Lavin's Contract

Quote from: Dan on January 04, 2014, 02:58:17 PM

so he was one more year before they have to decide to extend or fire

pretty tough call at this point

You pretty much have to decide whether to extend after this year if you expect him to recruit 2015 class.

If it keeps going like this, I could see Lavin making the decision for them by leaving for any number of reasons. 

Quote from: Redstormy80 on January 04, 2014, 01:54:20 PM

How does Shaka Smart like New York?

Tough get. The guy turned down UCLA.

I'm thinking Gregg Marshall or Danny Hurley. Hurley might be best, he could allow us to hold on to Brisco and Diallo and other NY area guys.

I was kinda kidding, i'm not throwing Lavin under the bus yet. The signs have been really discouraging though

Do you guys really think its a coaching issue? Lets really look at this now, outside of the players HS rankings, do you think these players have much talent? The proof is in their numbers, its not the coaching. I'm not happy with the starting lineups either, but did it really matter? Did the walk on play poorly in his 7 minutes? What did Sampson do once he got in? All of these players are one dimensional and Lavin is searching for someone that can play basketball. 

I mean this thread is scary enough - as of last year you had people defending him to no end, and now you have people openly talking replacements.  That's bad. 

Quote from: pmg911 on January 04, 2014, 02:54:12 PM

Lavin is not going anywhere at this point but picking between Masiello and Hurley would be tough.

Don't be so sure.

Which side would be wanting out, the coach or the university?

Do you guys really think its a coaching issue? Lets really look at this now, outside of the players HS rankings, do you think these players have much talent? The proof is in their numbers, its not the coaching. I'm not happy with the starting lineups either, but did it really matter? Did the walk on play poorly in his 7 minutes? What did Sampson do once he got in? All of these players are one dimensional and Lavin is searching for someone that can play basketball. 

Seriously dude, who the hell are you, Lavins agent ?!

It is clearly a coaching issue. You can tell a well coached team when you see them on the floor and Lavins teams here have looked far too similar to his UCLA teams.
Give this same group of guys to Pitino and they are Elite-8 caliber.

Time to stop decieving ourselves hoping that something will change. Need to make a decision quickly when season ends or we may wind up missing out on a great young coach who actually could build a dynasty here.

Quote from: SJUFAN on January 04, 2014, 06:08:36 PM

Do you guys really think its a coaching issue? Lets really look at this now, outside of the players HS rankings, do you think these players have much talent? The proof is in their numbers, its not the coaching. I'm not happy with the starting lineups either, but did it really matter? Did the walk on play poorly in his 7 minutes? What did Sampson do once he got in? All of these players are one dimensional and Lavin is searching for someone that can play basketball. 

Seriously dude, who the hell are you, Lavins agent ?!

It is clearly a coaching issue. You can tell a well coached team when you see them on the floor and Lavins teams here have looked far too similar to his UCLA teams.
Give this same group of guys to Pitino and they are Elite-8 caliber.

Time to stop decieving ourselves hoping that something will change. Need to make a decision quickly when season ends or we may wind up missing out on a great young coach who actually could build a dynasty here.

I think you are both right.  It's a combo of both your points.

If Lavin were to be the one that decides to leave that means something is very wrong with this group of players in Lav's mind. Lavin took the job knowing that it was going to be a rebuilding job after year 1 and he and the staff have been tirelessly pursuing talent from all over the country and this year and next is supposed to be the time all that work pays off. If he were to leave at the end of this year all that work would essentially have been for nothing. This would mean to me that he has lost confidence that this group of players could be successful.

Amidst all the rumors of USC and his wife wanting to go back to LA etc, I chose to believe that Lav  stayed because all that recruiting effort would finally come to fruition. Turns out him leaving at the end of last season could have been the best thing to happen to the program since he was hired

Quote from: SJUFAN on January 04, 2014, 06:08:36 PM

Do you guys really think its a coaching issue? Lets really look at this now, outside of the players HS rankings, do you think these players have much talent? The proof is in their numbers, its not the coaching. I'm not happy with the starting lineups either, but did it really matter? Did the walk on play poorly in his 7 minutes? What did Sampson do once he got in? All of these players are one dimensional and Lavin is searching for someone that can play basketball. 

