Xavier Game Thread

All of this analysis, stats and fingrer pointing are comical...   we lost the game because we shot 30.9% from the field.

These kids need to make open shots...

I do agree that we need a point guard out there all the time and Phil Greene is not a point guard.

At the beginning of the year we all knew that a couple of guys minutes needed to be cut dramatically, I think it has become clear as the year has progressed that those two guys have to be Pointer & Greene - they are both role players on good basketball teams. They have both played about 100 more minutes then Jordan this year, that is insane.

All of this analysis, stats and fingrer pointing are comical...   we lost the game because we shot 30.9% from the field.

These kids need to make open shots...

I do agree that we need a point guard out there all the time and Phil Greene is not a point guard.

At the beginning of the year we all knew that a couple of guys minutes needed to be cut dramatically, I think it has become clear as the year has progressed that those two guys have to be Pointer & Greene - they are both role players on good basketball teams. They have both played about 100 more minutes then Jordan this year, that is insane.

  Good post. I agree with everything, particularly the fact that we need to make shots to win these games.....simple game at times.. put ball in the hole.

 I also agree about Jordan needing more time over the other two, but the numbers are misleading because Jordan has missed 2 full games and is constantly in foul trouble it seems. 

All of this analysis, stats and fingrer pointing are comical...   we lost the game because we shot 30.9% from the field.

Why'd we shoot 30 percent from the floor?

Because we don't run an offense designed to get the right people the ball in a position to take the right shots.

I agree with PMG as well...except Pointer brings defensive energy to the game that doesn't seem to come from anyone else.

Quote from: pmg911 on January 02, 2014, 11:46:31 AM

All of this analysis, stats and fingrer pointing are comical...   we lost the game because we shot 30.9% from the field.

These kids need to make open shots...

I do agree that we need a point guard out there all the time and Phil Greene is not a point guard.

At the beginning of the year we all knew that a couple of guys minutes needed to be cut dramatically, I think it has become clear as the year has progressed that those two guys have to be Pointer & Greene - they are both role players on good basketball teams. They have both played about 100 more minutes then Jordan this year, that is insane.

  Good post. I agree with everything, particularly the fact that we need to make shots to win these games.....simple game at times.. put ball in the hole.

 I also agree about Jordan needing more time over the other two, but the numbers are misleading because Jordan has missed 2 full games and is constantly in foul trouble it seems. 

Good point on the total minutes..  forgot he missed 2  full games... 

Quote from: pmg911 on January 02, 2014, 11:46:31 AM

All of this analysis, stats and fingrer pointing are comical...   we lost the game because we shot 30.9% from the field.

Why'd we shoot 30 percent from the floor?

Because we don't run an offense designed to get the right people the ball in a position to take the right shots.

You might be 100% right on running a bad offense but Div I basketball players should shoot better than 25% from inside the arc in any given game. We were 14/54 from inside 3pt land - that is just awful and can't be put on the coach.

Quote from: Foad on January 02, 2014, 11:51:08 AM

Quote from: pmg911 on January 02, 2014, 11:46:31 AM

All of this analysis, stats and fingrer pointing are comical...   we lost the game because we shot 30.9% from the field.

Why'd we shoot 30 percent from the floor?

Because we don't run an offense designed to get the right people the ball in a position to take the right shots.

You might be 100% right on running a bad offense but Div I basketball players should shoot better than 25% from inside the arc in any given game. We were 14/54 from inside 3pt land - that is just awful and can't be put on the coach.

To the extent that you're postulating that Lavin would be a better coach if his players scored more baskets, I agree.

To the extent that you're postulating that the players would not score more baskets if Lavin ran something other than the pointless-dribbling-until-someone-make-a-play offense, I disagree.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if Jordan can find a shooter open for 3, if no one is comfortable to take the shot. How many times do we see Dom pass up a wide open 3? It's a different year, and while we might have depth, we are overloaded with "athletes" who can't score unless they in transition and driving on a fast break.

Our best scorers, Harrison and Sampson, are two of our weakest links on defense. This is going to be a real challenge for Lavin to figure this out. It doesn't seem like very much has changed in terms of understanding what we have, and who should play when. It's becoming clearer and clearer that he has no idea how to bring his vision to life.

Gene Keady was a great coach. I think it's time for Lavin to sit down with him and assess what needs to be done. By now, even Mike Jarvis would usually have us ready for conference play, with only limited changes throughout the season.

We start games w out a point guard. That is maddening, and it's time for it to stop.

All of this analysis, stats and fingrer pointing are comical...   we lost the game because we shot 30.9% from the field.

These kids need to make open shots...

I do agree that we need a point guard out there all the time and Phil Greene is not a point guard.

At the beginning of the year we all knew that a couple of guys minutes needed to be cut dramatically, I think it has become clear as the year has progressed that those two guys have to be Pointer & Greene - they are both role players on good basketball teams. They have both played about 100 more minutes then Jordan this year, that is insane.

C'mon PMG.  You coach, so you know how important it is for a team to have an identity and players to know their roles and whats expected of them.

What does it say for us to have had 7 different starting lineups this season and 4 different starting lineups in the last 5 games?? Is that a recipe for sustained success??

