Xavier Game Thread

Gift played because at-least he will try and put a body on someone. I thought it was a good move. Still do. He is limited on offense to the point that I don't have faith in him to catch a basketball. In the 1st half I thought he did his job. I am all  for him never playing, But obekpa and sanchez have to toughen up  and try and box someone out.

I know there are many factors why we lost this game but for the third time this year  Samson has killed momentum in a crucial part of the game and then our team fell apart. The first instance was against penn state fouling the best shooter for them up  2  and sending kid to line who hit all 3. Yes we could of won game if Harrison makes both free throws but he didn't and we lose.

Second, against cuse, he has a chance to keep game in a one possession game and misses both free throws and we fall apart and lose.

Then today, 3 on 1 break down 4,  he has no spacing from Harrison, gets ball in paint and turns it over. Momentum killer and we fall apart, yet again and lose.

Not saying all 3 games we win but it just seems as though he somehow was in middle of 3 big plays and he can't come up with a positive play.  Kid is good, but he has to be the good that helps this team win and with our margine of error, this type of stuff hurts our team.. Sju players feed off him and Harrison and if these 2 can't become consistently good at turning points of game,  it will be tough all yr to win close games.

Probably nit picking but these things just keep happening in the big game situations.

I agree 100%, he gets into a zone where he forgets he is on a team. He oozes potential, but is so out of control. Blowing the fast break to get the lead down to two and they got a fast break going the other way to take lead to 6. It was over then. We just can't shoot, we had makeable shots that rimmed out, that's who we are. If we can't win with our defense we are NIT bound.

My my how our expectations are decreasing by the minute.  We started out with such expectations of being a sweet 16 team, to a solid NCAA team, to a bubble NCAA team to a ( if this team loses it's first three games) hopeful NIT team?

Outside of one good game against a mediocre Fordham team, what has this team shown to date?  In fact what has this program shown in the last three years, two top 10 recruited classes?  Big deal.  If you don't do it on the court it don't mean diddly.

The last win over a team that we were not favored to beat came three seasons ago at Cincinnati with a Mo Harkless tip in at the buzzer.  Other then that, the well has been dry.

I tried to watch the game today and not get too emotionally caught up in it as I knew disappointment would be the eventual emotion.  Aside from the substitution patterns as I will give Lavin a pass on that, the most horrific thing that I noticed was the lack of player development and understanding of the game?  Many on that other site had one excuse after another for the coaching staff and seem to want to blame it all on the players?  Personally, I'm not sure if it's entirely ones fault over the other.

In any close game, Dlo continues to put up bad, forced shots as though the situation was desperate.  Is that his fault or is Lavin relying on him too much to bail the team out, who knows? 

On one possession, Sanchez was at the top of the key and their big man raced out to guard him.  Since Sanchez is obviously faster and more mobile, a prudent thing to do would have been to blow by him and take it strong to the basket. Instead, he put up a three??

CO's offensive game has gone from mediocre to non existent and one has to wonder what was going in Pointer's head.

If it was just one player who was struggling it is one thing but it's many.  The list goes on from Gift to Hooper etc. etc. etc.  so what gives.  Any player who has a chance to score does it on their own accord ala Rysheed with great one on one moves to the basket. In terms of offensive sets, what sets.

And let's face it, we're it not for Xavier's horrendous shooting ( many shots were wide open looks ) at the start of the game, this would have been a 20 point loss. 

So what is the excuse?
A.  Inexperience
B.  poor coaching
C. Players with no basketball sense
D.  Overated players?

The reality is that we gave been playing the same brand of basketball for the past three seasons it's just that now, the excuses have run out.  One thing I do realize is how important coach Dunlap was to the program, as with the talent, depth and experience that we have, we should be doing much better then what the team has shown to date.

And for all my loyal supporters and haters as well, Happy New Year, may the Johnnies turn it around and become the successful program we all hoped they would be.

Peace

never heard a woman end with "peace"

mad respect

Quote from: Linda Mirabella on December 31, 2013, 05:40:11 PM

My my how our expectations are decreasing by the minute.  We started out with such expectations of being a sweet 16 team, to a solid NCAA team, to a bubble NCAA team to a ( if this team loses it's first three games) hopeful NIT team?

