Xavier Game Thread

People are only bashing the fact that Phil Greene has been playing a position which he isn't as good at or as suited for as 2 other guys on the roster.  He has definitely improved his shot and there is definitely room for him to back up D'Angelo and to play the 3 when we go small (which I think should be more of our identity).  He just isn't as suited for our style as a PG as Rysheed or Branch. 

And btw, Phil's first year he was pretty much the only guy to play PG after Nuri left and then last year we had 2 PGs and he came in 2nd in assists.  Not much of an accomplishment.  Again, Phil is a 2-guard and a 3-guard when we go small.  He shouldn't be playing meaningful minutes as a 1 unless Rysheed or Branch go down.

i wish i could find the quote from when Lavin was hired, but i clearly remember Lavin and Dunlap making a big deal about reducing turnovers.  It was part of the keys to success.  If Lavin is indeed true to that, I think it provides an indication on why Greene plays and why Branch doesn't. 

Just thinking aloud, but how much of the reason we have so few turnovers do you think can be credited to the fact that we don't take enough chances? 

I'm not advocating playing recklessly, but if you have a lot of ball movement and really try to work the ball for an open look - then you're bound to turn it over more.     

You occasionally see other teams, even good teams, throw the ball out-of-bounds when a player cuts left and the passer thought he was going right.   Maybe we never see that  because our guys are always making the safe pass to stationary targets.   

Versus Wisc, Ga Tech, Syracuse, Penn State, and Columbia Green is 11-33 from the floor, 2-10 from 3, and is averaging 5 ppg.

Versus Fordham, Bucknell, Monmouth, Longwood and Youngstown he's 30 -45 from the floor, 7-14 from 3, and is averaging 16 ppg.

What might explain his increased output versus the second group?

Your point is well taken.  Please allow me the liberty to summarize it for the board.

Phil Greene shoots better from the field against our strongest opponents than Rysheed Jordan does overall. Thanks for pointing that out.

Quote from: Foad on January 02, 2014, 11:37:27 AM

Versus Wisc, Ga Tech, Syracuse, Penn State, and Columbia Green is 11-33 from the floor, 2-10 from 3, and is averaging 5 ppg.

Versus Fordham, Bucknell, Monmouth, Longwood and Youngstown he's 30 -45 from the floor, 7-14 from 3, and is averaging 16 ppg.

What might explain his increased output versus the second group?

Your point is well taken.  Please allow me the liberty to summarize it for the board.

Phil Greene shoots better from the field against our strongest opponents than Rysheed Jordan does overall. Thanks for pointing that out.

So both Carmine and Lavin feel Greene is better than Jordan. Great minds and all that

People are only bashing the fact that Phil Greene has been playing a position which he isn't as good at or as suited for as 2 other guys on the roster.  He has definitely improved his shot and there is definitely room for him to back up D'Angelo and to play the 3 when we go small (which I think should be more of our identity).  He just isn't as suited for our style as a PG as Rysheed or Branch. 

And btw, Phil's first year he was pretty much the only guy to play PG after Nuri left and then last year we had 2 PGs and he came in 2nd in assists.  Not much of an accomplishment.  Again, Phil is a 2-guard and a 3-guard when we go small.  He shouldn't be playing meaningful minutes as a 1 unless Rysheed or Branch go down.

No need to knock anybody. Just wanna mention how important it is getting to the rim. It's the best chance of getting fouled, and getting to the line. Also the possibility of a put back is good. It's the easiest shot for D to get back when missed. Seems unless a team shots the 3 great, getting to the line is the way to win. Sheed gets to the line, so does D'lo. I thought Branch would get there more, and his time might be hurting because coach thought he would to. What can be done about Sampson holding the ball. Shoot fast, put it on the floor and go to rim fast. or move it fast. I thought this thing where it's stand around would come to an end. Good thing we win with D. 

i think this nails it when i comes to Branch.  From "Rumble in the Garden"

http://www.rumbleinthegarden.com/2013/11/7/4598274/preview-jamal-branch-2013

Branch drew some fouls and provided a good change of pace from D'Angelo Harrison and Phil Greene IV's play. Jamal shot a crisp 50% from the field in the first half of Big East play, averaging 9 points, 2.6 assists and 1.6 steals in 26 minutes of time.

He turned the ball over on 20% of his possessions, which was a little high, but he had a sense of adventure in his passing... for good and bad. Some of those passes were creative for a team that struggled to get shots at the rim. And some were just bad ideas.

