Tale of the Tape Lavin vs Norm

After grueling negations I was able to finally secure the rights to the tale of the tape from BEB. All it cost me was a new vagina bong for Fun. It is amazing what you can find on line. This is truly an amazing time. Unless of course you are a ST John's fan.

Well here it is and who would have ever thought this would be appropriate?
Lavin vs Norm. Lets get it on!

ROUND ONE-RECRUITING -
I think Norm recruited kids he met at neighborhood BBQ's. His highest recruit Burrell never had the success we all hoped and his best recruit Hardy didn't excel until he was fired.
Lavin fills his roster with top 100 kids.
EDGE-LAVIN scores a 1st round knockdown 10-8 round

ROUND TWO-OFFENSE-
Norm revolved his offense around GENO
Lavin had success when he put the ball in Hardy's hands and even the circle offense is better than the Geno offense
EDGE-Slight for LAVIN 10-9

ROUND THREE-BEST PLAYER
Norm's best player was either Mase jr or Lamont Hamilton. That is like saying your favorite restaurant is White Castle or Taco Bell.
But wait, Lavin's best player was Hardy who was actually a Norm recruit
Every slight for LAVIN 10-9

ROUND FOUR-ROTATIONS AND STARTING  LINEUP
For good or bad Norm played Mase, Geno, DJ and Hamilton who he perceived as his best players He generally kept to a rotation and a set lineup.
Lavin's rotations and lineups either resemble rush hour at the wall street stop or the people that flee Godzilla in those 1960 Godzilla movies. Just people coming and going in a panicked state
EDGE-Down goes Lavin, Down goes Lavin. Huge round for NORM 10-8

ROUND FIVE-DOG HOUSE-
Norm never warmed to Larry Legend. This was a terrible coaching decision
Lavin benched his best player for chronic eyeballing and seems to be daring Jordan and Obepka to transfer
EDGE-As much as the Larry Legend thing bothered me...Down goes Lavin, Down goes Lavin 10-8
Lavin barely survives the round as MCNPA yells at Fordham to throw in the damn towel

ROUND SIX-EXCUSES
Norm blamed being young and gave every team that bashed us credit. In addition all of his excuse makers blamed Jarvis for everything.
Lavin ripped off the young thing and his apostles used his health and the passing of his father.
EDGE-Best round of the fight as this one resembled Gatti vs Ward's first fight EVEN 10-10 round

ROUND SEVEN-ANNOYING TRAITS
Norm had the gum chewing and the dazed overmatched look on his face
Lavin has the goofy sayings, loud clapping and look at me stunts during timeouts. Oh and the hyperbole. Everyone on his roster is the best he ever coached at something or the other.  He recently said God's Gift was the best player he ever coached that looked like Clay Davis from The Wire
EDGE-Gatti vs Ward 2 Great round EVEN 10-10

ROUND EIGHT-MAN CRUSH
Norm-a certain head band wearing, neck high socks, sloooow point guard 
Lavin-the circle
EDGE-LAVIN had gone away from Greene and Greene is a better player -slightly than Geno 10-9

ROUND NINE-BEST SEASON
Norn snuck into the NIT his last season
Lavin took Norm's players from the NIT and got them one game in the tourney
EDGE-LAVIN for utilizing Hardy 10-9
BTW if Norm would not have recruited Hardy the Lavin era would be a certified disaster!

FINAL ROUND-EXPECTATIONS
Norm was supposed to make sure that female swimmers were not beaten up, scrubs were not paid and no one ran trains on skanks in Pittsburgh
Lavin brought a sense of respectability and hope. That is both a positive and a negative as he really has not lived up to the hype.
EDGE-NORM did live up/ down to expectations. Lavin has been all sizzle and no steak. 10-9 NORM 

DECISION-
Never mind Louie, I have both these guys behind Fran, Jarvis and even Mahoney. But in the spirit of the thread LAVIN wins 95-94

After grueling negotians I was able to finally secure the rights to the tale of the tape from BEB. All it cost me was a new vagina bong for Fun. It is amazing what you can find online. This is truely an amazing time. Unless of course you are a ST John's fan.

