Are You Ready to Move On?

Quote from: Moose on January 15, 2014, 02:23:03 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 15, 2014, 02:19:00 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on January 15, 2014, 02:03:28 PM

Steve Lavin is the only hope St. John's has left of remaining a high major program. To me, this board is falling into the classic "Don't know whatcha got till it's gone" scenario. We fire Lavin, we immediately become a mid-major. Now, it's true we play like one now, but we recruit like a top 25 program with Lavin.  We lose Lavin, not only will we play like a mid-major, we will recruit like one and maybe make the tournament once a decade. Do you really long for the days of fighting over 2 star recruits with mid-majors?

Changing coaches and rebuilding every 5 years is not the answer. I still think Lavin can be very successful here. You all are fooling yourselves if you think he'll be fired, not a chance. The most likely way he's not the coach next year is if he leaves on his own.

This season has been very disappointing thus far. No way around that. But, let's see how the rest plays out. Still a chance we can right the ship and turn in a respectable conference record.

I think the majority of the posters don't want Lavin fired or to leave. I don't. He deserves criticism though and must do a better job. If we have a similar year next season then I would probably move over to the Lavin must go camp though.

I disagree with that.  I think the majority of posters do want him gone at this stage.

Lavin can't coach but is a good recruiter that brings a level of respectability. With that type of person there is at least hope every season. I would not bet on it, but if you told me the team makes the sweet 16 next season I would not be shocked or say it was inconceivable. I am afraid the wrong coach replacing Lavin could bring us back to the dark days of Norm where there was no hope.
Bottom line is outside of a hire I do not expect I would want Lavin back for next year, terrible coaching and all.

Does my previous quote get backhanded compliment of the month award?

Quote from: redstorm212 on January 15, 2014, 02:03:28 PM

Steve Lavin is the only hope St. John's has left of remaining a high major program. To me, this board is falling into the classic "Don't know whatcha got till it's gone" scenario. We fire Lavin, we immediately become a mid-major. Now, it's true we play like one now, but we recruit like a top 25 program with Lavin.  We lose Lavin, not only will we play like a mid-major, we will recruit like one and maybe make the tournament once a decade. Do you really long for the days of fighting over 2 star recruits with mid-majors?

Changing coaches and rebuilding every 5 years is not the answer. I still think Lavin can be very successful here. You all are fooling yourselves if you think he'll be fired, not a chance. The most likely way he's not the coach next year is if he leaves on his own.

This season has been very disappointing thus far. No way around that. But, let's see how the rest plays out. Still a chance we can right the ship and turn in a respectable conference record.

Serious question, I'm not trying to instigate, but why do you think that Steve Lavin is the only person who could successfully recruit here?
Is he that unique?   
I agree with what you said, that its worth reminding people that you may not know what you have till it's gone, but at the same time I would remind you not to be afraid of the unknown.
Who was Calhoun before he went to UCONN?   Nick Saban was at Toledo when Michigan State made him their head coach.   
Jay Wright?  Mark Few?   Tom Crean?   etc.   These guys weren't "big names" when they got hired, and most of them didn't walk into plush jobs.    But if you looked under the surface they had what it takes to be successful.   

Rick Pitino, Calipari, Billy Donovan etc aren't walking in the door, but you don't know who the next generation of those guys is.    Who's to say it's not Steve Maisello or Orlando Antigua?   You can't make a superficial decision, you've got to see what these guys are made of.   There are others who can recruit here.   

I honestly believe that nobody outside of a big name coach could recruit close to the level Lavin has here, correct. If you told me the day Lavin was hired he would get this many highly rated recruits I would have called you insane.

And I agree, there are unknown coaches, but it's a huge risk. When you hire an unknown coach, there's a much higher chance you hire another Norm Roberts than a Jim Calhoun.

Quote from: redstorm212 on January 15, 2014, 02:03:28 PM

Steve Lavin is the only hope St. John's has left of remaining a high major program. To me, this board is falling into the classic "Don't know whatcha got till it's gone" scenario. We fire Lavin, we immediately become a mid-major. Now, it's true we play like one now, but we recruit like a top 25 program with Lavin.  We lose Lavin, not only will we play like a mid-major, we will recruit like one and maybe make the tournament once a decade. Do you really long for the days of fighting over 2 star recruits with mid-majors?

Changing coaches and rebuilding every 5 years is not the answer. I still think Lavin can be very successful here. You all are fooling yourselves if you think he'll be fired, not a chance. The most likely way he's not the coach next year is if he leaves on his own.

This season has been very disappointing thus far. No way around that. But, let's see how the rest plays out. Still a chance we can right the ship and turn in a respectable conference record.