If you read this board the last couple of days and didn't know better you'ld think that Jordan was pulling splinters out his a$$ on New years eve.

He played 26 minutes.  He picked up his 3rd foul with 13 minutes remaining.  He's got to sit a bit there right?  He picked up his 4th foul with 4 1/2 remaining.  Probably should sit till the last 2/2 1/2 minute mark, right?

What the hell do you want Hollywood to do?  Jordan might have played over 30 without the foul trouble or if he isn't always in foul trouble. 

You guys are living in some sort of fantasy land. 

Not to mention that the freshmen has been suspended one game for unknown reasons and left the team another game for suspicious ( or not ) reasons.  Ever think Lavin's not starting him as some sort of teaching point regarding earning starts and minutes?  You know he's big on that.  Plus he was so obviously getting outplayed by PG4 and his shooting numbers were so anemic early that there was no way Lavs could play him more and still try to make the tournament.

Kid's minutes are going to increase now, as they should, if he can stop fouling and stop missing games and practices.  Hollywood is bringing the savior along and has managed his minutes perfectly this season.  As evidence, I offer that the kid's confidence and level of play is on a clear upswing as we enter conference play.

THERE HAS NOT BEEN ONE LOSS YET THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A VICTORY WITH MORE JORDAN.  And if I'm wrong,  the reason Jordan didn't play more in that loss, IS JORDAN.


 

 Most Carmine has made sense in my time posting here...

Carmine - It's not just the minutes for Jordan that people were/are complaining about, it's his role.   You'll see that the frequent complaint is that coach should have "handed him the keys" earlier.  I think that's more of their central argument.

Personally, I think he should play off the ball and he would find it easier to score if he did.   

If you read this board the last couple of days and didn't know better you'ld think that Jordan was pulling splinters out his a$$ on New years eve.

He played 26 minutes.  He picked up his 3rd foul with 13 minutes remaining.  He's got to sit a bit there right?  He picked up his 4th foul with 4 1/2 remaining.  Probably should sit till the last 2/2 1/2 minute mark, right?

What the hell do you want Hollywood to do?  Jordan might have played over 30 without the foul trouble or if he isn't always in foul trouble. 

You guys are living in some sort of fantasy land. 

Not to mention that the freshmen has been suspended one game for unknown reasons and left the team another game for suspicious ( or not ) reasons.  Ever think Lavin's not starting him as some sort of teaching point regarding earning starts and minutes?  You know he's big on that.  Plus he was so obviously getting outplayed by PG4 and his shooting numbers were so anemic early that there was no way Lavs could play him more and still try to make the tournament.

Kid's minutes are going to increase now, as they should, if he can stop fouling and stop missing games and practices.  Hollywood is bringing the savior along and has managed his minutes perfectly this season.  As evidence, I offer that the kid's confidence and level of play is on a clear upswing as we enter conference play.

THERE HAS NOT BEEN ONE LOSS YET THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A VICTORY WITH MORE JORDAN.  And if I'm wrong,  the reason Jordan didn't play more in that loss, IS JORDAN.


 

Most everyone is talking about the other point guard on the team that is not getting enough minutes because too many of the PG minutes are being given to the spherical miracle.

I know your a numbers guy so here it is

Min     fg%    3fg%    FT%    pts    asts  TO
24.8   .479     .393      .625    8.9     1.5      .5
12.2     .528     .333      .700   4.1      1.8     1.5

So since numbers are everything for you, does one player deserve to get twice the amount of minutes as the other one does? Especially out of position for a large part of them?

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 01, 2014, 12:24:20 PM

You watched it didnt you. Xavier missed open shots, we werent exactly shutting them down because of our defense. 

I feel it's disingenuous to not give credit where it's due to our defense when an opponent is held scoreless to the second TV time out.  If we had given up 30 points in the first 8 minutes of the game would you ever make the point that our defense was great but Xavier was just making all of their well defended tightly, covered shots?  Of course not.

I feel Hollywood pulled a fast one and surprised Xavier by coming out with the 1 - 3 - 1/ 2 -3 zone.  They certainly were bothered by it and looked tentative against it.  The zone was obviously played well by the unusual lineup Lavin chose to start the conference opener.

Of course I would say that xavier, or any other team, is making tough, tightly covered shots, if they in fact are. Why wouldnt I or anyone else?

paralysis by analysis...  Shoot the damn ball better.. Rebound, stay in front of your man.