Well here it is and who would have ever though this would be appropriate?
Lavin vs Norm. Lets get it on!

ROUND ONE-RECRUITING -
I think Norm recruited kids he met at neighborhood BBQ's. His highest recruit Burrell never had the success we all hoped and his best recruit Hardy didn't excel until he was fired.
Lavin fills his roster with top 100 kids.
EDGE-LAVIN scores a 1st round knockdown 10-8 round

ROUND TWO-OFFENSE-
Norm revolved his offense around GENO
Lavin had success when he put the ball in Hardy's hands and even the circle offense is better than the Geno offense
EDGE-Slight for LAVIN 10-9

ROUND THREE-BEST PLAYER
Norm's best player was either Mase jr or Lamont Hamilton. That is like saying your favorite restaurant is White Castle or Taco Bell.
But wait, Lavin's best player was Hardy who was actually a Norm recruit
EDGE-Very slight for LAVIN 10-9

ROUND FOUR-ROTATIONS AND STARTING  LINEUP
For good or bad Norm played Mase, Geno, DJ and Hamilton who he perceived as his best players He generally kept to a rotation and a set lineup.
Lavin's rotations and lineups either resemble rush hour at the wall street stop or the people that flee Godzilla in those 1960 Godzilla movies. Just people coming and going in a panicked state
EDGE-Down goes Lavin, Down goes Lavin. Huge round for NORM 10-8

ROUND FIVE-DOG HOUSE-
Norm never warmed to Larry Legend. This was a terrible coaching decision
Lavin benched his best player for chronic eyeballing and seems to be daring Jordan and Obepka to transfer
EDGE-As much as the Larry Legend thing bothered me...Down goes Lavin, Down goes Lavin 10-8
Lavin barely survives the round as MCNPA yells at Fordham to throw in the damn towel

ROUND SIX-EXCUSES
Norm blamed being young and gave every team that bashed us credit. In addition all of his excuse makers blamed Jarvis for everything.
Lavin ripped off the young thing and his apostles used his health and the passing of his father.
EDGE-Best round of the fight as this one resembled Gatti vs Ward's first fight EVEN 10-10 round

ROUND SEVEN-ANNOYING TRAITS
Norm had the gum chewing and the dazed overmatched look on his face
Lavin has the goofy sayings, loud clapping and look at me stunts during timeouts. Oh and the hyperbole. Everyone on his roster is the best he ever coached at something or the other.  He recently said God's Gift was the best player he ever coached that looked like Clay Davis from The Wire
EDGE-Gatti vs Ward 2 Great round EVEN 10-10

ROUND EIGHT-MAN CRUSH
Norm-a certain head band wearing, neck high socks, sloooow point guard 
Lavin-the circle
EDGE-LAVIN had gone away from Greene and Greene is a better player -slightly than Geno 10-9

ROUND NINE-BEST SEASON
Norn snuck into the NIT his last season
Lavin took Norm's players from the NIT and got them one game in the tourney
EDGE-LAVIN for utilizing Hardy 10-9
BTW if Norm would not have recruited Hardy the Lavin era would be a certified disaster!

FINAL ROUND-EXPECTATIONS
Norm was supposed to make sure that female swimmers were not beaten up, scrubs were not paid and no one ran trains on skanks in Pittsburgh
Lavin brought a sense of respectability and hope. That is both a positive and a negative as he really has not lived up to the hype.
EDGE-NORM did live up/ down to expectations. Lavin has been all sizzle and no steak. 10-9 NORM 

DECISION-
Never mind Louie, I have both htese guys behind Fran, Jarvis and even Mahoney. But in the spirit of the thread LAVIN wins 95-94

You lost me in Round 4...Lineup and Rotations...Hardy and Brownlee not starting...end of story...10-8 round Lavin...for all of Lavin's challenges...this contest is still a mismatch...Norm represented school well but did nothing well as it relates to the on court stuff

You have a point, but I just meant sticking to a lineup and rotation. Honestly Lavin utuilizing Hardy and Brownlee is the only difference in the two regimes and why Lavin has had more success. IMO anyway

You have a point, but I just meant sticking to a lineup and rotation. Honestly Lavin utuilizing Hardy and Brownlee is the only difference in the two regimes and why Lavin has had more success. IMO anyway

I'd love a tape of 2010-11 LAVIN and 2013-14 LAVIN.   2011 Lavin starts his only freshman no matter how bad or good he is playing.  2014 doesn't play his top 20 in the country freshman no matter how good or bad he is playing.