I think the majority of the posters don't want Lavin fired or to leave. I don't. He deserves criticism though and must do a better job. If we have a similar year next season then I would probably move over to the Lavin must go camp though.

Well the poll at the top of this thread says otherwise.

Quote from: desco80 on January 15, 2014, 02:31:48 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on January 15, 2014, 02:03:28 PM

Steve Lavin is the only hope St. John's has left of remaining a high major program. To me, this board is falling into the classic "Don't know whatcha got till it's gone" scenario. We fire Lavin, we immediately become a mid-major. Now, it's true we play like one now, but we recruit like a top 25 program with Lavin.  We lose Lavin, not only will we play like a mid-major, we will recruit like one and maybe make the tournament once a decade. Do you really long for the days of fighting over 2 star recruits with mid-majors?

Changing coaches and rebuilding every 5 years is not the answer. I still think Lavin can be very successful here. You all are fooling yourselves if you think he'll be fired, not a chance. The most likely way he's not the coach next year is if he leaves on his own.

This season has been very disappointing thus far. No way around that. But, let's see how the rest plays out. Still a chance we can right the ship and turn in a respectable conference record.

Serious question, I'm not trying to instigate, but why do you think that Steve Lavin is the only person who could successfully recruit here?
Is he that unique?   
I agree with what you said, that its worth reminding people that you may not know what you have till it's gone, but at the same time I would remind you not to be afraid of the unknown.
Who was Calhoun before he went to UCONN?   Nick Saban was at Toledo when Michigan State made him their head coach.   
Jay Wright?  Mark Few?   Tom Crean?   etc.   These guys weren't "big names" when they got hired, and most of them didn't walk into plush jobs.    But if you looked under the surface they had what it takes to be successful.   

Rick Pitino, Calipari, Billy Donovan etc aren't walking in the door, but you don't know who the next generation of those guys is.    Who's to say it's not Steve Maisello or Orlando Antigua?   You can't make a superficial decision, you've got to see what these guys are made of.   There are others who can recruit here.   

I honestly believe that nobody outside of a big name coach could recruit close to the level Lavin has here, correct. If you told me the day Lavin was hired he would get this many highly rated recruits I would have called you insane.

And I agree, there are unknown coaches, but it's a huge risk. When you hire an unknown coach, there's a much higher chance you hire another Norm Roberts than a Jim Calhoun.

I agree, I think all of us were surprised how well Lavin was able to recruit.   
But I think there is a wider ranger of options than Lavin or returning to Norm-esque recruiting.    Mahoney and Fraschilla were both able to recruit pretty well, and obviously so has Lavin.  So in actuality that's 3 of the last 5 coaches.   

Quote from: redstorm212 on January 15, 2014, 02:42:28 PM

Quote from: desco80 on January 15, 2014, 02:31:48 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on January 15, 2014, 02:03:28 PM

Steve Lavin is the only hope St. John's has left of remaining a high major program. To me, this board is falling into the classic "Don't know whatcha got till it's gone" scenario. We fire Lavin, we immediately become a mid-major. Now, it's true we play like one now, but we recruit like a top 25 program with Lavin.  We lose Lavin, not only will we play like a mid-major, we will recruit like one and maybe make the tournament once a decade. Do you really long for the days of fighting over 2 star recruits with mid-majors?

Changing coaches and rebuilding every 5 years is not the answer. I still think Lavin can be very successful here. You all are fooling yourselves if you think he'll be fired, not a chance. The most likely way he's not the coach next year is if he leaves on his own.

This season has been very disappointing thus far. No way around that. But, let's see how the rest plays out. Still a chance we can right the ship and turn in a respectable conference record.

Serious question, I'm not trying to instigate, but why do you think that Steve Lavin is the only person who could successfully recruit here?
Is he that unique?   
I agree with what you said, that its worth reminding people that you may not know what you have till it's gone, but at the same time I would remind you not to be afraid of the unknown.
Who was Calhoun before he went to UCONN?   Nick Saban was at Toledo when Michigan State made him their head coach.   
Jay Wright?  Mark Few?   Tom Crean?   etc.   These guys weren't "big names" when they got hired, and most of them didn't walk into plush jobs.    But if you looked under the surface they had what it takes to be successful.   

Rick Pitino, Calipari, Billy Donovan etc aren't walking in the door, but you don't know who the next generation of those guys is.    Who's to say it's not Steve Maisello or Orlando Antigua?   You can't make a superficial decision, you've got to see what these guys are made of.   There are others who can recruit here.   

I honestly believe that nobody outside of a big name coach could recruit close to the level Lavin has here, correct. If you told me the day Lavin was hired he would get this many highly rated recruits I would have called you insane.

And I agree, there are unknown coaches, but it's a huge risk. When you hire an unknown coach, there's a much higher chance you hire another Norm Roberts than a Jim Calhoun.

