The missing ingredient.....

Gentlemen, the missing ingredient is time.  In 2010-2011, Dunlap drew up one of the craziest defenses in the country at Lavin's request.  They all but threw away the first half of the season hoping they would be better off come February.  They were 11-8 at the end of January, with 25+ point losses to Louisville any Georgetown (sound familiar?) and losses to St. Mary's, St Bonaventure, and Fordham.  They got it.  That team was offensively challenged--even more so than this group-but they learned to get easy buckets from defense and quick secondary transition.

This team is way younger.  Our best player is a raw freshman, we have two sophs out of our top six players and our starting center is playing his first year of D-1 basketball while adjusting to  the speed of live Big East ball.  Whitesell might not be Dunlap or he might even end up being better, but the dude was just hired 5-6 months ago.  Some posters were questioning his impact after the exhibition games! 

It makes sense that it is taking this younger group some time, but I think they will be better than that 2010-2011 team.

That team already had wins over West Va, Gtown and ND when they were 11-8. Also, this team doesn't play a crazy defense like that team did. That team pressed the whole game while this team sits back in that 1-2-2 zone or man and doesn't really disrupt the other team's offense in any way.

Another difference between that season and this one is that there were plenty of opportunities for notable wins than there are this season. There's only three teams in this conference that are practically guaranteed to be a tourney team at this point and we already lost to one of them. That means we have 5 chances before the BE tourney to pick up quality wins and we will not go 5-0 in those games

Quote from: Marillac on January 10, 2014, 10:08:07 PM

Gentlemen, the missing ingredient is time.  In 2010-2011, Dunlap drew up one of the craziest defenses in the country at Lavin's request.  They all but threw away the first half of the season hoping they would be better off come February.  They were 11-8 at the end of January, with 25+ point losses to Louisville any Georgetown (sound familiar?) and losses to St. Mary's, St Bonaventure, and Fordham.  They got it.  That team was offensively challenged--even more so than this group-but they learned to get easy buckets from defense and quick secondary transition.

This team is way younger.  Our best player is a raw freshman, we have two sophs out of our top six players and our starting center is playing his first year of D-1 basketball while adjusting to  the speed of live Big East ball.  Whitesell might not be Dunlap or he might even end up being better, but the dude was just hired 5-6 months ago.  Some posters were questioning his impact after the exhibition games! 

It makes sense that it is taking this younger group some time, but I think they will be better than that 2010-2011 team.

That team already had wins over West Va, Gtown and ND when they were 11-8. Also, this team doesn't play a crazy defense like that team did. That team pressed the whole game while this team sits back in that 1-2-2 zone or man and doesn't really disrupt the other team's offense in any way.

Another difference between that season and this one is that there were plenty of opportunities for notable wins than there are this season. There's only three teams in this conference that are practically guaranteed to be a tourney team at this point and we already lost to one of them. That means we have 5 chances before the BE tourney to pick up quality wins and we will not go 5-0 in those games

After tomorrow, this team will have played 3 of the top 6 teams in RPI.  The SOS is solid.  Also, the league will likely have four teams make the tourney.  When you count the BET there are plenty of opportunities. 

Quote from: goredmen on January 10, 2014, 10:57:01 PM

Quote from: Marillac on January 10, 2014, 10:08:07 PM

Gentlemen, the missing ingredient is time.  In 2010-2011, Dunlap drew up one of the craziest defenses in the country at Lavin's request.  They all but threw away the first half of the season hoping they would be better off come February.  They were 11-8 at the end of January, with 25+ point losses to Louisville any Georgetown (sound familiar?) and losses to St. Mary's, St Bonaventure, and Fordham.  They got it.  That team was offensively challenged--even more so than this group-but they learned to get easy buckets from defense and quick secondary transition.

This team is way younger.  Our best player is a raw freshman, we have two sophs out of our top six players and our starting center is playing his first year of D-1 basketball while adjusting to  the speed of live Big East ball.  Whitesell might not be Dunlap or he might even end up being better, but the dude was just hired 5-6 months ago.  Some posters were questioning his impact after the exhibition games! 

It makes sense that it is taking this younger group some time, but I think they will be better than that 2010-2011 team.

That team already had wins over West Va, Gtown and ND when they were 11-8. Also, this team doesn't play a crazy defense like that team did. That team pressed the whole game while this team sits back in that 1-2-2 zone or man and doesn't really disrupt the other team's offense in any way.

Another difference between that season and this one is that there were plenty of opportunities for notable wins than there are this season. There's only three teams in this conference that are practically guaranteed to be a tourney team at this point and we already lost to one of them. That means we have 5 chances before the BE tourney to pick up quality wins and we will not go 5-0 in those games

After tomorrow, this team will have played 3 of the top 6 teams in RPI.  The SOS is solid.  Also, the league will likely have four teams make the tourney.  When you count the BET there are plenty of opportunities. 

What good is playing 3 of the top 6 teams if you don't win any of those games? Not counting tomorrow as a loss just yet but if it turns into one that leaves us 4 chances in the regular season to pick up quality wins. If there is a 4th team that makes the tourney they will likely be a bubble team and wouldn't necessarily count as a quality win.

As for the BET we'd realistically only play 2 of the top teams at absolute most and if we win both of those we wouldn't have to worry about an at-large bid

Exactly.  It is nice to have a strong RPI and SOS, but if you don't have any signature wins on the season it isn't going to matter to the selection committee.  Sure, St. John's can beat up on the DePaul's and Seton Hall's and end up with a good record, but it won't matter.  This team needs to prove it can beat better competition or it'll be playing in the NIT/CBI come March.