Outside of one good game against a mediocre Fordham team, what has this team shown to date?  In fact what has this program shown in the last three years, two top 10 recruited classes?  Big deal.  If you don't do it on the court it don't mean diddly.

The last win over a team that we were not favored to beat came three seasons ago at Cincinnati with a Mo Harkless tip in at the buzzer.  Other then that, the well has been dry.

I tried to watch the game today and not get too emotionally caught up in it as I knew disappointment would be the eventual emotion.  Aside from the substitution patterns as I will give Lavin a pass on that, the most horrific thing that I noticed was the lack of player development and understanding of the game?  Many on that other site had one excuse after another for the coaching staff and seem to want to blame it all on the players?  Personally, I'm not sure if it's entirely ones fault over the other.

In any close game, Dlo continues to put up bad, forced shots as though the situation was desperate.  Is that his fault or is Lavin relying on him too much to bail the team out, who knows? 

On one possession, Sanchez was at the top of the key and their big man raced out to guard him.  Since Sanchez is obviously faster and more mobile, a prudent thing to do would have been to blow by him and take it strong to the basket. Instead, he put up a three??

CO's offensive game has gone from mediocre to non existent and one has to wonder what was going in Pointer's head.

If it was just one player who was struggling it is one thing but it's many.  The list goes on from Gift to Hooper etc. etc. etc.  so what gives.  Any player who has a chance to score does it on their own accord ala Rysheed with great one on one moves to the basket. In terms of offensive sets, what sets.

And let's face it, we're it not for Xavier's horrendous shooting ( many shots were wide open looks ) at the start of the game, this would have been a 20 point loss. 

So what is the excuse?
A.  Inexperience
B.  poor coaching
C. Players with no basketball sense
D.  Overated players?

The reality is that we gave been playing the same brand of basketball for the past three seasons it's just that now, the excuses have run out.  One thing I do realize is how important coach Dunlap was to the program, as with the talent, depth and experience that we have, we should be doing much better then what the team has shown to date.

And for all my loyal supporters and haters as well, Happy New Year, may the Johnnies turn it around and become the successful program we all hoped they would be.

Peace

never heard a woman end with "peace"

mad respect

+1

I watched the game on tape was it mentioned why Rysheed didnt start?
If there was no reason then I put this lose squarely on lavin.

How can you (collectively) complain about the starting lineup when it worked so well?  We held them scoreless for the opening 8+ minutes and got out to a 9 - 0 lead when as you know we typically fall behind from the get go.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 31, 2013, 04:34:28 PM

I watched the game on tape was it mentioned why Rysheed didnt start?
If there was no reason then I put this lose squarely on lavin.

How can you (collectively) complain about the starting lineup when it worked so well?  We held them scoreless for the opening 8+ minutes and got out to a 9 - 0 lead when as you know we typically fall behind from the get go.

And the same lineup in the 2nd half got hosed.
Ever think Xavier was doing an SJU imitation at the start and me you and 3 other posters could have had the same result?

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on December 31, 2013, 09:04:00 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 31, 2013, 04:34:28 PM

I watched the game on tape was it mentioned why Rysheed didnt start?
If there was no reason then I put this lose squarely on lavin.

How can you (collectively) complain about the starting lineup when it worked so well?  We held them scoreless for the opening 8+ minutes and got out to a 9 - 0 lead when as you know we typically fall behind from the get go.

And the same lineup in the 2nd half got hosed.
Ever think Xavier was doing an SJU imitation at the start and me you and 3 other posters could have had the same result?

No I don't.  If a coach tweaks the starting lineup and it results in a 9 point lead with the home team not scoring till the second tv timeout,  then you can say without a shadow of the doubt that it was a good move.  If Xavier would have jumped out to a 10 - 0 lead with Lavin implementing our umpteenth starting lineup would you have asked me 'Ever think Xavier was doing a Louisville imitation at the start and me you and 3 other posters could have had the same result?'  Of course not.  The games are not played in a vacuum.  All analysis must assume there's some sort of cause and effect relationship involved or there's nothing for us to debate.