By the way, my brother works with television ratings, and said the SJU-Xavier game was by far the most watched game of Foxsports New Year's Eve marathon.  And in general our game with xavier and our game with Cuse are two of Fox's best ratings since they started in August.   FWIW

If you read this board the last couple of days and didn't know better you'ld think that Jordan was pulling splinters out his a$$ on New years eve.

He played 26 minutes.  He picked up his 3rd foul with 13 minutes remaining.  He's got to sit a bit there right?  He picked up his 4th foul with 4 1/2 remaining.  Probably should sit till the last 2/2 1/2 minute mark, right?

What the hell do you want Hollywood to do?  Jordan might have played over 30 without the foul trouble or if he isn't always in foul trouble. 

You guys are living in some sort of fantasy land. 

Not to mention that the freshmen has been suspended one game for unknown reasons and left the team another game for suspicious ( or not ) reasons.  Ever think Lavin's not starting him as some sort of teaching point regarding earning starts and minutes?  You know he's big on that.  Plus he was so obviously getting outplayed by PG4 and his shooting numbers were so anemic early that there was no way Lavs could play him more and still try to make the tournament.

Kid's minutes are going to increase now, as they should, if he can stop fouling and stop missing games and practices.  Hollywood is bringing the savior along and has managed his minutes perfectly this season.  As evidence, I offer that the kid's confidence and level of play is on a clear upswing as we enter conference play.

THERE HAS NOT BEEN ONE LOSS YET THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A VICTORY WITH MORE JORDAN.  And if I'm wrong,  the reason Jordan didn't play more in that loss, IS JORDAN.
 

What would I like Lavin to do?

1. Pick a defense, and stick with it.
2. Pick a starting line up, and stick with it.
3. Pick a point guard, START HIM, and stick with him. In Nov, did anyone know who the PG was? I didn't. And I still don't know.

It's January 2nd, and it looks like we need to start over in practice, but the leadership really appears to be slow to figure things out that other coaches would have figured out by now. I say appears to be, because hey, this is Lavin's program, and I'd be happy to eat my words.

That said, I can't for the life of me figure out what Lavin is even trying to do. It's looks like he doesn't know himself. On Tuesday, Lavin had 4 different guards running the offense, and two forwards dribbling coast to coast, one of which probably has less than 10 assists on the entire season.

We had hoped that our sophs and juniors would have shown marked improvement by now, but they haven't, and some of them have actually regressed. It really begs the question, what is the plan here? Is there one?

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 02, 2014, 02:24:31 PM

If you read this board the last couple of days and didn't know better you'ld think that Jordan was pulling splinters out his a$$ on New years eve.

He played 26 minutes.  He picked up his 3rd foul with 13 minutes remaining.  He's got to sit a bit there right?  He picked up his 4th foul with 4 1/2 remaining.  Probably should sit till the last 2/2 1/2 minute mark, right?

What the hell do you want Hollywood to do?  Jordan might have played over 30 without the foul trouble or if he isn't always in foul trouble. 

You guys are living in some sort of fantasy land. 

Not to mention that the freshmen has been suspended one game for unknown reasons and left the team another game for suspicious ( or not ) reasons.  Ever think Lavin's not starting him as some sort of teaching point regarding earning starts and minutes?  You know he's big on that.  Plus he was so obviously getting outplayed by PG4 and his shooting numbers were so anemic early that there was no way Lavs could play him more and still try to make the tournament.

Kid's minutes are going to increase now, as they should, if he can stop fouling and stop missing games and practices.  Hollywood is bringing the savior along and has managed his minutes perfectly this season.  As evidence, I offer that the kid's confidence and level of play is on a clear upswing as we enter conference play.

THERE HAS NOT BEEN ONE LOSS YET THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A VICTORY WITH MORE JORDAN.  And if I'm wrong,  the reason Jordan didn't play more in that loss, IS JORDAN.
 

What would I like Lavin to do?

1. Pick a defense, and stick with it.
2. Pick a starting line up, and stick with it.
3. Pick a point guard, START HIM, and stick with him. In Nov, did anyone know who the PG was? I didn't. And I still don't know.

It's January 2nd, and it looks like we need to start over in practice, but the leadership really appears to be slow to figure things out that other coaches would have figured out by now. I say appears to be, because hey, this is Lavin's program, and I'd be happy to eat my words.

