to realize and push the issue of I'm bigger, I'm faster, I'm stronger. Try to get past me, try to stop me.

Harrison's FG% should have an asterik. He has to shoot a lot and I would rather him take a bad shot than others take a "good" shot. Harrison rep as a "shooter" is a little over blown I will admit. He is more scorer than knockdown shooter. He is def a vlume scorer but if we had other scoreres his % would be better.

Harrison is a "scorer" with deep range. Far from a "shooter" imo