Quote from: Moose on December 31, 2013, 09:07:28 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on December 31, 2013, 09:04:00 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 31, 2013, 04:34:28 PM

I watched the game on tape was it mentioned why Rysheed didnt start?
If there was no reason then I put this lose squarely on lavin.

How can you (collectively) complain about the starting lineup when it worked so well?  We held them scoreless for the opening 8+ minutes and got out to a 9 - 0 lead when as you know we typically fall behind from the get go.

And the same lineup in the 2nd half got hosed.
Ever think Xavier was doing an SJU imitation at the start and me you and 3 other posters could have had the same result?

No I don't.  If a coach tweaks the starting lineup and it results in a 9 point lead with the home team not scoring till the second tv timeout,  then you can say without a shadow of the doubt that it was a good move.  If Xavier would have jumped out to a 10 - 0 lead with Lavin implementing our umpteenth starting lineup would you have asked me 'Ever think Xavier was doing a Louisville imitation at the start and me you and 3 other posters could have had the same result?'  Of course not.  The games are not played in a vacuum.  All analysis must assume there's some sort of cause and effect relationship involved or there's nothing for us to debate.

So what is your canny response for the same lineup in the 2nd half getting hosed.  Or did I miss that?

carmine I don't see how the starting lineup today can be justified by ANYONE.  First off, I don't think those 5 players were on the court at the same time ALL SEASON.  And Lav chooses to START them in a road conference game?? Inexplicable.

We HAVE seen us play with 3 bigs on the floor together though, and it hasn't worked yet this year.  We stopped doing it many games ago and we had been playing better, so I have no clue why we went back to the 3 bigs format. 

Phil Greene is not a PG.  We have shown that we are best with Rysheed out there playing PG.  I have no problem with Phil getting some time at the 2 because he can get hot and knock down the jumpshot.  Lavin touts how little hes turned the ball over.  Why doesn't he turn it over? Because he MAKES NOTHING HAPPEN.  He doesn't get into the lane, he constantly over dribbles and he just isnt a playmaker that plays into what SHOULD BE our style of playing fast.  Rysheed and Jamal DO play into that identity, even though Jamal does turn it over too much at times.  At least he plays into our identity, and right now this team really isn't playing into what should be our identity.  Jamal had 3 assists/1 TO in 5 mins of game action.  Phil had 1 assist/1 TO in 23 mins of game action.  It boggles my mind why Lav has such a love affair with him and has such a short leash on Jamal.

Also, if youre only going to play guys like Hooper and Felix for 2 minutes or so a piece whats even the point?? How do you ever expect them to get into any kind of rhythm?? Its almost unfair to them to put them in that spot.  Hes better off not even playing them because they come in without any feel for the game and get taken out a few possessions later.  Unless Lav thinks Rysheed could miss more games because of his family situation, it looks awfully silly to have pulled Felix off his redshirt.

I finish with this: is there any QUALITY team in the country still searching for its starting PG going into January??  Is there even a quality team still experimenting with starting lineups going into January?? 

Right now, we are trying everything but have mastered absolutely nothing. 

carmine I don't see how the starting lineup today can be justified by ANYONE.  First off, I don't think those 5 players were on the court at the same time ALL SEASON.  And Lav chooses to START them in a road conference game?? Inexplicable.

We HAVE seen us play with 3 bigs on the floor together though, and it hasn't worked yet this year.  We stopped doing it many games ago and we had been playing better, so I have no clue why we went back to the 3 bigs format. 

Phil Greene is not a PG.  We have shown that we are best with Rysheed out there playing PG.  I have no problem with Phil getting some time at the 2 because he can get hot and knock down the jumpshot.  Lavin touts how little hes turned the ball over.  Why doesn't he turn it over? Because he MAKES NOTHING HAPPEN.  He doesn't get into the lane, he constantly over dribbles and he just isnt a playmaker that plays into what SHOULD BE our style of playing fast.  Rysheed and Jamal DO play into that identity, even though Jamal does turn it over too much at times.  At least he plays into our identity, and right now this team really isn't playing into what should be our identity.  Jamal had 3 assists/1 TO in 5 mins of game action.  Phil had 1 assist/1 TO in 23 mins of game action.  It boggles my mind why Lav has such a love affair with him and has such a short leash on Jamal.