I agree, I think all of us were surprised how well Lavin was able to recruit.   
But I think there is a wider ranger of options than Lavin or returning to Norm-esque recruiting.    Mahoney and Fraschilla were both able to recruit pretty well, and obviously so has Lavin.  So in actuality that's 3 of the last 5 coaches.   

St. John's was still considered a high major program and a desirable school for recruits back in the Mahoney, Frashilla days. Still living off the success of Lou. A lot has changed.

Quote from: we are sju on January 15, 2014, 02:19:00 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on January 15, 2014, 02:03:28 PM

Steve Lavin is the only hope St. John's has left of remaining a high major program. To me, this board is falling into the classic "Don't know whatcha got till it's gone" scenario. We fire Lavin, we immediately become a mid-major. Now, it's true we play like one now, but we recruit like a top 25 program with Lavin.  We lose Lavin, not only will we play like a mid-major, we will recruit like one and maybe make the tournament once a decade. Do you really long for the days of fighting over 2 star recruits with mid-majors?

Changing coaches and rebuilding every 5 years is not the answer. I still think Lavin can be very successful here. You all are fooling yourselves if you think he'll be fired, not a chance. The most likely way he's not the coach next year is if he leaves on his own.

This season has been very disappointing thus far. No way around that. But, let's see how the rest plays out. Still a chance we can right the ship and turn in a respectable conference record.

I think the majority of the posters don't want Lavin fired or to leave. I don't. He deserves criticism though and must do a better job. If we have a similar year next season then I would probably move over to the Lavin must go camp though.

Well the poll at the top of this thread says otherwise.

Anger form 0-4 start. Even if we go like 14-16 or something, I think majority at end of season would want Lavin back for 1 more year.
Funny that I criticized the almighty for his coaching in the past and I am one of the people still expecting him to get at least one more year. I picture a bunch of the former apostles of Lavin locked in the rooms listening to REM' s "Losing my Religion" over and over again

Quote from: redstorm212 on January 15, 2014, 02:46:40 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 15, 2014, 02:19:00 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on January 15, 2014, 02:03:28 PM

Steve Lavin is the only hope St. John's has left of remaining a high major program. To me, this board is falling into the classic "Don't know whatcha got till it's gone" scenario. We fire Lavin, we immediately become a mid-major. Now, it's true we play like one now, but we recruit like a top 25 program with Lavin.  We lose Lavin, not only will we play like a mid-major, we will recruit like one and maybe make the tournament once a decade. Do you really long for the days of fighting over 2 star recruits with mid-majors?

Changing coaches and rebuilding every 5 years is not the answer. I still think Lavin can be very successful here. You all are fooling yourselves if you think he'll be fired, not a chance. The most likely way he's not the coach next year is if he leaves on his own.

This season has been very disappointing thus far. No way around that. But, let's see how the rest plays out. Still a chance we can right the ship and turn in a respectable conference record.

I think the majority of the posters don't want Lavin fired or to leave. I don't. He deserves criticism though and must do a better job. If we have a similar year next season then I would probably move over to the Lavin must go camp though.

Well the poll at the top of this thread says otherwise.

Anger form 0-4 start. Even if we go like 14-16 or something, I think majority at end of season would want Lavin back for 1 more year.
Funny that I criticized the almighty for his coaching in the past and I am one of the people still expecting him to get at least one more year. I picture a bunch of the former apostles of Lavin locked in the rooms listening to REM' s "Losing my Religion" over and over again

You have a very vivid imagination

I think we should wait until the year ends and reevaluate. If however ,I was an administrator I would start thinking of other names and put them in the back of my mind.

I would tell Whitesell it just hasn't worked out and open the wallet
a little more and pursue Dunlap to come back as the head assistant coach.  It would be cheaper
than getting rid of Lavin and we know that's what's missing.  Most likely unrealistic but I
would put a feeler out if I were Monasch.

If Lavin needs Dunlap to win then we should make Dunlap the head coach and let him go hire a recruiting asst.

 I love how the STJ basketball twitter is now trolling fans by putting out every meaningless stat.., spin time.

I love how the STJ basketball twitter is now trolling fans by putting out every meaningless stat.., spin time.

Just saw this. Unbelievable.

I love how the STJ basketball twitter is now trolling fans by putting out every meaningless stat.., spin time.

Someone just took them to task I noticed.

Only thing worse than the coaching job Lavin is doing is the low level of expectation from some of our fans. Geez, why bother? 

Quote from: erickthered on January 14, 2014, 10:19:32 PM

Fran was trying to parlay SJU into the Michigan job, thats a fact and if Hurley is successful here guess what? he's off to a bigger program. Be careful what you wish for. And trust me i loved Fran, i was hoping he would be a guy that would be here for years.