Any win against a NCAA team is going to count as quality win - bubble or no bubble.  No one at this point last season had the Gulf Coast win on a list of impressive wins.  It is too early in the season.  They have plenty of season left to turn it around.  I'm not betting on it.  I just don't agree with the doomsday scenario.  If these guys put it together they will make the tourney.

Not a knock on Harrison but despite all that top 20 talent we do not have a difference maker on offense that can consistently score. Harrison is best suited to be Robin. Harkless would have been the guy by now but that is what we are missing.

Not a knock on Harrison but despite all that top 20 talent we do not have a difference maker on offense that can consistently score. Harrison is best suited to be Robin. Harkless would have been the guy by now but that is what we are missing.

Duke @ Duke when they were freshmen!

Hemlock.

A shooter. DLO and Sheed are scorers, but no one is a shooter.

Not a knock on Harrison but despite all that top 20 talent we do not have a difference maker on offense that can consistently score. Harrison is best suited to be Robin. Harkless would have been the guy by now but that is what we are missing.

We don't have any top 20 talent.  We have that next tier of recruit that is either very skilled and lacking athletic ability (Harrison) or extremely athletic with limited skill (everyone else).  Jordan is the closest we have to a blue chip.

Quote from: we are sju on January 11, 2014, 04:33:39 PM

Not a knock on Harrison but despite all that top 20 talent we do not have a difference maker on offense that can consistently score. Harrison is best suited to be Robin. Harkless would have been the guy by now but that is what we are missing.

We don't have any top 20 talent.  We have that next tier of recruit that is either very skilled and lacking athletic ability (Harrison) or extremely athletic with limited skill (everyone else).  Jordan is the closest we have to a blue chip.

You're right, we don't. 
What top 20 recruit does Villanova have?    Or Georgetown?     Did I miss the blue-chip prospects on Xavier or Wisconsin?   Some of those squads have a borderline top20 guy like Josh Smith or Dekker.. but that's right where Jordan was placed by most evaluators.

These teams have talent comparable to us, the biggest difference is the coaching staffs.   

So the coaching staff played no role in Lavs first year? Oh right Dunlop was the key part, everything he touches turns to gold.... C'mon our guys have 0 basketball IQ!!!!! we have a bunch of athletes thats about it. Maybe they put a run together and make the tourney if not I'm still willing to give coach the chance to turn it around.

So the coaching staff played no role in Lavs first year? Oh right Dunlop was the key part, everything he touches turns to gold.... C'mon our guys have 0 basketball IQ!!!!! we have a bunch of athletes thats about it. Maybe they put a run together and make the tourney if not I'm still willing to give coach the chance to turn it around.

IQ has to be somewhat of a reflection on the coach. These are experienced players being allowed to make the same mistakes over and over again.

Basketball IQ can be very overrated sometimes.   The object of the game is to score and stop the other team.   If you're doing that - absent a JR Smith moment where you forget about the clock - then you're probably playing with some bball IQ.   
I know there exist elite players who really understand where everyone should be on the court, and have great court vision as well, but that's an exception.  Most players just have general bball IQ, and our players fall into that category.   

Basketball IQ can be very overrated sometimes.   The object of the game is to score and stop the other team.   If you're doing that - absent a JR Smith moment where you forget about the clock - then you're probably playing with some bball IQ.   
I know there exist elite players who really understand where everyone should be on the court, and have great court vision as well, but that's an exception.  Most players just have general bball IQ, and our players fall into that category.   

I disagree Desco, I think IQ is right up there with the most important aspects of the game. You can tell a smart team when you see one. They exploit weaknesses, the avoid matchup problems, they understand time, score, and situation. Out team is littered with players who consistently get beat by the same things over and over again. We lack a general understanding of many aspects of the game.

this team is no longer young.  due to lack of depth in prior years many have logged a lot of minutes.  they are junior dominated.  dunlop is a great coach and is sorely missed on the bench.  he is the primary reason for the 10-11 success.  Lavin is a pr guy and a recruiter with a great smile,not a bench coach.  look at his ucla exprience and check the internet for reactions to his time there.  he had great talent and mediocre results in arguably the greatest program in history.   meaniingful ball movement, off-ball screens, patience are all lacking and these are areas where coaching input is critical. 

if you are spotty on offense - have to play defense  - other than pointer and obepka's blocks  - and if you want t to count balamou there is not another good defensive player on the team. The team defense is awful. Grapping, clutching, out of place - I can go on and on. This team is going nowhere unless the defense improves. Really hard team to watch.

if you are spotty on offense - have to play defense  - other than pointer and obepka's blocks  - and if you want t to count balamou there is not another good defensive player on the team. The team defense is awful. Grapping, clutching, out of place - I can go on and on. This team is going nowhere unless the defense improves. Really hard team to watch.

I don't think this is really true. Wasn't able to watch yesterday, and the past 2 games have been rough, but Sheed is a pretty good defender, and Harrison's defense is pretty under rated IMO.

if you are spotty on offense - have to play defense  - other than pointer and obepka's blocks  - and if you want t to count balamou there is not another good defensive player on the team. The team defense is awful. Grapping, clutching, out of place - I can go on and on. This team is going nowhere unless the defense improves. Really hard team to watch.

They hold Villanova to 35% FG and you think the problem is the defense? Have to disagree.

Quote from: sjm2164 on January 12, 2014, 03:15:34 PM

if you are spotty on offense - have to play defense  - other than pointer and obepka's blocks  - and if you want t to count balamou there is not another good defensive player on the team. The team defense is awful. Grapping, clutching, out of place - I can go on and on. This team is going nowhere unless the defense improves. Really hard team to watch.

They hold Villanova to 35% FG and you think the problem is the defense? Have to disagree.

PLEASE,  defense is the only thing that is relatively  consistent.  If they make the effort it has been great