Whose teams win more tipoffs?

Great stuff Wasju!  I appreciate your recognition of the pentagon's superiority to Eugene.

I feel I would be remiss if I didn't mention that you can't have a 10 - 10 round in standard 10 point Must system scoring.

Great stuff Wasju!  I appreciate your recognition of the pentagon's superiority to Eugene.

I feel I would be remiss if I didn't mention that you can't have a 10 - 10 round in standard 10 point Must system scoring.

I make my own rules as this bout was not sanctioned by any state

Great stuff Wasju!  I appreciate your recognition of the pentagon's superiority to Eugene.

I feel I would be remiss if I didn't mention that you can't have a 10 - 10 round in standard 10 point Must system scoring.

An even round is INDEED scored 10-10! I scored the fight a majority DRAW!

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 17, 2014, 03:20:43 PM

Great stuff Wasju!  I appreciate your recognition of the pentagon's superiority to Eugene.

I feel I would be remiss if I didn't mention that you can't have a 10 - 10 round in standard 10 point Must system scoring.

An even round is INDEED scored 10-10! I scored the fight a majority DRAW!

I stand corrected.  You can score a 10 - 10 round in a 10 point must system.  However,  it is discouraged and very rare.  I don't recall ever seeing it.  You would never see a judge score 2 out of 10 rounds 10 - 10 as Wasju has here.

Norm didn't have to deal with the break up of the big east and for awhile Lavs was recruiting with no idea how it would end up. Throw in dealing with a small thing like prostate cancer, his father passing away, losing the best NYC player to come to SJU in years to the NBA (including Norms illustrious tenure) losing his top asst coach to the NBA (even though it was a brief stint) Look at norms record as a head coach compared to Lavs and thats about all you need to know. Norm was a great guy got us back to respectability and i appreciate that but i'll take Lavs for another year to see if he can turn it around.

Norm didn't have to deal with the break up of the big east and for awhile Lavs was recruiting with no idea how it would end up. Throw in dealing with a small thing like prostate cancer, his father passing away, losing the best NYC player to come to SJU in years to the NBA (including Norms illustrious tenure) losing his top asst coach to the NBA (even though it was a brief stint) Look at norms record as a head coach compared to Lavs and thats about all you need to know. Norm was a great guy got us back to respectability and i appreciate that but i'll take Lavs for another year to see if he can turn it around.

If we're going to accept excuses for Lavin, why didn't we accept them from Norm? Norm had more obstacles to overcome in regards to the program than Lavin. And while I feel for him in regards to his cancer and his father passing, that's life. We all have to deal with losing parents at some point in our life. I'm sure everyone on this board knows someone battling cancer, and probably battling a far more serous cancer than Lavin had to overcome.

Norm failed mainly because he could never convince a top recruiting target to stay home and play for him. His coaching, as bad as it was would have seemed respectable if in year 5 he had Landesberg, Stephenson, DJ and Hardy in his backcourt.

Lavin has the pieces. He has the super talented PG. The shooting guard who can score from all over the court. The Swingman who can defend, rebound and play multiple positions. He has the PF with tremendous athleticism. He has the center with the most blocked shots in school history, and he just got here. It's coaching that it is true weakness. He can't bring his vision together.

Quote from: erickthered on January 18, 2014, 03:29:46 AM

Norm didn't have to deal with the break up of the big east and for awhile Lavs was recruiting with no idea how it would end up. Throw in dealing with a small thing like prostate cancer, his father passing away, losing the best NYC player to come to SJU in years to the NBA (including Norms illustrious tenure) losing his top asst coach to the NBA (even though it was a brief stint) Look at norms record as a head coach compared to Lavs and thats about all you need to know. Norm was a great guy got us back to respectability and i appreciate that but i'll take Lavs for another year to see if he can turn it around.