There's also an element of coaching that involves individual development.   Sampson and Obekpa are nba-type-talents, in the last year we couldn't teach them each 1 go to post move that they feel comfortable with and have down pat?   I'm not asking them to be Olajuwon, but it would give us some semblance of a post-up game if either of them could occasionally score with their back to the basket.

More numbers to back up why we want a lead guard the gets to the rim:

When we get a shot in the first 10 seconds of our offense off a rebound, 43.8% of our shots have come at the rim.  From 11 seconds to 35 seconds, only 20% of our shots come at the rim.  From 11 seconds to 35 seconds after a defensive rebound, 53% of our shots are 2pt jumpers (the least efficient shot in basketball). 

When we get a shot within the first 10 seconds after our opponents scoring, 34.9% of our shots come at the rim.  From 11 to 25 seconds after an opponents score (which is when Phil likes to use clock when hes running point), only 22.1% of our shots come at the rim.

When we get a steal, 56.2% of our shots within the first 10 seconds of the shot clock come at the rim. From 11-35 seconds, only 12.5% of our shots come at the rim.

Good stuff

There's also an element of coaching that involves individual development.   Sampson and Obekpa are nba-type-talents, in the last year we couldn't teach them each 1 go to post move that they feel comfortable with and have down pat?   I'm not asking them to be Olajuwon, but it would give us some semblance of a post-up game if either of them could occasionally score with their back to the basket.

I share that concern.  I also expected Dom to be a somewhat competent perimeter player by now.   Raw athletes are tolerable when they are freshmen with size/upside, but it's hard to run an offense without a PG and with multiple players who can neither put it on the deck or hit a jumper with consistency.  Frustrating

There's also an element of coaching that involves individual development.   Sampson and Obekpa are nba-type-talents, in the last year we couldn't teach them each 1 go to post move that they feel comfortable with and have down pat?   I'm not asking them to be Olajuwon, but it would give us some semblance of a post-up game if either of them could occasionally score with their back to the basket.

Or teaching Karr the value of passing when not in position for a good shot. Know we need his scoring, but being total black hole or taking it into traffic against multiple guys is not productive. I guess "teaching" is the operative word.

I also think Lavin's rotations are screwing with everyone's understanding of where they need to be. In the 2nd half vs Xavier, I noticed one particular play where we switched to man d, and Obekpa and Sampson were still playing zone.

These kids are all over the place. Lavin wants to go from one type of zone to another, and then to man, and then to the full court press. I think he keeps pointing to the end of February because he knows that it's hard for them to learn everything the staff is trying to teach them. If he just played man to man, and focused ONLY on that, we'd likely be good at it by now.

Quote from: desco80 on January 02, 2014, 12:11:27 PM

There's also an element of coaching that involves individual development.   Sampson and Obekpa are nba-type-talents, in the last year we couldn't teach them each 1 go to post move that they feel comfortable with and have down pat?   I'm not asking them to be Olajuwon, but it would give us some semblance of a post-up game if either of them could occasionally score with their back to the basket.

Or teaching Karr the value of passing when not in position for a good shot. Know we need his scoring, but being total black hole or taking it into traffic against multiple guys is not productive. I guess "teaching" is the operative word.

This.  +1.   And he's just as bad in the open floor.  Never looks to give it up.

Alsom I agree with you Chudney.   Would've expected more development from Dom for sure.  Thought he had a very high ceiling if someone would work with him on perimeter skills. 

Part of the reason for Jordan's minutes --- foul trouble.

Part of the reason for Jordan's minutes --- foul trouble.

Again I am wondering if Lavin's lack of commitment to him might be based on Jordan's lack of commitment to the program, if the rumors have any truth to them.

For all of Lavin's annoying tinkering, my only real issues are Jordan and Obepka need more minutes. Greene needs less minutes

Quote from: pmg911 on January 02, 2014, 11:46:31 AM

All of this analysis, stats and fingrer pointing are comical...   we lost the game because we shot 30.9% from the field.

These kids need to make open shots...

I do agree that we need a point guard out there all the time and Phil Greene is not a point guard.

At the beginning of the year we all knew that a couple of guys minutes needed to be cut dramatically, I think it has become clear as the year has progressed that those two guys have to be Pointer & Greene - they are both role players on good basketball teams. They have both played about 100 more minutes then Jordan this year, that is insane.

C'mon PMG.  You coach, so you know how important it is for a team to have an identity and players to know their roles and whats expected of them.

What does it say for us to have had 7 different starting lineups this season and 4 different starting lineups in the last 5 games?? Is that a recipe for sustained success??

Theo, not saying you are wrong but the players are the ones on the court.

The line up shuffles are awful and I have no clue what the point is but it does change the fact that we just didnt make shots.

I said it before the games started and nothing has changed my opinion, Phil Greene should not see significant minutes on this team. He plays super hard but is a role player at best.

Re Jordens possibility of leaving, Play the best lineup,, we need Ws. Not playing Jorden because he might leave is like a coach not playing a SR because he will not be back next year. That said, Jorden has to work on fouling less.

Re Jordens possibility of leaving, Play the best lineup,, we need Ws. Not playing Jorden because he might leave is like a coach not playing a SR because he will not be back next year. That said, Jorden has to work on fouling less.

Again just wondering from Lavin perspective not mine. Alternative is he thinks Greene and GG are better than Jordan. That might be scarier.