Seriously dude, who the hell are you, Lavins agent ?!

It is clearly a coaching issue. You can tell a well coached team when you see them on the floor and Lavins teams here have looked far too similar to his UCLA teams.
Give this same group of guys to Pitino and they are Elite-8 caliber.

Time to stop decieving ourselves hoping that something will change. Need to make a decision quickly when season ends or we may wind up missing out on a great young coach who actually could build a dynasty here.

Elite 8? I'll take whatever you are smoking!

Quote from: SJUFAN on January 04, 2014, 06:08:36 PM

Do you guys really think its a coaching issue? Lets really look at this now, outside of the players HS rankings, do you think these players have much talent? The proof is in their numbers, its not the coaching. I'm not happy with the starting lineups either, but did it really matter? Did the walk on play poorly in his 7 minutes? What did Sampson do once he got in? All of these players are one dimensional and Lavin is searching for someone that can play basketball. 

Seriously dude, who the hell are you, Lavins agent ?!

It is clearly a coaching issue. You can tell a well coached team when you see them on the floor and Lavins teams here have looked far too similar to his UCLA teams.
Give this same group of guys to Pitino and they are Elite-8 caliber.

Time to stop decieving ourselves hoping that something will change. Need to make a decision quickly when season ends or we may wind up missing out on a great young coach who actually could build a dynasty here.

Could Lavin do a better job coaching, I'm sure he could, comparing him to Pitino isn't fair. But elite 8 talent?!?!?!?!? based on what? How are you measuring that? Our best scorer shoots sub 40%! I'm not trying to knock the young men who play on our team, but when you look at our top 9 players (who log the most minutes), we don't have a good shooter among them. How many of our players are good passers, rebounders, can dribble penetrate? How are we elite 8 talent yet as a team we don't do these critical elements well? Maybe the answer is, we are not as talented as you, or I, had hoped.

Quote from: uwsfan on January 04, 2014, 06:42:33 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on January 04, 2014, 06:08:36 PM

Do you guys really think its a coaching issue? Lets really look at this now, outside of the players HS rankings, do you think these players have much talent? The proof is in their numbers, its not the coaching. I'm not happy with the starting lineups either, but did it really matter? Did the walk on play poorly in his 7 minutes? What did Sampson do once he got in? All of these players are one dimensional and Lavin is searching for someone that can play basketball. 

Seriously dude, who the hell are you, Lavins agent ?!

It is clearly a coaching issue. You can tell a well coached team when you see them on the floor and Lavins teams here have looked far too similar to his UCLA teams.
Give this same group of guys to Pitino and they are Elite-8 caliber.

Time to stop decieving ourselves hoping that something will change. Need to make a decision quickly when season ends or we may wind up missing out on a great young coach who actually could build a dynasty here.

Could Lavin do a better job coaching, I'm sure he could, comparing him to Pitino isn't fair. But elite 8 talent?!?!?!?!? based on what? How are you measuring that? Our best scorer shoots sub 40%! I'm not trying to knock the young men who play on our team, but when you look at our top 9 players (who log the most minutes), we don't have a good shooter among them. How many of our players are good passers, rebounders, can dribble penetrate? How are we elite 8 talent yet as a team we don't do these critical elements well? Maybe the answer is, we are not as talented as you, or I, had hoped.

No. The answer is, they are poorly coached

Lavin is a bad coach (in-game), period.  He underachieved with massive talent at UCLA (a more savvy coach could have won titles there), and, surprise, he is underachieving with less talent here.  A competent coach could get this squad into the tournament.  Yes, he is better than Norm Roberts, who was brutal at everything, but what does that really say? 

Lavin can recruit, but he can't coach.  Everyone knew this coming in, and it's displaying for everyone now - I think people were foolish to think it would magically change.  Why, because you wanted it to? 

I remember when Lavin was first hired there was a post stating that UCLA fans said that SJU fans will regret this hire. Have we reached that point yet?

There seems to be a pattern since Louie retired, (or changing our name to Redstorm...or both) that a coach started well and then collapsed. Even Norm started with hope and praise because it was a hometown kid trying to make good.