You sure?  Fran's last year at SJU was Ellerbe's first at UM. 
I thought it was Arizona State.

believe it was Az State

Steve Lavin is the only hope St. John's has left of remaining a high major program. To me, this board is falling into the classic "Don't know whatcha got till it's gone" scenario. We fire Lavin, we immediately become a mid-major. Now, it's true we play like one now, but we recruit like a top 25 program with Lavin.  We lose Lavin, not only will we play like a mid-major, we will recruit like one and maybe make the tournament once a decade. Do you really long for the days of fighting over 2 star recruits with mid-majors?

Changing coaches and rebuilding every 5 years is not the answer. I still think Lavin can be very successful here. You all are fooling yourselves if you think he'll be fired, not a chance. The most likely way he's not the coach next year is if he leaves on his own.

This season has been very disappointing thus far. No way around that. But, let's see how the rest plays out. Still a chance we can right the ship and turn in a respectable conference record.

+1000. 

I really wanted Norm to succeed and I held on to hope until the bitter end.  Of course, people with more prescience than I have could see that he was doomed to failure much earlier on.  I am going to support Coach Lavin until the bitter end.  I truly hope that the product on the floor will catch up to the rankings of our recruits.  If Lavin were to get fired, the is none that would want to come here to coach.  We would be hiring an assistant or an unknown head coach from a low level school, hoping to strike gold.  Lavin is pretty much our only best (if not only) chance at returning to a high level program.

Quote from: redstorm212 on January 15, 2014, 02:03:28 PM

Steve Lavin is the only hope St. John's has left of remaining a high major program. To me, this board is falling into the classic "Don't know whatcha got till it's gone" scenario. We fire Lavin, we immediately become a mid-major. Now, it's true we play like one now, but we recruit like a top 25 program with Lavin.  We lose Lavin, not only will we play like a mid-major, we will recruit like one and maybe make the tournament once a decade. Do you really long for the days of fighting over 2 star recruits with mid-majors?

Changing coaches and rebuilding every 5 years is not the answer. I still think Lavin can be very successful here. You all are fooling yourselves if you think he'll be fired, not a chance. The most likely way he's not the coach next year is if he leaves on his own.

This season has been very disappointing thus far. No way around that. But, let's see how the rest plays out. Still a chance we can right the ship and turn in a respectable conference record.

+1000. 

I really wanted Norm to succeed and I held on to hope until the bitter end.  Of course, people with more prescience than I have could see that he was doomed to failure much earlier on.  I am going to support Coach Lavin until the bitter end.  I truly hope that the product on the floor will catch up to the rankings of our recruits.  If Lavin were to get fired, the is none that would want to come here to coach.  We would be hiring an assistant or an unknown head coach from a low level school, hoping to strike gold.  Lavin is pretty much our only best (if not only) chance at returning to a high level program.

He is not getting fired. Whether his ego allows him to hang in here, if team struggles, is a fair question. After season, he may opt to move on in the face of a major reconstruction job down the road when current juniors, perhaps someone else move on. We'll see.

He is not getting fired. Whether his ego allows him to hang in here, if team struggles, is a fair question. After season, he may opt to move on in the face of a major reconstruction job down the road when current juniors, perhaps someone else move on. We'll see.

There's no percentage in him leaving after this year. He'd be going out a loser proving all those UCLA fans right. We make the NIT and he jibber jabbers about progress and 5 year plans or youth or indiscipline or messages and lessons and privilege or Wooden and Newell or his prostate or facial hair or jazz bands or his father or rebuilding efforts and there'll be enough suckers around to swallow it. Then next year he'll have another 10 seniors who'll win despite his buffoonery and he can walk away triumphant and on his own terms. Music dwells. Curtain falls. Exeunt.

Only thing worse than the coaching job Lavin is doing is the low level of expectation from some of our fans. Geez, why bother? 

+1,000,000

Quote from: paultzman on January 16, 2014, 01:35:10 PM

He is not getting fired. Whether his ego allows him to hang in here, if team struggles, is a fair question. After season, he may opt to move on in the face of a major reconstruction job down the road when current juniors, perhaps someone else move on. We'll see.

There's no percentage in him leaving after this year. He'd be going out a loser proving all those UCLA fans right. We make the NIT and he jibber jabbers about progress and 5 year plans or youth or indiscipline or messages and lessons and privilege or Wooden and Newell or his prostate or facial hair or jazz bands or his father or rebuilding efforts and there'll be enough suckers around to swallow it. Then next year he'll have another 10 seniors who'll win despite his buffoonery and he can walk away triumphant and on his own terms. Music dwells. Curtain falls. Exeunt.

Guess that makes more sense.

Get rid of him and bring in Rick Pitino's daughter