Also, if youre only going to play guys like Hooper and Felix for 2 minutes or so a piece whats even the point?? How do you ever expect them to get into any kind of rhythm?? Its almost unfair to them to put them in that spot.  Hes better off not even playing them because they come in without any feel for the game and get taken out a few possessions later.  Unless Lav thinks Rysheed could miss more games because of his family situation, it looks awfully silly to have pulled Felix off his redshirt.

I finish with this: is there any QUALITY team in the country still searching for its starting PG going into January??  Is there even a quality team still experimenting with starting lineups going into January?? 

Right now, we are trying everything but have mastered absolutely nothing. 

Excellent post Theo!

Quote from: TRabinowitz on December 31, 2013, 10:20:06 PM

carmine I don't see how the starting lineup today can be justified by ANYONE.  First off, I don't think those 5 players were on the court at the same time ALL SEASON.  And Lav chooses to START them in a road conference game?? Inexplicable.

We HAVE seen us play with 3 bigs on the floor together though, and it hasn't worked yet this year.  We stopped doing it many games ago and we had been playing better, so I have no clue why we went back to the 3 bigs format. 

Phil Greene is not a PG.  We have shown that we are best with Rysheed out there playing PG.  I have no problem with Phil getting some time at the 2 because he can get hot and knock down the jumpshot.  Lavin touts how little hes turned the ball over.  Why doesn't he turn it over? Because he MAKES NOTHING HAPPEN.  He doesn't get into the lane, he constantly over dribbles and he just isnt a playmaker that plays into what SHOULD BE our style of playing fast.  Rysheed and Jamal DO play into that identity, even though Jamal does turn it over too much at times.  At least he plays into our identity, and right now this team really isn't playing into what should be our identity.  Jamal had 3 assists/1 TO in 5 mins of game action.  Phil had 1 assist/1 TO in 23 mins of game action.  It boggles my mind why Lav has such a love affair with him and has such a short leash on Jamal.

Also, if youre only going to play guys like Hooper and Felix for 2 minutes or so a piece whats even the point?? How do you ever expect them to get into any kind of rhythm?? Its almost unfair to them to put them in that spot.  Hes better off not even playing them because they come in without any feel for the game and get taken out a few possessions later.  Unless Lav thinks Rysheed could miss more games because of his family situation, it looks awfully silly to have pulled Felix off his redshirt.

I finish with this: is there any QUALITY team in the country still searching for its starting PG going into January??  Is there even a quality team still experimenting with starting lineups going into January?? 

Right now, we are trying everything but have mastered absolutely nothing. 

Excellent post Theo!

yes

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on December 31, 2013, 09:39:47 PM

Quote from: Moose on December 31, 2013, 09:07:28 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on December 31, 2013, 09:04:00 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 31, 2013, 04:34:28 PM

I watched the game on tape was it mentioned why Rysheed didnt start?
If there was no reason then I put this lose squarely on lavin.

How can you (collectively) complain about the starting lineup when it worked so well?  We held them scoreless for the opening 8+ minutes and got out to a 9 - 0 lead when as you know we typically fall behind from the get go.

And the same lineup in the 2nd half got hosed.
Ever think Xavier was doing an SJU imitation at the start and me you and 3 other posters could have had the same result?

No I don't.  If a coach tweaks the starting lineup and it results in a 9 point lead with the home team not scoring till the second tv timeout,  then you can say without a shadow of the doubt that it was a good move.  If Xavier would have jumped out to a 10 - 0 lead with Lavin implementing our umpteenth starting lineup would you have asked me 'Ever think Xavier was doing a Louisville imitation at the start and me you and 3 other posters could have had the same result?'  Of course not.  The games are not played in a vacuum.  All analysis must assume there's some sort of cause and effect relationship involved or there's nothing for us to debate.

So what is your canny response for the same lineup in the 2nd half getting hosed.  Or did I miss that?

Basketball is a game of runs.  Sometimes we're on a run...sometimes the other team is on a run.  There is no magic formula to personnel usage.  Sometimes things work...sometimes they don't.  And what works today may not work tomorrow.  Likewise what works in the first half may not work in the second.

P.S.  What is a canny response?

carmine I don't see how the starting lineup today can be justified by ANYONE.