That said, I can't for the life of me figure out what Lavin is even trying to do. It's looks like he doesn't know himself. On Tuesday, Lavin had 4 different guards running the offense, and two forwards dribbling coast to coast, one of which probably has less than 10 assists on the entire season.

We had hoped that our sophs and juniors would have shown marked improvement by now, but they haven't, and some of them have actually regressed. It really begs the question, what is the plan here? Is there one?

It's a jam session.  The plan is not to have a plan.  Eventually, good musicians/basketball players figure out how to play good music/basketball along the way, or so the theory goes...

It's time for Lavin to hurt someone's feelings and start cutting minutes.  Most here point to Greene given that he plays extended minutes out of position, but you could easily justify shaving a few minutes a game off Jakarr, Dom, and Sanchez.   Either way, at least one player who expected to get big minutes will be disappointed.  The time is now to lay the hammer down and deal with the consequences (ie transfer)

I don't think that's what he said and if he said it I don't think that's what he meant.....and....I think you know that.

Most everyone is talking about the other point guard on the team that is not getting enough minutes because too many of the PG minutes are being given to the spherical miracle.

I once dated a girl they called the sperical miracle.  Man! Sahe had some unique talents. LOL!

Seriously, that is the best iteration yet of PGIV's hallowed nickname.

Quote from: Poison on January 02, 2014, 06:23:39 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 02, 2014, 02:24:31 PM

If you read this board the last couple of days and didn't know better you'ld think that Jordan was pulling splinters out his a$$ on New years eve.

He played 26 minutes.  He picked up his 3rd foul with 13 minutes remaining.  He's got to sit a bit there right?  He picked up his 4th foul with 4 1/2 remaining.  Probably should sit till the last 2/2 1/2 minute mark, right?

What the hell do you want Hollywood to do?  Jordan might have played over 30 without the foul trouble or if he isn't always in foul trouble. 

You guys are living in some sort of fantasy land. 

Not to mention that the freshmen has been suspended one game for unknown reasons and left the team another game for suspicious ( or not ) reasons.  Ever think Lavin's not starting him as some sort of teaching point regarding earning starts and minutes?  You know he's big on that.  Plus he was so obviously getting outplayed by PG4 and his shooting numbers were so anemic early that there was no way Lavs could play him more and still try to make the tournament.

Kid's minutes are going to increase now, as they should, if he can stop fouling and stop missing games and practices.  Hollywood is bringing the savior along and has managed his minutes perfectly this season.  As evidence, I offer that the kid's confidence and level of play is on a clear upswing as we enter conference play.

THERE HAS NOT BEEN ONE LOSS YET THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A VICTORY WITH MORE JORDAN.  And if I'm wrong,  the reason Jordan didn't play more in that loss, IS JORDAN.
 

What would I like Lavin to do?

1. Pick a defense, and stick with it.
2. Pick a starting line up, and stick with it.
3. Pick a point guard, START HIM, and stick with him. In Nov, did anyone know who the PG was? I didn't. And I still don't know.

It's January 2nd, and it looks like we need to start over in practice, but the leadership really appears to be slow to figure things out that other coaches would have figured out by now. I say appears to be, because hey, this is Lavin's program, and I'd be happy to eat my words.

That said, I can't for the life of me figure out what Lavin is even trying to do. It's looks like he doesn't know himself. On Tuesday, Lavin had 4 different guards running the offense, and two forwards dribbling coast to coast, one of which probably has less than 10 assists on the entire season.

We had hoped that our sophs and juniors would have shown marked improvement by now, but they haven't, and some of them have actually regressed. It really begs the question, what is the plan here? Is there one?

It's a jam session.  The plan is not to have a plan.  Eventually, good musicians/basketball players figure out how to play good music/basketball along the way, or so the theory goes...

It's like a "Montessori School". Whatever that means.

Carmine - It's not just the minutes for Jordan that people were/are complaining about, it's his role.   You'll see that the frequent complaint is that coach should have "handed him the keys" earlier.  I think that's more of their central argument.

How can you hand the keys to a driver who is not 17 yet and doesn't have a license?  Do you agree with what I wrote in reply #166 and doesn't it lay the "Lavin hasn't played Jordan enough argument to rest?"

Personally, I think he should play off the ball and he would find it easier to score if he did.   

Jordan was a point, is a point, and will be a point in the Nba.  I know you want the Aggie to play more but it won't be at Jordan's expense.