If we're going to accept excuses for Lavin, why didn't we accept them from Norm? Norm had more obstacles to overcome in regards to the program than Lavin. And while I feel for him in regards to his cancer and his father passing, that's life. We all have to deal with losing parents at some point in our life. I'm sure everyone on this board knows someone battling cancer, and probably battling a far more serous cancer than Lavin had to overcome.

Norm failed mainly because he could never convince a top recruiting target to stay home and play for him. His coaching, as bad as it was would have seemed respectable if in year 5 he had Landesberg, Stephenson, DJ and Hardy in his backcourt.

Lavin has the pieces. He has the super talented PG. The shooting guard who can score from all over the court. The Swingman who can defend, rebound and play multiple positions. He has the PF with tremendous athleticism. He has the center with the most blocked shots in school history, and he just got here. It's coaching that it is true weakness. He can't bring his vision together.

Let's simplify this. Looked like a decent choice  but has turned out to be otherwise.

 Thanks Paultz....  No need to take this thing in the direction it seems to be going..  Settle down fellas.. 

Look Lavin has not done a good job. With that being said I would like him to come back for next season. If next season is a disaster then he needs to go but I think he should get one more season. Surprising how quickly people turned on him compared to Norm. I guess it had to do with expectations?

Lavin = Great Recruiter, Horrible X&O
Norm = Bad Recruiter, Bad X&O

Great > Good
Good > Bad
Bad > Horrible

There for Lavin wins Great & Horrible beats Bad & Bad.

Also, Lavin's top scorer is a total head case.

Lavin = Great Recruiter, Horrible X&O
Norm = Bad Recruiter, Bad X&O

Great > Good
Good > Bad
Bad > Horrible

There for Lavin wins Great & Horrible beats Bad & Bad.

If Norm was a bad recruiter and Lavin is a horrible coach how did horrible coach Lavin win with Norm's bad recruits?

Let me guess, it was genius coach Dunlap.

If Dunlap is such a genius that he could single-handedly overcome Norm's bad recruits and Lavin's horrible coaching, how come he failed so miserably in the NBA?

Dunlap is a great coach. Guys not superman, currently unemployed

Quote from: happyrappy on January 21, 2014, 10:58:51 AM

Lavin = Great Recruiter, Horrible X&O
Norm = Bad Recruiter, Bad X&O

Great > Good
Good > Bad
Bad > Horrible

There for Lavin wins Great & Horrible beats Bad & Bad.

If Norm was a bad recruiter and Lavin is a horrible coach how did horrible coach Lavin win with Norm's bad recruits?

Let me guess, it was genius coach Dunlap.

If Dunlap is such a genius that he could single-handedly overcome Norm's bad recruits and Lavin's horrible coaching, how come he failed so miserably in the NBA?

The NBA is a different game. Dunlap didn't have all-world talent on his NBA team. I think you know that. Calipari failed in the NBA, too. So did Pitino. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Are you trying to suggest that Norm is responsible for Lavin's successful season in 2010/2011? If that's the case, how can you explain such a dramatic improvement from the 09-10 season to 10-11 season?

Look Lavin has not done a good job. With that being said I would like him to come back for next season. If next season is a disaster then he needs to go but I think he should get one more season. Surprising how quickly people turned on him compared to Norm. I guess it had to do with expectations?

Norm had no success. Lavin, has at least had some success. People gave Norm time to rebuild after the Pittsburgh scandal. But by year 3, it was clear that he couldn't land BE talent, develop talent or come up with the slightest shred of strategy before or during a game. Under Norm, we were far from the best team in our own city. We weren't even close to it.

I think even now, as bad as we've started in BE play, and despite what the brains at Newsday think, we are the best team in the NY area. Things could get worse, and although I'm far from content, the Norm comparisons are ridiculous.

How many NBA draft picks did Norman recruit? I forget...