And I don't see how the starting lineup can not be justified by EVERYONE.  It was an undeniable, unmitigated success.

Actually I lied.  I do see how the starting line up can not be justified by EVERYONE as I've been an student of psychology and gynecology my entire adult life.  It is just human nature to place blame and seek scapegoats when bad events occur and I recognize and understand that.  If we would have won the starting lineup change would be just a passing, humorous blip on the board amidst the celebration, congratulations and positive posts.  It's nothing we haven't seen from Hollywood before.  Since we lost,  you get the other direction.  I get it.

Quote from: Moose on December 31, 2013, 10:04:51 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on December 31, 2013, 09:39:47 PM

Quote from: Moose on December 31, 2013, 09:07:28 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on December 31, 2013, 09:04:00 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 31, 2013, 04:34:28 PM

I watched the game on tape was it mentioned why Rysheed didnt start?
If there was no reason then I put this lose squarely on lavin.

How can you (collectively) complain about the starting lineup when it worked so well?  We held them scoreless for the opening 8+ minutes and got out to a 9 - 0 lead when as you know we typically fall behind from the get go.

And the same lineup in the 2nd half got hosed.
Ever think Xavier was doing an SJU imitation at the start and me you and 3 other posters could have had the same result?

No I don't.  If a coach tweaks the starting lineup and it results in a 9 point lead with the home team not scoring till the second tv timeout,  then you can say without a shadow of the doubt that it was a good move.  If Xavier would have jumped out to a 10 - 0 lead with Lavin implementing our umpteenth starting lineup would you have asked me 'Ever think Xavier was doing a Louisville imitation at the start and me you and 3 other posters could have had the same result?'  Of course not.  The games are not played in a vacuum.  All analysis must assume there's some sort of cause and effect relationship involved or there's nothing for us to debate.

So what is your canny response for the same lineup in the 2nd half getting hosed.  Or did I miss that?

Basketball is a game of runs.  Sometimes we're on a run...sometimes the other team is on a run.  There is no magic formula to personnel usage.  Sometimes things work...sometimes they don't.  And what works today may not work tomorrow.  Likewise what works in the first half may not work in the second.

P.S.  What is a canny response?

That pretty much contradicts your cause and effect reasoning but very well. Thanks

Next game I expect Marco to start. Since you know his best game last year was at Gtown.

Quote from: TRabinowitz on December 31, 2013, 10:20:06 PM

carmine I don't see how the starting lineup today can be justified by ANYONE.

And I don't see how the starting lineup can not be justified by EVERYONE.  It was an undeniable, unmitigated success.

Actually I lied.  I do see how the starting line up can not be justified by EVERYONE as I've been an student of psychology and gynecology my entire adult life.  It is just human nature to place blame and seek scapegoats when bad events occur and I recognize and understand that.  If we would have won the starting lineup change would be just a passing, humorous blip on the board amidst the celebration, congratulations and positive posts.  It's nothing we haven't seen from Hollywood before.  Since we lost,  you get the other direction.  I get it.

Haha you must not be dealing with the facts then.  We were a -4 all-in-all with this lineup today (+5 in the first half and -9 in the second half).  Not much of a success there based on any sort of factual reasoning. 

Let not forget the poor use of timeouts on lavins part. When they made the run in second half he called a timeout and only had one remaining for a 13 minute stretch, with such a close game up to the point why was he blowing timeouts so carelessly

You can bash Lavin for alot, but not the starting lineup.  They opened up a 9-0 lead. 

You can bash Lavin for alot, but not the starting lineup.  They opened up a 9-0 lead. 

True but it should have been 20-0. No way Greene should be starting over Jordan. He is probably their best offensive player on a team that needs offense. I understand coach may have wanted to bring him along slowly, but the other players' aren't producing like we had hoped. If he isn't logging major minutes going forward, then I would have to question coaches rational on that.

 

Does Lavin know he doesn't have to start the same 5 guys in the 2nd half that he does in the first half? Yes that unit started the game on a 9-0 run but as many posters have said it should have been a bigger lead. That unit didn't really do anything too special on the defensive end, Xavier had open looks that they just missed. He should have threw his best lineup out there to start the second half because there was no way that 2SG 3PF unit was going have the same success as they did in the first half.