Not sure where we go from here except hope the team turns around...There is potential in this team and I do not know what is wrong. Trying to keep things in perspective, if we would have only lost my 2 we still would be 0-2. Everyone on this board thought this was a possibility. Maybe were not a good road team. Maybe we beat Nova we can go on a run...At this time there is no "magic" player to come in and help us out. Being an optimist is the only way to go. I watched a min of the game before I got sick, so I am not blinded about how atrocious we have been since the 2nd half of the Xavier game.

But...
I just can't believe that Lavin would quit or give up and have all his critics be proven right that he can't couch...

I have said before is that a bad SJU team is bad for the school and worse for the new league. If NYC does not give a shite about BE basketball, this hurts the league. When SJU started tubing in the 90s, this weaken the BB only schools.

I have to think that almost how this season plays out Lavin is here to stay because the school is still transitioning for a new President and the likely hood of the BB team being a prority probably is not there...Even though it should be.

Here's to being a optimist because that's all I can do at this point...

I think people thought it would change because he was away from coaching for a while and got to see a lot of different styles and such from the booth. At least, that's what he sold all of us when he was hired. The program was down and Lavin came in and gave a fanbase going through a tough time something to hope for and look forward to. He recruited the fans. And sometimes coaches do grow and improve after losing their first job.

Recruiting wise, Lavin's far exceeded what most other coaches would be able to get at a modern St. John's program. He's living up to his reputation as a great recruiter. The problem is that great recruiting at St. John's isn't the same as great recruiting at UCLA. Out west, he was constantly getting eventual NBA guys. They were so talented that they were able to overcome Lavin's lack of teaching/coaching. St. John's is not getting the same caliber of player as UCLA got during Lavin's tenure.

I believe continuity and stability is integral for a program to be successful. That's why I haven't been as quick as some others to call for Coach's head. However, I'm starting to lose faith in his ability to make St. John's a consistently competitive team. I hope things do turn around, but I'm no longer expecting it.

Quote from: Moose on January 04, 2014, 03:08:42 PM

Quote from: Dan on January 04, 2014, 02:58:17 PM

so he was one more year before they have to decide to extend or fire

pretty tough call at this point

You pretty much have to decide whether to extend after this year if you expect him to recruit 2015 class.

If it keeps going like this, I could see Lavin making the decision for them by leaving for any number of reasons. 

Seems likely.

Quote from: desco80 on January 04, 2014, 03:25:27 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 04, 2014, 03:08:42 PM

Quote from: Dan on January 04, 2014, 02:58:17 PM

so he was one more year before they have to decide to extend or fire

pretty tough call at this point

You pretty much have to decide whether to extend after this year if you expect him to recruit 2015 class.

If it keeps going like this, I could see Lavin making the decision for them by leaving for any number of reasons. 

Seems likely.

Except that there is no million dollar contract waiting to dress Mrs Lavin
in the style she's accustomed too, so maybe not.

Quote from: desco80 on January 04, 2014, 03:25:27 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 04, 2014, 03:08:42 PM

Quote from: Dan on January 04, 2014, 02:58:17 PM

so he was one more year before they have to decide to extend or fire

pretty tough call at this point

You pretty much have to decide whether to extend after this year if you expect him to recruit 2015 class.

If it keeps going like this, I could see Lavin making the decision for them by leaving for any number of reasons. 

Seems likely.

you've hinted at this a couple of times already.  is lavin seriously considering quitting.

Is there a termination clause in Lavin's contract if he is declared certifiable? 
I for one am ready to call the mobile crisis unit and send them to the basketball offices at St. John's U on Union Turnpike, Jamaica, NY!

Is there a termination clause in Lavin's contract if he is declared certifiable? 
I for one am ready to call the mobile crisis unit and send them to the basketball offices at St. John's U on Union Turnpike, Jamaica, NY!

Send him to Creedmore until he is able to promise he won't start walk ons in big games anymore

Quote from: Celtics11 on January 05, 2014, 02:56:17 AM

Is there a termination clause in Lavin's contract if he is declared certifiable? 
I for one am ready to call the mobile crisis unit and send them to the basketball offices at St. John's U on Union Turnpike, Jamaica, NY!

Send him to Creedmore until he is able to promise he won't start walk ons in big games anymore

He is probably already an outpatient there, what we need is to have him converted to an inpatient so we can name Whitesell as an interim head coach!